Accidental Racist

[Favre4Ever+ 4,476]

And yet nobody bitches about Alicia Keys being intentionally racist. You are only racist if you are white apparently.

Oh yes, maybe one my biggest " real world " pet peeves. How different races take "you're racist" to all new extremes. Reverse discrimination is pretty awesome, and nobody really cares about it much. As long as us white folk pay for our sins of enslaving the blacks, the world is just in a better place.

 

LL's lyrics are just comical, though. Something about "Don't judge me for my pants riding low."

 

Well, I'm going to. That's one of those things that just shouldn't be acceptable out in public. This isn't a racial thing, because plenty of white guys do this shit, too. It's obnoxious.

 

If LL had spoken about any real issues, I'd have liked this song more. As a huge Brad Paisley fan, this song is a great idea but that's it. It most certainly isn't a great song. They needed to spend some real time on this as they put it together, which they clearly didn't.

 

You're such a racist, bro. lol

[BwareDWare94 723]

You're such a racist, bro. lol

 

I think you're joking, but if not, how so? It's not racist to say, "don't wear your damn pants around your knees. It's inappropriate." Their pants riding low is NOT some sort of cultural decision. It's just being inappropriate and most black men don't wear them that way, anyway.

 

If LL wanted to speak for the black community, he should have spoken for the excessive majority who are beyond respectable and no different from any other peoples, and not the obnoxious minority. Every race has an obnoxious minority. We caucasions have racist hicks in many parts of the country, but it might just be one in one one hundred that are that way.

Edited April 14, 2013 by BwareDWare94

[Guest Phailadelphia]

Paisley is defending what the flag ACTUALLY means, not what labels outsiders place on it. Too often it is represented as slavery as oppression. The American flag itself probably has more to do with slavery and oppression than the southern cross does. How many people have died under the American banner of freedom as we move to wipe out an entirety of peoples to claim land and resources as our own? LL is rapping about how blacks are commonly perceived as being all alike. But he wants you to know they aren't, and there is more to a lot of them then first meets the eye.

 

Actually read the lyrics, if you haven't, because they are saying pretty much the opposite of the conclusion you have come to.

 

No, Paisley is defending what he thinks the southern cross means, not what it actually means. There are a wealth of historical inaccuracies associated with it. For starters, it was never the official flag of the CSA. Second, the CSA lasted all of 5 years. Why pick THAT particular 5 years of Southern history to represent your beliefs? Third, that flag was never popular or even used until the 1950s...during the Civil Rights Movement. It was a sign of resistance to the movement. Most Southern states didn't adopt the Southern Cross into their state flags until the 1950s. It's literally impossible to know the history of the southern cross and come to the conclusion that it's not associated with racism.

 

Paisley and Southerners THINK they're representing some kind of southern culture and states rights movement with the flag but if you actually look at the history behind it they're not right.

Edited April 14, 2013 by Phailadelphia

[Favre4Ever+ 4,476]

I think you're joking, but if not, how so? It's not racist to say, "don't wear your damn pants around your knees. It's inappropriate." Their pants riding low is NOT some sort of cultural decision. It's just being inappropriate and most black men don't wear them that way, anyway.

 

If LL wanted to speak for the black community, he should have spoken for the excessive majority who are beyond respectable and no different from any other peoples, and not the obnoxious minority. Every race has an obnoxious minority. We caucasions have racist hicks in many parts of the country, but it might just be one in one one hundred that are that way.

 

Definitely joking to an extent. I just find it somewhat humorous that both guys are saying the same thing (albeit it being for two different groups of people) and you get the white mans version of it and praise him but not the black mans. ha.

[Omerta+ 1,206]

No, Paisley is defending what he thinks the southern cross means, not what it actually means.

 

Paisley and Southerners THINK they're representing some kind of southern culture and states rights movement with the flag but if you actually look at the history behind it they're not right.

 

Couple things. Are you sure you know what he thinks ?

 

Second, If that is his interpretation is that really all that bad of a thing to try and represent a group of ideals that represent what you believe your heritage to be. Even if it is misplaced if you look through history people pay homage to all sorts of symbols that can be misconstrued and have some sort of historical significance of pain and suffering according to different cultures.

 

And lastly...this is over a T-shirt. He is not racist he is called into question over wearing a band T-shirt. If this was a Led Zeppelin shirt it would be no big deal, would it ?

Edited April 14, 2013 by Ngata_Chance

[Favre4Ever+ 4,476]

No, Paisley is defending what he thinks the southern cross means, not what it actually means. There are a wealth of historical inaccuracies associated with it. For starters, it was never the official flag of the CSA. Second, the CSA lasted all of 5 years. Why pick THAT particular 5 years of Southern history to represent your beliefs? Third, that flag was never popular or even used until the 1950s...during the Civil Rights Movement. It was a sign of resistance to the movement. Most Southern states didn't adopt the Southern Cross into their state flags until the 1950s. It's literally impossible to know the history of the southern cross and come to the conclusion that it's not associated with racism.

 

Paisley and Southerners THINK they're representing some kind of southern culture and states rights movement with the flag but if you actually look at the history behind it they're not right.

 

And you and many like you are getting offended for you what you think it means. You're no different than anybody else, unfortunately.

 

I don't live in the south, but from what I understand and what I have read here... It means a whole lot more down there than it does to "outsiders" or people who don't live there. For them, it's probably a sign of southern culture, hospitality, and the southern way of life.

 

The southern cross is not a symbol of racism. It never has been, even back in the day. Although that is a much different story that will require a lesson on the civil war. lol.

Edited April 14, 2013 by Favre4Ever

[Guest Phailadelphia]

I'm not offended by anything about the song. I lived the first half of my life in Arkansas and then Oklahoma & Texas. I'm well-immersed in southern culture.

 

I already said I think it's silly, aka ignorant. But let's not pretend it doesn't represent racism, even if people like Paisley aren't aware of it.

Edited April 14, 2013 by Phailadelphia

[Favre4Ever+ 4,476]

I edited my post. Sorry for the lateness.

[Omerta+ 1,206]

I'm not offended by anything about the song. I lived the first half of my life in Arkansas and then Oklahoma & Texas. I'm well-immersed in southern culture.

 

I already said I think it's silly, aka ignorant. But let's not pretend it doesn't represent racism, even if people like Paisley aren't aware of it.

 

The problem I have with it is this. Aren't people the ones who attach meanings to symbols ? So we are to stuck in the past to just take it for what it is ? Why are people so offended by the word confederate ? It is silly.

 

It is because we are as a society would rather choose to be sensitive and most times ignorant than leaving our own legacy for future generations by trying to be progressive and move past the things that are still plaguing us 250 years later. I see all sorts of people talking about wanting to go to Amsterdam and that they love the Netherlands and are the best place to live but forget all about the Dutch Slave trade, it is pathetic and sad that we can forgive a country who is just as guilty, but yet we still like to persecute countrymen of all races who fought to break the chains of slavery. This is truly a sad ass pathetic excuse for society if this is really how stupid most of the population are.

 

I HATE the issue of Slavery. The fact that it was done, the fact that apparently all white people participated, the fact that apparently it is still going on, the fact that only black people have fought for equality, I hate the fact that 90% of America is still trying to keep the black man down. Everything about it, its history, implementation, and role in modern day society is pathetic. Call me racist or whatever you want (not that you or anybody has) but if you still cling to slavery as why you think white people are bad you dont deserve to have freedom imo because you are to stupid to enjoy. And on the inverse if you are the white hick who think that the south will rise again the same goes for you.

Edited April 14, 2013 by Ngata_Chance

[BwareDWare94 723]

Definitely joking to an extent. I just find it somewhat humorous that both guys are saying the same thing (albeit it being for two different groups of people) and you get the white mans version of it and praise him but not the black mans. ha.

 

The only Paisley lyrics I know off the top of my head are, "I'm just a white man living in the Southland."

 

I'm sure I could find plenty of the same things I've seen in LL's lyrics if I saw all of Brad's. At the same time, I don't think Brad sings anything as stupid as the "low riding pants" and "gold chains" lines.

[Guest Phailadelphia]

And you and many like you are getting offended for you what you think it means. You're no different than anybody else, unfortunately.

 

I don't live in the south, but from what I understand and what I have read here... It means a whole lot more down there than it does to "outsiders" or people who don't live there. For them, it's probably a sign of southern culture, hospitality, and the southern way of life.

 

The southern cross is not a symbol of racism. It never has been, even back in the day. Although that is a much different story that will require a lesson on the civil war. lol.

 

It is though. If the southern cross originates from the Confederacy then it can't represent southern hospitality or whatever nonsense people want to assign to it. It didn't exist before the Confederacy, was barely used during it, and wasn't used again after the fall of the Confederacy until the 1950s. All you have to do here to find the racism behind the flag is to just follow its history. It emerged during the Civil War, which is identified with slavery, then emerged again in the 1950s during a fight for the civil rights for blacks. You're going to have a very hard time coming up with excuses to explain why there isn't a strong tie between the southern cross and racism.

 

Furthermore, the Confederacy lasted what, 5 years? Why tie your "southern culture" to those 5 years of the 200+ years the "South" has existed? Where's all this reverence for state flags, who have a much farther reaching history? Why tie your culture to the southern cross at a time when civil rights for blacks are being fought over? Why even identify with the entire region rather than just your state? I've lived in the South all but like 2-3 years of my life and these are some of the nicest people you'll ever meet. I'm not passing judgment on them, but when proudly displaying a southern cross on your house, your car, and your clothing you're going to have to explain very carefully why a flag that in its original, irrelevant existence of only 5 years represents your culture of hospitality and way of life. When faced with the true history of the flag, you're going to have an extremely hard time explaining why you are using a flag that is heavily identified with racism.

 

The problem I have with it is this. Aren't people the ones who attach meanings to symbols ? So we are to stuck in the past to just take it for what it is ? Why are people so offended by the word confederate ? It is silly.

 

 

Sure, people attach meaning to symbols. Does that make every symbol fair game? I don't see anyone running around with swastikas on their shirts saying they represent peace and goodwill. We aren't taught the history of the southern cross as extensively as we're taught the Nazi genocide. Does being ignorant of its history make wearing the southern cross acceptable? That's my primary question in this discussion. I'm not interested in talking about the white man keeping the black guy down or the south will rise again or any of that bullshit. People seem to just take it for truth that the southern cross represents southern culture, hospitality, etc. without actually looking at the context in which the flag was employed. And I think that's fascinating.

 

I mean, think about it like this: What if you lived in New York all your life and had friends who had lived their all their lives and THEY wore the confederate flag? Still think it represents southern culture?

Edited April 15, 2013 by Phailadelphia

[Omerta+ 1,206]

 

Sure, people attach meaning to symbols. Does that make every symbol fair game? I don't see anyone running around with swastikas on their shirts saying they represent peace and goodwill. We aren't taught the history of the southern cross as extensively as we're taught the Nazi genocide. Does being ignorant of its history make wearing the southern cross acceptable? That's my primary question in this discussion. People seem to just take it for truth that the southern cross represents southern culture, hospitality, etc. without actually looking at the context in which the flag was employed. And I think that's fascinating.

 

I mean, think about it like this: What if you lived in New York all your life and had friends who had lived their all their lives and THEY wore the confederate flag? Still think it represents southern culture?

 

 

You dont know many Indian people (Hindu, Buddhist, Jainism) do you? That is exactly what it means to them. Peace, being a better you, to be good are all literal translations from the word swastika in Sanskrit which is where the first evidence fo the swastika is believed to be originated.

 

 

 

(Damn those Indian Nazis)

 

 

And again history says it is our fault from the 1950's on for attaching the meaning of racism to it. And being ignorant of the flags history is what makes people think it is about race. When the confederacy was established people we in a scramble for a flag when someone had the idea two take the two prominent cultures of the south and incorporate them into the flag.

 

British:

 

French:

 

1st Confederate Flag:

 

This one was scrapped because the union had not adopted their Gray colors yet. So the color scheme was confusing to both sides, and caused confusion in battle (reoccuring theme alert) so it had to go and was replaced by:

 

2nd Confederate Flag:

 

This is the earliest creation of the Southern Cross which I am sure England would take offense to it being called that as it is actually their cross. This one was scrapped though because the stars and bars could be covered by the white looking like a flag of truce. Which gave way to:

 

3rd Confederate Flag:

 

This is the 3rd and final confederate Flag. When it was adopted and finall accepted the south surrendered 2 weeks later.

 

So now that you see the evolution tell me where the we adopted this meaning that the confederate Flag looks like this.

 

 

So then what does that one mean ? Oh it means that the flags of the us and the 3rd confederate flag were to similar. The south had its official flag and this was the flag of the North Virginia Army, and it absolutely didly shit to do with slavery. It had everything to do with the national flag of the confederacy looking similar to that of the united states, so they wrote the war department of the confederacy and General Johnston. After much lobbying they agreed they could use a war flag to tell the difference between enemy and ally. It had nothing to do with slavery and everything to do with battlefield strategy and confusion thanks to General Beauregard.

 

It was not until the 1950's that this flag had fuck all to do with racism. So when Paisley says it represents his heritage he is in fact not being racist in the slightest as none of the confederate flags resemble the North Virginia Battle Flag which was never used to represent the confederacy as a whole just a marker in battle to be able to decipher battle lines. So he could be speaking to his heritage of lineage which could be french or english. And the confederate flag has nothing to do with slavery and the secession started as a resistance to political dominance. Slavery did not become an issue until 1861.

 

If you want to be mad at a flag on a shirt that ACTUALLY represents slavery I will give you one.

 

 

Sovererinty of secession flag. This one is for all intents in purpose the representation of slavery in the south. It has 15 stars for all of the slave holding states.

 

Notice how the Confederate Flag only has 12 for each state in the confederacy ? Kind of an odd discrepancy is it not ?

 

So on all accounts all of that is false good sir.

Edited April 15, 2013 by Ngata_Chance

[Omerta+ 1,206]

Any historian worth a shit will tell you that is all true.

 

ROLL CALL: Who was in class ?

 

Still ya phail.

[blotsfan 2,112]

The swastika might have meant peace back in the old days, but now it represents nazism, at least in the western world. Maybe in india its ok, but not here. If I were to wear a swastika and said "its actually a symbol of peace in india," that'd make me an asshole. People who wear the confederate flag know exactly what the intended meaning of it is, and choose to wear it to be confrontational. If you really like lynrd skynrd, wear one of their shirts without the southern cross.

[Omerta+ 1,206]

The swastika might have meant peace back in the old days, but now it represents nazism, at least in the western world. Maybe in india its ok, but not here. If I were to wear a swastika and said "its actually a symbol of peace in india," that'd make me an asshole. People who wear the confederate flag know exactly what the intended meaning of it is, and choose to wear it to be confrontational. If you really like lynrd skynrd, wear one of their shirts without the southern cross.

 

 

Which proved my point of we are the ones who assign meaning to symbols. Of Paisley sees it as a part of his heritage and has nothing to do with slavery who is anybody to say he is an asshole ? Can you read his mind ? Has paisley ever done anything confrontational to the media, fans, or critics ? Then answer is no to both.

 

You have no argument it is all just peculation.

 

Ahhh the"western World" I guess we can tell all the hindu's and Buddhists in this country that they can take their religion and fuck themselves because we say they should because some whiny ass bitch has a problem with it ? Yeah, seems legit.

 

And seriously dude, after all of that you did no research apparently. The INTENDED meaning has didly shit to do with slavery.

 

This goes back to what I said from the beginning. This is just a bunch of over sensitive and uneducated puss rags being oversensitive and trying to find something to bitch about while trying to maintain they are political and progressive. It actually just makes them look like a dumb ass.

Edited April 15, 2013 by Ngata_Chance

[blotsfan 2,112]

I have literally never seen a hindu or buddhist wear a swastika. Maybe they know the connotations of it and can display their religious heritage in a way that doesn't also have negative connotations. Paisley might take it to be part of his heritage, but he knows thats not how other people take it. If he wears it, he's intentionally being antagonistic. His heritage can be represented in numerous ways, so why does he have to wear the one that he knows will be taken to be racist.

[Omerta+ 1,206]

And do you hang out with practicing hindu's and Buddhist's on the daily ? Do you watch their children grow ? Do you live in their house ? If the answer is no to one or all of these it is no surprise. They should not have to change their religion and the meaning of a symbol that has stood for peace for over 5000 years just to appease butt hurt people who have no right to bitch about it. I guess 70 years of bad precedent should erase 5000 years.... What planet are you from ?

 

And who gives a good god damn how others take it? If they dont like it they can close their eyes. Is it his fault the majority of the population is so stupid ? So he should have to bring himself down to their level ? Come one, that is not even close to fair to him.

 

Why does Alicia Keys have to openly support the Black Panthers ? Where is that in the news. Oh wait nobody gives a shit because she is black. God forbid Paisley where a flag that is a hell of a lot closer to the British flag than the confederate flag, because there will be hell to pay.

 

That is the stupid shit about America that is the reason people hate this country.

[blotsfan 2,112]

I mean, I didn't say that Paisley should be banned from wearing the flag. Just that if I see him wearing it, I'll exercise my constitutional right to think he's an asshole.

 

Oh and I've never heard about Alicia keys supporting the black panthers, but if that's true, yes she sucks. Probably worse than Paisley.

[Guest Phailadelphia]

Any historian worth a shit will tell you that is all true.

 

ROLL CALL: Who was in class ?

 

Still ya phail.

 

I think we're kind of saying the same thing here but in 2 different ways - that it was never the official Confederate flag. My point is it's identified with racism from just about everyone and there's where it derives its meaning. Its perceived identity with the Civil War and then it's contemporary resurgence in the 1950s during the Civil Rights Movement.

 

Anyway I think at this point we're kind of arguing semantics. At the root of the issue is it's historical significance (or, in this case, insignificance) and how it's used today.

 

(PS )