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BwareDWare94

Civil Discourse: Ideology/Identity and Why so Many People have Conflated the Two

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It's no secret that identity politics are ravaging relations between people in the United States. Of course the media presents it as tension between races, though I'm not convinced that's the truth. I think the tension is mostly along political lines. So what's the primary issue that's causing all of this? Very clearly, people have conflated their own individual identities (as well as any group identity of which they belong to) with their preferred ideologies. No longer can the average American gather with friends, sit around the dinner table on Saturday night, and discuss recent events and politics without someone getting all huffy puffy and charging out of the house like a petulant child, speeding away in their car, and ending perfectly good friendships over political disagreements. How silly is that?

 

What do all of you think about this current climate?

 

How do you feel we should address this issue?

 

Do you think that this climate sabotages the development of critical thinking skills for developing young people?

Final question: Hypothetically you are a parent. In this climate moving forward, how we teach our children to not believe everything they read, not to rush to align with specific groups, and to come to their own conclusions about political issues. How would you go about this, hypothetically, as a parent?

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Yeah it is a huge problem. I would say though that in criticizing other people's version of identity politics, it's important to look at what shapes our own world view and to try and look past it and understand what someone else is saying or how they feel about something.

 

Just not being afraid to be challenged or even to be wrong is such a big part of it. I also think that not having fully formed ideas or understanding of shit and therefore not being able articulate what you're trying to say or in some cases parrot can cause people to short circuit and lash out. People hold their political opinions in the same regard as religious dogma's. For some reason something in our brains reacts in a nasty way when these perspectives are challenged.

Edited by seanbrock

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Yeah it is a huge problem. I would say though that in criticizing other people's version of identity politics, it's important to look at what shapes our own world view and to try and look past it and understand what someone else is saying or how they feel about something.

 

Just not being afraid to be challenged or even to be wrong is such a big part of it. I also think that not having fully formed ideas or understanding of shit and therefore not being able articulate what you're trying to say or in some cases parrot can cause people to short circuit and lash out. People hold their political opinions in the same regard as religious dogma's. For some reason something in our brains reacts in a nasty way when these perspectives are challenged.

 

There some truth in there though. The only thing I disagree with is empathy lol. I am not saying empathy is bad or that you should not consider how you doing/saying something will effect others, but I think a large part of the problem is caring too much about how others will feel. I think it puts a lot of pressure on some people to behave in a way that is authentic. I think one of the largest reasons young people are having such an identity crisis other than they are weak is that they define themselves by likes, views, resnaps or whatever they fuck they are. I dont have social media and this is why. I generally and literally give not one fuck about what people think about me, my life, their life,or anything else lol. These kids are being told that they should make decisions because other people will like them or they will want to hang out. Instead of just being who they are and being afraid to walk out on a limb kids are boxing themselves in and wont try new things. That is why instead of having creative outlets and garage bands like Nirvana (even though they are ass) we have school shootings instead.

 

I really think we need to be honest with kids and adults and tell them,"Hey, not everyone has to matter, in fact, they don't" It is so much easier to ignore negative people who add nothing to your life experience than try to justify why they think what they think. If you and them are never going to see eye to eye and they add nothing, why not cut them out? I dont have to listen to everyone to have an informed opinion, a lot of opinions really add nothing of value, to anything.I am a big fan of gong with what is going to benefit the largest amount of people, without crushing others in the process. Take the gun thing, I think MORE people want to have an unamended and unabridged second amendment, and since it is a right granted by the constitution, the others are shit out of luck. I am not saying I am opposed to listening to other people on it, but I have heard almost no reason other than, "Well other countries do it" Ok, well we aren't those countries so get over it, the cultures are entirely different. More people just need to ignore shit that adds no value.

 

Now I am all for the being challenged thing. I think the problem comes is that you need to be able to see when it comes to a point where there is no more production to be had. People argue things long past being productive because they HAVE to change your mind. It is OK to be challenged and evaluate it, and decide it is of no merit in your mind and ignore it. We all do it, we are just never honest about it. If you are challenged and fund it adds value then fine, you should probably add that to the ol'playbook.

 

I think you are great about that. There are some things you say that are waaaay to stupid for you to say imo, like your whole I should be able to hit cops and if they shoot me they are wrong. Then you say things like your post on the DNC and completely nail it. You always listen though, but you never feel compelled to take the argument to the mat once it starts becoming unproductive. You stick to your guns, but you generally dont entertain shit past being productive and reasoned discourse. We need to start telling young kids do what makes you happy and fuck what other people say. Go out in your life adn make them look like dolts. Or if you feel compelled punch those shitheads in the face. Less peopel die from disagreements settled with fists then guns.

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I see what you're saying and agree with a lot of it but I don't necessarily think that applys to having productive or at least civil discussions about stuff like politics or philosophy. I totally agree with you when it comes social media though as far as it pressuring young people to follow trends and peer pressure and not to think independently.

 

Let me put it to you this way, though. A lawyer needs to understand both sides and have the ability to argue both sides regardless of their personal opinion on the case. I feel as though that's the way you should strive to approach learning about politics or philosophy (something I need to work on) and it just so happens that one of the best ways to learn that stuff is to discuss it with people that challenge your ideas and make you think. I would certainly agree that you should probably put more weight to some people's opinions than others but I just try to remind myself as much as possible that I really don't know shit. I've found that kind of thinking gives you a healthier perspective.

 

Also I think our public school system is sort of responsible for this because they just try to jam information into people's brains by repitition. Nobody actual learns anything anymore. Critical thinking and analysis are an afterthought when they should be foundations. Dissent and division shouldn't be avoided. They're fucking crucial to society and it's how we learn and grow and evolve(intellectually speaking)

Edited by seanbrock

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This will be another Civil Discourse thread in the future because it's worth its own topic, but I think crippling narcissism is another root to this issue, as well as other issues that people confront in life in 2018. Ngata alluded to it with his stances on social media.

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