Payton, Loomis, Williams suspended

[oochymp 2,393]

The NFL announced Wednesday that New Orleans Saints coach Sean Payton will be suspended for one season without pay for his involvement in the team's bounty program. Saints general manager Mickey Loomis has been suspended for eight games. Former defensive coordinator Gregg Williams has been suspended indefinitely.

 

The team has also been fined $500,000 and will have to give up its second-round picks in the 2012 and 2013 NFL Drafts.

 

The league said in a news release that the involvement of individual players in the program is still being reviewed, and that any discipline will be announced at a future time.

 

In addition, Saints assistant head coach Joe Vitt has been suspended without pay for the first six games of the 2012 season.Payton's supension is without pay. It will begin April 1 and last for the entire 2012 season. Loomis' suspension will be for the first eight games of the 2012 season.

 

The NFL revealed March 2 the findings of a lengthy investigation into a Saints "bounty" program that gave thousands of dollars in payoffs to players for hits that knocked opponents out of games. The program, administered by then-defensive coordinator Gregg Williams, reached its height in 2009, the season the Saints won the Super Bowl.

 

The program ran in violation of league rules, and the investigation showed that Saints players received $1,500 for a "knockout" hit and $1,000 for a "cart-off" hit, with payouts doubling or tripling during the team's three playoff appearances.

 

The NFL Players Association formally requested that the league not punish the 22 to 27 players it cited in the scandal until the union had completed its independent investigation, which is underway, an NFLPA source told NFL.com's Steve Wyche.

 

The league initially did not respond to the union's request. The NFL told the NFLPA last Thursday, according to SI.com, that it was free to question any current or former Saints officials about the matter, but that it would not delay announcing its own decisions.

 

"We have given your requests careful consideration, and have concluded that there is no basis for delaying the imposition of any discipline in this matter, and particularly not as it may apply to a club or any non-player employee of a club," NFL attorney Jeff Pash wrote in the letter to union general counsel Richard Berthelsen on Wednesday. "Any disciplinary action affecting any player would be imposed only in a manner consistent with our Collective Bargaining Agreement. As you know, the sole authority to investigate and impose discipline in this matter rests with the Commissioner."

 

Williams, now defensive coordinator of the Rams, has admitted to and apologized for running the program.

 

Saints head coach Sean Payton and general manager Mickey Loomis also were implicated in the scandal, and they released a statement March 6 in which they took full responsibility for the violations.

 

"We acknowledge that the violations disclosed by the NFL during their investigation of our club happened under our watch. We take full responsibility. This has brought undue hardship on (owner Tom) Benson, who had nothing to do with this activity. He has been nothing but supportive and for that we both apologize to him.

 

"These are serious violations and we understand the negative impact it has had on our game. Both of us have made it clear within our organization that this will never happen again, and make that same promise to the NFL and most importantly to all of our fans."

 

 

Source

we all knew the NFL was going to drop the hammer, but holy shit that's huge

Edited March 21, 2012 by oochymp

[SteVo+ 3,702]

we all knew the NFL was going to drop the hammer, but holy shit that's huge

 

Pretty much how I feel about it. Never thought Sean Payton would get suspended for an entire season. That's pretty harsh. Good to see Goodell not resorting to a slap on the wrist, though. This is how you make an example.

[oochymp 2,393]

Added since I posted the article:

 

The team has also been fined $500,000 and will have to give up its second-round picks in the 2012 and 2013 NFL Drafts.

 

 

and yeah, Payton gone for a year was a surprise to say the least, what do the Saints do now? I presume Payton's contract goes beyond this season, so do they just name an interim HC for this year?

Edited March 21, 2012 by oochymp

[AllYouNeedIsLovie 377]

This is so fucking awesome.

[Packers Dynasty 2010 116]

Wow, Goodell is not messing around with this. I agree with Williams being suspended indefinitely, but Payton being suspended for a year it really harsh.

[Guest Phailadelphia]

BOOM!

[oochymp 2,393]

also added to the article:

In addition, Saints assistant head coach Joe Vitt has been suspended without pay for the first six games of the 2012 season.

so, seriously, who's coaching the Saints this year?

[SteVo+ 3,702]

so, seriously, who's coaching the Saints this year?

 

I would imagine Spags.

[Zack_of_Steel+ 3,014]

This is the type of punishment Spygate should have warranted. Fuck off, Goodell.

[SteVo+ 3,702]

This is the type of punishment Spygate should have warranted. Fuck off, Goodell.

 

I was thinking that. For perspective, what did New England get...franchise fined $500K, Belichick fined $250K, and lost their 1st round draft pick, right? Even though it didn't matter because they had the 7th overall pick that year anyway (from San Francisco) and eventually used it to take Jerod Mayo.

[AllYouNeedIsLovie 377]

This is the type of punishment Spygate should have warranted. Fuck off, Goodell.

 

Yea, once again, roflRogerGoodell. So inconsistent with his punishments.

 

And oochy, I am assuming Spags takes over. As a Bucs fan, I am loving this.

[oochymp 2,393]

This is the type of punishment Spygate should have warranted. Fuck off, Goodell.

creating an incentive system for hurting other players is a far worse offense than video taping closed practices, with Spygate you're talking about gaining an unfair competitive advantage, with the bounty system you're talking about creating an intent to hurt people, you're talking about sportsmanship v. common human decency

 

also, I forgot they brought Spags in, that would be the logical choice and it'll be an audition for him to coach somewhere else the next year

Edited March 21, 2012 by oochymp

[Guest Phailadelphia]

This is the type of punishment Spygate should have warranted. Fuck off, Goodell.

 

Spygate didn't have the capability to create lawsuits over brain damage. This does. The punishment is fair.

[Shotgun 442]

It's a ridiculously severe punishment but they obviously are making an example out of them. I figured Payton would be fined, but suspended for an entire year without pay? Wow.

[Eefluxx 113]

creating an incentive system for hurting other players is a far worse offense than video taping closed practices, with Spygate you're talking about gaining an unfair competitive advantage, with the bounty system you're talking about creating an intent to hurt people, you're talking about sportsmanship v. common human decency

 

agreed, but where is all this evidence they supposedly have? Saints didn't lead the league in illegal hits or fines or penelties in any of those years. Also all we have to go on this is the media hypeing it up. Williams and the Saints admitted to a pay for performance program and not a bounty program.

 

Still, as for who coaches the team this year it will probably be Pete Carmichael Jr. the OC. He knows the team better than Spags and it will give him HC experiance. Spags just getting there still doesn't know everyone but will probably be named interm Asst. coach to help Carmichael. Thats my take on it anyways.

 

Its harsh but it is what it is. At least we know and can move on from here on out.

 

My only concern is with the HC and GM and Asst. HC all suspended starting April 1 who is going to run the draft process.

[AllYouNeedIsLovie 377]

I don't get why Payton is getting a year suspension and Loomis only gets 8 games. Loomis was more of a problem than Payton was. Whatever though, works out better for me.

[Eefluxx 113]

Spygate didn't have the capability to create lawsuits over brain damage. This does. The punishment is fair.

 

Does it really? The precedent of s player sueing another player because they got hurt in a contact sport would be dangerous. You could then have baseball players sueing pitchers for retaliating when another hitter gets beaned. It could totally fuck up all sports if it happens.

[Guest Phailadelphia]

agreed, but where is all this evidence they supposedly have? Saints didn't lead the league in illegal hits or fines or penelties in any of those years. Also all we have to go on this is the media hypeing it up. Williams and the Saints admitted to a pay for performance program and not a bounty program.

 

Still, as for who coaches the team this year it will probably be Pete Carmichael Jr. the OC. He knows the team better than Spags and it will give him HC experiance. Spags just getting there still doesn't know everyone but will probably be named interm Asst. coach to help Carmichael. Thats my take on it anyways.

 

Its harsh but it is what it is. At least we know and can move on from here on out.

 

My only concern is with the HC and GM and Asst. HC all suspended starting April 1 who is going to run the draft process.

 

RT @JasonLaCanfora The NFL, in its statement today, says its investigation showed Warner, Favre, Aaron Rodgers and Cam Newton were targeted by the Saints

[oochymp 2,393]

agreed, but where is all this evidence they supposedly have? Saints didn't lead the league in illegal hits or fines or penelties in any of those years. Also all we have to go on this is the media hypeing it up. Williams and the Saints admitted to a pay for performance program and not a bounty program.

 

Still, as for who coaches the team this year it will probably be Pete Carmichael Jr. the OC. He knows the team better than Spags and it will give him HC experiance. Spags just getting there still doesn't know everyone but will probably be named interm Asst. coach to help Carmichael. Thats my take on it anyways.

 

Its harsh but it is what it is. At least we know and can move on from here on out.

 

My only concern is with the HC and GM and Asst. HC all suspended starting April 1 who is going to run the draft process.

so public admissions from Payton, Loomis, and Williams isn't enough evidence?

Edited March 21, 2012 by oochymp

[Zack_of_Steel+ 3,014]

If you want to debate the numbers again, we can. Using the median salary makes no sense seeing as average/mean/median numbers all included non-starters and practice squad players who would have little to no chance of having a shot at the bonuses. Using an average is much more fair as there are far more non-starters and PS players than there are defensive starters in the league.

 

$1.9 million vs. an average college student working a part time job making $13,000 a year comes out to about $6.83. That's a cup of coffee. The money is a talking point and weak justification for such a steep punishment considering the fact that there are bounty systems everywhere.

[AllYouNeedIsLovie 377]

Williams being suspended indefinitely sucks for the Rams. Do you think they get compensated with something?

[Guest Phailadelphia]

Does it really? The precedent of s player sueing another player because they got hurt in a contact sport would be dangerous. You could then have baseball players sueing pitchers for retaliating when another hitter gets beaned. It could totally fuck up all sports if it happens.

 

It wasn't that they got hurt in a contact sport. It's that they got paid incentives to injure specific players. It's a fine line, but the Saints clearly crossed it.

[Eefluxx 113]

It wasn't that they got hurt in a contact sport. It's that they got paid incentives to injure specific players. It's a fine line, but the Saints clearly crossed it.

 

Yes but take the baseball example. If a batter gets beaned, then 9 times out of 10 the manager will tell his pitcher to bean the opposing batter as retaliation. It happens all the time and intent is part of it and he is still getting paid. I see your point tho but I just don't think it will stand up in a court or it would send a dangerouse precedent to all sports.

[Eefluxx 113]

so public admissions from Payton, Loomis, and Williams isn't enough evidence?

admission of a pay for performance system, not bounty system. Despite what the media says it is two different things.

 

Just about every team since this came out has had players admitting to a pay for performance system in place just not run by the coaches

[Shotgun 442]

If you want to debate the numbers again, we can. Using the median salary makes no sense seeing as average/mean/median numbers all included non-starters and practice squad players who would have little to no chance of having a shot at the bonuses. Using an average is much more fair as there are far more non-starters and PS players than there are defensive starters in the league.

 

$1.9 million vs. an average college student working a part time job making $13,000 a year comes out to about $6.83. That's a cup of coffee. The money is a talking point and weak justification for such a steep punishment considering the fact that there are bounty systems everywhere.

 

 

The money was obviously secondary to making an example out of a team the NFL seen as putting the league in a bad light when they've been trying to reduce player injuries. It's probably just more of an excuse for a grounds of punishment. And I don't think your price comparisons are valid seeing as nobody is going to be moved to do something over $7 even if they are making $13,000 a year.They wouldn't bother making a big deal out of putting a $1,000 reward or a $10,000 pot together like they did if it meant the same as a few dollars to them. But again I doubt the actual reward prices would have had much of an impact on the penalties even if it was for more money.

Edited March 21, 2012 by Shotgun