Omerta+ 1,206 Posted July 2, 2013 I was thinking about this the other day, you know who is under appreciated. Charlie Batch. Most people when their starting QB goes down it is an ,"Oh we are so fucked." kind of thing. Well Ben is injured often (not saying he is made of glass) and it is one of those subconscious comforts to know that you have a backup that can step in for 4 or 5 games and win more than half of them. I know if Flacco goes down I dont know how I feel about Tyrod Taylor winning games. I like the kid just hasnt shown much yet. Batch it seems every time he comes down the steelers are just fine. It must be nice. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Omerta+ 1,206 Posted July 2, 2013 Steve Smith has to be the most underrated player on the Panthers roster. I accept that he is hardly under-the-radar but he is so much better than people realise. He is the best every-down deep threat in the NFL. He is great in the air, has ridiculous hands, is really fast and can make huge plays with the ball in his hands. He should have been All-pro in 2012. Certainly one of the best WRs in recent years. This man is not happy you said that. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KempBolt 498 Posted July 2, 2013 What about this guy? Alright, I'm intrigued- why is Julio Jones under appreciated? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bay 2,003 Posted July 2, 2013 Alright, I'm intrigued- why is Julio Jones under appreciated? No, no ,no. My mistake. Asking about where he ranks among deep threats. Should have quoted. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KempBolt 498 Posted July 2, 2013 No, no ,no. My mistake. Asking about where he ranks among deep threats. Should have quoted. Ah gotchya. My vote for the best pure deep threat is this guy: The fact that he and Sproles are no longer Chargers never gets easier to accept. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
monkey48 1 Posted July 2, 2013 This man is not happy you said that. CJ is the best WR in the NFL, I accept that unquestioningly. However, in terms of people to throw a deep-bomb to, I'd take Smith, just ask Ronde Barber. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
monkey48 1 Posted July 2, 2013 With regards to Steve Smith being the best deep-threat in the NFL, I recommend you to Ronde Barber: http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000168982/article/ronde-barber-steve-smith-toughest-receiver-to-cover. Jones, Johnson both good receivers, but not quite as good at getting open down-in, down-out. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KempBolt 498 Posted July 2, 2013 With regards to Steve Smith being the best deep-threat in the NFL, I recommend you to Ronde Barber: http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000168982/article/ronde-barber-steve-smith-toughest-receiver-to-cover. Jones, Johnson both good receivers, but not quite as good at getting open down-in, down-out. Honest question (because I'm curious)- if Smith is the league's preeminant deep threat, how would you explain his career YPR being 3 yards less than Jackson's (14.8 vs 17.8)? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bay 2,003 Posted July 2, 2013 (edited) What if Steve Smith had the good-great Philip Rivers for the middle of his career? 2001 - Chris Weinke was the starter. ( Smith didn't play much) 2002 - Rodney Peete was the starter 2003 - 2006 Jake Delhomme was the starter 2007 - was a mess of all kinds of QBs 2008 - Delhomme was back 2009 - Delhomme and Matt Moore split 2010 - Dear god... 2011 - Cam of course 2012 - Cam So, yeah... EDIT: 04 Smith was hurt Edited July 2, 2013 by Bay Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
monkey48 1 Posted July 2, 2013 Have you seen some of the guys he has had throwing to him? Jimmy Clausen! Even last year, his impact was limited by Chud's determined attempts to force him to run short routes. If you watch his tape from Cam's rookie year, he gets open deep almost every play. If used correctly (and when he isn't triple covered)then he is more effective than anybody else. About the triple coverage, due to our lack of another decent receiver, he is prevented from being as effective as he would be on other offences. I have seen plays from last year where opposing Ds leave Lafell uncovered an triple-team Smith. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AllYouNeedIsLovie 377 Posted July 2, 2013 Steve Smith is a monster. Believe me, as a Bucs fan, I have seen this guy torch us with some pretty awful QB's throwing him the ball. Even though he is a small guy, he has great speed, is a ridiculous jumper and can outmuscle a lot of DB's. I'm not sure I'd consider him the best deep threat in the game, but he is definitely up there. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KempBolt 498 Posted July 2, 2013 The QB play has truly been pretty abismal in CAR for most of his career. I just wanted to see what your reasoning would be. I still side with VJ as the best pure deep threat, but Smith is a solid choice too and the better all-around player regardless. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
monkey48 1 Posted July 2, 2013 Steve Smith is the most mentally tough player I've seen. If you watch him ru deep routes, he might not pull-off the most spectacular plays but, in terms of creating a consistent deep option, there is nobody even like as good as him. His ability to burn people with his speed on the outside whilst still being able to muscle his way out of man coverage and yet athletic enough to go up for the jump-ball.... There is nobody even remotely like Steve Smith. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KempBolt 498 Posted July 2, 2013 Steve Smith is the most mentally tough player I've seen. If you watch him ru deep routes, he might not pull-off the most spectacular plays but, in terms of creating a consistent deep option, there is nobody even like as good as him. His ability to burn people with his speed on the outside whilst still being able to muscle his way out of man coverage and yet athletic enough to go up for the jump-ball.... There is nobody even remotely like Steve Smith. Jackson's ability to beat double or even triple teams in various ways is what sets him apart for me. He can body up defensive backs and box them out of the catch, or simply outrun them with his long strides. And even when the defender is with him step-for-step, he's so good at high pointing the ball or laying out for the pass that he's not truly covered. I think Smith is better in the short and intermediate routes and after the catch, but I just haven't seen anyone lately as consistently dangerous as Jackson on the 9 route. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
monkey48 1 Posted July 2, 2013 I think what sets Smith apart for me is his ability to do what you described above (with a few size adjustments) but on a more reliable basis. Although Smith isn't targeted every down he is always facing double or triple teams (Jackson often does but a stronger Bucs receiving corps (I never thought I would say that phrase) allows him more time in solo man coverage)and yet always gets open. Jackson can make the big play in more style and maybe more dominantly, but Smith makes it more consistently. It's like Jerry Rice (Smith) and Randy Moss (Jackson). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dutch 874 Posted July 2, 2013 I think what sets Smith apart for me is his ability to do what you described above (with a few size adjustments) but on a more reliable basis. Although Smith isn't targeted every down he is always facing double or triple teams (Jackson often does but a stronger Bucs receiving corps (I never thought I would say that phrase) allows him more time in solo man coverage)and yet always gets open. Jackson can make the big play in more style and maybe more dominantly, but Smith makes it more consistently. It's like Jerry Rice (Smith) and Randy Moss (Jackson). Your use of parentheses utterly confused me :confused: Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Omerta+ 1,206 Posted July 3, 2013 Hold on just a second. Calvin Johnson does everything you guys just named. When it comes to who draws the most double and triple teams nobody compares to CJ. When it comes to who beats them the most, nobody compares to CJ. And with all due respect to Smith and V Jax, neither has the big play potential calvin does. Now if Steve Smith was born with the physical attributes that CJ was then we would be having a different discussion. VJax has it all except for the 4.3 speed johnson has. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KempBolt 498 Posted July 3, 2013 Hold on just a second. Calvin Johnson does everything you guys just named. When it comes to who draws the most double and triple teams nobody compares to CJ. When it comes to who beats them the most, nobody compares to CJ. And with all due respect to Smith and V Jax, neither has the big play potential calvin does. Now if Steve Smith was born with the physical attributes that CJ was then we would be having a different discussion. VJax has it all except for the 4.3 speed johnson has. This is basically true. Just gets boring when one guy is the best at almost everything. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Omerta+ 1,206 Posted July 3, 2013 Yeah it does, but to say he isnt is a discredit to him. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
monkey48 1 Posted July 3, 2013 had already stated that CJ was the best receiver in the NFL, but I think he does it in a different way to Smith and VJ. CJ is best used as an everywhere man whereas both Smith and Jackson are more pure deep-guys. CJ is very good deep but is more effective when used in other ways. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Omerta+ 1,206 Posted July 3, 2013 SO you are saying they are one trick ponies ? Cj can get deep better than both of them. So I guess if you mean by pure that is their niche than yeah I guess. And please tell me where CJ is used better, I am curious. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dutch 874 Posted July 3, 2013 No WR is more of a threat going deep than Calvin Johnson. No WR in the league sees the type of coverages that Calvin Johnson gets. It's really not even debatable. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
monkey48 1 Posted July 3, 2013 (edited) About coverages, Smith gets similar ones. Not because he is as good as CJ but because the Panthers have nobody else worth covering. There was a Lafell TD early on in the season where he is left open to run into space because there are 3 players covering Smith on a curl route, and this isn't unusual. In terms of offering a deep option, CJ can do it in more style and in a more dominant fashion, but he doesn't do it every down like Smith does. Watch the tape on Johnson ad again on Smith (though probably not from last year as he was misused by Chud), CJ makes some epic plays, truly amazing, but he also gets caught in coverage sometimes. Smith just doesn't, he always finds a way to offer a TD pass. What limited his number of TDs last year (as opposed to previous years) was his use by Chud and limited pocket stability due to numerous injuries. Edited July 3, 2013 by monkey48 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KempBolt 498 Posted July 3, 2013 (edited) How about this: who is the best WR in the league at "X" besides Megatron? Because, with a few exceptions, Johnson is better than the rest of the field at everything. Edited July 3, 2013 by KempBolt Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
