Who wins the AFC North in 2013?

[Omerta+ 1,206]

Ravens aren't half the team they were last year. They lost Lewis, Reed, and Boldin.(They lost Pollard too but it isn't as big.) There isn't much high morale in a locker room that loses it's key leaders. Flacco is going to have to step up, or the entire team will fall apart. While the Dumervil situation shouldn't have happened, it did, and I hope Baltimore is greatful for him. He is the only true bright spot of the offseason. They are going to be starting a rookie safety, possibly a free agent signing across from the rookie. They lost Ellerbe and Kruger, roleplayers who were set to take up place. McClain just retired so any hope for a good linebacker corps has died. Arthur Brown could step in and fill up Lewis in a physical hole, but the mental hole is still gonna be there. Flacco is the future of this team, and let's hope the team made the right choice by investing so much in him.

 

That is way off. You would think being inside the North you would know better. Every year it is the Ravens and the Steelers are getting old, there is no way they can compete. And low and behold they do and end up kicking the shit out of the division and each other. It has been the bengals time now for what ? 8 years or some shit. Please, until they win a meaningful game they are the Bungles.

 

Then when the Steelers and Ravens do decide to make a concerted effort to get younger the excuse now becomes,"Oh they are too young and dont have the leadership to compete" Lol What ? So if we have old vets we are going to lose, and if we have young talent we still lose ? I am glad football does not play out like that because if so the Steelers and Ravens might as well just give up and give it to the Bengals.

 

As to who we lost. Ed, it is about fucking time he has been a shell of his former self for 3 years living off his own hype, I will gladly take Huff at this point over Reed. Ray as much as I love the guy it was evident that he was due to retire. And the lack of leadership ? Where the hell is this at ? Ngata, Suggs, Webb, Rice all can be leaders on this team and still has more than most.

[CribbsForTheWin 117]

I voted for the Browns (homerism), but all biased aside I believe it will be the Bengals, and then I honestly believe 2-4 is a toss up.

[Zack_of_Steel+ 3,014]

You think the Bengals will win the division and that the Ravens and Steelers are so evenly matched with the Browns that any of the three could finish in the cellar? Farfetched, imo.

[Bay 2,003]

Steelers.

[Cherry 1,302]

That is way off. You would think being inside the North you would know better. Every year it is the Ravens and the Steelers are getting old, there is no way they can compete. And low and behold they do and end up kicking the shit out of the division and each other. It has been the bengals time now for what ? 8 years or some shit. Please, until they win a meaningful game they are the Bungles.

 

Then when the Steelers and Ravens do decide to make a concerted effort to get younger the excuse now becomes,"Oh they are too young and dont have the leadership to compete" Lol What ? So if we have old vets we are going to lose, and if we have young talent we still lose ? I am glad football does not play out like that because if so the Steelers and Ravens might as well just give up and give it to the Bengals.

 

As to who we lost. Ed, it is about fucking time he has been a shell of his former self for 3 years living off his own hype, I will gladly take Huff at this point over Reed. Ray as much as I love the guy it was evident that he was due to retire. And the lack of leadership ? Where the hell is this at ? Ngata, Suggs, Webb, Rice all can be leaders on this team and still has more than most.

 

So losing a guy who has been the biggest voice on the team since it came into the league doesn't have an effect on the team? I just don't see any player stepping into Ray's shoes to take over as the true leader of the team. Maybe a year or so from now someone will come even close to filling his shoes, but it won't happen over the summer.

 

The Bengals time for 8 years? When did I claim that? Johnson wasnt even close to what Green is, and I'd take Dalton over Palmer any day. Our defense is much improved, and arguably top 5. Our offense is better with our new weapons in Bernard and Eifert. The biggest question mark on our team is Andy Dalton, but I think he'll start to blossom this year.

 

Do you think Flacco is gonna make a repeat performance of what he did in the super bowl? Boldin is gone. Do you think with an arsenal that limited he can drag the team to another ring, or even to the top spot in the division? While the team definitely has talent, I don't think that they have more than the Bengals do, as of now. I'd love to be proven wrong though. I'm pretty sure it's time for Baltimore and Pittsburgh to pass the torch.

[Dutch 874]

 

The Bengals time for 8 years? When did I claim that? Johnson wasnt even close to what Green is, and I'd take Dalton over Palmer any day. Our defense is much improved, and arguably top 5. Our offense is better with our new weapons in Bernard and Eifert. The biggest question mark on our team is Andy Dalton, but I think he'll start to blossom this year.

 

 

To be fair, Johnson was a top receiver in the league for quite a stretch in the early 2000's. So is A.J already, but Chad was no scrub. Also, I'd take a 05 ' 06 pre-injury Palmer over Dalton quick.

[Bay 2,003]

To be fair, Johnson was a top receiver in the league for quite a stretch in the early 2000's. So is A.J already, but Chad was no scrub. Also, I'd take a 05 ' 06 pre-injury Palmer over Dalton quick.

 

 

Yep, no contest.

[seanbrock 1,684]

If Big Ben plays 16 games Pittsburgh wins 12.

[Omerta+ 1,206]

So losing a guy who has been the biggest voice on the team since it came into the league doesn't have an effect on the team? I just don't see any player stepping into Ray's shoes to take over as the true leader of the team. Maybe a year or so from now someone will come even close to filling his shoes, but it won't happen over the summer.

 

The Bengals time for 8 years? When did I claim that? Johnson wasnt even close to what Green is, and I'd take Dalton over Palmer any day. Our defense is much improved, and arguably top 5. Our offense is better with our new weapons in Bernard and Eifert. The biggest question mark on our team is Andy Dalton, but I think he'll start to blossom this year.

 

Do you think Flacco is gonna make a repeat performance of what he did in the super bowl? Boldin is gone. Do you think with an arsenal that limited he can drag the team to another ring, or even to the top spot in the division? While the team definitely has talent, I don't think that they have more than the Bengals do, as of now. I'd love to be proven wrong though. I'm pretty sure it's time for Baltimore and Pittsburgh to pass the torch.

 

Have you seen Ray play at all in the last 2 years ? IT wasnt pretty but you dont pull the face of the franchise like that. SO yes I think him leaving has actually improved our defense.

 

And way to look like a narcissist. Where did I say YOU said 8 years ? I will save you the time. I didn't. It has seriously been about 8 years that the media and analysts have said it is the Bengals time. Yet every year they get smacked the fuck down back to reality about their team. Hell the year you guys did win the division Baltimore still went further in the playoffs. Until your team proves then have the nuts to win when it counts then you can talk about passing this torch and all that other nonsense.

 

So what? Boldin is gone. Why do people act like the dude was some sort of god? He had less than 1000 yards and 4 fucking touchdowns in the regular season. Yeah that production is so hard to come buy that #2 wide receivers have been cut for production like that lol. You can tell yourself it will make a difference if it makes you feel better than ok, but the bad news is we have receivers on the roster who can do that already. And for the proverbial torch to be passed you have to win the division, more than once. You did that already and it was nothing more than a blip in the radar in which another AFCN team still surpassed you accomplishments.

 

This would be a different conversation if you had one a playoff game sometime in the last 6 years or so, but every time the Bengals get there they get bounced first round....HARD.

 

We are a far better team than we were last year.

[CribbsForTheWin 117]

You think the Bengals will win the division and that the Ravens and Steelers are so evenly matched with the Browns that any of the three could finish in the cellar? Farfetched, imo.

 

Weren't people saying that back in '07 when the Browns and Steelers went 10-6 and the Bengals were 7-9 and the Ravens were 5-12. Yes, I think that the Browns have enough talent on both sides of the ball, along with good, experienced coaching that they will compete for the 2nd best team in the division.

 

Everyone is hanging their hat on Big Ben staying healthy and Antonio Brown Heath Miller to be the players they were last year without Mike Wallace out there. They are likely going to be running out a rookie RB (although he is talented), who I don't see being a whole heck of a lot better than what they have/had. There OL hasn't protected the quarterback in what seems like a decade so that whole Big Ben staying healthy kind of gets put into doubt. Troy Palamalu has been hurt quite a bit recently. There are a lot of ifs here, just like the Browns.

 

With the Ravens. Will Flacco get complacent now that he has that new contract? How will he be without his security blanket, Boldin? They lost a lot on defense, and though they got some solid replacements, it will be very very difficult to replace the leadership of Ed Reed and Ray Lewis.

 

So yes, I believe that any of those 3 teams could finish "in the cellar," but I believe whoever it is could very easily be 7-9, so it's not like it was a terrible season for anyone.

[terpmaniac 19]

Marvin Lewis is 79 win, 80 loses in 10 years as the coach of the Bengals. Andy Dalton is 0-2 in the playoffs. Dalton is a solid quarterback during the regular season, then drops a big, fat, smelly turd in the middle of the field during the playoffs. Bengals got talent. But you are not going very far with a QB who cant win the big game, and a coach in Lewis that is about as mediocre as you can get.

[Cherry 1,302]

Have you seen Ray play at all in the last 2 years ? IT wasnt pretty but you dont pull the face of the franchise like that. SO yes I think him leaving has actually improved our defense.

 

And way to look like a narcissist. Where did I say YOU said 8 years ? I will save you the time. I didn't. It has seriously been about 8 years that the media and analysts have said it is the Bengals time. Yet every year they get smacked the fuck down back to reality about their team. Hell the year you guys did win the division Baltimore still went further in the playoffs. Until your team proves then have the nuts to win when it counts then you can talk about passing this torch and all that other nonsense.

 

So what? Boldin is gone. Why do people act like the dude was some sort of god? He had less than 1000 yards and 4 fucking touchdowns in the regular season. Yeah that production is so hard to come buy that #2 wide receivers have been cut for production like that lol. You can tell yourself it will make a difference if it makes you feel better than ok, but the bad news is we have receivers on the roster who can do that already. And for the proverbial torch to be passed you have to win the division, more than once. You did that already and it was nothing more than a blip in the radar in which another AFCN team still surpassed you accomplishments.

 

This would be a different conversation if you had one a playoff game sometime in the last 6 years or so, but every time the Bengals get there they get bounced first round....HARD.

 

We are a far better team than we were last year.

 

The Palmer-Johnson era is much more inconsistent. While they did put up solid stats and act as a good pair, the rest of the team wasn't as developed as they are now. Back then, Chad and Palmer carried the team to the playoffs, with Houshmandzadeh playing a role in it too. However, the defense wasn't anything close to what it is now. The Bengals are a much improved team that has the ability to start surpassing Baltimore. This year could be a transition year, or it could be another year of Pittsburgh and Baltimore holding onto what they have and trying to keep the team building while staying at a top team level.

 

If you look at Chad Johnson when he was one of the top receivers, it's pretty obvious he had more help. Palmer could get the deep ball, if needed, something that Dalton can't do as good. According to ESPN stats, in his first two years, Chad Johnson caught 97 passes (What AJ Green caught last year alone) for 6 TDs and 1,493 yards (Green caught worth 1,350 yards just last year and had 11 touchdowns.) Green, while having a slightly more productive QB in Andy Dalton (Johnson had Kitna for his first 3 years.) he is a much better receiver with less help, and a less productive QB (Referring to 05-06 Palmer). Johnson hovered roughly around 90 receptions a year from 2003-2007, catching an average of 1,374 yards. Green is just two years in the NFL, has an average of 1203.5 yards a year. While this isn't the biggest collection of data, and Green is going up from here, I think Green holds the advantage.

 

In the first two years with a QB of solid ability, AKA:Kitna to Palmer, Johnson caught 90 and 95 passes in 2003 and 2004. In 2003 he caught 10 touchdowns, and in 2004 he caught 9 touchdowns. Those years he managed 1,355 yards, and 1,274 yards. He experienced both a rookie QB, and being thrown to by a quarterback who played just average (Kitna managed 26 touchdowns and 15 interceptions. Similar to what Dalton did last year getting 27 and 16. Also, they both had 87.4 ratings, and 62.3 completion percentage. A nearly exact statistical year.)

 

In terms of help, not including help from the #2 wide receiver, Green's complimenting receivers had roughly 65 catches (Less if you include the times they weren't playing across from Green.) In 2007, a year where Palmer had a close QB rating to Dalton, 86.7 compared to 87.4, Houshmandzadeh had 112 catches. He was targeted 169 times. Don't think it was too much because of Johnson being irrelevant. He was targeted 161 times, 3 times less than Green was last year. Green's sidekicks were targeted 106 times. A 63 passes difference. I guess the point I'm trying to make is that Green is already at Johnson's level, and surpassing him. As the offense improves, so will Green.

 

When it comes to Dalton and Palmer, I know practically everyone would take 05-06 Palmer over current Dalton. The reason why I wouldn't is because we know what happens to Palmer. He drops off severely. In those two years Palmer is 60 and 25 in TD-INT, 7,871 in passing yards, and had a completion percentage of 65.05% While that is an incredible number, you have to look at his rookie year, just like you look at Dalton's. In his rookie year, Palmer went 18-18 in TD-INT, had 2,897 yards, with a 60.9% completion percentage. Now considering that Palmer did miss 3 games, you have to account for those three games statistically, as Dalton started all his games in rookie year. Palmer would have ended up roughly 22-22, with 3,565 yards, and a close completion percentage(barring something wild.) Dalton in his first year threw for 20-13 TD-INT, getting 3,398 yards, and a 58.1% completion percentage.

 

Palmer in his first two years 50-30 TD-INT, 6,733 yards, and a completion percentage of 64.35%

Dalton however, produced 47-29 TD-INT, 7,067 yards, and a 60.2% completion percentage. Pretty similar, huh? Now if Palmer had played those three games at the end of his rookie season? 54-34, 7,401 yards, and a similar completion percentage.

 

From here though? We know what happens to Palmer. We don't know what happens to Dalton. An improved offense that rivals that of Palmer's, possibly better. A better defense. Dalton is like Palmer in his first two years, but we know that Palmer declines. That's why Dalton is the better choice in the end. He might not make the plays that Palmer would make, or be able to put as many points up, but he can lead the team and have solid games without making as many mistakes. Palmer has been in the spot to win playoff games before, and he has failed. Dalton has done the same thing, but he still has a lot of time left, and is still progressing. Yeah, it's a make or break year, but I believe in Dalton. Bengals also have a much better running attack now than they did back in the Palmer era. Statistically speaking, if we can win the division back then, we can win it now.

[CribbsForTheWin 117]

Marvin Lewis is 79 win, 80 loses in 10 years as the coach of the Bengals. Andy Dalton is 0-2 in the playoffs. Dalton is a solid quarterback during the regular season, then drops a big, fat, smelly turd in the middle of the field during the playoffs. Bengals got talent. But you are not going very far with a QB who cant win the big game, and a coach in Lewis that is about as mediocre as you can get.

 

The same Andy Dalton that is only two years in the league? Well yeah he doesnt have any wins, but has taken his team to the playoffs twice, in two years. On top of that, two games is a little few to be basing a player on, no?

 

I also wasnt aware that the playoffs had to do anything with who wins the AFC North.

[Omerta+ 1,206]

All of that is impressive statistically but there are a few holes.

 

First you talk stats about Palmer when that is not really in question. The Palmer Era you forget we had Kyl fucking boller as QB so yeah... That all has almost absolutely zero relevancy to the division as it is today. Palmer, Housh, and Johnson are all gone and these teams have morphed into almost completely different entities since then.

 

Second, how do we know that the Andy Dalton we see now is not the one you guys are to have the rest of his career ? I saw no real improvement from him on any part of his game. Thus far all he has proved is he is above average and that he can throw to AJ Green (not really hard to do). You have the advantage of hindsight with Palmer but what if this is the best Dalton is to do ? Good luck with the division crown.

 

Third. Your front office has put together some impressive drafts the last few years. Baltimore and Pittsburgh have been doing that for AT LEAST a decade. When you have to sign all these cats and FA is always ass raping you because you dont have enough money for all your stars then what ? You will have to find immediate contributors in the draft and AJ Greens are not bought at walmart. Baltimore has its nucleus paid for on lucrative deals, you dont. What happens in a few years when you have to pay Atkins, Dalton, Green, Eifert, Kirkpatrick, and the other guys. Again Baltimore and Pitt have proved they can do this, you guys have not. Not saying you cant but, before I bow down to the Bengals you have got to show me longevity.

 

Fourth. I am not sure how Pitt fans feel about the future or this season, but I can assure you Baltimore fans feel pretty damn good about it. The only perceived weakness we have is wide receiver which could turn into a serious strength. The Steelers have LeBeau and Big Ben. Every team in this division is better than they were the year before and I have seen nothing signature from the Bengals to show me they have leap frogged anybody. Our defense will be far better than it was last year and it wont be close. Dumervil >>> Kruger, Webb >>>Williams, and our d line rotation just got much better. With the steelers I am not sure but I wluld not put it past them either, both Worlids and McClendon are guys who could be better/more reliable than there predecessors.

 

So all that being said this whole bandwagon hype for the Bengals is all fine and good but I can bet you Marvin Lewis will definitely prepare just a little harder for those games because those are two very dangerous teams. Now will we win the division ? I dont know it is one of the toughest in football and Baltimore and Pitt have this bad habit of beating the hell out of each other every year and weakening each other so yeah I would not be surprised if the Bengals COULD, but I will go with history until the Ravens or the Steelers show me they are no longer competitive within the AFCN.

[Cherry 1,302]

The same Andy Dalton that is only two years in the league? Well yeah he doesnt have any wins, but has taken his team to the playoffs twice, in two years. On top of that, two games is a little few to be basing a player on, no?

 

I also wasnt aware that the playoffs had to do anything with who wins the AFC North.

 

I'd take a QB that has been in two playoff games over one that hasn't played in any. I never claimed that the playoffs had an effect on who wins the AFC North. It's pretty well known that the playoffs are a whole new season. The Ravens and Steelers usually turn up once they get into the second season, not even gonna deny that. If it was the Bengals and the Ravens or Steelers in the playoffs, I would think the Steelers or Ravens would go farther, just by history, but when it comes to who wins the AFC North? I think Cincinnati has the best shot.

[Cherry 1,302]

Second, how do we know that the Andy Dalton we see now is not the one you guys are to have the rest of his career ? I saw no real improvement from him on any part of his game. Thus far all he has proved is he is above average and that he can throw to AJ Green (not really hard to do). You have the advantage of hindsight with Palmer but what if this is the best Dalton is to do ? Good luck with the division crown.

Adding more weapons usually helps a quarterback. AJ Green is the go to guy for Dalton, but Bernard and Eifert are going to make a hell of an impact on the ability of the offense. The more Dalton plays and gets adjusted to the offense, the better he will get. I personally can see him pulling a 30-35 TD 10-15 INT season. It's not too far-fetched. For all we know, Dalton may end up just like Palmer, but I'd take a chance on somebody who is still a wild card, as to somebody who falls off the map after the first three years. That's what longevity means in a team, right? A team that doesn't fall down after a good year or two.

[Dutch 874]

I'd take a QB that has been in two playoff games over one that hasn't played in any. I never claimed that the playoffs had an effect on who wins the AFC North. It's pretty well known that the playoffs are a whole new season. The Ravens and Steelers usually turn up once they get into the second season, not even gonna deny that. If it was the Bengals and the Ravens or Steelers in the playoffs, I would think the Steelers or Ravens would go farther, just by history, but when it comes to who wins the AFC North? I think Cincinnati has the best shot.

 

It sounds like he was defending the Bengals.

 

 

The same Andy Dalton that is only two years in the league? Well yeah he doesnt have any wins, but has taken his team to the playoffs twice, in two years. On top of that, two games is a little few to be basing a player on, no?

 

I also wasnt aware that the playoffs had to do anything with who wins the AFC North.

[Omerta+ 1,206]

Adding more weapons usually helps a quarterback. AJ Green is the go to guy for Dalton, but Bernard and Eifert are going to make a hell of an impact on the ability of the offense. The more Dalton plays and gets adjusted to the offense, the better he will get. I personally can see him pulling a 30-35 TD 10-15 INT season. It's not too far-fetched. For all we know, Dalton may end up just like Palmer, but I'd take a chance on somebody who is still a wild card, as to somebody who falls off the map after the first three years. That's what longevity means in a team, right? A team that doesn't fall down after a good year or two.

 

You're putting lipstick on a pig. He is not all that great if he has to be surrounded by all pros. I would not want that to be what I had to count on for the guy to be great.

 

And if you can see that kind of season, wearing the same glasses I could see a repeat.

[terpmaniac 19]

The same Andy Dalton that is only two years in the league? Well yeah he doesnt have any wins, but has taken his team to the playoffs twice, in two years. On top of that, two games is a little few to be basing a player on, no?

 

I also wasnt aware that the playoffs had to do anything with who wins the AFC North.

 

Cincy went in the last two years as a WILD CARD, not as the AFC NORTH champion. I am not hating on the bengals or Dalton but c'mon you are what your record says you are one AFC North title in 5 years and 0-playoff wins. You want Dalton to take the next step, well this is his year to do it because that schedule is NOT EASY! Win the damn division, win a playoff game, that WILL SHUT ME UP!

[Omerta+ 1,206]

Cincy went in the last two years as a WILD CARD, not as the AFC NORTH champion. I am not hating on the bengals or Dalton but c'mon you are what your record says you are one AFC North title in 5 years and 0-playoff wins. You want Dalton to take the next step, well this is his year to do it because that schedule is NOT EASY! Win the damn division, win a playoff game, that WILL SHUT ME UP!

 

Agreed on all accounts but the bolded area. The Browns record say they are a bad team, I dont buy that for a second to be honest.

[Cherry 1,302]

You're putting lipstick on a pig. He is not all that great if he has to be surrounded by all pros. I would not want that to be what I had to count on for the guy to be great.

 

And if you can see that kind of season, wearing the same glasses I could see a repeat.

 

An elite QB doesn't need multiple weapons, but Dalton isn't gonna be truly elite. He's servicable. If we load him up on weapons, we have a much better chance. Look at Bradford. If he had more weapons he could possibly sneak into top 10 conversations. An elite QB makes a receiver good. An elite WR makes a QB good(a bit different but similar). We have Green as our elite WR. Now we just need pressure off him.

[Omerta+ 1,206]

An elite QB doesn't need multiple weapons, but Dalton isn't gonna be truly elite. He's servicable. If we load him up on weapons, we have a much better chance. Look at Bradford. If he had more weapons he could possibly sneak into top 10 conversations. An elite QB makes a receiver good. An elite WR makes a QB good(a bit different but similar). We have Green as our elite WR. Now we just need pressure off him.

 

If he is just going to be serviceable then you need to build a 85 bears, 2000 Ravens, 76 steelers, or 06 steelers defense because that is the only way serviceable dudes work.

[Cherry 1,302]

If he is just going to be serviceable then you need to build a 85 bears, 2000 Ravens, 76 steelers, or 06 steelers defense because that is the only way serviceable dudes work.

 

A good defense + AJ Green. I think we can do something decent with it.

[Zack_of_Steel+ 3,014]

If he is just going to be serviceable then you need to build a 85 bears, 2000 Ravens, 76 steelers, or 06 steelers defense because that is the only way serviceable dudes work.

 

*08 Steelers, but yeah.

[Wes 1]

First of all let me say that I believe that the AFC North is phenotype the most competitive divisions in the NFL by far. Having said that, I DO believe the Bengals are.being sorely overrated. I find it hard to give a team props that has been around as long as they have and continually found ways to fail. Dalton is no Esiason and he couldn't get it done either.

 

The Ravens, to me, are going to be right there fighting for the division at the end of the season. My pick for the division is the Pittsburgh Steelers who I believe are going to shock some people with a 12-4, 11-5 record.

 

I do not believe the Bengals will make the playoffs unless it is as the 3rd AFCN team, 2nd Wildcard. Could I be wrong? Absolutely. But the Steelers don't have six rings and more playoff appearances than most of the AFCN combined for no reason..