Players Top 100 List

[Barracuda 629]

I think the fact of the matter is that for the most part, players usually view other players differently then how the fans view them. And that has to be considered when you think about how the players would go about assembling this list.

 

For instance... If I'm a defensive player watching film with my DC... And were prepping for a game, the coach is probably going to bring up Desean Jackson's name a lot more then he will... Say, Jeremy Maclin, or even if I was preparing for the Packers, Greg Jennings... Because fact of the matter is, that with the ball in his hands or if he's not accounted for, Desean Jackson becomes one of the most dangerous players in the NFL. Same thing for an offensive player concerning defensive players... Since you hear his name more often, and you probably do a lot more to account for him, despite his production, etc, it would probably compel you as a player to put him high on your list.

 

How prolific is the player? How many highlight reels does this player produce? How badly did this player beat your team? How much respect do you have for the player? How popular is he around the league?

 

The players probably didn't spend anywhere near as much time looking at stats, game splits, situations, as some analyst or fan would spend looking at players. And I think that has to be really considered when talking about this list.

 

But the thing is, most guys here at TGP aren't just analyzing the stats like most fans, and that's what I love the most about this place. Just about everybody here is football smart and can see for themselves the impact a player has on the game. No doubt DeSean Jackson is brought up a lot when a team is prepping for the Eagles. He's a fast, deep threat and if you don't account for him he WILL beat you. Most teams see this and they know that so if they stop the long ball DeSean Jackson doesn't have much of an impact on the game. And even if we are just looking at stats they can tell you a lot about the player. DeSean Jackson, to me, is a one trick pony and that is the long ball. He had an average of 22.5 YPC last year. When compared to complete WR's such as Andre Johnson, Roddy White and Fitz, Jackson has less than half of the receptions they get in a year and only about 100/200 yards less. Again that tells you he's just a deep threat, going long every play. DeSean has a higher YPC by 10-8 yards, but less TD's besides Fitz where they have the same at 6. DeSean has 21 catches for over 20 yards and 8 for more than 40. That accounts for more than half of his receptions.

 

DeSean Jackson DEFINES a one trick pony for me, and if you just watch a game you'll see it also. If the opposition just takes that away he is a sub-par WR. Overall he has less of an impact on his team winning than an Andre Johnson a Roddy White or a Larry Fitzgerald. Again, if the defense just takes that aspect away and everyone on the defense can do their jobs perfectly, DeSean has little to no impact on the game and he wouldn't be close to a top 100 spot.

Edited June 23, 2011 by Barracuda

[GA_Eagle 595]

But the thing is, most guys here at TGP aren't just analyzing the stats like most fans, and that's what I love the most about this place. Just about everybody here is football smart and can see for themselves the impact a player has on the game. No doubt DeSean Jackson is brought up a lot when a team is prepping for the Eagles. He's a fast, deep threat and if you don't account for him he WILL beat you. Most teams see this and they know that so if they stop the long ball DeSean Jackson doesn't have much of an impact on the game. And even if we are just looking at stats they can tell you a lot about the player. DeSean Jackson, to me, is a one trick pony and that is the long ball. He had an average of 22.5 YPC last year. When compared to complete WR's such as Andre Johnson, Roddy White and Fitz, Jackson has less than half of the receptions they get in a year and only about 100/200 yards less. Again that tells you he's just a deep threat, going long every play. DeSean has a higher YPC by 10-8 yards, but less TD's besides Fitz where they have the same at 6. DeSean has 21 catches for over 20 yards and 8 for more than 40. That accounts for more than half of his receptions.

 

DeSean Jackson DEFINES a one trick pony for me, and if you just watch a game you'll see it also. If the opposition just takes that away he is a sub-par WR. Overall he has less of an impact on his team winning than an Andre Johnson a Roddy White or a Larry Fitzgerald. Again, if the defense just takes that aspect away and everyone on the defense can do their jobs perfectly, DeSean has little to no impact on the game and he wouldn't be close to a top 100 spot.

 

Think again about it though. Stopping the deep ball is not something you can do once and it just goes away. You have to continually gear your defense around stopping the deep ball therefore opening up the underneath stuff. [/reiteration of what WB46 just said]

 

edit: I don't disagree that I would rank him lower than that but just thought you didn't really change his point nor address all he was saying,

Edited June 23, 2011 by GA_Eagle

[westbrookforsix 28]

Think again about it though. Stopping the deep ball is not something you can do once and it just goes away. You have to continually gear your defense around stopping the deep ball therefore opening up the underneath stuff. [/reiteration of what WB46 just said]

Thank you... I was looking at his post and I was trying to repeat what I just said without repeating it, but nicely done.

 

A way I think of it (and I posted in the shoutbox, but I'll repeat) is that an offensive lineman can take his man out of the game, not get any catches (obviously) and be a hero. But when DeSean Jackson eliminates 2 DB's from every play, and doesn't get any catches, he's a "one trick pony" that got "shut down."

 

Tell that to Vick and McCoy who just combined for 150 rushing yards on your defense as they walk off victorious.

 

And once again... for anyone missing... I do not agree with how high he is on the list, but he's not too far off.

[RazorStar 4,025]

DJax is a case of being really scary when he's on, and a non factor otherwise. It may be that I appreciate consistency more from your skill position players instead of what DeSean does for you.

 

Here are his targets per game, with TD's and yards.

 

vs. GB 11 targets, 30 yards

@ DET 7 targets 135 yards, 1 TD

@ JAX 7 Targets 153 yards, 1 TD

vs. WAS 7 targets 19 yards

@ SF 3 Targets 24 yards

vs. ATL 1 Target 34 Yards 1 TD

vs. IND 8 targets 109 yards 1 TD

@ WAS 3 targets 98 yards 1 TD

vs. NYG 10 targets 50 yards

@ CHI 5 targets 26 yards

vs. HOU 4 targets 84 yards

@ Dal 7 targets 210 yards 1 TD

@ NYG 6 targets 52 yards

vs. MIN 12 targets 32 yards

 

As you can see, he has his good games, but then you've got the really bad ones like Minnesota, Washington 1, and Green Bay.

 

And yet, the players want to put that on the same plane as a Reggie Wayne who makes the most of his targets, has less drops per target, runs every route and acts as his QB's security blanket (172 targets to DeSean's 91). Just because a guy can be a threat, doesn't mean he's threatening all the time.

 

 

 

What made LeSean McCoy so awesome last year was the presence of Vick in the backfield, if you look at the splits last year when Kevin Kolb was in the game to where Vick was in, you have:

 

Kolb: 71 carries for 274 yards and 1 TD (3.86 YPC)

Vick: 136 carries for 806 yards and 6 TDs (5.93 YPC)

 

Which is why I'm somewhat alright with the players overrating of Vick on this list, because he had the passing season he never had before, while still being a threat on the ground. I'm spiteful enough to hate one year wonders so he wouldn't touch my list (yet), but I can understand well enough what he means to the eagles and their offense, and why the players would rank him so high.

[Barracuda 629]

Think again about it though. Stopping the deep ball is not something you can do once and it just goes away. You have to continually gear your defense around stopping the deep ball therefore opening up the underneath stuff. [/reiteration of what WB46 just said]

 

edit: I don't disagree that I would rank him lower than that but just thought you didn't really change his point nor address all he was saying,

 

I know what he said and he's right. But if you can have 1 CB or 1 safety covering Jackson the whole game and does a damn good job at it. If the rest of the defense can do their jobs Jackson has a small impact. Sure he opens the running lanes but if the DE can get off his block and make the tackle like he's paid to do then Jackson isn't helping much at all. Of course, that can't happen everytime because the offense has a job to do also. But if it could happen everytime Jackson has almost no impact. Just because one player requires being covered doesn't mean his team is going to succeed. If you have a CB that can cover Jackson all game and do it well, I say you have a damn good chance at winning that game. But that's why Jackson is on the top 100, because every team doesn't have that.

 

When the Eagles played Green Bay, who we all know Green Bay has some damn good defensive backs, Jackson had 4 receptions for 30 yards and no TD's. Who won that game? Green Bay. He's a non-factor when a team has someone that can cover him. At Jacksonville: 5 receptions for 135 yards and 1 TD. Can anyone even name a DB in Jacksonville? The Eagles won that one.

 

What I'm saying is exactly what these games show, have a good DB and Jackson will be a non-factor and you will have a good shot at winning. Have no DBs you're probably gonna lose to the Eagles. And you can say he opens running lanes and requires coverage every play and that's awesome and sure that's an impact and a good one but if your team can shut down Jackson like Green Bay did and play a pretty sound defensive game which Green Bay had some trouble that game, but if you can you have a helluva shot at taking that game which Green Bay did and went on to the Superbowl.

 

Edit: I'm not really saying he shouldn't be on the top 100. But he shouldn't be this high. If he was more consistent and played like he can against anyone I wouldn't mind putting him in the top 20. But, as I said earlier in the post if one guy can take him out of the game and the rest of the defense plays well you can beat the Eagles just like the Packers did. YES, Jackson has an impact in every game. YES, he opens running lanes and take out 1-2 guys from a play but if you prep for him and everything he can cause it's scary but it can be done and it has been done and I predict it will continue to be done in the next couple of years.

Edited June 23, 2011 by Barracuda

[GA_Eagle 595]

^^The problem with the above is most teams don't have a guy that can shut him down one on one,especially deep, so you're designating safety help over the top. Teams are tying up 2 guys on deep coverage not just one. Also makes the whole defense think vertically and stretches out eerything.

[westbrookforsix 28]

DJax is a case of being really scary when he's on, and a non factor otherwise. It may be that I appreciate consistency more from your skill position players instead of what DeSean does for you.

 

Here are his targets per game, with TD's and yards.

 

vs. GB 11 targets, 30 yards

@ DET 7 targets 135 yards, 1 TD

@ JAX 7 Targets 153 yards, 1 TD

vs. WAS 7 targets 19 yards

@ SF 3 Targets 24 yards

vs. ATL 1 Target 34 Yards 1 TD

vs. IND 8 targets 109 yards 1 TD

@ WAS 3 targets 98 yards 1 TD

vs. NYG 10 targets 50 yards

@ CHI 5 targets 26 yards

vs. HOU 4 targets 84 yards

@ Dal 7 targets 210 yards 1 TD

@ NYG 6 targets 52 yards

vs. MIN 12 targets 32 yards

 

As you can see, he has his good games, but then you've got the really bad ones like Minnesota, Washington 1, and Green Bay.

 

And yet, the players want to put that on the same plane as a Reggie Wayne who makes the most of his targets, has less drops per target, runs every route and acts as his QB's security blanket (172 targets to DeSean's 91). Just because a guy can be a threat, doesn't mean he's threatening all the time.

 

 

 

What made LeSean McCoy so awesome last year was the presence of Vick in the backfield, if you look at the splits last year when Kevin Kolb was in the game to where Vick was in, you have:

 

Kolb: 71 carries for 274 yards and 1 TD (3.86 YPC)

Vick: 136 carries for 806 yards and 6 TDs (5.93 YPC)

 

Which is why I'm somewhat alright with the players overrating of Vick on this list, because he had the passing season he never had before, while still being a threat on the ground. I'm spiteful enough to hate one year wonders so he wouldn't touch my list (yet), but I can understand well enough what he means to the eagles and their offense, and why the players would rank him so high.

On McCoy... his ypc is going to go down when we run the ball more. In the Vick offense, passing is the norm and running the ball is almost like a trick play. I'm surprised that he had so many carries with Kolb, despite the fact Kolb hardly was on the field. The passing game not only shrinks in attempts, but also shrinks in yardage when Kolb is out there. He simply does not have the same deep ball that Vick has. (Let's also not forget McCoy had a baller season just being himself, and he broke two shit tons of tackles)

 

In the Minnesota game, we couldn't block anyone, and it was a slaughter. The first Wash game was "bad" for DJax... but it also saw McCoy run for 110 yards. And the Green Bay game, nobody knew what the hell was going on on offense yet. Kolb was still our QB, and we were trying to be the short, efficient passing team Reid always dreamed of. These games are all games where you expect your elite WR to step up, and I see your point, and that is why I also agree that he's behind Wayne. But we have Maclin, Avant, Celek, and McCoy (had Weaver) for the short game, so that's on them more than it's on Jackson, who just did his job to draw coverage away. Reid has never been the guy to try and feed one guy the ball, or make players step outside their roles. Ever since his McNabb days, it was all about everyone contributing as a team.

[westbrookforsix 28]

I agree with a lot of this. Except that 1 DB covers Jackson. It just doesn't happen that often, and it's usually when you see him skipping down the sideline with the ball.

 

They lose games like the GB and MIN one because the pass protection up the middle and often on the right was so bad. When you dedicate your 2 DB's to cover DJ, and you get to Vick before he can process and identify the holes in the short game, then you beat the Eagles offense. DJ and Maclin on their go routes made Vick look a lot better than he was. Once he actually had to read the shorter fields, he struggled, and often just ran. Vick really needs this offseason to work out with the playbook... and if he does take that next step... I can't see anyone slowing this train down.

[RazorStar 4,025]

Fair enough. I'd be fine if the players had Jackson lower on the list. I'm willing to concede that as a pure threat, Jackson is one of the scariest for teams, but I'm a sucker for consistency and easy to see production, while hating on skill positions because they have less impact on the game than the guys closer to the ball at the snap.

[westbrookforsix 28]

Fair enough. I'd be fine if the players had Jackson lower on the list. I'm willing to concede that as a pure threat, Jackson is one of the scariest for teams, but I'm a sucker for consistency and easy to see production, while hating on skill positions because they have less impact on the game than the guys closer to the ball at the snap.

You made some great points, and consistency (and elite hands... but they're one in the same, no?) is the one thing he really misses. We're on pretty much the same page if you think he belongs in the 40-50 range.

 

He has the agility to burn anyone on the short routes, and he actually ran routes well in his first couple years, but besides his fear of injury, he honestly is a little too fast that I think he's hard to hit on a crossing route. Most of the catches he makes are bombs that he adjusts to. Whether he stopped crosses because he asked to, or Reid just realized what he does best, and that there's nothing wrong with sending him deep every play as long as he has the endurance, maybe we'll never know.

[Barracuda 629]

^^The problem with the above is most teams don't have a guy that can shut him down one on one,especially deep, so you're designating safety help over the top. Teams are tying up 2 guys on deep coverage not just one. Also makes the whole defense think vertically and stretches out eerything.

 

I agree with a lot of this. Except that 1 DB covers Jackson. It just doesn't happen that often, and it's usually when you see him skipping down the sideline with the ball.

 

They lose games like the GB and MIN one because the pass protection up the middle and often on the right was so bad. When you dedicate your 2 DB's to cover DJ, and you get to Vick before he can process and identify the holes in the short game, then you beat the Eagles offense. DJ and Maclin on their go routes made Vick look a lot better than he was. Once he actually had to read the shorter fields, he struggled, and often just ran. Vick really needs this offseason to work out with the playbook... and if he does take that next step... I can't see anyone slowing this train down.

 

And this is where I agree with both of you. Only a few teams have one DB that could take Jackson out of a game. Everyone else will have to double up on him and those are games the Eagles will usually win because it just makes it easier on the offense. But some teams already mentioned have figured it out and I expect other teams to follow their model. I also agree if Vick works as hard as he did last season the Eagles will have a fine playoff run.

Edited June 23, 2011 by Barracuda

[RazorStar 4,025]

I would say DeSean is somewhere around the 8th-10th best receiver in the league, and depending on how highly you rate special teams ability (truly the most team oriented aspect of the game), and how much impact WR's have on the game (I think way less of them than most fans). I could see DeSean in the 40 to 60 range, but I wouldn't put him there personally. Could be because I'm a biased mother, but whatever.

[Favre4Ever+ 4,476]

Think again about it though. Stopping the deep ball is not something you can do once and it just goes away. You have to continually gear your defense around stopping the deep ball therefore opening up the underneath stuff. [/reiteration of what WB46 just said]

 

edit: I don't disagree that I would rank him lower than that but just thought you didn't really change his point nor address all he was saying,

 

I would normally agree if we weren't talking Desean Jackson. But Desean Jackson is a worse, less consistent version of Randy Moss.

 

Look at Jackson's numbers split by half. (Last year only)

 

............Catches....Yards....Avg.....Long...TD......1st.....1st%.....20+.....40+

1st Half 23 655 28.5 88 5 19 82.6 15 6

2nd Half 26 448 17.2 91 1 16 61.5 7 2

 

Those numbers are pretty telling, in my opinion. He still catches the ball in the 2nd half... but the likelihood of beating you deep is extremely small. ONE TD all of last year in the second half. His YPC drops by TEN. 82% of his catches go for firsts in the 1st Half... Drops TWENTY PERCENT in the 2nd half. And the deep ball numbers speak for themselves at the end there....

 

Now... I would even go as far as saying, I expect some drop off in the 2nd half... Defenses making adjustments, maybe the Eagles are playing catch-up and defenses are being conservative deep, and you don't have as many of those quick strike "gotcha" kinda throws in the 2nd half where Jackson makes his money. But those drop offs are huge.

[Zack_of_Steel+ 3,014]

Mike Wallace.

[DonovanMcnabb for H.O.F 2,241]

I wasn't just referring to Desean ftr. lol. I was referring to a lot of these players that everyone seem to be baffled are on the list. If anything, this list is exactly how I'd thought it'd be coming from the players perspective....

[Turry 755]

Mike Wallace.

 

 

This ^^

[badgers 380]

20. Michael Vick

19. Clay Matthews

18. Nnamdi Asomugha

17. Haloti Ngata

16. Charles Woodson

15. Dwight Freeney

14. Larry Fitzgerald

13. Chris Johnson

12. DeMarcus Ware

11. Aaron Rodgers

 

That is officially what they were ranked as of tonight.

 

So I would assume that the top 10 are as follows:

 

Tom Brady

Peyton Manning

Drew Brees

Andre Johnson

Adrian Peterson

Ray Lewis

Darelle Revis

Ed Reed

Troy Polamalu

I'm blanking out right now, there's one more and I'm probably gonna feel stupid once someone mentions him.

 

In no particular order. Though we can speculate their order?

Edited June 27, 2011 by gobadgers77

[RazorStar 4,025]

Julius Peppers.

[RazorStar 4,025]

I think it'll be

 

10. Julius Peppers

9. Ray Lewis

8. Adrian Peterson

7. Drew Brees

6. Andre Johnson

5. Ed Reed

4. Troy Polamalu

3. Darrelle Revis

2. Tom Brady

1. Peyton Manning

[Barracuda 629]

CJ should be way lower. Other than that I really have nothing bad to say bout the top 20 of 2011 so far.

[Barracuda 629]

Tom Brady has to be the top guy. If he isn't this list is just total fail.

 

Please if anyone has an argument for a player being number one rather than Tom Brady for this best of 2011 list I would love to hear it.

[RazorStar 4,025]

The Players made this list. *argument made, solved and QED*

[Barracuda 629]

I have no rebuttal. You win.

[Guest Durant4MVP]

Julius Peppers above DWare? That's not right I don't care how you slice it.

 

If this trend continues, Peyton Manning will be ranked #1 despite his by-usual-standards awful season.

[badgers 380]

Julius Peppers.

 

I thought of him, but I didn't think they'd put him in the top 10...

 

I would have put him around 20 or something.