Top 10 RB

[Dutch 874]

I think you misunderstood context of his post F4E. You implied that if you aren't "wow'ed" by Charles, you are just looking at stats. Bjorn is saying that his stat sheet is still something to "wow" at because of his incredible numbers / stats.

Edited June 22, 2014 by Dutch

[Favre4Ever+ 4,476]

Ah, good call. It was kinda bad wording in my original post. Made it seem like looking at the stats were somehow unimpressive, which isn't exactly what I was going for. It happens..

[Glanvilles Grits 142]

The only two seasons where Charles hasn't put up great or elite numbers were his rookie season and the season he tore his ACL. Lets stop acting like he's just another running back. Or some stereotypical scatback.

 

I'm not saying he's just another running back. He's top 3 in the league. I am saying though that he's NOT Adrian Peterson, he's not even on the same level as Peterson. In fact, one could actually argue that Chris Johnson is in the same level of backs as Jamaal Charles and McCoy now. I feel incredibly against saying that, but I'm pretty sure I could if you look at the way Chris Johnson has run when he has actually gotten some line play like Charles has got on a consistent basis.

 

 

How you guys feel that anyone is on the same level as Peterson is beyond me at this point. This was never a discussion to discredit Charles' ridiculous playmaking ability, but it's a discussion to put Charles on a different plain than Peterson. Peterson is the guy that's going to go down in history as one of if not the greatest (by the time hes done) back in the NFL. Charles is going to go down as one of the best of his decade, that's where the buck stops for Charles though.

Edited June 22, 2014 by Rain Man

[Dutch 874]

 

In fact, one could actually argue that Chris Johnson is in the same level of backs as Jamaal Charles and McCoy now.

 

[Cherry 1,302]

 

Younger Chris Johnson, of course.

[Glanvilles Grits 142]

Peterson

McCoy

Charles

 

I can easily easily argue that everyone else is battling for that #4 position at this point, yes that includes Chris Johnson. You guys can over look Johnson all you want, but he's a bad product of a stellar season so early in his career. IMO.

 

 

I will say this though, the fact that Charles came back from the same injury as Peterson and (while not 2000 yards) he ran for 1500 yards and a shit ton of receiving, he's a freak. Those 3 guys are planted solidly at the top.

 

Still stands though, Charles nor McCoy are on the same ground as AP. I've yet to read a legitimate argument as to why Charles is better than Peterson as some people are saying. It could be as easy as explaining that Charles is an absolute NASTY blocker and he's on the field for over 97% of the Chiefs total offensive snaps for an entire year.

Shoot, now I'm helping the opposition.

[DonovanMcnabb for H.O.F 2,241]

Aside from me stating all the way back on page 3 that over the last two years, AP and Charles have accounted for nearly the same amount of total yards, YPC.

 

Or, despite the fact that AP is easily the best runner of the three, Charles is better at everything else.

 

You're right, there is no argument for anybody being ahead of AP.

Edited June 23, 2014 by DonovanMcnabb for H.O.F

[KempBolt 498]

1. Adrian Peterson

 

2. Jamaal Charles

 

3. Lesean McCoy

 

4. Matt Forte

 

5. Marshawn Lynch

 

6. Demarco Murray

 

7. Eddie Lacy

 

8. C.J. Spiller

 

9. Ryan Mathews

 

10. Giovani Bernard

 

Charles made me eat all of the crow.

Edited June 24, 2014 by KempBolt

[Glanvilles Grits 142]

Aside from me stating all the way back on page 3 that over the last two years, AP and Charles have accounted for nearly the same amount of total yards, YPC.

 

Or, despite the fact that AP is easily the best runner of the three, Charles is better at everything else.

 

You're right, there is no argument for anybody being ahead of AP.

 

Two years doesn't dethrone Adrian Peterson.. That's just silly. I think Peterson is going to disprove people who say he can't catch the ball this year in Norvs offense.

 

Also, TD totals are a complete landslide by Peterson. Since 2009, AP has scored 68 rushing TD. Charles, 29.

[Cherry 1,302]

1. Adrian Peterson

 

2. Jamaal Charles

 

3. Lesean McCoy

 

4. Matt Forte

 

5. Marshawn Lynch

 

6. Demarco Murray

 

7. Eddie Lacy

 

8. C.J. Spiller

 

9. Ryan Mathews

 

10. Giovani Bernard

 

Charles made me eat all of the crow.

Mathews over Gio? Also, Spiller being so high is a surprise to me.

[KempBolt 498]

Mathews over Gio? Also, Spiller being so high is a surprise to me.

I'm high on Spiller's ability when healthy. Maybe higher than most.

 

And I'd say the burden of proof is far more on the side of whoever says that Bernard is better than Mathews. He was a more productive receiver last year because Woodhead took those snaps from Mathews (with good reason), but Ryan is pretty clearly the superior runner.

[DonovanMcnabb for H.O.F 2,241]

 

Two years doesn't dethrone Adrian Peterson.. That's just silly. I think Peterson is going to disprove people who say he can't catch the ball this year in Norvs offense.

 

Also, TD totals are a complete landslide by Peterson. Since 2009, AP has scored 68 rushing TD. Charles, 29.

 

TDs is an extremely weak argument. It's a situational stat.

 

Only reason I used two years is because Charles missed just about the entire season in 2011. But, guess who had the better numbers across the board outside of TDs in 2010?

[Cherry 1,302]

1. Jamaal Charles

 

2. LeSean McCoy

 

3. Adrian Peterson

 

4. Eddie Lacy

 

5. Marshawn Lynch

 

6. Matt Forte

 

7. Reggie Bush

 

8. Alfred Morris

 

9. Giovani Bernard

 

10. Andre Ellington

 

 

Took another look at the stats. Charles has so many fucking receptions. AP is a better legitimate running back, but Charles has the all-around better game.

Edited June 25, 2014 by Chernobyl426

[Glanvilles Grits 142]

1. Jamaal Charles

 

2. LeSean McCoy

 

3. Adrian Peterson

 

4. Eddie Lacy

 

5. Marshawn Lynch

 

6. Matt Forte

 

7. Reggie Bush

 

8. Alfred Morris

 

9. Giovani Bernard

 

10. Andre Ellington

 

 

Took another look at the stats. Charles has so many fucking receptions. AP is a better legitimate running back, but Charles has the all-around better game.

 

How is receptions and receiving yardage a consideration when the coaching staff didn't even attempt to use AP in the passing game? In fact, the Vikings never use their backs in the receiving game. Every running back that has ever had Reid as a head coach has done well catching out of the backfield. Charles has always had better receiving game, but his stats last year were inflated thanks to Reid and Alex Smith being afraid to actually throw to his RECEIVERS. I don't really take receiving game as a threat to knocking AP.

 

I'd much rather hear about Jamaal Charles' nasty blocking. Which, btw, he is nasty at. If anything puts him up with AP for me, it would be that.

Edited June 25, 2014 by Rain Man

[Cherry 1,302]

 

How is receptions and receiving yardage a consideration when the coaching staff didn't even attempt to use AP in the passing game? In fact, the Vikings never use their backs in the receiving game. Every running back that has ever had Reid as a head coach has done well catching out of the backfield. Charles has always had better receiving game, but his stats last year were inflated thanks to Reid and Alex Smith being afraid to actually throw to his RECEIVERS. I don't really take receiving game as a threat to knocking AP.

 

I'd much rather hear about Jamaal Charles' nasty blocking. Which, btw, he is nasty at. If anything puts him up with AP for me, it would be that.

Charles had more receptions than any Vikings WR or TE.

 

This years AP vs. Charles? Charles.

 

Last years AP vs Charles? AP.

[Dutch 874]

Charles had more receptions than any Vikings WR or TE.

 

This years AP vs. Charles? Charles.

 

Last years AP vs Charles? AP.

 

Matte Forte had more receptions, receiving yards, rushing yards, and TDs than Eddie Lacy and you have Eddie Lacy higher than Forte. That is if you are strictly going by looking at stats.

[Cherry 1,302]

 

Matte Forte had more receptions, receiving yards, rushing yards, and TDs than Eddie Lacy and you have Eddie Lacy higher than Forte. That is if you are strictly going by looking at stats.

I'm not doing 100% by stats, but in the case of Charles vs. Peterson it is pretty significant.

[Milla4Prez63 678]

I like Doug Martin's chances of getting back on these lists if he stays healthy, people forgot how good he was in 2012 (AD and Megatron were the only players with more yards from scrimmage that year). The entire team was a mess last year, having an offensive line that was falling apart as well as a QB and HC whose careers were imploding before our very eyes didn't make things easier as well.

[DonovanMcnabb for H.O.F 2,241]

I really don't get why this is even being argued. AP is one of the most physically gifted athletes the NFL has ever had. He's one of the most physically gifted athletes to ever play college football.

 

The fact that he isn't, and has never been used at either level the same way Charles has been used in his career as a receiver despite AP's physical prowess and gifts with the ball in his hands tells us all we need to know about how good a receiver he is.

[Dutch 874]

The fact that he isn't, and has never been used at either level the same way Charles has been used in his career as a receiver despite AP's physical prowess and gifts with the ball in his hands tells us all we need to know about how good a receiver he is.

 

The NFL proves your theory wrong every year... Each season there is a NFL player that is forced/introduced into a new scheme/system due to coaching or personnel changes and has to adjust and learn to do something new that he has never done before. Robert Mathis becoming a stand up 3-4 outside linebacker, Patrick Willis going from a 4-3 to a 3-4, Ben Roethlisberger quick short passing game with Todd Haley, John Abraham from a 4-3 to a 3-4, and many more that I can't think of on the top of my head. Just because he hasn't been used in that role doesn't mean he isn't capable. That line of thinking is a fallacy.

Edited June 26, 2014 by Dutch

[DonovanMcnabb for H.O.F 2,241]

You are talking about a literal change in scheme. All I've talked about is being used more as a receiver, even if it means out of the backfield.

[Glanvilles Grits 142]

Jamaal Charles saw a hug percentage of receptions come from wr position last year.

 

Also I'm pretty sure that Minnesotas ground game never really called for a receiving back since like 08. Norv Turner will show you AP catching this year

[DonovanMcnabb for H.O.F 2,241]

Again, the point is that if AP was above average as a route runner, pass catcher, etc, he'd be used more often in that role then he currently is being used.

 

I'm not comparing them by production, but by skills. Charles has always been utilized as a receiver, etc, because of his skills in that department. AP hasn't, because it isn't a strong suite of his game.

[Dutch 874]

You are talking about a literal change in scheme. All I've talked about is being used more as a receiver, even if it means out of the backfield.

 

The point is being asked to do something that you aren't normally asked to do. You can't say just because someone isn't utilized in "this" type of way that they aren't capable of it.

[KempBolt 498]

Peterson's career YPC # of 8.2 is only .7 below Charles who comes in at 8.9.

 

And that's out of a 206 catch sample size.

 

But we'll have more clarity on this soon. RB's catch a lot of passes in a Norv Turner offense.