Possibility that Ed Reeds ends up in NE next season

[Piggly Wiggly 960]

Ravens safety Ed Reed has all the respect in the world for Bill Belichick, and that sentiment is well-known to be mutual.

 

So could Reed, who is scheduled to be a free agent this offseason, see himself playing for Belichick some day?

 

"Yeah, oh yeah, man, I could definitely play for coach Belichick," Reed responded. "He is a great coach. I'm sure he can help me to expand my football knowledge even more as a player and as a coach, so if I'm ever able to be around him, just like I was at the Pro Bowl, it's huge. It's the reason why I wear my sweater cut off a little bit. He's the first guy I saw like, 'That's cool.' You know, that's cool. He cuts those sweater sleeves, and he'll be comfortable. So there's a reason why. Most people will tell you around the facility that's how I look. It's just a blessing to even have met, to know coach Belichick."

http://bostonherald.com/sports/patriots_nfl/blitz/2013/01/ed_reed_could_definitely_see_himself_playing_bill_belichick

 

BB would personally pick up Ed Reed from the airport if the Pats signed him. BB probably gushes over Ed Reed more than any other player.

[Dutch 874]

A lot of people naturally think this. Both coach and player have a mutual tremendous respect for each other and it wouldn't make sense for Reed not to sign with an instant contender. Patriots would be a natural fit. Who knows, Ed is probably playing one more year JUST to play with the pats. I can dig this move.

[Favre4Ever+ 4,476]

In before Ngata says he can't wait until Reed is gone and how the Ravens won't miss him.

 

Unfortunately for Ngata. Reed is as good as billed, even at this age. He's a game changer, and with Lewis whoring the camera (not that Reed doesn't yearn for attention at times, too) he is generally underrated as an important cog on that team. He makes the guys around him better. New England would be lucky to have him.

[Dutch 874]

Reed is only the best cover safety to ever play the game. His presence still impacts the game even with his age. He may not be a solid tackler but he's always in the right places in the right time. His football IQ is through the roof which is why he's still the best safety in the league imo.

[Zack_of_Steel+ 3,014]

Uh, Reed kinda' sucks compared to what he used to be. Barely cracks the top 10 in the league at this point (Dmac, Mathias, and Ngata agree, before anyone cries hater).

 

Ed Reed would most definitely be an upgrade for the Patriots and a downgrade for the Ravens, but he's nowhere near the best safety in the league.

Edited January 30, 2013 by Zack_of_Steel

[Favre4Ever+ 4,476]

Saying a 35 year old player isn't as good as he was when he was 26 is one of those, "No Shit", kind of things. Hey guys... Jerry Rice wasn't quite the same player in Seattle as he was San Francisco.

 

lol.

 

And even though he isn't 26, he still has a positive impact on that Ravens team. He can still cover, he doesn't give up the yards, the scores, and makes those around him better. Losing him, even at this stage in his career, will be cause for a bit of a setback for the Ravens D.

 

I am a big fan of Christian Thompson, and think he will be able to step up really nicely, if he is indeed the intended heir... But for a 2nd year player who is coming off IR to get the nod as a starter and bring all the things Ed Reed did? No chance.

 

And I think we can all agree he would be a huge upgrade in New England.

[Zack_of_Steel+ 3,014]

Saying a 35 year old player isn't as good as he was when he was 26 is one of those, "No Shit", kind of things. Hey guys... Jerry Rice wasn't quite the same player in Seattle as he was San Francisco.

 

lol.

 

And even though he isn't 26, he still has a positive impact on that Ravens team. He can still cover, he doesn't give up the yards, the scores, and makes those around him better. Losing him, even at this stage in his career, will be cause for a bit of a setback for the Ravens D.

 

I am a big fan of Christian Thompson, and think he will be able to step up really nicely, if he is indeed the intended heir... But for a 2nd year player who is coming off IR to get the nod as a starter and bring all the things Ed Reed did? No chance.

 

And I think we can all agree he would be a huge upgrade in New England.

 

So you agree with everything I said.

Edited January 30, 2013 by Zack_of_Steel

[BradyFan81 404]

Holy shit if this happened I would literally drive to Gillette stadium and masturbate all over the place.

[Dutch 874]

Definitely not what he use to be but I think he's still the best because of the impact he makes and he's always in the right areas at the right times. You can make an impact not necessarily making a big play like an interception, deflected ball, tackle etc; but being in the right area (good coverage) is just as good. He may not be the all around best in everything, but at the FS position, his cover skills are still unmatched (Jairus Byrd next up) and I'll take that over anyone else. QBs don't want to throw at Ed Reed and it's not like he's falling off giving up big plays. He's still doing his job at a high level at his age. I think it's his impact on the field that puts him above the rest.

Edited January 30, 2013 by dutchff7

[Favre4Ever+ 4,476]

What seems to be the problem?

[BradyFan81 404]

We really just need guys on D that can make plays and Reed could definitely be that guy. I guess Spikes is our biggest play maker right now but that's mostly just stuffing runs in the backfield. We haven't had a guy in the secondary that puts fear into opposing QBs since...Asante Samuel maybe? A long long time. Someone like Reed who's just an absolute ballhawk would be such a huge boost for our D.

[Zack_of_Steel+ 3,014]

Definitely not what he use to be but I think he's still the best because of the impact he makes and he's always in the right areas at the right times. You can make an impact not necessarily making a big play like an interception, deflected ball, tackle etc; but being in the right area (good coverage) is just as good. He may not be the all around best in everything, but at the FS position, his cover skills are still unmatched (Jairus Byrd next up) and I'll take that over anyone else. QBs don't want to throw at Ed Reed and it's not like he's falling off giving up big plays. He's still doing his job at a high level at his age. I think it's his impact on the field that puts him above the rest.

 

For being so unmatched in coverage, he sure had a pretty shitty year, lol. Reed allowed 3 TDs this year, tying for 14th most out of 58 safeties that played at least 50% of their team's snaps. He allowed 329 yards, good for 22nd most out of the aforementioned 58 with a whopping average of 17.3 yards, or 3rd worst in the league. His catch percentage was decent 19/32, 59.4%. His run support has always left much to be desired and he missed 15 tackles this year, 7th most in the league.

 

This was my list in the top 10 thread. I'll put their numbers down for comparison.

 

1. Jairus Byrd - 0 TDs (T1/58), 156 yards (5/58), 9.8 Avg. (T5/58), 16/21 76.2%, 4 MT (T2/58), 1046 Snaps

 

2. Eric Weddle - 2 TDs T28/58), 146 yards (3/58), 7.0 Avg. (1/58), 21/34 61.8%, 9 MT (T15/58), 1062 Snaps

 

3. Reshad Jones - 1 TD (T11/58), 247 (22/58), 13.0 Avg. (32/58), 19/39 48.7%, 14 MT (48/58), 1141 Snaps

 

4. T.J. Ward - 1 TD (11/58), 130 yards (1/58), 10.8 Avg. (13/58), 12/25 48.0%, 4 MT (T2/58), 1008 Snaps

 

5. Harrison Smith - 3 TDs (T49/58), 147 yards (4/58), 9.8 Avg. (T5/58), 15/34 44.1%, 12 MT (T35/58), 1067 Snaps

 

6. These three played less snaps, so they will be X/88

Troy Polamalu - 0 TDs (T1/88), 49 yards (5/88), 9.8 Avg. (T11/88), 5/11 45.5%, 5 MT (T19/88), 402 Snaps

Kenny Phillips - 0 TDs (T1/88), 16 yards (1/88), 8.0 Avg. (8/88), 2/7 28.6%, 0 MT (T1/88), 304 Snaps

Devin McCourty - 0 TDs (T1/88), 60 yards (8/88), 12.0 Avg. (T33/88), 5/14 35.7%, 6 MT (T25/88), 564 Snaps

 

7. Dashon Goldson - 1 TD (T11/58), 199 yards (T12/58), 10.5 Avg. (T10/58), 19/35 54.3%, 12 MT (T35/58), 1049 Snaps

 

8. Ed Reed - 3 TDs (T49/58), 329 yards (37/58), 17.3 Avg. (55/58), 19/32 59.4%, 15 MT (T49/58), 1068 Snaps

 

9. Ryan Clark - 0 TDs (T1/58), 143 yards (2/58), 7.5 Avg. (2/58), 19/29 65.5%, 12 MT (T35/58), 909 Snaps

 

10. Earl Thomas - 1 TD (T11/58), 320 yards (36/58), 11.9 Avg. (21/58), 27/39 69.2%, 17 MT (55/58), 989 Snaps

 

Reed kinda' gets shit on in almost every category, lol.

Edited January 30, 2013 by Zack_of_Steel

[Favre4Ever+ 4,476]

Hm, I don't see what you are getting at. Dutch said he likely isn't the all around best right now... Yet you take that that to mean Dutch thinks he is the best?

 

Interesting interpretation.

[Zack_of_Steel+ 3,014]

Hm, I don't see what you are getting at. Dutch said he likely isn't the all around best right now... Yet you take that that to mean Dutch thinks he is the best?

 

Interesting interpretation.

 

Hmmmm...

 

Reed is only the best cover safety to ever play the game. His presence still impacts the game even with his age. He may not be a solid tackler but he's always in the right places in the right time. His football IQ is through the roof which is why he's still the best safety in the league imo.

 

 

Definitely not what he use to be but I think he's still the best because of the impact he makes and he's always in the right areas at the right times. You can make an impact not necessarily making a big play like an interception, deflected ball, tackle etc; but being in the right area (good coverage) is just as good. He may not be the all around best in everything, but at the FS position, his cover skills are still unmatched (Jairus Byrd next up) and I'll take that over anyone else. QBs don't want to throw at Ed Reed and it's not like he's falling off giving up big plays. He's still doing his job at a high level at his age. I think it's his impact on the field that puts him above the rest.

 

Seems to me he said multiple times that he's the best safety in the league because of his coverage skills that were pretty shitty compared to the top safeties in the league. I added in the missed tackles and run support for further reason why he shouldn't be regarded as the best in the league.

Edited January 30, 2013 by Zack_of_Steel

[Favre4Ever+ 4,476]

What is being brought up over and over is the fact that Ed Reed's ability to cover makes up for other aspects of his game that aren't at the same level.

 

Ed Reed does things in coverage that no PFF Subscription can show you. The way he moves in the backfield... The way he shifts, turns, and attacks the ball. The fact that he is often times not in the place coordinators and QBs are expecting him to be. Not to mention what he does with the ball AFTER he catches it. I'd love to see PFF's grade on his instincts, vision, and INT returns.

 

And the guy has had ONE not superb year at age 34 with a torn labrum and all of a sudden we can't talk about him as among the best or even number 1? One down year that a lot of safeties would love to have with a torn labrum and he has completely fallen from grace -- one of the better safeties to EVER play?

 

Nah. He got pulverized by Oakland (which admittedly is kind of embarrassing), but that's it.

 

Sometimes, the stats do lie. And I think everyone would be better off, if they didn't use PFF like it was the gospel. It's a great reference, but in end... Everyone needs to look at not just the numbers but what is beyond them.

Edited January 30, 2013 by Favre4Ever

[Zack_of_Steel+ 3,014]

What is being brought up over and over is the fact that Ed Reed's ability to cover makes up for other aspects of his game that aren't at the same level.

 

Ed Reed does things in coverage that no PFF Subscription can show you. The way he moves in the backfield... The way he shifts, turns, and attacks the ball. The fact that he is often times not in the place coordinators and QBs are expecting him to be. Not to mention what he does with the ball AFTER he catches it. I'd love to see PFF's grade on his instincts, vision, and INT returns.

 

And the guy has had ONE not superb year at age 34 with a torn labrum and all of a sudden we can't talk about him as among the best or even number 1? One down year that a lot of safeties would love to have with a torn labrum and he has completely fallen from grace -- one of the better safeties to EVER play?

 

Nah. He got pulverized by Oakland (which admittedly is kind of embarrassing), but that's it.

 

Sometimes, the stats do lie. And I think everyone would be better off, if they didn't use PFF like it was the gospel. It's a great reference, but in end... Everyone needs to look at not just the numbers but what is beyond them.

 

It's funny, because a couple years ago you were INSISTING that looking at PFF's coverage numbers were proof that Adrian Wilson sucked while I contended something very similar to what you've just said.

[Favre4Ever+ 4,476]

All that means is that I am progressing my knowledge of the game, while you are regressing.

[Zack_of_Steel+ 3,014]

All that means is that I am progressing my knowledge of the game, while you are regressing.

 

Lol. I've never said to look only at their numbers, something you cannot claim. I merely pointed to something tangible to show that, for all of his amazing coverage, he's not comparing well to other top safeties.

 

Oh, and you've mentioned Casey Heyward's coverage numbers about thirty thousand times this year, so don't act like you've all the sudden become enlightened and moved away from caring about PFF's coverage stats.

Edited January 30, 2013 by Zack_of_Steel

[Omerta+ 1,206]

PFF blows imo. People act like it the end all be all (not saying in this case) and in reality it is just as up to interpretation. If you don'w know a particular teams style of play or their players within that scheme or what is asked of them it is a stretch to think that they come in with any sort of accuracy. There are too many ways to poke holes in their "facts"

 

As to Ed Reed. Fuck him. I never really liked the guy and would be elated to not have his contract on our books and watch the Pats sink money into him. The guy has never been loyal to the Ravens just the paycheck they provided. They can deal with his constant," I am retiring", "I am not retiring" "I am retiring" bullshit they can have his ass.

 

As to his play, he is the best in the league. Not by skill set, or play ability, but because people still fear him like he is 27. If not for that fear QB's would throw at him more often. He is a gambler which in his day was fine because he had the closing speed to make a difference. Now he just guesses and if he is wrong he leaves his guy high and dry.

 

All in all, like I said fuck him. He can leave and I would be happy about it. I am really excited about Christian Thompson anyway. If Reed and Ray leave our oldest player on defense will be suggs at 30 or 31. Our average age will be around 24....so uhhhhh...YES PLEASE!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Zack_of_Steel+ 3,014]

I'm not at all saying that Reed sucks because PFF said so, by the way. I used their coverage stats to help paint a picture, because if I just said, "Uh, Ed Reed isn't the best because he isn't and I said so", that'd go nowhere.

 

I've seen him play quite a bit over the last couple years. If the Steelers aren't on I tend to watch AFC North games to root for a loss. I don't see the same impact, but if I simply made the assertion, how would that have been received? Not well. Using PFF's coverage stats to supplement my argument should not be interpreted as me being a PFF slave like JD was a couple seasons ago.

Edited January 30, 2013 by Zack_of_Steel

[Favre4Ever+ 4,476]

Lol. I've never said to look only at their numbers, something you cannot claim. I merely pointed to something tangible to show that, for all of his amazing coverage, he's not comparing well to other top safeties.

 

That seems to be exactly what you are claiming. You want us to glue our eyes to your list of copy and pasted PFF coverage stats in Ed Reeds age 34 season playing with a torn labrum.

 

You tried discrediting the points Dutch made, all valid btw, with those raw numbers without alluding to the great things he does that can't be graded by PFF. If you were claiming otherwise, you certainly did a good job of pretending like you didn't care about the other stuff, the intangibles... Or the fact that he isn't even healthy.

 

Furthermore, I bring up these intangibles and go fairly in depth with what I see and how Ed Reed approaches and plays the game. Proving that the numbers themselves don't do him justice. And instead of retorting with facts or even your opinion on his intangibles... You bring up a discussion we had, literally, years ago about a different player.

 

I know it is a favorite phrase of yours, but I will steal it for this discussion because of just how fitting it is.

 

You are beating down straw men left and right and abusing what could be a good discussion on one of the leagues all-time greats like a line of coke on Tom Sizemore's coffee table.

Edited January 30, 2013 by Favre4Ever

[Dutch 874]

What is being brought up over and over is the fact that Ed Reed's ability to cover makes up for other aspects of his game that aren't at the same level.

 

Ed Reed does things in coverage that no PFF Subscription can show you. The way he moves in the backfield... The way he shifts, turns, and attacks the ball. The fact that he is often times not in the place coordinators and QBs are expecting him to be. Not to mention what he does with the ball AFTER he catches it. I'd love to see PFF's grade on his instincts, vision, and INT returns.

 

And the guy has had ONE not superb year at age 34 with a torn labrum and all of a sudden we can't talk about him as among the best or even number 1? One down year that a lot of safeties would love to have with a torn labrum and he has completely fallen from grace -- one of the better safeties to EVER play?

 

Nah. He got pulverized by Oakland (which admittedly is kind of embarrassing), but that's it.

 

Sometimes, the stats do lie. And I think everyone would be better off, if they didn't use PFF like it was the gospel. It's a great reference, but in end... Everyone needs to look at not just the numbers but what is beyond them.

 

 

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-network-playbook/0ap2000000133102/Playbook-Ed-Reed-s-effectiveness

[Zack_of_Steel+ 3,014]

That seems to be exactly what you are claiming. You want us to glue our eyes to your list of copy and pasted PFF coverage stats in Ed Reeds age 34 season playing with a torn labrum.

 

You tried discrediting the points Dutch made, all valid btw, with those raw numbers without alluding to the great things he does that can't be graded by PFF. If you were claiming otherwise, you certainly did a good job of pretending like you didn't care about the other stuff, the intangibles... Or the fact that he isn't even healthy.

 

Furthermore, I bring up these intangibles and go fairly in depth with what I see and how Ed Reed approaches and plays the game. Proving that the numbers themselves don't do him justice. And instead of retorting with facts or even your opinion on his intangibles... You bring up a discussion we had, literally, years ago about a different player.

 

I know it is a favorite phrase of yours, but I will steal it for this discussion because of just how fitting it is.

 

You are beating down straw men left and right and abusing what could be a good discussion on one of the leagues all-time greats like a line of coke on Tom Sizemore's coffee table.

 

There's no point in replying to anything following this (but I will), seeing as I've literally spelled out where I stand, yet you are content with telling me otherwise, lmao. One of your favorite tactics is telling people what their argument is, disregarding their statements to the contrary, and arguing a point that they're not making. That's the definition of a straw man. LOL.

 

I've argued against dutch's opinion that Ed Reed is the best safety in the game. That's in no way a misinterpretation of his argument, seeing as I had to bold the instances of him saying just that, which amazingly eluded your gaze. I've not once argued against an incorrect stance or told any of you that you're arguing something that you're not. I think you should look up the definition of the "straw man" term.

 

You, dutch, and Ngata have all mentioned his unquantifiable "impact", which he no doubt had in the past. I, and presumably Mathias, Razor, and Dmac, do not see this in Mr. Reed anymore. There's no way to prove it one way or another, so I moved on to statistics to, again, supplement (I bold because apparently that's what it takes for you to regard it) the fact that I do not agree with the "intangibles" argument.

 

If PFF's stats were the end-all-be-all in my mind, my list would've included Yaremiah Bell, Will Allen, Reggie Nelson, and Dwight Lowery, to name a few. If I only cared about PFF's stats, obviously I'd have ranked Ryan Clark, whose stats dwarfed Reed's, higher than Ed...

 

 

 

Cliff notes, for the reading comprehension impaired (I can't promise this will aid you, but perhaps reading it twice and worded differently might register with you):

-I previously stated that the coverage stats were in addition to my opinion that Reed's impact is overstated at this point in his career and that he's not the best safety in the league.

 

-You ignored my stated argument and simply told me what you decided I was arguing so that it would fit your rebuttal—a straw man.

 

-You claimed I was arguing a straw man, despite the fact that it's abundantly clear that I am arguing against dutch's point that Ed Reed is the best safety in the game, something you initially claimed he never said—he stated it twice—and devoted an entire post to telling me so.

 

-On top of the fact that I've explicitly said that I don't solely work off of PFF's coverage stats, I also did not rank Ryan Clark above Reed and there were no middle-of-the-pack/shitty safeties with great coverage statistics on my list.

[BwareDWare94 723]

Had I seen this whole JD and Zack thing go down, I'd have made some popcorn. Jeesh.

[Favre4Ever+ 4,476]

It hasn't stopped you from continuing to on this blistering off-road path you are on. I sure would enjoy a conversation or debate that actually stays on topic for once.

 

I post those "unquantifiable" characteristics. You reply saying I hated Adrian Wilson like 3 years ago. Wonderful. I post again asking you to address those "unquantifiables" that I brought up... This time you took what, 2 sentences out of 50, to pretend like you've addressed it.

 

"You see it, I don't, you can't prove it"

 

That's all you said. And there is no way that is holding up in what should be a discussion based on substance and reality -- not futile attempts to save face.

 

So, I will ask yet once again.

 

You claim Ed Reed has lost edge or X Factor. Why? Try using REAL examples to back your claim. You've done a fine job speaking for Ngata and Mathias. And while I don't doubt their agreement with your fluff, it's time to actually back everything up.

 

And there are no straw men on this side of things. I think he is still one of the best, if not the best in the league. You don't. That's the discussion. It's not difficult to see that that discussion moves to.. Why do you think the way you do.

 

I realize it's hard for you to formulate and retort in a manner that doesn't require you to login to PFF or copy and paste some stats... But for everyone involved, can you at least try?

 

I will even leave you with this. You give us why Ed Reeds instincts and ability to play the field are gone, and while I will disagree.. I won't argue it. It will end right there.

 

At this point, I will be content with getting an answer compiled of substance, reality, and not wholly state-driven.

Edited January 31, 2013 by Favre4Ever