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seanbrock

2020 Democratic Primary Race

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The lone consolation prize to Trump’s inevitable victory is going to be watching all the bougois liberals who refused to support Bernie be brought to their knees with the rest of us. All because he wanted poor people and young people to have some level of dignity. A big fuck you to each and every single on

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If you sit there and dont vote when the literal democracy of this country is at stake, you're as bad as they are. Get out and fix this. Biden is bad. He's not a dictator. Trump gets four more years we might not have another fair election.

Biden is up 9-10. He's up 4-5 in most of the swing states. This is not an inevitable Trump victory, its not even close.

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9 minutes ago, Thanatos said:

If you sit there and dont vote when the literal democracy of this country is at stake, you're as bad as they are. Get out and fix this. Biden is bad. He's not a dictator. Trump gets four more years we might not have another fair election.

Biden is up 9-10. He's up 4-5 in most of the swing states. This is not an inevitable Trump victory, its not even close.

With Republicans controlling most every court and governorship, how many of those mail in ballots will be “lost” or thrown out for whatever bullshit reason they decide? This election is over and honestly, I think Biden would take the ball and run with it even if he did win. He’s spent his entire political career creating the circumstances that have made it possible for Trump to have all this authoritarian power and you think when he finally gets his chance to be president he’s just going to give that power up? Maybe he’s at least get back into nuclear treaties. Maybe he would be slightly better. I honestly don’t know who I’m voting for at this point. I might suck it up and vote for him but I’m not as convinced as you that it really matters. Whatever justice he would nominate would be an anti-worker fascist that supports women’s reproductive rights....yay

Edited by seanbrock

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17 hours ago, Thanatos said:

If you sit there and dont vote when the literal democracy of this country is at stake, you're as bad as they are. Get out and fix this. Biden is bad. He's not a dictator. Trump gets four more years we might not have another fair election.

Biden is up 9-10. He's up 4-5 in most of the swing states. This is not an inevitable Trump victory, its not even close.

Only problem with this is Biden has been up higher. Substantially so. It's weird seeing Biden camp out at his house and do nothing while Trump makes himself look like a moron and then look at polls that say Trump is (obviously still behind) but gaining. 

This isn't directed at anyone person specifically... but I find it sadly hilarious that people can be so Anti-Trump that they allow Biden to do a lot of what they hate Trump for. He's a corporatist, non-progressive pig with a long history of bad personal and legislative precedent on racial issues with a history of being very fucking weird with women and children. Creep level. Gross. Also, all these people talking about how Trump winning would be the end of democracy or whatever... Man, go check out Portland, is that shit democracy? Go look at the DNC literally rigging votes and elections RIGHT NOW. That isn't to say the GOP isnt't doing the same exact thing, of course they are. 

But if you vote for either broken wing of this shit bird -- I think you are just buying into the partisan, divisive politics that both parties champion. They want it to be Us Vs Ourselves and that's what they have. We are all too worried about my team beating your team to turn the attention on the systemic issues that got us here to begin with.

Also, I am going to be honest... I have seen a lot of grandstanding in regards to voting for Biden just for the SCOTUS seat. On that note:

1) Trump's already packed the courts to the brim. The SC as well, but you've seen both Roberts and Gorsuch flip occasionally. This has supposedly pissed Trump off immensely. So if the main argument is the SC and the evidence is two conservative judges dissenting from the conservative pack, which pisses off Trump... eh, it doesn't hit as strongly for me as motivation to vote for Biden. 

2) I do not trust a Biden nominee anymore than I would a Trump nominee. Biden and Harris are so pro-prison and pro-incarceration that I think I would be legit more afraid of the damage that person could inflict rather than some doofus extreme pro-lifer. With that said, I also don't believe the propaganda machine trying to convince me Roe v Wade is being threatened. Even with a mega anti-abortion judge like Amy Coney Barrett -- I don't think Roe is going anywhere. Coney Barrett herself has talked about abortion as a right that, which isn't going to change. Maybe it becomes more restrictive based on term or how close to birth the woman is? Idk. Even with a Trump packed SC -- I don't think they would have the votes to make drastic changes to abortion law though. With that said, purely based on the SC... I think I have to pick Trump over Biden. 

If Biden was an actual progressive I would think differently.

 

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@Favre4Everthe people in Portland, whether or not you agree with their tactics are fighting for YOUR constitutional rights to due process and if you value property rights over that then you’re a fool. You won’t get them back if you don’t stand with black lives matter. Period. Most people own nothing of consequence but debt in reality and are a few bad months from losing it all which is a very distinct possibility as the economy continues to collapse and who will be there to help the banks take everything they own? The cops because who do they really protect and serve? 

Edited by seanbrock

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55 minutes ago, seanbrock said:

@Favre4Everthe people in Portland, whether or not you agree with their tactics are fighting for YOUR constitutional rights to due process and if you value property rights over that then you’re a fool. You won’t get them back if you don’t stand with black lives matter. Period. Most people own nothing of consequence but debt in reality and are a few bad months from losing it all which is a very distinct possibility as the economy continues to collapse and who will be there to help the banks take everything they own? The cops because who do they really protect and serve? 

Nah. They ain't fighting for my anything. 

Same for those losers in Seattle who set up and enforce their autonomous zone. Maybe the original idea was pure, but when you're beating up random people going into your zone or even jsut people you don't like... You are officially a moron. I feel awful for anyone who owns a business in that zone, complete mayhem. Those pricks look out for nobody but themselves. Just more divisive egged on or allowed by the government to distract. I know they've been mostly scuttled by now but so many in the area still feeling the aftermath of them "fighting for everyones rights" lmao. Unacceptable.

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2 minutes ago, Favre4Ever said:

Nah. They ain't fighting for my anything. 

Same for those losers in Seattle who set up and enforce their autonomous zone. Maybe the original idea was pure, but when you're beating up random people going into your zone or even jsut people you don't like... You are officially a moron. I feel awful for anyone who owns a business in that zone, complete mayhem. Those pricks look out for nobody but themselves. Just more divisive egged on or allowed by the government to distract. I know they've been mostly scuttled by now but so many in the area still feeling the aftermath of them "fighting for everyones rights" lmao. Unacceptable.

At least they’re doing something. I think some people will always be looking for opportunities and the feds are always looking to antagonize. Not all of them are there fighting for rights or anything for that matter really but the movement to protect our rights has virtually no organization or direction but it’s a response to the slow militarization of the police and erosion of our rights to due process. 

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26 minutes ago, seanbrock said:

At least they’re doing something. I think some people will always be looking for opportunities and the feds are always looking to antagonize. Not all of them are there fighting for rights or anything for that matter really but the movement to protect our rights has virtually no organization or direction but it’s a response to the slow militarization of the police and erosion of our rights to due process. 

I agree. It's a discussion that needs to be had and one that needs to lead to change. 

But then I also look at who a lot of those people are going to be voting for... 

And it's nobody who has their best interest at heart. You know how I view Bernie... Not super favorably, lol. But I hate seeing these corporatist hack Democrats just continuously fight the progressive wing of their party. Beating them back like they are some kind of evil voodoo magic lmao.  I... again, respect the idea. The action itself to a degree, I just dislike the manner in which they chose to share their displeasures. I am perhaps being pessimistic, but it is going to be so hard to make these types of changes when our leaders don't believe in them. I've had trouble with this idea for years of going too big too fast.. starting the grassroots movements, start local and eventually the change will trickle up... But damn, is that a slow ass strategy lol.

I just want it all, right now. Tomorrow. This election.

And I am sure there has been some mention at one of his media outings so I am being a little facetious here.. But when was the last time Biden even talked about fucking health care? It. Blows. My. Mind.  I

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The only way we can get these changes is to be in the streets. No politician on either side of aisle care about you and I with the exception of a handful if we’re lucky. So like I said, you might not agree with their tactics and there might be some opportunists but they’re the only ones fighting this shit. I really don’t think there’s a political solution to this but we can’t win with violence either because we don’t have tanks and drones or any spying capabilities so shutting down cities And strikes might literally be our only option. 

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22 hours ago, Favre4Ever said:

Only problem with this is Biden has been up higher. Substantially so. It's weird seeing Biden camp out at his house and do nothing while Trump makes himself look like a moron and then look at polls that say Trump is (obviously still behind) but gaining. 

This isn't directed at anyone person specifically... but I find it sadly hilarious that people can be so Anti-Trump that they allow Biden to do a lot of what they hate Trump for. He's a corporatist, non-progressive pig with a long history of bad personal and legislative precedent on racial issues with a history of being very fucking weird with women and children. Creep level. Gross. Also, all these people talking about how Trump winning would be the end of democracy or whatever... Man, go check out Portland, is that shit democracy? Go look at the DNC literally rigging votes and elections RIGHT NOW. That isn't to say the GOP isnt't doing the same exact thing, of course they are. 

But if you vote for either broken wing of this shit bird -- I think you are just buying into the partisan, divisive politics that both parties champion. They want it to be Us Vs Ourselves and that's what they have. We are all too worried about my team beating your team to turn the attention on the systemic issues that got us here to begin with.

Also, I am going to be honest... I have seen a lot of grandstanding in regards to voting for Biden just for the SCOTUS seat. On that note:

1) Trump's already packed the courts to the brim. The SC as well, but you've seen both Roberts and Gorsuch flip occasionally. This has supposedly pissed Trump off immensely. So if the main argument is the SC and the evidence is two conservative judges dissenting from the conservative pack, which pisses off Trump... eh, it doesn't hit as strongly for me as motivation to vote for Biden. 

2) I do not trust a Biden nominee anymore than I would a Trump nominee. Biden and Harris are so pro-prison and pro-incarceration that I think I would be legit more afraid of the damage that person could inflict rather than some doofus extreme pro-lifer. With that said, I also don't believe the propaganda machine trying to convince me Roe v Wade is being threatened. Even with a mega anti-abortion judge like Amy Coney Barrett -- I don't think Roe is going anywhere. Coney Barrett herself has talked about abortion as a right that, which isn't going to change. Maybe it becomes more restrictive based on term or how close to birth the woman is? Idk. Even with a Trump packed SC -- I don't think they would have the votes to make drastic changes to abortion law though. With that said, purely based on the SC... I think I have to pick Trump over Biden. 

If Biden was an actual progressive I would think differently.

 

The average polling has been pretty consistently Biden by 9-10. My point with this though isnt that he's going to win 100% it was to counter Sean's argument that he has no chance which is ludicrous. He has a 70-75% chance atm.

The both sides has to stop, and its frankly idiotic to suggest it at this point. One side is not great. One side is actively claiming that mail in ballots are rigged and lying 10 times a day to sow doubt about our election process. 

The idea that Portland is some hellhole is right wing propaganda. Once the secret police got the fuck out, its been largely peaceful. We've had enough of this bullshit.

But I waste my breath clearly. If you're still picking Trump over Biden at this point, then as I said earlier,  you are lost and there is no further point to debate. You've chosen Trump over your country. You just want to pick a contrary position because its all you ever do. The man knew COVID was five times deadlier than the flu and then came out and lied to us that it wasn't, downplaying it the whole time and costing us a ton of lives. 

I have zero respect for anyone who votes Trump at this point.

Edited by Thanatos

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On 9/22/2020 at 10:58 PM, seanbrock said:

With Republicans controlling most every court and governorship, how many of those mail in ballots will be “lost” or thrown out for whatever bullshit reason they decide? This election is over and honestly, I think Biden would take the ball and run with it even if he did win. He’s spent his entire political career creating the circumstances that have made it possible for Trump to have all this authoritarian power and you think when he finally gets his chance to be president he’s just going to give that power up? Maybe he’s at least get back into nuclear treaties. Maybe he would be slightly better. I honestly don’t know who I’m voting for at this point. I might suck it up and vote for him but I’m not as convinced as you that it really matters. Whatever justice he would nominate would be an anti-worker fascist that supports women’s reproductive rights....yay

If they steal the election by declaring mail in ballots fraudulent when they are not, then our options will be exhausted and it will be time to break out the guillotines. Let's cross that bridge if we come to it and exhaust every other option first.

Also governorship isn't mostly controlled by the GOP, not sure where you got that from. There's 26 GOP and 24 Democrats.

As far as judges go, while Trump has appointed a lot for a first term, its not unprecedented. Carter appointed more and he lost to Reagan who immediately appointed almost twice as much. The GOP has sold their soul for the judges, I agree, but if Trump is limited to one term, so are the damages.

We have Democrats actively talking about expanding the SC. Take back the White House and Senate, expand the Court to 15 and have Biden immediately appoint six to offset Trump and the utter hypocrisy of the GOP by replacing Ginsburg less than two months before the election even though Graham (and others) specifically said they would not do so in 2016.

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@Thanatos I can guarantee you mail in votes will be thrown out, disqualified and/or lost in GOP controlled states. We’re talking about the GOP. Lol

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I am serious. If they toss mail in votes because they claim they are fraudulent with no proof, the system will have failed us and violence will be the last resort. There are plenty of eyes watching them. If they steal this election, we will know. I don't think they can do it without us knowing.

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26 minutes ago, Thanatos said:

I am serious. If they toss mail in votes because they claim they are fraudulent with no proof, the system will have failed us and violence will be the last resort. There are plenty of eyes watching them. If they steal this election, we will know. I don't think they can do it without us knowing.

That just gives them an excuse to bring in the military and use all their tools of surveillance to arrest everyone. The real solution would be just to stop going to work and march on Capitol Hill. We’ve seen we can bring this country to it’s knees simply by not going to work.

 

in Japan bus drivers wanted a raise so they let everyone ride for free and it only took a day of that for them to get what they want. All we need is solidarity. 

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/cities/2018/may/11/no-ticket-to-ride-japanese-bus-drivers-strike-by-giving-free-rides-okayama

Edited by seanbrock
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16 minutes ago, seanbrock said:

That just gives them an excuse to bring in the military and use all their tools of surveillance to arrest everyone. The real solution would be just to stop going to work and march on Capitol Hill. We’ve seen we can bring this country to it’s knees simply by not going to work.

 

in Japan bus drivers wanted a raise so they let everyone ride for free and it only took a day of that for them to get what they want. All we need is solidarity. 

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/cities/2018/may/11/no-ticket-to-ride-japanese-bus-drivers-strike-by-giving-free-rides-okayama

How is this any different than just voting Biden in? Lets say you march on the Hill and stop working. What do you think happens? What are the demands?

Your ideas always sound good in theory, but they are no basis in reality. You think thousands of Americans are going to just stop working and make no money?

Edited by Thanatos

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6 hours ago, Thanatos said:

The average polling has been pretty consistently Biden by 9-10. My point with this though isnt that he's going to win 100% it was to counter Sean's argument that he has no chance which is ludicrous. He has a 70-75% chance atm.

The both sides has to stop, and its frankly idiotic to suggest it at this point. One side is not great. One side is actively claiming that mail in ballots are rigged and lying 10 times a day to sow doubt about our election process. 

The idea that Portland is some hellhole is right wing propaganda. Once the secret police got the fuck out, its been largely peaceful. We've had enough of this bullshit.

But I waste my breath clearly. If you're still picking Trump over Biden at this point, then as I said earlier,  you are lost and there is no further point to debate. You've chosen Trump over your country. You just want to pick a contrary position because its all you ever do. The man knew COVID was five times deadlier than the flu and then came out and lied to us that it wasn't, downplaying it the whole time and costing us a ton of lives. 

I have zero respect for anyone who votes Trump at this point.

I mean this is either taking me out of context or you are just confused. I didn't say I was voting for Trump. I didn't vote for Trump last time either. What I did say though.. Was based PURELY on SCOTUS, I would prefer Trump. Biden's pick for the high court, in my opinion, would be much worse. Just an opinion, you don't have to agree. With that clarified / reiterated -- I have never voted for anyone based on one issue. Ever. Not starting now. 

And just as I was talking with Sean... I never called Portland a hellhole. I, however, can't support how they choose to get their ideas across. They are hurting themselves and others in their community more than they are the system or higher powers. I could be wrong, as I usually am, but I see no benefit to Portland whatsoever. None. At best they may get some new half-measure city ordinances? Wohooo? Eh.

 

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6 hours ago, Thanatos said:

If they steal the election by declaring mail in ballots fraudulent when they are not, then our options will be exhausted and it will be time to break out the guillotines. Let's cross that bridge if we come to it and exhaust every other option first.

Also governorship isn't mostly controlled by the GOP, not sure where you got that from. There's 26 GOP and 24 Democrats.

As far as judges go, while Trump has appointed a lot for a first term, its not unprecedented. Carter appointed more and he lost to Reagan who immediately appointed almost twice as much. The GOP has sold their soul for the judges, I agree, but if Trump is limited to one term, so are the damages.

We have Democrats actively talking about expanding the SC. Take back the White House and Senate, expand the Court to 15 and have Biden immediately appoint six to offset Trump and the utter hypocrisy of the GOP by replacing Ginsburg less than two months before the election even though Graham (and others) specifically said they would not do so in 2016.

Democrats are pussies. None of that is actually going to happen. Not yet, not under Biden. I hope I am wrong, but leadership is mostly spineless pigs. Your blind loyalty to them and/or blind optimism would be inspiring if it wasn't so misguided and baffling. lol.

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3 hours ago, Favre4Ever said:

I mean this is either taking me out of context or you are just confused. I didn't say I was voting for Trump. I didn't vote for Trump last time either. What I did say though.. Was based PURELY on SCOTUS, I would prefer Trump. Biden's pick for the high court, in my opinion, would be much worse. Just an opinion, you don't have to agree. With that clarified / reiterated -- I have never voted for anyone based on one issue. Ever. Not starting now. 

And just as I was talking with Sean... I never called Portland a hellhole. I, however, can't support how they choose to get their ideas across. They are hurting themselves and others in their community more than they are the system or higher powers. I could be wrong, as I usually am, but I see no benefit to Portland whatsoever. None. At best they may get some new half-measure city ordinances? Wohooo? Eh.

 

What im saying is that the idea there is some grand rebellion and multiple violent riots day in and day out is right-wing propaganda just like Fox News' scare tactics over Shariah law in PA awhile back. It's blatantly false reporting to scare old white people. 

Preferring Trump pick a SC justice to Biden is asinine if you're liberal, lol. One is staunchly conservative the other would be a question mark. The continued push by people to act like Biden is still going to put the same policies he wanted 20 years ago is disingenuous at best, and intentionally misleading at worst.

As far as your second post about Dems being pussies:

First of all I have blind loyalty to no one. My vote for Biden is an anti-Trump one. Trump is a direct threat to the United States and must be removed from office before we can do anything else. Biden is not a good candidate, but he isn't going to destroy our democracy, and I legitimately believe Trump could do so if given four more years.

Secondly, I think you sorely underestimate the AOC wing of the party and the repercussions the GOP are going to face for ramming an SC justice through and proving how utterly hypocritical they are. If the other side won't play by the same rules they set, then its time to ditch the rules, and I do think the Dems are waking up to that. Expanding the SC is a legitimate option if the GOP steals (another) SC seat.

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Right. We agree on that then. 
 

How do you define liberal per se? Most Democrats, centrists, and even center right voters aren’t exactly in favor of policies that Biden has supported throughout his career. I would very much like him to post a short list of who he thinks would fill that seat if her were president. If you’re just talking about your typical Democrat who is gonna vote strictly based on party , then ya... obviously they would prefer a Biden judge because they don’t really care about policy. They just want their team to win, like their counterparts in the GOP. 
 

What evidence is there that Biden is anyone other than who he has been his entire life ? Biden has been in politics for 20% of the lifespan of the United States — I don’t understand the faith in him to be radically different than who he has been over the last 50 years. Guy has assault allegations levied against him, makes racist comments, openly mocks the progressive wing of his own party... picked an evil woman who agrees with him on major policies he has supported in his life like mass incarceration, long jail sentences for low level offenses, further destroying and keeping down poor people which disproportionately impacts people of color. 
 

Look at his campaign ... he’s banking on somewhat well to do suburban white people to win this election. Lol. And it’ll probably work just because of COVID and anti Trump people like yourself. Yes, you get a victory for getting rid of Trump. However you get to take the Big fat L when Democrats roll with the “cater to uppity white folks even more” platform that they likely adopt going forward just because they want to win elections. 
 

Trumps pretty shitty. We all agree with that, except Phil and maybe Bware . But what is this “he will destroy America” stuff that is quite literally taken right from the DNC talking points ? Not saying his policies are even good but what specifically moves you to feel like America is literally going to be destroyed by Trump beyond what any other President has done ? 
 

And as I’ve previously stated why not rail against Democrats for rigging their primaries ? Why not rail against them for telling many of their incumbents to not debate their challengers because it would likely hurt their chances? Why not rail against them for suing to eliminate the Green Party because the DNC views the Green Party as a threat to establishment corporatist business as usual politics ? 
 

And to be clear, I only focus on the DNC’s corruption and literal destroying of our democracy because none of us would disagree that the GOP is doing the same thing. 
 

And that’s really the whole crux of this discussion , at least from my side. I don’t personally feel like being an anti-Trump vote is constructive at all. I get and accept people hate Trump.  Nothing wrong with that....But I just can’t get my head around being anti-Trump just to vote for a party and a candidate who represents (largely but not wholly) the same exact things you’re voting against Trump for.
 

That doesn’t quite click for me and I’ve had a couple similar discussions with friends and none of them offer anything genuinely concrete. It’s like I’m talking to a CNN headline randomizer. Lol 

I do agree though that the AOC wing of the party as you dubbed them can and will make a difference at some point. Don’t think it’s going to be under Biden though. AOC herself (IIRC, maybe it was a staffer) that Biden / his team has had very little contact with her about much of anything. 
 

Assuming Biden wins and lives hopefully she primaries him if he runs for re-election (doubtful probably, but I could see the DNC wheeling out Biden’s brain in a jar on the campaign trail so who knows). Or at least challenges Kamala heavily in the primaries because as VP she’d probably be the favorite going into the next cycle. 
 

I have hope , but very little for the next 4 years. 

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MSM won't cover this, but they'll of course come out with a hit piece where Trump supposedly said he hates the troops (which gets eaten up by hardcore leftists such as Thanatos). Can you imagine the absolute chaotic outrage that would happen if Trump said this? Lol

Edited by DJT20

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3 hours ago, DJT20 said:

MSM won't cover this, but they'll of course come out with a hit piece where Trump supposedly said he hates the troops (which gets eaten up by hardcore leftists such as Thanatos). Can you imagine the absolute chaotic outrage that would happen if Trump said this? Lol

I can’t believe anyone wants to vote for this guy. Lol. Debate should be good. I’m still wondering if Joe will be surprisingly decent or a total train wreck 

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1 hour ago, Favre4Ever said:

I can’t believe anyone wants to vote for this guy. Lol. Debate should be good. I’m still wondering if Joe will be surprisingly decent or a total train wreck 

As per usual, DJT posts more lies like the cult follower he is.  A) This is from 2016 and B) he's making a joke about appointing the head of the academy which none of them liked, thus the laughter from the soldiers. I thought the right didnt like being people being offended on someone else's behalf?

Edited by Thanatos

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13 hours ago, Favre4Ever said:

Right. We agree on that then. 
 

How do you define liberal per se? Most Democrats, centrists, and even center right voters aren’t exactly in favor of policies that Biden has supported throughout his career. I would very much like him to post a short list of who he thinks would fill that seat if her were president. If you’re just talking about your typical Democrat who is gonna vote strictly based on party , then ya... obviously they would prefer a Biden judge because they don’t really care about policy. They just want their team to win, like their counterparts in the GOP. 

I would also like him to post such a list. I think it was a good idea when Trump did it, and I think Biden should do so as well. People would prefer a Biden judge because Trump is going to appoint someone who is will try to take out Roe and the ACA. 
 

What evidence is there that Biden is anyone other than who he has been his entire life ? Biden has been in politics for 20% of the lifespan of the United States — I don’t understand the faith in him to be radically different than who he has been over the last 50 years. Guy has assault allegations levied against him, makes racist comments, openly mocks the progressive wing of his own party... picked an evil woman who agrees with him on major policies he has supported in his life like mass incarceration, long jail sentences for low level offenses, further destroying and keeping down poor people which disproportionately impacts people of color. 

The guy has one assault allegation against him that was pretty thoroughly investigated and found to be nothing. Trump has 26. 

Calling Harris evil is way off the mark. Sure she's fucked up a lot and she wouldn't have been my pick, but acting like she's evil is way over the line. Trump is evil. Harris is a politician.

None of that really matters. Again, our democracy is at stake. Biden is not my first or second or third choice. He's still the only choice right now. There will nothing left to fix if you give Trump and the GOP four more years.
 

Look at his campaign ... he’s banking on somewhat well to do suburban white people to win this election. Lol. And it’ll probably work just because of COVID and anti Trump people like yourself. Yes, you get a victory for getting rid of Trump. However you get to take the Big fat L when Democrats roll with the “cater to uppity white folks even more” platform that they likely adopt going forward just because they want to win elections. 
That's not an L. That's "congratulations our democracy gets to last four more years and the benches aren't so stacked with judges we can try to get some progressive policies through". Acting like because we can't get everything we should therefore go for nothing is a dumb argument.

Trumps pretty shitty. We all agree with that, except Phil and maybe Bware . But what is this “he will destroy America” stuff that is quite literally taken right from the DNC talking points ? Not saying his policies are even good but what specifically moves you to feel like America is literally going to be destroyed by Trump beyond what any other President has done ? 
 

Have you heard the man? He wants a third term because he claims his first was screwed by Dems impeaching him. The GOP has enabled him at every move, and allowed him to continue to undermine the Constitution. He is setting a ridiculous precedent for anyone who follows him. If he gets two more SC picks, hell even one more liberal being replaced, and they could undo 50 years of progressive policies.

And as I’ve previously stated why not rail against Democrats for rigging their primaries ? Why not rail against them for telling many of their incumbents to not debate their challengers because it would likely hurt their chances? Why not rail against them for suing to eliminate the Green Party because the DNC views the Green Party as a threat to establishment corporatist business as usual politics ? 
 

I'd love proof that the Dems rigged the primaries. I suppose I have less confidence in the Dem base than you do, because I absolutely believe they voted for Biden. The Green Party is a threat to the Dems, because they draw 2-3% of voters that would vote otherwise. We need a fundamental change of the system to have more parties.

And to be clear, I only focus on the DNC’s corruption and literal destroying of our democracy because none of us would disagree that the GOP is doing the same thing. 

Fair.
 

And that’s really the whole crux of this discussion , at least from my side. I don’t personally feel like being an anti-Trump vote is constructive at all. I get and accept people hate Trump.  Nothing wrong with that....But I just can’t get my head around being anti-Trump just to vote for a party and a candidate who represents (largely but not wholly) the same exact things you’re voting against Trump for.
He's absolutely nothing like Trump, that is downright ridiculous. Biden, at the very least, takes COVID seriously and will listen to the science. Trump actively denies science and mocks people for wearing masks.

That doesn’t quite click for me and I’ve had a couple similar discussions with friends and none of them offer anything genuinely concrete. It’s like I’m talking to a CNN headline randomizer. Lol 

Trump's policies have results in hundreds of thousands of avoidable deaths. He's actively removing protections from the environment. He's undermining Congressional authority and moving it to the White House. 

I do agree though that the AOC wing of the party as you dubbed them can and will make a difference at some point. Don’t think it’s going to be under Biden though. AOC herself (IIRC, maybe it was a staffer) that Biden / his team has had very little contact with her about much of anything. 
I mean that their influence will cause the Dems in Congress to do something. Biden wouldn't be the one spearheading it, merely signing off on it.

Assuming Biden wins and lives hopefully she primaries him if he runs for re-election (doubtful probably, but I could see the DNC wheeling out Biden’s brain in a jar on the campaign trail so who knows). Or at least challenges Kamala heavily in the primaries because as VP she’d probably be the favorite going into the next cycle. 
AOC is setting up to challenge Schumer for the Senate leadership in 2022, I think. And then use that as a springboard to run. 

I have hope , but very little for the next 4 years. 

We just need to survive.

 

Edited by Thanatos

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14 minutes ago, Thanatos said:

As per usual, DJT posts more lies like the cult follower he is.  A) This is from 2016 and B) he's making a joke about appointing the head of the academy which none of them liked, thus the laughter from the soldiers. I thought the right didnt like being people being offended on someone else's behalf?

Ironically, you know you just sound like a Trumpster right? Anytime Trump says something really stupid or awful, they just rush to his defense and say he was "joking" or "taken out of context". Like, ehhhh. Lol. Do as I say, not as I do though -- right?

  • Haha 1

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17 minutes ago, Favre4Ever said:

Ironically, you know you just sound like a Trumpster right? Anytime Trump says something really stupid or awful, they just rush to his defense and say he was "joking" or "taken out of context". Like, ehhhh. Lol. Do as I say, not as I do though -- right?

What a lazy argument. So since Trump defenders always claim he's joking/taken out of context, I can never legitimately point out Biden is being taken out of context or joking otherwise I'm just like them? 

This would be valid if I never criticized Biden or said he said stupid things. Oh wait, I have. Multiple times. In this very thread. You're arguing disingenuously again.

The guys laugh at his comment. This is clipped to show it in the worst way they can and it still comes off as a joke to the people listening. Trump's people do this all the time. How about when they clipped part of a Biden comment to claim he forgot the pledge of allegiance? Or when they literally photoshopped people out of a picture to make Biden look like he was trying to handshake thin air? Or when they did the same to a picture of Biden in his living room, making it seem like he was alone when there was 15 people in there? They do this intentionally so they can make the same argument you're making.

"We intentionally lie and fraudently edit videos to make it seem like Biden is doing things he isn't, but you can't point that out or you're just like us when we claim Trump- entirely not taken out of context at all- is being framed."

Fuck off.

Like this? This is legit awful that he would say this. This makes me mad. Not some old video clipped to show something: 

 

Edited by Thanatos

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