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seanbrock

2020 Democratic Primary Race

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6 minutes ago, Thanatos said:

You're misreading me here. I'm saying 95% of insurance companies try to fuck you over- as in try to figure out a way not to pay for your medical bill, whatever that might be.

It's not because we pay like 1000% more for it. Those prices are literally made up by the hospitals and the insurance companies. And even if your statement is true (it's not), is it worth it to pay ridiculously jacked up prices for medical care that is just slightly better? (As a general rule here.) For example, just ask Sarge how much his back surgery cost him in Columbia versus what it would have cost him in the US- and why.

When we talk about halving costs- its the ridiculous costs that we charge the consumer, which are mainly made up bullshit from the hospital. $60 for a single tylenol pill. $10k for a night's stay, etc. This is a problem between the insurance company and the hospital management- it is NOT the doctors fault. As far as the doctors opinions themselves they are split right down the middle: 49% for, 51% against from the latest poll I see, (May 2019).

Not to mention the fact that it stifles people wanting to start businesses, especially those people with kids. You leave your job you have to find a way to insure your family. 

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6 minutes ago, Omerta said:

It is absolutely true. Even as recently as a week ago we proved with the first ever CRISPR treatment anywhere in the world and the boost else is close.

Slightly better is relative. If US doctors and research labs cure sickle cell is that a slight thing. I had a broken neck and my share was less than 3k. My son broke is collarbone 6 months ago. It costs nothing.  Preventive care for mmt wise is 0. Maybe it is cheaper is in Colombia,  but I would take the innovative technology in the US versus anywhere else. 

And I would say it is more important as well because what I'd it's your kid.  You pay anything.  So put me in the place he has access to that. 

You have good insurance then. A lot of Americans don't. And plenty more could not afford a 2-3k out of pocket medical emergency without some form of bankruptcy. 

You confuse best care with best tech. Just because technology wise we are at the forefront does not mean that overall our medical care is the best in the world. It means that for the top 5% who can afford that shit, possibly they are all good. The rest of us are part of a system that is designed solely to make those in it more money.

For example- insulin. We keep giving out patents for incremental improvements to insulin- evidence suggests some of these are being intentionally held back- for the past 50+ years. So the patent keeps being renewed and no one can get ahold of generic insulin, which results in patients paying at least $150/mo WITH insurance a lot of times. 

Btw, Ngata, every time I reply to one of your posts I have to figure out what on earth you mean with some of your words lol. Normally I can, (I figure you're probably on your phone), but this one has me stumped "the boost else is close." I would think it would be "no one else is close", but not sure how it got to that lol.

Edited by Thanatos
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3 minutes ago, Omerta said:

It is absolutely true. Even as recently as a week ago we proved with the first ever CRISPR treatment anywhere in the world and the boost else is close.

Slightly better is relative. If US doctors and research labs cure sickle cell is that a slight thing. I had a broken neck and my share was less than 3k. My son broke is collarbone 6 months ago. It costs nothing.  Preventive care for mmt wise is 0. Maybe it is cheaper is in Colombia,  but I would take the innovative technology in the US versus anywhere else. 

And I would say it is more important as well because what I'd it's your kid.  You pay anything.  So put me in the place he has access to that. 

Well I would imagine that between you and your doctor wife, you guys pay enough for a good policy. Your experience is not most others experience. So health care access be based on your income be based on income? Idk lol

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33 minutes ago, seanbrock said:

Tulsi Gabbard supports medicare for all guys... In fact she supports Sanders' medicare for all bill. Actually, Tulsi Gabbard is Bernie Sanders biggest supporter. She fought for him when he wouldn't even fight for himself. A lot of the things Sanders is preaching, Tulsi is going to bring to Washington. 

Honestly, this is speculation but I'm not even sure Tulsi would challenge Sanders if he hadn't bent the knee to the DNC and the Clinton's.

 OK, so I disagree with her on one issue I still think she's the best candidate I really don't think it's close. I have and I think she's an intelligent calm articulate, well spoken person who has a grasp on what this country needs both internally and externally.

 

I think Bernie is a pussie ass broke down Communist reject, who is more idealistic than intelligent. I think hes a coward, and he has absolutely no backbone which is somebody I would not want to represent me as the leader of our country. Especially when it comes to Foreign Affairs. If you would bend the knee to somebody who amounts to nothing more than a postmenopausal, presidential elect reject, that absolutely everybody in this country hates (Hillary)  . There is no way you should deal with world leaders, if you cannot stand up to what amounts to 5th grade bully tactics.

 I guess really the one thing I cannot stand about Bernie more than anything is what a utterly gutless coward he is.  Short of some crimes, the one thing that I absolutely cannot deal with more than anything is a coward. The with a liar better than a coward come I to me if you're coward you don't deserve to hold any sort of political office or a steam for that matter. You're pretty much useless on every level Bernie is that guy

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8 minutes ago, Omerta said:

 OK, so I disagree with her on one issue I still think she's the best candidate I really don't think it's close. I have and I think she's an intelligent calm articulate, well spoken person who has a grasp on what this country needs both internally and externally.

 

I think Bernie is a pussie ass broke down Communist reject, who is more idealistic than intelligent. I think hes a coward, and he has absolutely no backbone which is somebody I would not want to represent me as the leader of our country. Especially when it comes to Foreign Affairs. If you would bend the knee to somebody who amounts to nothing more than a postmenopausal, presidential elect reject, that absolutely everybody in this country hates (Hillary)  . There is no way you should deal with world leaders, if you cannot stand up to what amounts to 5th grade bully tactics.

 I guess really the one thing I cannot stand about Bernie more than anything is what a utterly gutless coward he is.  Short of some crimes, the one thing that I absolutely cannot deal with more than anything is a coward. The with a liar better than a coward come I to me if you're coward you don't deserve to hold any sort of political office or a steam for that matter. You're pretty much useless on every level Bernie is that guy

I don't even know what to say lol. Bernie is a coward? Dude was getting arrested for fighting for civil rights in the 60's. He was fighting for gay rights in the 80's. He's been running as an independent for decades. He get slammed by media on a daily basis for the last 4 years. What are your talking about? Sanders has been saying the same shit for decades. He's endured smears of varying degrees for decades. Again, the DNC hates h, the GOP hates him, the media hates him and nothing has changed. Please explain lol.

Edited by seanbrock

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Sean and Thanatos acting like one Medicare for All Bill is like every other Medicare for All Bill. Sean and Thanatos acting like because Tulsi has supported Sanders and/or his bill before or currently that that means her medicare for all would be identical. 

I take you all back to debate one. Question was point blank... Do you support abolishing private insurance.

Bernie: Fuck yes, get rid of it tomorrow
Tulsi: No

That's a huge difference on it's own. That's the insurance plans of 150M people that Tulsi is valuing that Bernie isn't/doesn't.

This is the Medicare for All Act Tulsi is co-sponsoring:

Quote

In 2019, the House Medicare for All Act of 2019 by Jayapal was broadly similar but more detailed than the original Conyers proposal, but the "parallel" proposal by Sanders had significant differences, including a "global budget" system for hospitals. Both the proposals include expansive coverage including long-term care and dental care with no cost-sharing such as coinsurance, deductibles, or premiums, which as of 2019 is unprecedented in the world.

As of April 2019, the Senate proposal did not include details on how to completely pay for the plan, but Sanders had released a paper listing ideas

 

Edit: And let me just say that this goes back to what I was talking about earlier. It’s really easy to shout vague and general ideas “ LoL Tulsi supports Medicare for all 2 guyz “. 

Issues and differences between candidates and their plans are more complex, however. 

Also, I think it’s important to note that the plans of (for example) Bernie and Lizzy will never pass as is. They will have to make a lot of concessions and the passed legislation will be much more moderate in lean. There’s a reason that the Dem controlled house made significant changes (less progressive) to Bernie’s version from the Senate. 

If people are voting for Sanders/Lizzy because of the sheer volume of ideas they are pushing — I’ve got news for you. It’s not happening. Not how they want it too anyway.

Bernie has been doing this for 100 years and made very little progress. He doesn’t have the ability to whip Congress enough to adopt his bill without serious alterations. 

Edited by DalaiLama4Ever

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If Sanders won the presidency he would control the party by virtue of being the president elect and also but controlling most of the money coming into the party (the way Clinton did in 2016 except by individual donations). Schumer and Pelosi would be finished. He's primary anyone that doesn't support medicare for all (most would bend the knee to keep their job) and he would decimate Republicans across the country as he's demonstrated by his fundraising (https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/08/02/us/politics/2020-democratic-fundraising.html

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I didn’t say we wouldn’t get Medicare for all. I think every Democrat supports some variant of it in some way, don’t they? If a Democrat beats Trump the absolute least we get is a more expansive Obamacare. 

Also... how would Bernie being President mean Schumer and Pelosi are done? And even if they were, how is Bernie guaranteeing the new Senate/House leaders are behind his super progressive ideals? 

When was the last time a candidate ran on an idea and then had that exact thing pass as President without some crazy concessions prior to passage? I’m not sure ever.

President Bern would get something passed, but it’d be a shell of what he’s championing currently. 

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1 hour ago, seanbrock said:

I don't even know what to say lol. Bernie is a coward? Dude was getting arrested for fighting for civil rights in the 60's. He was fighting for gay rights in the 80's. He's been running as an independent for decades. He get slammed by media on a daily basis for the last 4 years. What are your talking about? Sanders has been saying the same shit for decades. He's endured smears of varying degrees for decades. Again, the DNC hates h, the GOP hates him, the media hates him and nothing has changed. Please explain lol.

If you dont see it you won't man.  Here is what I see.  When those black girls got on stage and went full ratchet and he just sat there stammering and pissing down his leg.  The DNC screws him and instead of standing up for himself he ho hums his way into endorsing the person who screwed him, he's a draft Dodger (that alone should disqualify you, but Bush Jr and Bonespurs proves people dont care), he let everyone at every debate talk over him and fart in his mouth. Dude is a straight pussy to me.

 

Oh and being courageous when you number in the thousands in a country who hasn't committed a genocide since the tail of tears is far from courageous. 

Just one mans opinion.

Edited by Omerta

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1 minute ago, Omerta said:

If you dont see it you won't man.  Here is what I see.  When those black girls got on stage and went full ratchet and he just sat there stammering and pissing down his leg.  The DNC screws him and instead of standing up for himself he ho hums his way into endorsing the person who screwed him, he's a draft Dodger (that alone should disqualify you, but Bush Jr and Bonespurs proves people dont care), he let everyone at every debate talk over him and fart in his mouth. Dude is a straight pussy to me.

Wouldn't you say there is a difference between conscientious objection and bone spurs? Especially when the conscientious objectors were proven right by history?

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Just now, seanbrock said:

Wouldn't you say there is a difference between conscientious objection and bone spurs? Especially when the conscientious objectors were proven right by history?

No, not in the slightest. Here is why because they both did the same thing. In a draft situation when you object, flee, or get a bullshit medical DQ, you send another poor bastard to go in your place. The end result is the same.

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Just now, Omerta said:

No, not in the slightest. Here is why because they both did the same thing. In a draft situation when you object, flee, or get a bullshit medical DQ, you send another poor bastard to go in your place. The end result is the same.

So if you don't believe in the war you shouldn't pull out of the war you shouldn't say no to killing people for the profit of billionaires ? Again, let me.point to the fact that Tulsi Gabbard is one of Sanders' biggest allies in Congress and joins him in the candidates most smeared by the media.

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1 hour ago, Thanatos said:

You have good insurance then. A lot of Americans don't. And plenty more could not afford a 2-3k out of pocket medical emergency without some form of bankruptcy. 

You confuse best care with best tech. Just because technology wise we are at the forefront does not mean that overall our medical care is the best in the world. It means that for the top 5% who can afford that shit, possibly they are all good. The rest of us are part of a system that is designed solely to make those in it more money.

For example- insulin. We keep giving out patents for incremental improvements to insulin- evidence suggests some of these are being intentionally held back- for the past 50+ years. So the patent keeps being renewed and no one can get ahold of generic insulin, which results in patients paying at least $150/mo WITH insurance a lot of times. 

Btw, Ngata, every time I reply to one of your posts I have to figure out what on earth you mean with some of your words lol. Normally I can, (I figure you're probably on your phone), but this one has me stumped "the boost else is close." I would think it would be "no one else is close", but not sure how it got to that lol.

You are correct with me being on my phone. The galaxy S10 is the worst phone for that I have ever had.

 So I understand, that I have probably been more fortunate than others in that regard, that being said it wasn't always the case maybe. I understand what it's like to sit in an emergency Room with crap insurance praying you don't screw yourself.

 When I see news stories, of people in foreign countries who are doing everything they can to come over the United States, because this is their last hope of saving their child, that carries a lot of weight with me. Now I understand not everybody is going to have access to this, but I also don't think passing taxes down to the middle class, which is how I think this would play out, only to have less profit based incentives for medical innovation is in a very big win.

 I think another thing people forget when they accuse big pharmaceutical companies of price gouging, is that all of the research, development, testing, and bureaucracy that it took to bring that medicine to market was extremely expensive and they weren't turning a dime from it, because they couldn't sell it. So yes they price gouge a large amount of their drugs so that way they can recoup the costs of all the research, so I think that is something we should be considering. Now would it be nice to have these things cheaper site it would, but I think this is one of the necessary evils you pay for innovation.

 As to  Medications I think this is an interesting topic. Because in your insulin example, pharmaceutical companies are getting accused of not bringing enough to market so that way they can manipulate laws of supply and demand, but on the flip side they were overprescribing the more expensive heroin, the one they make all the profit off of that, that said when you look at the amount of profit they make off with insulin versus heroin, due the manufacturing processes the differential price / profit margin on both are not very great, both could be a cash cow,  So why would they only choose to make profit off of one? I think this is just more of a function of hearing anecdotal evidence from a certain study common at not being a widespread pandemic.

 I have much more to say on  this topic, but I will wait until I get on my computer,  when I don't have to edit as much.

I will say we need some change to this process of insurance,  but I think Medicare for all is a REALLY bad idea, at least the on Bernie wants.

Edited by Omerta
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10 minutes ago, seanbrock said:

So if you don't believe in the war you shouldn't pull out of the war you shouldn't say no to killing people for the profit of billionaires ? Again, let me.point to the fact that Tulsi Gabbard is one of Sanders' biggest allies in Congress and joins him in the candidates most smeared by the media.

I am assuming you brought up Gabbard because she had the courage to go fight? Not when you are sending someone else to go in your place. 

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1 hour ago, seanbrock said:

Well I would imagine that between you and your doctor wife, you guys pay enough for a good policy. Your experience is not most others experience. So health care access be based on your income be based on income? Idk lol

I am assuming here you are saying access shouldn't be based on income. That is true but I shouldn't have to have a reduction in the standard of care for my family either.

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35 minutes ago, Omerta said:

I am assuming you brought up Gabbard because she had the courage to go fight? Not when you are sending someone else to go in your place. 

Well Gabbard herself has said she was duped into signing up by dishonest politicians and media.

22 minutes ago, Omerta said:

I am assuming here you are saying access shouldn't be based on income. That is true but I shouldn't have to have a reduction in the standard of care for my family either.

So you think you should have better health care based on your income? Is that why you don't support medicare for all? How about people can go to the doctor same price no matter the pre- condition (be it medical or financial)?

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45 minutes ago, Omerta said:

I am assuming here you are saying access shouldn't be based on income. That is true but I shouldn't have to have a reduction in the standard of care for my family either.

So then how would you like the system to work if it was up to you?  How you gonna pay for it? You gonna leave it up to markets or some kind of hybrid? You think regular peeps should get basic shitty insurance and people who pay more should get something better? You like ACA with a public option? How do we control premiums and medications? 

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8 hours ago, Omerta said:

 

I missed the part about pharma price gouging last night lol. Dawg, pharma gets millions upon millions given to them for their research by both the government AND the private sector. What in the actual fuck are you talking about? How long has insulin been a thing? They still paying for the research for that?? ??

Edited by seanbrock

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Something else to think about... these drugs that cost so much money to do proper R&D on are 100x more expensive here in the United States than anywhere else. I understand the costs associated with doing business and that the point of doing business is to make money — but there’s a reason Americans foot the bill. It’s because our political “advocates” allow big pharma to run wild. 

ScientificAmerican did a study on this... take the 20 most common drugs. Americans spend 3x as much as Brits do. For the same. Exact. Drugs. We’re also 6x higher than Brazil. And 16x more expensive than India. 

Is the excuse that these drug companies aren’t making money in Europe? Brazil? India? Doubtful. 

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1 hour ago, DalaiLama4Ever said:

Something else to think about... these drugs that cost so much money to do proper R&D on are 100x more expensive here in the United States than anywhere else. I understand the costs associated with doing business and that the point of doing business is to make money — but there’s a reason Americans foot the bill. It’s because our political “advocates” allow big pharma to run wild. 

ScientificAmerican did a study on this... take the 20 most common drugs. Americans spend 3x as much as Brits do. For the same. Exact. Drugs. We’re also 6x higher than Brazil. And 16x more expensive than India. 

Is the excuse that these drug companies aren’t making money in Europe? Brazil? India? Doubtful. 

I was kind of in shock to see ANYONE defend pharma price gouging. I just never thought I would see it from someone that isn't a lobbyist or something. Huh? Lol

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Yeah taking down big pharma would be a top priority for me. 

Didn’t someone (I think sarge??) make a thread where we all listed our top priorities. Might be fun to go back through there and see how we’ve changed / shifted our ideals. 

But ya, it’s definitely In that range of importance for me personally. It’d be in my 100 days agenda for sure. 

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6 hours ago, seanbrock said:

I missed the part about pharma price gouging last night lol. Dawg, pharma gets millions upon millions given to them for their research by both the government AND the private sector. What in the actual fuck are you talking about? How long has insulin been a thing? They still paying for the research for that?? ??

 So,  I don't know if you understand how this works.  That's that before you start let's clear up a few misconceptions I think you have.

 

 Number 1. I definitely believe that medications have exorbitant prices, I would go so far as to say that it is unfair prices. On this we do not disagree.

 

Number 2. We are speaking in relative terms. What I mean by that, is what is outrageous 2 one person May not necessarily be outrageous 2 another. If we are generally speaking here, which I do believe we are speaking in generalities I think you need to be far more educated on how these things come to market, before we can say the prices are insane, at least insane and a relative term.

 Number 3. Just because I recognize there is a problem, it is not put the onus on me to figure it out. Likewise, when something is a terrible plan, and I can see the plan is bad, just because I have not devoted my life to coming up with a better one does not mean that there is not one.  That said for your entertainment, I am certain I have a better one, and I will reveal this to the TGP masses when I am on a computer, and talk to text won't make me look like a fool.

With those out of the way, here we go here in insulin has been around for a long time, no argument from me.  That being said pama generally speaking how the pharmaceutical industry works, is that they take Their biggest sellers, which are generally life saving medications, and they bill the hospital at an exorbitant price, who then passes it on to the consumer, who was covered by the original insurance. This is not done just so pharma can make a buck, however, to act like that is not a motive would be naive. If they have a big seller, even if it is 60 years old, they are going to continue to sell those at high prices so that way they can continue to fund research and development for new products. It is intelligent business. You're not going to put billions of dollars into research for a product that is not going to Pan out, and hope that it does so you can pay for your research. That's how you end up bankrupt, what you're going to do is take your big sellers comic continue to have a high mark up, and pay for your research that way so that way if the drug does not Pan out, you lose nothing but research and development. They are using drugs that they know work like insulin to fund the drugs that may not work. Now obviously they could lower prices and make it more affordable for everyone.  That said just screaming that they charge too much without knowing how these things happen Is pretty baseless.

I have rained down hell on Pharma bro and I'm pretty sure I have even said so on here a few times. Price gouging just to do it is a problem that again has a solution...and get this you dont have to raise taxes. I am all for a fair price, but the price of innovation can be high.

We have problems sure, but acting like Medicare for all and single payer would fix it is crazy. Medicare for all would make it worse in much the same way the military overpays for a hammer.

There is a much simpler way to let the market make it better but let's not do that. It is the bougesie class, those filthy people who made a good life for themselves...their who we need to get to pay for thousands of peoples healthcare while reducing their own standard of care it's a crock of shit.

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The military overpays for hammers and stupid shit like that but the private sector is full of waste too. Idk man, I think it should be challenged that the private sector is more efficient than the public sector. 

30 cents of every medical dollar goes to unnecessary healthcare, deceitful paperwork, fraud and other waste. The $750 billion in annual waste is more than the Pentagon budget and more than enough to care for every American who lacks health insurance… Most of the waste came from unnecessary services ($210 billion annually), excess administrative costs ($190 billion) and inefficient delivery of care ($130 billion)

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Precisely and you dont need to raise taxes to fix that which is actually already being fixed. I'll leave with a nugget to ponder until I can sit at a computer. What if we limited medical patents to 10 years. Imagine if you couldn't renew a patent on your technology after ten years so you can gouge for a decade after that the secret is out and everyone can copy it. Capitalism in a true form and no taxes raised and making medicine dirt cheap.

 You guys remember when high definition flat screen T.V.'s were $4000 or $5000?  The technology became widespread and available and now you can pick one up for under 500 bucks. Imagine what would happen if the next life saving medication were produced come and we gave them 10 years to recoup the cost of development, and then said nobody gets to renew the patent, this is in the public domain. Now all of the sudden 600 companies are making the same thing common and only divider between who's gonna make the sale and who's not as who can sell it at the lowest price. You take away these companies patents common you take away their power. And you don't have to take $1 from anyone.

 

 That is why this situation irritates me so badly. All that happens is you hear people like Bernie get on TV and blow via about how we have to take away from the rich. The truth is we don't have to take a dollar away from anyone. We just have to be smarter about how we do things, which is obviously something that our lawmakers have no interest in.  Bernie's a lifelong politician, who fell ass backwards into the one of  The most heinous professions in the country, and yet he wants to take away money from people who went to school for over 16 years commenter far more qualified to do their job than he ever will be to do his. I don't see him talking about cutting Congress salary? I don't see him talking about all the bureaucratic handwringing that goes on there that screws the everyday common man, because he knows hes just as complicit in that is anyone else.

 That's what these politicians do common that gets me so discouraged when I see my fellow Americans fall for it. They give you these craps solutions common they make you choose from the worst one. Or at least they make you choose the best of the worst. I just laid out 2 things, and I've got like 7 more and we couldn't have the greatest technology, the greatest access, or at least far superior to what we have now and can rival anybody on the planet, but yet we don't hear any of our lawmakers talking about this because everyone's bought and paid for, even Saint Bernie.

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16 hours ago, Omerta said:

You are correct with me being on my phone. The galaxy S10 is the worst phone for that I have ever had.

 So I understand, that I have probably been more fortunate than others in that regard, that being said it wasn't always the case maybe. I understand what it's like to sit in an emergency Room with crap insurance praying you don't screw yourself.

 When I see news stories, of people in foreign countries who are doing everything they can to come over the United States, because this is their last hope of saving their child, that carries a lot of weight with me. Now I understand not everybody is going to have access to this, but I also don't think passing taxes down to the middle class, which is how I think this would play out, only to have less profit based incentives for medical innovation is in a very big win.

 I think another thing people forget when they accuse big pharmaceutical companies of price gouging, is that all of the research, development, testing, and bureaucracy that it took to bring that medicine to market was extremely expensive and they weren't turning a dime from it, because they couldn't sell it. So yes they price gouge a large amount of their drugs so that way they can recoup the costs of all the research, so I think that is something we should be considering. Now would it be nice to have these things cheaper site it would, but I think this is one of the necessary evils you pay for innovation.

 As to  Medications I think this is an interesting topic. Because in your insulin example, pharmaceutical companies are getting accused of not bringing enough to market so that way they can manipulate laws of supply and demand, but on the flip side they were overprescribing the more expensive heroin, the one they make all the profit off of that, that said when you look at the amount of profit they make off with insulin versus heroin, due the manufacturing processes the differential price / profit margin on both are not very great, both could be a cash cow,  So why would they only choose to make profit off of one? I think this is just more of a function of hearing anecdotal evidence from a certain study common at not being a widespread pandemic.

 I have much more to say on  this topic, but I will wait until I get on my computer,  when I don't have to edit as much.

I will say we need some change to this process of insurance,  but I think Medicare for all is a REALLY bad idea, at least the on Bernie wants.

I concur that for the first seven years they can charge what they want- after that there should be a generic. That is the way the marketplace is designed to work. But for insulin specifically, the makers have got around that by constantly making small changes and re-submitting a patent for their insulin. For the last sixty years. That's insane. 

Edit: Your last post doesn't really make sense. We already limit medical patents for drugs to 7 years, just like anything else. Insulin makers have gotten around this, and they would just get around your 10 year limit in the same way.

The profit margin is incredible. It is absolutely not a small margin. They made the mistake once of letting us access this information. (This example only holds in Kentucky.) The insulin Enbrel is something that the insurance companies charge the patient $5,000 a box for. (This would be the standard- before deductibles have been paid- co-pay for people on Medicare, specifically). The price without insurance is $6,000 a box. (One box = one month of pens.)

The price it costs to produce? $340 a box. Now, this is obviously not counting the money required to get it through testing and everything, which is a sunk cost. Which is why we have 7 years for people to make money off their invention. After that, the patent should expire and others can make a generic that does not have to go through nearly as much rigorous testing, and thus can be made for cheaper overall costs. But the profit margin is insane on insulin. The pharmaceutical companies are, by and large, some of the largest profit makers in the US. It's a huge industry with huge profit, this is not like owning a restaurant and barely having stuff left over for yourself. They are absolutely price-gouging the American public and its past time for it to stop.

Edited by Thanatos

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