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Trump Regime thread.

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Russia is run the way the Republican party leaders wish the US was run. Not that surprising to see that they're kindred spirits.

 

I think we need to keep in mind before any kind of trial as far as Russiagate goes.

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This is what scares me about the whole Russia hysteria.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.politico.com/magazine/amp/story/2018/07/16/putin-russia-trump-2016-pearl-harbor-219015

 

This isn't just some journalist. There have been leaders in the Democratic party calling this an act of war and demanding action from the president. Russia and the US have been hacking each other from the moment it was possible and I would bet the CIA hacks everyone including it's friends.

 

Oh yeah, remember this? Lol but a spearphishing campaign is an act of war? Huh? Lol

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2015/07/03/politics/germany-media-spying-obama-administration/index.html

 

I don't think blots and Than are advocating for war but it's pretty likely to be the end result if this goes down the way you guys are hoping it will.

 

I think for those that support the progressive movement it's important that Clinton lost on her own merrits. If Clinton/Pelosi/Schumer are proven to have a losing strategy I think it opens the door a lot more for an Ocasio-Cortez. This has been getting us away from super delegates and big money donors. I don't think this movement is as powerful without Trump, personally but it's not a popular point of view so maybe I'm an asshole and 100% wrong lol

Edited by seanbrock

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It absolutely is an act of war to interfere with our elections and install a person they wanted to be President. If you read the indictment- which I shall link here- there is a lot more to it.

 

It's one you completely ignore as being an act of war as far as responding in kind, because war between Russia and the US would be catastrophic and potentially world-ending, but lets not mince words here. If all this is proven true, if Putin and Russia conspired with Trump to get him elected, that is nothing less than an act of treason by Trump and his campaign and an act of war by Putin and Russia.

 

I also agree that the progressive movement takes a blow if Trump didn't beat Clinton without Russian interference. The truth may be inconvenient for the political cause we want to see triumph in the end, however.

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Idk, I still think that the leaked emails were a good thing. A lot of it was confirmed my Donna Brazille.

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Sean, man, what does it take to convince you? Who else is Organization 1? Who released emails in July and August specifically designed to hurt the Clinton campaign? Wikileaks is in cahoots with the Kremlin, Mueller just fucking confirmed it. Sure, some of the things they said might be true, that's how a good propaganda machine works. But everything that was released is now suspect.

 

The entire damn thing- emails and all- was set up by Vladimir Putin and the Kremlin in order to help Trump and hurt Clinton- without his knowledge, possibly, though I find that a LONG stretch to make, personally- and now Trump refuses to rule out handing over the former US ambassador to Russia to Putin for "questioning" over a non-existent crime Putin and the KGB just made up out of thin air.

 

At best, Trump is in love with an authoritarian dictator who routinely has his political foes and mere reporters murdered because he doesn't agree with them. Putin is a horrible man. At worst, Trump is directly under his thumb, either because Putin has something on him, or because he simply is fine working for him.

Edited by Thanatos

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Did you ever see Snowden? If spying and hacking are acts of war, then we would probably be at war with every country in the world. Also, like I said, I'm glad the leak came out regardless of the source. This probably wouldn't be possible if these people were using secured emails.

 

I say if we respond it should be in the same kind of way. Releasing information Russia/Putin don't want out there. I'd really be in favor of them going back and fourth airing out each other's dirty laundry. That would actually benefit the PEOPLE of America AND Russia.

Edited by seanbrock
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Did you ever see Snowden? If spying and hacking are acts of war, then we would probably be at war with every country in the world. Also, like I said, I'm glad the leak came out regardless of the source. This probably wouldn't be possible if these people were using secured emails.

 

 

This is the biggest thing that bothers me... We do the same sorts of things to dozens of countries around the world every single day -- including Russia. This whole thing is par for the course. Doesn't make it 'right' but the punishment should fit the crime and I like your suggestion.

 

This whole story is so hypocritical. We as a country as very hypocritical.

 

Focus on this (relatively) nothing Russa story while we have dark money trying to stop Michigan voters from fucking gerrymandering in the ass. Focus on Russia while, domestically we LITERALLY RIG OUR OWN ELECTIONS with no punishments.

 

But yeah, Russia is the problem. lol

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This is the biggest thing that bothers me... We do the same sorts of things to dozens of countries around the world every single day -- including Russia. This whole thing is par for the course. Doesn't make it 'right' but the punishment should fit the crime and I like your suggestion.

 

This whole story is so hypocritical. We as a country as very hypocritical.

Focus on this (relatively) nothing Russa story while we have dark money trying to stop Michigan voters from fucking gerrymandering in the ass. Focus on Russia while, domestically we LITERALLY RIG OUR OWN ELECTIONS with no punishments.

But yeah, Russia is the problem. lol

Exactly what you just said. This thing goes on for every develop Nation, to every other developed Nation, on the planet. We are no exception, nor is Russia, nor France, nor Germany common or Italy, nor Japan, nor China, so basically the rest of the globe. You absolutely nailed it with that fact.

 

I also absolutely loved the point you made about the hypocrisy of our country. Liberals are all in a tizzy right now because Donald Trump did something that looks like rigging an election, however Hillary Clinton can rig an election for the DNC and nobody even remotely thinks about treason. The exact same thing is happening right now, Trump may have had some ties with Russia, none of which has really definitively been proven by something we can read, although I doubt it ever will, that's how these things work. Just as the Republicans were throwing all that mud on Hillary, they turn around and get some mud on themselves and now liberals want to talk about trees and, while Republicans were trying to talk about crooked Hillary, but I don't ever recall treason. Not that that matters, that's kind of a trivial point considering Donald Trump will literally never get convicted of treason. All I'm really saying is that both sides have done their fair share of election rigging, everybody does their fair share of spying, it's just with the other guy does it it's a problem.

 

elections are not one on moral or social issues anymore, they have not been for a while. Elections these days are one off the backs of how much money can a candidate raise, and how much worse can the other guy look. I guess you could throw a third in there and say that we vote with our wallets now, because we damn sure don't vote with our conscience. When you look at any issue that was brought up in any of the debates every single one of them centered around honey, even the social justice platform was about money. It was about if we give X group a whole bunch of free stuff, and why group can also benefit from this free stuff, as long as he is the only one who has to pay for it because he has the most money, we are good. It always comes down to things like funding, so the average American no longer votes on issues they vote with their wallet.

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What Hillary did is nothing close to treason because she wasn't working for a hostile foreign nation. Despicable, yes. Treason, no.

 

Also, bringing up Hillary- again- is the last line of defense for Trump supporters when you realize you can't defend his actions. What Hillary did or did not do is irrelevant to this conversation because Hillary is not the president of the United States, Trump is.

 

I love how according to Ngata its just liberals who are in a tizzy because Trump may have sold us out to Russia. Newsflash bud, lots of conservatives are also "in a tizzy" over possible treason. What

Hillary did is wrong- morally- but unfortunately not legally. We need to fix the laws in order to fix that. What Trump did- if these accusations are true- is flat out treason.

 

Also, the amount of moving the goalposts in these types of arguments by the is too damn much. "There was no Russian collusion." "Well it may have been a little, but hey! Hillary's a bad person lets bring her up again!" "You know, America does this sort of thing all the time! Why are we upset about Russia possibly trying to install their own dude as President of our country? Just chill, everyone, we're all at fault, there are good people on both sides."

 

Or you have people like Tucker Carlson who claim the real rigging of the elections is illegal Mexicans voting in the elections for the Democrats, and that Mexico is far worse issue than Russia.

Edited by Thanatos

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Honestly Trump is just another example of how broken our election system is. How many people in this country don't vote because it's all bullshit in the end. If we had higher voter turnout we would have never gotten Trump or Hillary to begin with. The primary system is bullshit. The two party system and how laws and rules are in place that keep any other party from getting any traction have got to go. Very obvious that we need to do some radical campaign finance reform. Trump is just the end result of this hideous, corrupt political apparatus that must be smashed no matter what the cost. If that means impeaching Trump and putting some scum bags in jail I'm down but it can't stop there. We have to destroy the whole apparatus, at least as they know it. We have all the power. If we vote and run for office and keep up with the activism , the inmates can run the assylum so to speak.

Edited by seanbrock
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Honestly Trump is just another example of how broken our election system is. How many people in this country don't vote because it's all bullshit in the end. If we had higher voter turnout we would have never gotten Trump or Hillary to begin with. The primary system is bullshit. The two party system and how laws and rules are in place that keep any other party from getting any traction have got to go. Very obvious that we need to do some radical campaign finance reform. Trump is just the end result of this hideous, corrupt political apparatus that must be smashed no matter what the cost. If that means impeaching Trump and putting some scum bags in jail I'm down but it can't stop there. We have to destroy the whole apparatus, at least as they know it. We have all the power. If we vote and run for office and keep up with the activism , the inmates can run the assylum so to speak.

 

How do we convince everyone to vote? I think its Australia that has mandatory voting, so here's something I would propose:

 

First, make election day a national holiday. It's ridiculous that people have to try to sneak it in before or after work.

Secondly, either provide incentives for voting, or penalties for not voting, or perhaps both.

Thirdly, make a ranked election system like Maine has, where you pick at least three choices to be President. When one person is eliminated, everyone who voted for him has their votes swapped to their 2nd choice, and so forth. Would result in a system where more people feel like they voted for the candidate who won. This needs to be in the primary as well as the general. And also should be implemented for all elections not just the Presidential one.

 

I strongly agree that we need more voter turnout. What was it last election, like 50% of the populace? Hillary and Trump were both horrible horrible candidates.

 

Also, I don't know how we make #3 happen because neither the Dems or the GOP are going to want a system that makes it harder for them to get elected. But I think its a huge factor in getting people out to vote. Just for example in Kentucky where I live, its very hard to get friends who lean left to go to the polls because they feel the state is so far right that their voice is simply drowned out. If there was a tiered system, we'd probably still have a GOP rep, but maybe they'd be closer to the middle, because they were a choice that the liberals put down as like their 3rd or 4th option.

Edited by Thanatos

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How much difference would everybody voting make? It'd be the same results with larger vote counts. I'd like to see higher voting numbers, but I'm not convinced it'd change anything. And as for Trump...if America had had a better alternative to choose, his Presidency would probably be more upsetting to everybody.

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What Hillary did is nothing close to treason because she wasn't working for a hostile foreign nation. Despicable, yes. Treason, no.

 

Also, bringing up Hillary- again- is the last line of defense for Trump supporters when you realize you can't defend his actions. What Hillary did or did not do is irrelevant to this conversation because Hillary is not the president of the United States, Trump is.

 

I love how according to Ngata its just liberals who are in a tizzy because Trump may have sold us out to Russia. Newsflash bud, lots of conservatives are also "in a tizzy" over possible treason. What

Hillary did is wrong- morally- but unfortunately not legally. We need to fix the laws in order to fix that. What Trump did- if these accusations are true- is flat out treason.

 

Also, the amount of moving the goalposts in these types of arguments by the is too damn much. "There was no Russian collusion." "Well it may have been a little, but hey! Hillary's a bad person lets bring her up again!" "You know, America does this sort of thing all the time! Why are we upset about Russia possibly trying to install their own dude as President of our country? Just chill, everyone, we're all at fault, there are good people on both sides."

 

Or you have people like Tucker Carlson who claim the real rigging of the elections is illegal Mexicans voting in the elections for the Democrats, and that Mexico is far worse issue than Russia.

With evidence we have right now do you believe that the Russians had a bigger impact on the election than the Democrats did?

 

With the indictments Ive read, Russians not only bolstered Trumps campaign (but obviously the target bei the nominee for the only other party that matters) but also Bernies and Jill Steins. Even with that fact, all people talk about is Trump loves Russia.

 

And to think Russia wouldnt have even had to do anything if the DNC wasnt full of corrupt pieces of shit.

 

Id much rather weed out the domestic terrorists before we set our sights on the international ones their time will come.

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That is the truth. Again bit parties do dumb shit, and it is all moot because we will be stuck with the same system. People in both parties would rather argue their person over the other guy instead of fix shit that matters.

 

I want to see the evidence from the Mueller report to see if Trump had help from Russia. If it turns out he did then the entire republican party looks like shit, but a lot are condemning him so they are already in some sort of damage mode

 

If he didn't the Democrats look dumb and give the Republicans even more ammunition and we get to here FAKE NEWS even more now. Boy oh boy ,what a prize.

 

From the moment it was Hillary and Trump as our two leading candidates it was bound to be a complete and utter shit show no matter who won, and boy has it delivered. That is why young people are checking out of politics in droves. This has just reaffirmed that both parties and the system in general, as it sits, must be abandoned.

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Devine has been in the game for a long time. Strategist/Advisor for Kerry.... Gore... Sanders. Id be interested to see those contents.

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The funniest part would be if it's just a play by Mueller to keep trump off his back. Probably not the case, but I wouldn't rule it out 100% given how crazy everything is now.

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I think it's clear that Trump has monetized the presidency but how unprecedented is it? Trump is just bad at it. He's clumsy and he has a big bragadocious mouth and unfortunately for him, so do most of the people closest to him. I kind of appreciate how their stupidity is going to result in Manafort possibly finally facing some consequences.

 

I would say when you look at it, you would actually have a much better argument of Trump being controlled by Israel in regards of his policy towards Iran. It's also clear he's been influenced by Saudi money. The Russians may have hacked the DNC server and leaked documents but 1. I'm glad they leaked the corruption in the DNC 2. It happened because of incompetence. If Trump get impeeched due to FCC violations that could be a massive victory for the American People. It sets a precedent and it cements an issue that is already very much in the collective conciousness of damn near every American regardless of political affiliation.

 

People are suing the DNC too. There's a significant push for change and revolution. It might not be organized the best but running a campaign on big money is starting to become something that swings elections. The fact that people are choosing grass roots politicians more and more it's a very good sign. I think it's also resulting in a push for third parties on both sides that's silently and slowly gaining momentum which is incredible.

Edited by seanbrock

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Trump and the EU announce they are are back to the table in trade talks... EU will be buying more soybeans, LNG. No new tariffs for now. Trump backed off a bit on some of his demands and good stuff happens.

It doesn't matter what anyone says, this will help him in the midwest, where he was facing a lot of heat from farmers. It's only one step though, a lot more needs to be done and ACTUALLY accomplished.

Edited by DalaiLama4Ever

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What a great president, solving a problem that he created in a way that accomplishes nothing for the US. You are correct though, those idiots that depend on the farms probably will still support him because of it.

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You are right in the fact that it was a problem he created... But to his credit, at least he took the trade deficits seriously. Every other president literally ignores them.

I would much rather a President try to fix something, it not work out then they fix that mistake... then to just ignore the problem all together.

He attacked the deficits as if they were the cause of the problem, when in reality they are the result of other bad decisions -- namely bloated government and spending of money we don't have.

End the Fed. Shrink Government... Trade deficits will take care of themselves.

EDIT: Also, I detest your " those idiots that rely on family farms".

As I told other people who don't live here and are ignorant of the problems / issues that matter to farmers... Hillary didn't speak to those people, she didn't care about them or their interests. She didn't even do what other politicians do and lie about it. She just flat out didn't care.

Most of these farmers knew Trump was a risky proposition, but he actually talked about things that they cared about.

The result? At least here in Iowa was Trump taking a state Obama won by 6 points and crushing Hillary's soul by 10 points. 16 point flip doesn't happen just by accident.

Edited by DalaiLama4Ever

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Given that literally anyone who knew anything about the topic told him that it would play out exactly how it did...I'm not giving him props just for trying something. There's a reason presidents have advisors who theoretically are experts in their field.

 

And the fact that they called him a "risky" proposition is because they are stupid. Anyone with two brain cells to rub together could tell what he was. But they're dumb. If they weren't dumb, they wouldn't have needed Hillary to spoon-feed them reasons as to why trump was going to be unable to deliver on what he said he would. It was obvious to not-dumb people.

 

Also, Republicans are banned from talking about not being able to afford things for the rest of eternity after that tax cut. Thank you, have a good night.

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Yeah because all presidents listen to their advisors, they never go against what they say. How did that trans-pacific partnership thing play out, wasn't that something Obama pushed for with much veracity, much to the Chagrin of his cabinet.

 

As to being dumb, you liberals don't get to speak about being dumb ever again. You read your own election, to elect a person that more than half of the country literally two tests. Then you guys allow her to run on the dumbest platform known to mankind, tell white guys it's our fault for all of the problems of the country, and then flip flop on every major stance that you've ever taken in history, so that way you can play to the ear of the crowd. And yet she's the liberal Messiah, you guys are absolute morons.

 

See how that generalizing thing works? Which is funny because I thought you liberals were in general against that, because if I were to say anything that generalize the black community in a negative light, I'm pretty sure I'd be a racist, ableist, misogynist, right-wing nut. But you guys still around generalizations all willy nilly, and it's for the good of all mankind.

 

And speaking of stupid, all those idiots that rely on Family Farms? That's almost all of us, stupid, unless you have a garden and grow your own food. Jesus Christ, like 98% of this country relies on those Family Farms so are you lumping yourself in with those idiots that rely on a farm?

 

I really hope that you're much more approachable guy in real life. There's a reason why that when you left we were able to have several civil discussions in here, and then you come back and the mudslinging starts again. Imagine that. You are so incredibly entitled that it is ridiculous.

Edited by Omerta

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Farmers voted for Trump because he earned their votes by actually paying attention to them, as opposed to Hillary pretending they didn't exist. I dare say a whopping 1.5% of the population surely is the reason Donald Trump got elected, and not the fascist radical leftism that has overtaken the public perception of the Democrat party.

Edited by BwareDWare94

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