So now, KD>Howard?

[DonovanMcnabb for H.O.F 2,241]

How exactly are offense and scoring not he same thing when you drop 30 in every game? It's not like we're talking about JR Smith here. We're talking about Kevin Durant. EVERY PART OF HIS GAME IS GREAT.

 

KD over Howard is factual, not an opinion. Dwight Howard always has the potential to hurt his team with his poor free throw shooting and mediocre post game, not to mention his flaming temper that always has him in the league lead with technical fouls.

 

DMac, stop trolling.

 

 

You come on here calling every part of KD's game great and I'm the one trolling?

 

Aside from the 30 points he scores on high efficiency let's examine the rest of his greatness.

 

his 3.5 to 3.8 A:TO ratio makes him a GREAT passer/playmaker and demonstrates his GREAT skills with the ball in his hands right?

 

That .6 offensive rebounds per game, demonstrates how much of a GREAT offensive rebounder he is right?

 

Because when you determine how great an offensive player he is, you look at his points+efficiency and say throw out the rest, he's a great offensive player!

 

LBJ is a great offensive player, Durant is not. He's a great scorer.

 

And how about on defense?

 

His ability to to be good iso perimeter defender makes him a GREAT defender right?

 

And the great defensive instincts and ability to bend his hips and footwork and when guys blow past him and he starts reaching and poking as they get to the basket, makes him a great defender right?

 

And let's not forget about the 7.9 defensive rebounds per games that he puts up, GREATNESS! Am I right?

 

Yea. I'm trolling. It's called being a prisoner of the moment. Anyone who thinks KD's game impacts a team as much as Howard is in that category.

 

You put a healthy Howard on your team and you have an automatic playoff/ 50 win team. There is only ONE other player you can say that about playing in the league right now. And that's Lebron James. And that's not an opinion, that's a FACT.

Edited July 8, 2012 by DonovanMcnabb for H.O.F

[blotsfan 2,112]

Jeez this got heated. As of right now I would take Durant over Howard, but I don't think the difference between the two is as much as anyone seems to think.

[butta54 371]

It's called being a prisoner of the moment. Anyone who thinks KD's game impacts a team as much as Howard is in that category.You put a healthy Howard on your team and you have an automatic playoff/ 50 win team. There is only ONE other player you can say that about playing in the league right now. And that's Lebron James. And that's not an opinion, that's a FACT.

 

False False False....Howard won't always carry your team, just like when the Magic weren't all making their threes the team fell apart and even though he does give you a great chance to improve to sit here and say that adding a Durant to your team wouldn't give you a chance at the playoffs is silly.

 

And prisoner of the moment statement doesn't define me whatsoevcer. As I said in my original post I felt he has been the better player for years. And to that fact I take you back to the day he was drafted and I swore up and down that the Blazers would be sorry for not taking Durant. Not because of the injury issues with Oden (which I had no idea about at the time), but for the fact that Durant I felt had the potential to be the bigger playmaker and game changer. What does this have to do with anything? This in my mind is a fact...if he stayed healthy Oden would be the best center in the game right now. Now I'm not going to get into this debate on here the facts just are he had more size than Howard even as a rookie, he had a way more advanced post offense, and his defense was up there too before even being in the NBA. When he did play some games he banged the centers in the league on offense and defense. So knowing all those skills and taking out injury I still felt Durant is the guy. And it almost comes down to position and which is more valued cause honestly having a great center is a commodity in these league which is fine, but having the great SF or SG have gotten teams the rings. You NEED big man to play big to get there, but at the end of the day it's not them that are driving it home in today's NBA.

 

So I wouldn't call myself a prisoner of the moment or a troll. I just am trying to answer the one simple question that was asked earlier.

[DonovanMcnabb for H.O.F 2,241]

False False False....Howard won't always carry your team, just like when the Magic weren't all making their threes the team fell apart and even though he does give you a great chance to improve to sit here and say that adding a Durant to your team wouldn't give you a chance at the playoffs is silly.

 

And prisoner of the moment statement doesn't define me whatsoevcer. As I said in my original post I felt he has been the better player for years. And to that fact I take you back to the day he was drafted and I swore up and down that the Blazers would be sorry for not taking Durant. Not because of the injury issues with Oden (which I had no idea about at the time), but for the fact that Durant I felt had the potential to be the bigger playmaker and game changer. What does this have to do with anything? This in my mind is a fact...if he stayed healthy Oden would be the best center in the game right now. Now I'm not going to get into this debate on here the facts just are he had more size than Howard even as a rookie, he had a way more advanced post offense, and his defense was up there too before even being in the NBA. When he did play some games he banged the centers in the league on offense and defense. So knowing all those skills and taking out injury I still felt Durant is the guy. And it almost comes down to position and which is more valued cause honestly having a great center is a commodity in these league which is fine, but having the great SF or SG have gotten teams the rings. You NEED big man to play big to get there, but at the end of the day it's not them that are driving it home in today's NBA.

 

So I wouldn't call myself a prisoner of the moment or a troll. I just am trying to answer the one simple question that was asked earlier.

 

 

Dwight Howard is dominant enough on the boards, and on defense, and he draws enough attention on the scoring end to open up major space for his teammates. That, with an average cast, as long as they knock down relatively open shots with any form of consistency, and are even below average perimeter defenders, you'll have an automatic playoff birth team. The crazy thing is that even with a team full of streaky inconsistent shooters, the Magic are still in the playoffs every year.

 

If Durant isn't scoring efficient points on good volume, he isn't helping the team nearly in enough other areas to be more impactful than a Dwight Howard.

 

You really think that with the Durant of the last three years, who only truly impacts games with his scoring, was in Orlando, with the roster Howard has had to work with + an average/below average center, that team would go as far as Howard has taken them? Yea... No. No single two wway perimeter player, especially with above average ball handling skills would be able to carry a team like that. Even if they do average 30 points a game on 50%.

Edited July 8, 2012 by DonovanMcnabb for H.O.F

[BwareDWare94 723]

Low offensive rebound numbers for Durant? Yeah, because he's a four or five battling it out down low. That statistic is REALLY important to the quality of his game.

 

Just stop saying that Durant doesn't have a great offensive game, DMac. That argument alone nullifies the rest of what you're trying to say.

 

7 boards a game is a pretty damn good for a 3. Most threes don't average 10 or anything like that. C'mon, man.

 

Dwight Howard doesn't guarantee anything but 10+ technicals and a nightly double double. He needs the players around him as much as every other star.

Edited July 8, 2012 by BwareDWare94

[56AceInDaPlace 110]

 

 

Just stop saying that Durant isn't have a great offensive game, DMac. That argument alone nullifies the rest of what you're trying to say.

 

Well said.

Edited July 8, 2012 by 56AceInDaPlace

[DonovanMcnabb for H.O.F 2,241]

Low offensive rebound numbers for Durant? Yeah, because he's a four or five battling it out down low. That statistic is REALLY important to the quality of his game.

 

Just stop saying that Durant isn't have a great offensive game, DMac. That argument alone nullifies the rest of what you're trying to say.

 

7 boards a game is a pretty damn good for a 3. Most threes don't average 10 or anything like that. C'mon, man.

 

Dwight Howard doesn't guarantee anything but 10+ technicals and a nightly double double. He needs the players around him as much as every other star.

 

He is not a great offensive player because their's more to offense than scoring points. And he excels at none of them. When you make a claim that a player is a great offensive player that means that his overall offensive game compares well with other players who fit under that category. That is not the case with Durant.

 

Being a great scorer and then being average to below average in every other category doesn't make you a great offensive player.

 

And the position he plays is irrelevant. He's a 6'9" (6'10") forward with a elite NBA wingspan averaging .6 OReb, their are guards who average more than him. Same thing with his defensive rebounds, the position he plays doesn't mean a damn thing, 7 rebounds is impressive for a 3 normally because they don't normally have elite size or length, that isn't the case with Durant. Either way, he is far from a great rebounder.

 

And way to underrate Howard, he doesn't guarantee anything? That argument alone nullifies everything.

 

You are telling me that a great center who puts up 21 points with high efficiency night in night out in the paint, is the definition of a great team and individual defense, is among the league's best in rebounds and blocks every year needs great teammates like... A great perimeter player who's impact to a team relies mostly on being able to score efficiently?

Edited July 8, 2012 by DonovanMcnabb for H.O.F

[seanbrock 1,684]

KD is a great defender and an amazing scorer. Howard is an amazing defender and a great scorer. I'd say that it's more of a tossup, but if I had to pick one, it'd be KD. KD is humble and will take over at the end of a game and will hit game winning shots. Howard is a prima donna who can also take over, but he's not a threat from everywhere like KD is.

I agree with Zack but I'd like to add to it. Dwight Howard has his flaws offensively and he needs to improve them but I'd say that Kevin Durant could afford to be more selfish at crucial times. I think it's a toss up until Durant becomes a touch more agressive as well.

[BwareDWare94 723]

I give up on you, DMac. Not because I don't think you make good points or anything, but because this is getting too heated. I think we have to agree to disagree.

[DonovanMcnabb for H.O.F 2,241]

I give up on you, DMac. Not because I don't think you make good points or anything, but because this is getting too heated. I think we have to agree to disagree.

 

haha... On that we can agree on...

[Favre4Ever+ 4,476]

There is a fundamental flaw in your argument Dmac.

 

Durant is a PHENOMENAL rebounder. He's tall, long, out jumps most people on the court and just flat out goes after the basketball. He led his team in rebounds.... lol

 

Now, yes.... A large majority of those boards are on the defensive side... But why is it that he doesn't get offensive rebounds? Is it really because he doesn't have the skill set? Or is it because he isn't in situations that provide him to grab a bunch of boards offensively?

 

More times than not, Durant is further from the basket than anyone else on the OKC squad. Unless he is driving, he has no chance to grab those boards. And when he does drive, he is making the shot more times than not... Also limiting his offensive board totals.

 

The Thunder don't NEED him that close to the basket as frequently as it would take for him to be a real force on the offensive glass. Let the guys like Perkins, Ibaka, and Collison worry about those boards and let KD get back on defense and dominate back there instead.

 

You are discounting Durant as a player because of how not only he plays, but how the Thunder as a team play and operate.

 

That's not fair. If the Thunder needed him to dominate the offensive glass, he very well could.

[DonovanMcnabb for H.O.F 2,241]

There is a fundamental flaw in your argument Dmac.

 

Durant is a PHENOMENAL rebounder. He's tall, long, out jumps most people on the court and just flat out goes after the basketball. He led his team in rebounds.... lol

 

Now, yes.... A large majority of those boards are on the defensive side... But why is it that he doesn't get offensive rebounds? Is it really because he doesn't have the skill set? Or is it because he isn't in situations that provide him to grab a bunch of boards offensively?

 

More times than not, Durant is further from the basket than anyone else on the OKC squad. Unless he is driving, he has no chance to grab those boards. And when he does drive, he is making the shot more times than not... Also limiting his offensive board totals.

 

The Thunder don't NEED him that close to the basket as frequently as it would take for him to be a real force on the offensive glass. Let the guys like Perkins, Ibaka, and Collison worry about those boards and let KD get back on defense and dominate back there instead.

 

You are discounting Durant as a player because of how not only he plays, but how the Thunder as a team play and operate.

 

That's not fair. If the Thunder needed him to dominate the offensive glass, he very well could.

 

Phenomenal?... idk about that... Especially when you consider that even his defensive rebounding rate isn't all that great when compared to the rest of the league.

 

OKC plays a lot of small ball basketball lineup with Harden+RW+KD+ sometimes Thabo where Ibaka and Perkins either both hit the bench or one hits the bench and not the other, or they are both on the bench and Collisson comes in. Which ends up with KD "playing the 4" on defense... It gets pretty easy to grab defensive boards when you are the longest player on a squad of guys who are all pretty much average rebounders (aside from Serge on the offensive glass).

 

And like I said, considering his size, even though I know he's a perimeter player first, .6 is still pretty bad offensively. Especially when you consider that he was 6th among SF with around 5 shot attempts at the rim a game, and was 3rd among SF with 2.1 attempts 3-9 ft from the basket... .6? Really?

 

When OKC faced MIA in the finals, every single game they lost, they were out rebounded, and KD has dome awful games on both end of the glass... Pretty sure he had 2 total one game, can't remember which one. If you are getting out rebounded so badly, I'm pretty sure if KD was capable of being some dominant glass eater Brooks would of asked him to grab more. KD is way too inconsistent on the boards to be considered dominant...

Edited July 9, 2012 by DonovanMcnabb for H.O.F

[Favre4Ever+ 4,476]

Phenomenal?... idk about that... Especially when you consider that even his defensive rebounding rate isn't all that great when compared to the rest of the league.

 

OKC plays a lot of small ball basketball lineup with Harden+RW+KD+ sometimes Thabo where Ibaka and Perkins either both hit the bench or one hits the bench and not the other, or they are both on the bench and Collisson comes in. Which ends up with KD "playing the 4" on defense... It gets pretty easy to grab defensive boards when you are the longest player on a squad of guys who are all pretty much average rebounders (aside from Serge on the offensive glass).

 

And like I said, considering his size, even though I know he's a perimeter player first, .6 is still pretty bad offensively. Especially when you consider that he was 6th among SF with around 5 shot attempts at the rim a game, and was 3rd among SF with 2.1 attempts 3-9 ft from the basket... .6? Really?

 

When OKC faced MIA in the finals, every single game they lost, they were out rebounded, and KD has dome awful games on both end of the glass... Pretty sure he had 2 total one game, can't remember which one. If you are getting out rebounded so badly, I'm pretty sure if KD was capable of being some dominant glass eater Brooks would of asked him to grab more. KD is way too inconsistent on the boards to be considered dominant...

 

Yes, he is a very good rebounder.. lol

 

He was above guys like Bosh and LBJ and behind all the elite guys like Howard, Cousins, Love, Bynum.. Etc etc.

 

Oh.. But what do those players have in common... Howard...Cousins...Love...Bynum. They play like directly under the rim. lmao. Shocking that guys who play the rim get more offensive boards while a guy who plays further from the rim has less.

 

And KD had nearly 5 shot attempts at the rim a game? You realize a shot attempt at the rim is like.. A dunk, layup, or a tip... How many of those shots is KD actually missing in order to grab a rebound? LMAO.

 

His shot attempts near the rim is also extremely misleading.... Because he isn't only able to grab offensive boards on his own shots.

 

A) he isn't going to miss those shots very often. And...

B) he doesn't play under the rim to grab the offensive boards from other players missing shots. After the shot goes up, he is reading to get back on D. Unless the ball takes a lucky bounce and winds up on the perimeter, he isn't going to get those boards.

 

The elite guys like Love, Bynum, and Howard have the size to get hem.. But they are also in position to grab the missed shots that their teammates throw up.

 

And you don't need to preach to me about the Thunder getting absolutely DESTROYED down low and on the boards. Go read the Finals threads, I was saying the same exact thing and I was pretty much the only one saying it.

 

I still contest that if Brooks wanted KD to crash the boards and play more physical down low that he could. I don't think he is asked to play like that or that type of style... So why are we expecting him to grab a bunch of offensive boards? It makes no sense.

 

It's like bashing Howard because he doesn't shoot 3s. Of course he doesn't shoot threes. Although, maybe that's a bad comparison.. Because Dwight can't shoot 3s while KD at least has the skill set to crash the glass.

Edited July 9, 2012 by Favre4Ever

[DonovanMcnabb for H.O.F 2,241]

KD is a better rebounder then LBJ and Bosh? Are you being serious? There is no way KD is a better rebounder then LBJ and Bosh. Lol. You can even make the argument that he isn't even a top 3-5 rebounder among SF.

 

Seems to me like your just making excuses to why he isn't a great rebounder.

 

The amount of makes he gets around the rim and close enough to the rim are also irrelevant, the fact of the matter is that he still spends time down their. Kobe Bryant is a guard, takes less shots around the rim then KD and even he is able to contribute 1 offensive rebound a game, there's no excuse for a guy who's 6'10 with almost a 7'5" wingspan to be a complete non factor on the offensive boards unless he literally lives on the perimeter, and never spends any time in the paint. None. Especially when he averages 38+ minutes a game.

 

There is no way in hell KD would be a great rebounder if he was in the low post more often because he doesn't have the aggression, or the bang to hang with guys down low. Like I said, if the guy is a great rebounder, he'd contribute consistently on the boards, especially when it gets tight and teams are fighting for every board.