Top 5 U.S. Presidents

[Favre4Ever+ 4,476]

Has there really been a President in history who has had every single decision make the country and its people come out on top? Good presidents can do some unpopular and bad things at times.

 

Coolidge slashed the national debt, hated spending everyone elses money (which is impossible to come by these days, and he took a major dump on a lot of taxes both personal/income and corporate. Again... Did he make some mistakes? Surely.. But the 20's were epic.

 

Andrew Jackson is the BOMB! The guy paid off the entire debt of the nation. He loved the republic and steadfastly protecting the liberties of the American people. There are some policy things that you can look at that maybe should have been different... But the large influx of cash thanks to FR banking which in itself led to bad investments across the board led to the panic and in effect the recession. Kind of sounds familiar, doesn't it?

 

As far as FDR, you could argue that he is one of the worst Presidents ever. He gets so much credit for getting us out of the Depression. A Depression in which he likely lengthened.

 

He did campaigned on not going to war, yet was one of the biggest war mongers in US history. He yearned for war. Obsessed with ways to get America involved, which in the end... Worked. The Greer incident, which was provoked by America. Pearl Harbor... Winston Churchill has been quoted by aides to say that FDR confided in him that everything that was to be done was to provoke an incident. The fuck?

 

A lot of his policies, programs, and government created departments were meant to be patch jobs which ended up getting extended for decades upon decades... Policies and programs that set the foundation for the destruction of the country.

 

The abuse of power, the court packing, the smear campaigns, the incredulous amount of spending, the corruption...

 

And one of my FAVORITES. The destruction of food supplies in order to raise prices on food items. America was destroying a MASSIVE supply of food in a time in which people were going hungry, had no work, and were broke off their asses. How awesome.

 

FDR's goal was to increase his power, undermine the Constitution at every turn, and destroy the foundation and principles of our founding fathers.

 

The man was evil, and nothing more. Fuck your history textbooks.

[SteVo+ 3,702]

my top five would probably go:

 

1) George Washington

2) Woodrow Wilson

3) Abraham Lincoln

4) Thomas Jefferson

5) Harry Truman

 

I would like to challenge you on your selections for #2 and #5, good sir.

 

I like that Wilson makes your list, as I've always felt he was underrated, and doesn't get the credit he deserves for being president during World War I. His Fourteen Points, however, turned out to be a blotch on his resume despite their initial intentions. What does a motion to unite the world in peace accomplish if your allies have trouble agreeing with it?

 

As for Truman, I have no qualms about his decision to drop an atomic bomb on Japan. My point of contention is his foreign policy, which, in the wake of World War II, set a very strong foundation for America's foreign policy of the modern world. I truly believe that our country's current tendency to overextend our military forces, invade countries unnecessarily, etc., started with Truman. Had his foreign policy been different (or less effective), I wonder what the world would be like today.

[OSUViking 505]

Jackson and Coolidge may have "slashed" the debt, but their policies still lead to depressions that their successors were entirely blamed for. I'll repeat: that pet bank shit had negative effects on the country that lasted until FDR stopped the failing banks. That's paraphrased from my history text book.

 

FDR one of the worst? I think that's laughable regardless of if you agree with his economic policies or not. The point I was making is that he lead the country through the Depression and WW2 and gave the US the hope it needed. He was the right man at the right time.

 

To back up my stance on Jackson:

 

- Pet Banks

- Spoils System

- Indian Removal Act

- Nullification Crisis

- He openly defied the Supreme Court with his decision that the Federal Bank was unconsitutional ( McCulloch vs. Maryland disagrees) and also when he forced Indians out of their lands in Georgia.

 

I see him as nothing more than a tyrant who was elected because he won an unsubstantial victory at New Orleans. IMO, Henry Clay was more deserving of the presidency and could have been a much more effective leader.

Edited January 27, 2013 by Vikingfan465

[OSUViking 505]

As for Truman, I have no qualms about his decision to drop an atomic bomb on Japan. My point of contention is his foreign policy, which, in the wake of World War II, set a very strong foundation for America's foreign policy of the modern world. I truly believe that our country's current tendency to overextend our military forces, invade countries unnecessarily, etc., started with Truman. Had his foreign policy been different (or less effective), I wonder what the world would be like today.

 

This. I feel like the Cold War wouldn't have been as severe or could have even been avoided had the Truman administration not been so aggressive towards Communism.

[Favre4Ever+ 4,476]

Jackson and Coolidge may have "slashed" the debt, but their policies still lead to depressions that their successors were entirely blamed for. I'll repeat: that pet bank shit had negative effects on the country that lasted until FDR stopped the failing banks. That's paraphrased from my history text book.

 

FDR one of the worst? I think that's laughable regardless of if you agree with his economic policies or not. The point I was making is that he lead the country through the Depression and WW2 and gave the US the hope it needed. He was the right man at the right time.

 

Did you read the post? Would you like to counter ANYTHING? Or would you rather continue reading your textbooks that praise FDR as our King and Savior?

[SteVo+ 3,702]

FDR didn't even get us out of the Depression; Hitler did.

[Favre4Ever+ 4,476]

Kind of sad that I believe the most recent President being nominated was elected into office almost 70 years ago.

[SteVo+ 3,702]

Kind of sad that I believe the most recent President being nominated was elected into office almost 70 years ago.

 

From World War II until now, the only presidents who deserve consideration, in my opinion, are Reagan and Clinton, but a detailed look reveals that neither of them belong in the top five.

[Omerta+ 1,206]

Clinton was a horrible president imo.

[OSUViking 505]

As far as FDR, you could argue that he is one of the worst Presidents ever. He gets so much credit for getting us out of the Depression. A Depression in which he likely lengthened.

 

I already mentioned this was debatable and controversial depending on where you stand economically. Since there is no way to debate economics without one side saying, "This person has claimed your economic system doesn't work," I'm not going to debate this. There's a reason why I didn't include his economic policies in my reasoning.

 

He did campaigned on not going to war, yet was one of the biggest war mongers in US history. He yearned for war. Obsessed with ways to get America involved, which in the end... Worked. The Greer incident, which was provoked by America. Pearl Harbor... Winston Churchill has been quoted by aides to say that FDR confided in him that everything that was to be done was to provoke an incident. The fuck?

 

I'm not denying that he wanted to go to war. Hell, I would have wanted to go to war. It was a time in which neutrality wasn't being respected and America's interests weren't being respected. I can't really knock on him for getting us into WW2.

 

A lot of his policies, programs, and government created departments were meant to be patch jobs which ended up getting extended for decades upon decades... Policies and programs that set the foundation for the destruction of the country.

 

How is this FDR's fault? The way I see it, this is equivalent to saying the doctor should be blamed because the patient got addicted to medicine that he prescribed. It's not FDR's fault that the American people became addicted to his social programs.

 

Also, many of the social programs ended up proving to be useful. The PWA and WPA helped revive our infrastructure, the art sector, and also get young and unemployed men out working. They followed the thinking of "we can hire them now since the private sector sucks with the idea that the private sector will pick them up when we don't need them anymore and the economy is picking up." They also fit in with my point: they gave Americans hope.

 

The abuse of power, the court packing, the smear campaigns, the incredulous amount of spending, the corruption...

 

Not defending the court packing. Could you elaborate on abuse of power? And it's precious that people accuse FDR of "incredulous spending" yet turn around and praise Reagan. His spending almost cast the New Deal into the shadows.

 

Read this. Note that it excludes military spending, so Reagan isn't as bad here.

 

And one of my FAVORITES. The destruction of food supplies in order to raise prices on food items. America was destroying a MASSIVE supply of food in a time in which people were going hungry, had no work, and were broke off their asses. How awesome.

 

This was something I disagreed with, but the agriculture industry was doing awful. I think they went about increasing prices all wrong... there was a reason these policies were declared unconstitutional.

 

FDR's goal was to increase his power, undermine the Constitution at every turn, and destroy the foundation and principles of our founding fathers.

 

The man was evil, and nothing more. Fuck your history textbooks.

Purely speculation so there's not really anything I can refute here.

 

 

Sorry for the time it took to get this up I had to go dig up that article...

[OSUViking 505]

From World War II until now, the only presidents who deserve consideration, in my opinion, are Reagan and Clinton, but a detailed look reveals that neither of them belong in the top five.

 

What about Eisenhower? That might be unexplained bias that I have toward Eisenhower, but it seemed like he was a decent president. I'm obviously skipping over a lot of things, but he didn't fuck around with the Suez Crisis (meaning that he didn't just side with France and Britain because they were our allies... he didn't get involved because there was no communist threat in Egypt at the time). The highway system was pretty big, and he got us out of the Korean War. He obviously had flaws, but I think for the most part he was the best president from the 50s on.

[oochymp 2,393]

I would like to challenge you on your selections for #2 and #5, good sir.

I had a feeling someone would

 

I like that Wilson makes your list, as I've always felt he was underrated, and doesn't get the credit he deserves for being president during World War I. His Fourteen Points, however, turned out to be a blotch on his resume despite their initial intentions. What does a motion to unite the world in peace accomplish if your allies have trouble agreeing with it?

as you said, his leadership through WWI was invaluable, and that's largely what got him on my list, as for the 14 points, the biggest issue was that nobody else in the US bought into them, the League of Nations basically failed because we weren't a part of it (that's admittedly an extreme over simplification) and really set the stage for the current UN

 

As for Truman, I have no qualms about his decision to drop an atomic bomb on Japan. My point of contention is his foreign policy, which, in the wake of World War II, set a very strong foundation for America's foreign policy of the modern world. I truly believe that our country's current tendency to overextend our military forces, invade countries unnecessarily, etc., started with Truman. Had his foreign policy been different (or less effective), I wonder what the world would be like today.

This. I feel like the Cold War wouldn't have been as severe or could have even been avoided had the Truman administration not been so aggressive towards Communism.

First of all, I'll say one of the main reasons Truman made my list was dropping the bomb, as horrible as it was I have absolutely no doubt that a full scale invasion of Japan would have been far worse, that was one of the toughest decisions any American President has faced and I think he got it absolutely right

 

As for his approach to Russia, I again think he was put in a tough position and did the best he could, and I'll also point out that a lot of the anti-Communism sentiment came from Congress, not the President, that said, Korea, which set the tone for foreign policy, certainly falls squarely on Truman

 

However, balancing that against everything Truman did to rebuild Europe and I think he comes out ahead, not to mention his domestic policy and how much he did to start the Civil Rights movement, and I think he's deserving of the #5 spot

[Thanatos 2,847]

Andrew Jackson should not be on any top-10 list. Anyone that sanctions the "forced relocation" which ended up being nothing short of a massacre of an entire people, doesn't get on a top list of US presidents, no matter what his other accomplishments.

 

I'd probably say:

 

1) Abraham Lincoln

2) George Washington

3) Theodore Roosevelt

4) Ronald Reagan

5) Calvin Coolidge

 

But that is completely off the top of my head. Might change it around a bit.

Edited January 27, 2013 by Thanatos19

[Guest Phailadelphia]

Yeah, Andrew Jackson was a pretty atrocious President by most standards. I've never understood the general public's infatuation with him.

[Omerta+ 1,206]

Man we should make this some sort of elimination thing where you have to argue for candidates if you voted for them lol.

 

Or at least criteria lol. I hate Clinton (Who is mystically beloved), and I like Jimmy Carter (who is almost unanimously hated). And looking at these lists I just think it would be fun to state your points for dissection.

[Thanatos 2,847]

Yeah, Andrew Jackson was a pretty atrocious President by most standards. I've never understood the general public's infatuation with him.

 

It's because he gave the finger to the SC that one time, and told them to enforce their own law. He also gets most of the RP supporters because he abolished the Second National Bank. We look at some of the dumb stuff the SC is doing today, and wish a President would do something similar.

[OSUViking 505]

I still think James Polk deserves more credit as a President.

[OSUViking 505]

Yeah, Andrew Jackson was a pretty atrocious President by most standards. I've never understood the general public's infatuation with him.

 

I think it has something to do with his "monumental" (*cough* the war was already over *cough*) victory at New Orleans. That's what I think it is for most people. However, some people do look at his actions and believe they were good.

 

EDIT:

 

It's because he gave the finger to the SC that one time, and told them to enforce their own law. He also gets most of the RP supporters because he abolished the Second National Bank. We look at some of the dumb stuff the SC is doing today, and wish a President would do something similar.

 

 

This, along with New Orleans, plays in with a view that he was an awesome bad-ass that steered the US to prosperity.

Edited January 27, 2013 by Vikingfan465

[Guest Phailadelphia]

I still think James Polk deserves more credit as a President.

 

I haven't made my top 5 yet but he'll probably be in it. Dude got shit done.

[Thanatos 2,847]

I still think James Polk deserves more credit as a President.

 

Honestly don't know that much about him.

 

Feel free to drop the enlightenment hammer.

[OSUViking 505]

I haven't made my top 5 yet but he'll probably be in it. Dude got shit done.

 

Honestly don't know that much about him.

 

Feel free to drop the enlightenment hammer.

 

 

He was in mine at the #5 position. He tripled the size of the US, made us a coast-to-coast nation, was moderate from what I can see during a very partisan period, and established a treasury system that lasted until Wilson replaced it in 1913.

 

EDIT: As Phail mentioned, he delivered on everything he set out to do in one term.

Edited January 27, 2013 by Vikingfan465

[Guest Phailadelphia]

Honestly don't know that much about him.

 

Feel free to drop the enlightenment hammer.

 

 

The first (and probably only) President to ever deliver on every single campaign promise and then some.

[Omerta+ 1,206]

Why is Andrew Jackson so demonized, that is something I don't understand. Considering the time he was in he was actually a pretty civil man. he may have been tough on people but he was actually a relatively fair guy.

 

This emigration should be voluntary, for it would be as cruel as unjust to compel the aborigines to abandon the graves of their fathers and seek a home in a distant land. But they should be distinctly informed that if they remain within the limits of the States they must be subject to their laws. In return for their obedience as individuals they will without doubt be protected in the enjoyment of those possessions which they have improved by their industry.

 

Those were by Andrew Jackson. I really don't think that was an unfair request especially considering the times. That and most people who had fought in the Indian wars wanted a complete extermination of them.

[Thanatos 2,847]

Except... it wasn't voluntary.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_Removal_Act_of_1830

 

There's a reason it's called the Trail of Tears, and it ain't because the Native Americans were all smiles to be leaving their homelands, somewhere they had lived for hundreds of years, merely because Jackson asked nicely.

 

Also, asking the nations to be subject to the laws of the states, which they had zero input in forming, doesn't exactly strike me as being a "fair guy."

 

There's also a reason why Abraham Lincoln vehemently opposed the Act. It is one of the single worst Acts signed into law by a US president in our nation's history.

Edited January 27, 2013 by Thanatos19

[Omerta+ 1,206]

Except... it wasn't voluntary.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_Removal_Act_of_1830

 

There's a reason it's called the Trail of Tears, and it ain't because the Native Americans were all smiles to be leaving their homelands, somewhere they had lived for hundreds of years, merely because Jackson asked nicely.

 

Ok that would be acceptable if A.) People understood the Indian Removal Act was a negotiation with the Indians. Throughout the duration of his presidency it was debated and made it to the supreme court.

 

 

And B.) realized the timeline. It was not until after he left office (he left in 1837) in 1838 when Van Buren sent troops down to remove them forcibly.

Edited January 27, 2013 by Ngata_Chance