What is money anyway...

[RazorStar 4,025]

I've fallen into one of those introspective stare at your navel moments so bear with me a bit here.

 

A question was posed today. It was probably posed yesterday, and the day before, and so on and so forth up until the time of currency's inception. Why do we always want more money. A famous man once said, Mo Money, Mo Problems, and I'm sure people don't live to create problems for themselves (problems for others though, that's a different and longer story). So why do we have this desire to build up stacks of paper that have no worth until they are spent?

 

I thought of this originally from an evolutionary standpoint, where more was often better. We needed to meet the demands of a growing population so we came up with agriculture and increased food production. People needed more sons and daughters to handle the stress agricultural work is, and the population kept growing, creating an unending beast. The idea that growth is ideal is the key thought here. The value of money never increases though. 5 cents 50 years is worth way more than 5 cents today. And as the unending beast grows larger and larger the concept of a number representing your wealth becomes more and more awkward. What retirement money is today will be significantly less when most of this board has to hang it up.

 

It just bothers me, that money determines a person worth, and not the other way around. In the society of human thought, rationale states you are your salary. You have no worth other than the income you make. But in reality, it's your worth to society that dictates the arbitrary value that makes your salary. So it feels like the system just feeds itself. We'll let you have money if you offer your soul to us. That's what it feels like some days. We'll let you have these numbers so you can feel important, and in exchange you'll serve us, accept us and belittle those who do not provide the level of service you do.

 

This ingrained attitude creates the classism problems we have in society today, because the people at the top keep thinking my money only has value if everyone else has less of it than I, so they kick the ladder out from under people and stymie their growth. Then the next class of elite do it, and so on and so forth until the stratification is impossibly severe. I sometimes wonder if we stay on this path what the road ahead will look like. Will there be a societal upheaval? Or will humanity simply decline as everyone accepts their stratification, and never considers the possibility of something better.

 

These kinds of issues just get me depressed because this is not a person problem, that can be solved by rooting out malefactors. It's a societal problem, and society itself is a construct of all men (humankind, whatever) who obey the rule of law and the unwritten social contract. Because the social contract is unwritten, it may be nearly impossible to create a lasting change in a short amount of time. It would take otherworldly devotion to commit yourself to a cause you have no chance of seeing the outcome to. You can make laws, and break laws in a democracy, but how do you change the social contract? How do you find a way to change the current mindset of "your salary is your worth?" and "Money has value." You can always convince a few, but it'd take outright revolution or something equally drastic to make a lasting change on the current social contract.

 

So where am I going with this? The pursuit of money is not good or evil, it's necessary by our current contract to society. We're expected to live in accordance to the laws and in exchange we're granted a higher standing if we follow those laws. We can raise our station even higher if we lower our neighbours. So in the end we get a situation where everyone is trying to climb upwards, while using others as stepping stones, forcing them downwards. And I suppose relatively, you can be higher up than anyone else, but how does society advance, when 98% are stuck at the bottom of the mountain? Shouldn't everyone have a chance to climb the mountain without getting pushed down? How far can society go when all men (humankind) have an opportunity to grow? When do we stop needing an economy? I can only hope that it's soon.

[Zack_of_Steel+ 3,014]

These same thoughts have been scrolling through my head the last couple years. I'm disgusted with everything and I struggle to find the will to succumb to the system. If I act as society dictates I will be rewarded with money and "worth", but will be unhappy with the state of things on a larger scale. The alternative, however, is never reaching my potential and leading a generally shitty life.

 

Maybe there's just not an answer.

[DonovanMcnabb for H.O.F 2,241]

I think at some point, we have to just accept it. While a change in social arrangement is possible, and happens, its not possible in a society as advanced as many societies are today. Money is only money because society views it as money, and society determines its worth. And today, society can't be considered "advanced" if it doesn't have enough.

 

And the societies that aren't there yet, are too busy chasing to obtain that kind of society. You won't find a society where it isn't valued, and the ones where you see people happy without it doesn't look appealing to most of us. And I'd argue that it also becomes less appealing to the people living that life when they see that there are people with so much more (unless if they truly are happy with where they are at, which isn't too often imo).

 

If we were to do a graph with a X and Y axis being average wage, and happiness (not sure how that would be measured) we'd find an arrow going up and then plateau occasionally dipping then going back up.

 

TL;DR, Money isn't necessary to be happy, but it is an enabling factor for happiness, and is probably the best way to avoid unhappiness. And while it would be great to live in a society where money isn't important, that's impossible today, therefore making money more then just something we try to obtain because its out duty to society, and our neighbor, but because having it genuinely allows us to be happy, and not having it does the opposite.

[Tridentdawgpound 1,043]

[ATL_Predator+ 1,196]

It's the root of all evil.

[CampinWithaMissingPerson 2,025]

evil doesn't exist; its subjective.

[ATL_Predator+ 1,196]

evil doesn't exist; its subjective.

 

I exist. So evil does indeed exist. Objective.

 

 

[CampinWithaMissingPerson 2,025]

[Omerta+ 1,206]

Man I have thought about this for years. In the Army especially is what got me thinking about this because I always wondered exactly how people determine what kind of job is worth what ? In America less than one percent of Americans are in the military and about 90 percent could not (or so we're told). I know not many people could handle the mental rigors of the job and the constant separation of family and the guilt that is associated with the job. That does not even involve the kill or be killed situations you may find yourself in. So this got me to thinking exactly who tells us exactly what job is worth what ?

 

Education seems to be the determining factor in what society says you are worth. The longer it would take a reasonable person to learn their craft is what society dictates your worth. So this led me to believe that on some level society believes that intelligence is far more important than physical strength. Outside of the big time extremes such as the NFL jobs that require 4+ years of school are deemed as a much more valuable asset. Why though ? Could that doctor with the bird chest and limp wrist spend all day working in a rock quarry ? Doubtful, so because the job is not particularly intellectually driven the fact that you were blessed with physical and endurance is somehow not as much of an asset as a mind ? Who determined this ? An asshole.

 

As to money I have been fortunate to be on both ends of the spectrum while making less than 20 K and making over 120K. Was I more happy with the higher pay ? Absolutely, I mean really who would not be ? As to the societal contract I think it is a fair question to ask, because in my situation I didnt really step on anybody to get where I was going to be honest. I did my time in the military, earned a degree, took out a VA loan and had a successful business for some time. I really did that all on my own, but I did it with a caveat and this is where the story got confusing for me.

 

I was faced with a choice. I could either pay my workers $40,000 a year which is not bad for industry standards and become even more profitable, or I could pay them about $60,000 or more depending on the level of experience they had in the field. This was interesting because I had to ask myself the question of what is it worth ? I mean I can live comfortably on 120K, with that being said though if I were to just go with the $40,000 I would have been staring at at least 200K. So the question was, exactly what is it worth for me to know that I could financially procure security for the most part or I could give a man a chance to save his money and open his own shop, or finance his kids education to wherever which may in turn lead to a cure for cancer or some delusional horseshit. Well I know most here don't like country and I get that, but this thread reminds me of the song I listened to. It is called " The Chain of Love" by Clay Walker. The song is about giving back and in the most inconspicuous way it could come back to find you.

 

So I decided to go with less and pay more which in the long run paid off because it go me loyalty of my people and they were always happy at work and never entertained the though of leaving because of pay and benefits initially. Later they figure out it was not bad working for me. So I learned from that that while most the time in life you are not going to get to make a decision that alters the lives of over 10 people when you do it absolutely comes down to a personal choice one person can make. I mean do I think I shaped the world that day, no, but I also believe that if enough people are willing to just play by the rules until they get the chance to make decisions that enough small decisions can at least change the part of the world we live in.

 

It is relative because human nature is to perceive our world as the world and for the most part are not generally involved in the big picture and the everyday interactions of the overwhelming majority of the population we don;t know we just want the world around us to be better. It would be great to change the world but looking back on when I reflect on my life I will know the times I had to make a positive impact that I did and I am accountable to know one but myself. A lot of members here are relatively young and I am not sure what your chosen professions are if you have one, but playing by the rules is not all bad. It will give you the chance to make your own money and in turn you may be the person that triggers such a positive influence in someone's life you actually do change the world.

 

As to the money determining worth I agree wholeheartedly, but what is what other people saying your worth is to you really mean to you ? I mean the only worth that matters is the worth of self and how you perceive yourself. Is it fucked up that people will not take the time to get to know you ? Of course because we all see many members here as bright individuals but looking at a resume would that really tell you the full story? Of course not. That being said money is the only thing on this planet that is really quantifiable and pairing it with misguided logic is about where we find ourselves or at least an approximation thereof. So I mean when looking at money in the abstract and the way society likes to tell us exactly how much our chosen profession would pay it would stand to reason if only by that of the societal contract that those who go to college longer were more determined and those earning higher grades are the smarter or the more driven of the candidate pool. In a business world as a hiring manager would you really have the time to invest in getting to know people on more than a superficial basis to determine what they are really like.

 

On a smaller scale look at the social hierarchy of TGP. None of us really know each other but yet we are willing to make snap judgement on the daily because of what we perceive that person to be whether it be age, gender, profession, or what we perceive as intelligence. I mean if someone is an idiot savant who is amazing at football, but drools on themselves are you really going to see them in real life and take the time to evaluate or are you going to find the guy in a Herb Adderly jersey and strike up some gridiron talk. It is so ingrained it is more of a reflex than a conscious though. Now I know some are going to say that you cant make snap judgement like that and that they would not do that, but the fact is that we do and it is everyone. Most people discount sean because what he has shown in the general sense of what we see on a computer screen he has said some outlandish things and he is often ridiculed and the Joe Mays thing brought up. Now of course people are going to say well that is reference of a documented history, but when applying for a high paying job or making decisions on whether to ax the mom and pop operation in lieu of a corporate subsidy you are making the decision based on a documented history of past interactions of a similar magnitude.

 

I think the time is coming though where societal upheaval is becoming not an intention but imminent. Looking at how the economy is going several respected economists are stating that in ten years the GDP of this country will only be sufficient to pay the interest on our debt, every year after that we are going to not even be able to pay the interest and our debt will just accrue on the principle we have now. The question will be raised who is to blame and the finger will immediately fall too billionaire corporations and congress. Once we get to that point everyone will become aware of the fact our entire economic situation is a product of printing unbacked and basically fiat money. I think in 20 years our economic landscapes is going to change and people will react violently .