Rank the Big Guys

[KempBolt 498]

I'm making one top 10 list for both 3-4 defensive linemen and 4-3 defensive tackles. That covers about 80 starting positions across the league, so narrowing it was pretty difficult.

 

1. J.J. Watt, 3-4 DE So obvious. I think his 2012 season can fairly be considered in the conversation for best defensive campaign ever.

 

2. Geno Atkins, 4-3 DT Atkins dominated last year in all aspects of the game and he's not susceptible to the lapses in gap integrity that penetrators often are.

 

3. Justin Smith, 3-4 DE Fully capable of making negative plays on his own and elite in terms of creating opportunities for teammates.

 

4. Calais Campbell, 3-4 DE Campbell now has a track record as one of the best pass rushers in a 3-4, and in 2012 he translated that dominance to the run game.

 

5. Kyle Williams, 3-4 NT Not sure exactly what position Williams is playing this season, but I do know that he is one of the most underrated players in the league. Tough run defender and a fantastic pass rusher.

 

6. Ndamukong Suh, 4-3 DT Suh has somehow gone from being overrated to being underrated. He was a force last season and looks poised to keep that up.

 

7. Haloti Ngata, 3-4 DE Had a down year playing through injury, but he dominates in both facets when he's healthy. Looking forward to seeing him healthy again in 2013.

 

8. Vince Wilfork, 4-3 DT :Patriots: Wilfork isn't much of a pass rusher in his own right, but he creates a lot of chances for others and no one can run through his gap(s).

 

9. Gerald McCoy, 4-3 DT McCoy was finally healthy in 2012 and it showed. He was one of the best 3 techniques anywhere and should move up this list as long as the injury bug stays away.

 

10. Muhammad Wilkerson, 3-4 DE One of the most underrated players anywhere, Wilkerson is extremely versatile and consistently wins his matchups in both the run and pass game.

 

Up and Comers These are youngsters who I can see forcing their way onto this list soon, as older players begin aging off:

 

-Corey Liuget, 3-4 DE

 

-Henry Melton, 4-3 DT

 

-Nick Fairley, 4-3 DT

[Attyla the Hawk 197]

I think you need Chris Long in there. He's quietly put together 2 consecutive outstanding seasons. Definitely above Wilkerson and McCoy.

[Dutch 874]

I think you need Chris Long in there. He's quietly put together 2 consecutive outstanding seasons. Definitely above Wilkerson and McCoy.

 

This list consist of the big guys; 3-4 defensive ends and 4-3 defensive tackles. Long is a 4-3 defensive end.

 

My list:

 

1. J.J Watt

 

2. Geno Atkins

 

3. Justin Smith

 

4. Ndamukong Suh

 

5. Haloti Ngata

 

6. Calais Campbell

 

7. Kyle Williams

 

8. Vince Wilfork :Patriots:

 

9. Gerald Mccoy

 

10. Muhammad Wilkerson

 

Honorable Mentions:

 

Henry Melton

 

Nick Fairly

 

Fletcher Cox I'm somewhat reaching having Cox here but I just wanted to give him some recognition for a very good and under the radar rookie year.

 

Fletcher started 9 games and had 32 tackles, 24 QB hurries, 5.5 sacks, 5 pass deflects (6th among DT's) 8 TFL (6th). Fletcher has a way to go before he reaches this list but he's on track.

Edited July 16, 2013 by dutchff7

[RazorStar 4,025]

Lots of players to choose from, if I may, I'm going to do a top at 3-4 DE, 3-4 NT, and 4-3 DT

 

4-3 DT

1. Geno Atkins (Reminds me of John Randle, what a beast)

2. Henry Melton (Might be a bit of a surprising pick, but I like the way he gets up the field. I really wanted him to be a Bronco this year, but we can't win em all.)

3. Gerald McCoy (He needs to stay healthy, but he's a hell of a player when healthy.)

4. Kyle Williams (Buffalo, where underrated players live.)

5. Ndamukong Suh (I was trying to think of other players, honest. However there are a lot of young guys who aren't there yet, some players who are more 3-4 DE's than 4-3 DT's, and Kevin Williams is getting old. Therefore we'll go with a guy who has greatly improved his game in both the run and pass.)

 

Honorable mentions: Brandon Mebane, Nick Fairley, Kevin Williams, Randy Starks, Vince Wilfork

 

3-4 DE

1. JJ Watt (Obvious. This is what you get when you combine Howie Long and Reggie White.)

2. Muhammad Wilkerson (Tough choice for number 2, but there are seriously good 3-4 DE's playing now.)

3. Calais Campbell (Chunky SOUP!)

4. Justin Smith (Slowing down just a little bit, but he might still be the best player on their defense. Ok second best at absolute worst, I don't want to sell Patrick Willis short.)

5. Haloti Ngata. (In what universe can I be justified putting this manimal at only number 5? So many good young DE's out in the league now.)

 

Honorable mentions: Antonio Smith, Corey Liuget, Ray McDonald, Mike DeVito

 

3-4 NT

1. Dan Williams

2. Ryan Pickett

3. Barry Cofield

4. Steve McClendon

5. Phil Taylor

 

Honorable Mention: Kenrick Ellis

 

I'm not high on the 3-4 Nose tackles in this league. Dan Williams is good, but not spectacular like the other interior linemen on this list. Taylor has potential, and McClendon is probably gonna be number one at the end of the season, but otherwise I don't feel like any 3-4 Nose should be mentioned with the top tier defensive linemen.

[KempBolt 498]

This list consist of the big guys; 3-4 defensive ends and 4-3 defensive tackles. Long is a 4-3 defensive end.

 

My list:

 

1. J.J Watt

 

2. Geno Atkins

 

3. Justin Smith

 

4. Ndamukong Suh

 

5. Haloti Ngata

 

6. Calais Campbell

 

7. Kyle Williams

 

8. Vince Wilfork :Patriots:

 

9. Gerald Mccoy

 

10. Muhammad Wilkerson

 

Honorable Mentions:

 

Henry Melton

 

Nick Fairly

 

Fletcher Cox I'm somewhat reaching having Cox here but I just wanted to give him some recognition for a very good and under the radar rookie year.

 

Fletcher started 9 games and had 32 tackles, 24 QB hurries, 5.5 sacks, 5 pass deflects (6th among DT's) 8 TFL (6th). Fletcher has a way to go before he reaches this list but he's on track.

 

Same exact list in slightly different order. What's that they say about great minds?

 

I like Cox quite a bit. I loved him coming out last year and thought he was a natural fit for 3-4 end, so good on the Eagles for having him as they transition.

 

Similarly, I'm excited to see what Kendall Reyes does in his second year. His playing time was limiting like Cox's (50% of the defensive snaps vs 49%). He had 6 sacks, 10 QB hits, and 33 hurries. He really turned it on during the 2nd half of the season, which leads me to believe that a big 2nd year could be coming.

[KempBolt 498]

I think you need Chris Long in there. He's quietly put together 2 consecutive outstanding seasons. Definitely above Wilkerson and McCoy.

 

Long plays in a 4-3. I ranked him 7th in that regard here:

 

http://www.thegridironpalace.com/forums/index.php?/topic/65936-top-ten-pass-rushers/

[KempBolt 498]

Lots of players to choose from, if I may, I'm going to do a top at 3-4 DE, 3-4 NT, and 4-3 DT

 

4-3 DT

1. Geno Atkins (Reminds me of John Randle, what a beast)

2. Henry Melton (Might be a bit of a surprising pick, but I like the way he gets up the field. I really wanted him to be a Bronco this year, but we can't win em all.)

3. Gerald McCoy (He needs to stay healthy, but he's a hell of a player when healthy.)

4. Kyle Williams (Buffalo, where underrated players live.)

5. Ndamukong Suh (I was trying to think of other players, honest. However there are a lot of young guys who aren't there yet, some players who are more 3-4 DE's than 4-3 DT's, and Kevin Williams is getting old. Therefore we'll go with a guy who has greatly improved his game in both the run and pass.)

 

Honorable mentions: Brandon Mebane, Nick Fairley, Kevin Williams, Randy Starks, Vince Wilfork

 

3-4 DE

1. JJ Watt (Obvious. This is what you get when you combine Howie Long and Reggie White.)

2. Muhammad Wilkerson (Tough choice for number 2, but there are seriously good 3-4 DE's playing now.)

3. Calais Campbell (Chunky SOUP!)

4. Justin Smith (Slowing down just a little bit, but he might still be the best player on their defense. Ok second best at absolute worst, I don't want to sell Patrick Willis short.)

5. Haloti Ngata. (In what universe can I be justified putting this manimal at only number 5? So many good young DE's out in the league now.)

 

Honorable mentions: Antonio Smith, Corey Liuget, Ray McDonald, Mike DeVito

 

3-4 NT

1. Dan Williams

2. Ryan Pickett

3. Barry Cofield

4. Steve McClendon

5. Phil Taylor

 

Honorable Mention: Kenrick Ellis

 

I'm not high on the 3-4 Nose tackles in this league. Dan Williams is good, but not spectacular like the other interior linemen on this list. Taylor has potential, and McClendon is probably gonna be number one at the end of the season, but otherwise I don't feel like any 3-4 Nose should be mentioned with the top tier defensive linemen.

 

I too have issues with the overall talent at NT in this league right now. Though I do think Cam Thomas stands a chance to break out in 2013. He's been every bit as good or better than McLendon as his role has grown, and not the starting job is his. But as far as a #1, I think that Phil Taylor may have that sewn up by season's end.

[DonovanMcnabb for H.O.F 2,241]

1. J.J Watt

2. Justin Smith

3. Geno Atkins

4. Calais Campbell

5. Ndamukong Suh

6. Haloti Ngata

7. Kyle Williams

8. Vince Wilfork

9. Gerald Mccoy

10. Muhammad Wilkerson

 

Wilkerson going back to his natural position could cause him to leap frog into the top 5.

[Crash 105]

I think you need Chris Long in there. He's quietly put together 2 consecutive outstanding seasons. Definitely above Wilkerson and McCoy.

Chris long is a enigma. Does he really deserve the praise heaped on him? Idk, I don't hold pass rushers who specifically rush the right tackle in as high regard as ones who move around or rush on the left. I think Quinn deserves more praise then long

 

I'm curious to see if Darnell docket returns to form now that he will be back to rushing the passer more and not regulated to containment and run support. They should just unleash those two DE like what wade Phillips does in his 3-4

Edited July 16, 2013 by Zack_of_Steel

[housemd 338]

1. JJ Watt

2. Geno Atkins

3. Justin Smith

4. Haloti Ngata

5. Calais Campbell

6. Ndamukong Suh

7. Vince Wilfork

8. Kyle Williams

9. Gerald McCoy

10. Muhammad Wilkerson

[KempBolt 498]

Interesting- everyone has the same 10 guys in their lists. Order just varies.

[DonovanMcnabb for H.O.F 2,241]

Chris long is a enigma. Does he really deserve the praise heaped on him? Idk, I don't hold pass rushers who specifically rush the right tackle in as high regard as ones who move around or rush on the left. I think Quinn deserves more praise then long

 

I'm curious to see if Darnell docket returns to form now that he will be back to rushing the passer more and not regulated to containment and run support. They should just unleash those two DE like what wade Phillips does in his 3-4

I'm not a fan of PFF's "hurry" stat, and they are extremely generous with handing it out, but its crazy how many he gets awarded with and the sacks are just never there. His run defense is pretty good... but I do agree that he is an enigma.

 

 

 

I know I know, getting off topic and shit.

[lordnate 6]

I have to co-sign with the OP. Very good list.

[KempBolt 498]

Chris long is a enigma. Does he really deserve the praise heaped on him? Idk, I don't hold pass rushers who specifically rush the right tackle in as high regard as ones who move around or rush on the left. I think Quinn deserves more praise then long

 

I'm curious to see if Darnell docket returns to form now that he will be back to rushing the passer more and not regulated to containment and run support. They should just unleash those two DE like what wade Phillips does in his 3-4

 

The majority of Miller's pass rush snaps are against right tackles.

 

Basically every last one of these clips as him going against the RT. And his spot in the base D is at SOLB, lined up shaded over the RT.

 

http://www.grantland.com/blog/the-triangle/post/_/id/69094/48-day-nfl-warning-von-millers-top-10-of-2012

[OSUViking 505]

Kemp: I don't disagree with your assessment, but I'm curious as to what your assessment of Kevin Williams is.

[KempBolt 498]

Kemp: I don't disagree with your assessment, but I'm curious as to what your assessment of Kevin Williams is.

 

Excellent UT still. He just missed, and I didn't mention him at the bottom because he's fading out rather than ascending like those younger guys. Definitely still in my top 15. And if this were 4 years ago, he'd be in the top 5.

[OSUViking 505]

Excellent UT still. He just missed, and I didn't mention him at the bottom because he's fading out rather than ascending like those younger guys. Definitely still in my top 15. And if this were 4 years ago, he'd be in the top 5.

 

Thanks, for the response. I wish I could contribute more to your threads other than just one-liner questions, but my football IQ isn't very high.

[KempBolt 498]

Thanks, for the response. I wish I could contribute more to your threads other than just one-liner questions, but my football IQ isn't very high.

 

Asking questions is what it's all about. It's the only way to learn.

[BradyFan81 404]

1. JJ Watt - just an absolute beast

2. Geno Atkins

3. Haloti Ngata - Just... crazy strong

4. Justin Smith

5. Ndomukong Suh - I'm a pretty big Suh fan, one of the elites at getting to the QB.

6. Calais Campbell

7. Vince Wilfork :Patriots: - Great against the run and pretty decent against the pass too.

8. Gerald McCoy - Has to stay on the field more but a great combination of run stopping and pass rushing ability.

9. Kyle Williams - Definitely an underrated player, this guy scares the crap out of me when the Pats play them.

10. Muhammad Wilkerson - Great young player, looks like he will be a beast against the run.

[seanbrock 1,684]

How do so many of you have Suh ahead of Wilkerson and Ngata. He's maybe not even as good as Fairley. The dude is an incredibly gifted athlete who could be number 1, but it just hasn't quite worked out that way. At this point he's one of the more overrated players in the game. I don't watch a lot of Lions games admittedly but he's never really impressed much.

[KempBolt 498]

You can make the case for Wilkerson, though he's only played at last year's elite level for one season. Suh has been about where he's at for two years now. Ngata as well I suppose, though he was playing hurt and wasn't nearly as effective last year. But Fairley? C'mon, that's ridiculous.

[DonovanMcnabb for H.O.F 2,241]

How do so many of you have Suh ahead of Wilkerson and Ngata. He's maybe not even as good as Fairley. The dude is an incredibly gifted athlete who could be number 1, but it just hasn't quite worked out that way. At this point he's one of the more overrated players in the game. I don't watch a lot of Lions games admittedly but he's never really impressed much.

 

You are living in the past if you don't think he was an elite DT this past season. He dominated arguably the best line in the NFL against Houston in both the running and passing game.

Edited July 20, 2013 by DonovanMcnabb for H.O.F

[AL_Royalty 489]

You are living in the past if you don't think he was an elite DT this past season. He dominated arguably the best line in the NFL against Houston in both the running and passing game.

You have to remember that this is a site full of free thinkers. Many folks here have their own opinions and pride themselves on not following all the other sheep, which is what makes this site great. However, a black sheep is still a sheep of a different color, and at times the result is wide-spread beliefs like Suh is SOOOO overrated, Luck sucks, and Peyton Manning is a bum. I've dubbed it the anti-ESPN movement.

 

Suh is a monster, and he has BEEN a monster since he came into the league. Just because a guy is hyped up doesn't make him an overrated loser. Sometimes—hell, many times—the hype is there for a reason. In Suh's case, the reason being that he's a big ol' beast. A bag of crazy with a motor that doesn't stop, a passion that is unrivaled, and a talent level that may one day leave his bust in Canton. It's gonna take some added success and a career blessed with limited injury, but the talent level is there.

 

That being said, I think that Defensive linemen are the hardest to rank accurately. With that in mind, here are my ten, in no particular order:

 

Justin Smith, Ngata, SUH, Wilfork, J.J., Geno, Kyle Williams, Phil Taylor, Keisel, Calais Campbell. I'm sure someone is going to give me shit for putting Taylor up there, but I like him. He eats up blockers and is one hell of a tackle. My list, my guy.

 

On my used-to-beast list, still like 'em but not as special as they used to be:

 

Seymour, Kevin Williams, Sean Rodgers, B.J. Raji.

 

Dontari Poe was pretty sad last season, but I look for him to play better and have a bit of a breakout season in 2013. I don't know that he'll ever be good enough to be mentioned with these other guys, but as a Chiefs fan I'm rooting for him. The guy that I AM expecting big things from is Glenn Dorsey. He's on one of the best defensive front sevens in the game, and that could work wonders for his career. He's always played with good LB's, but now he's not the only competent player on the DL. Watch out for Glenn, guys.

[KempBolt 498]

You have to remember that this is a site full of free thinkers. Many folks here have their own opinions and pride themselves on not following all the other sheep, which is what makes this site great. However, a black sheep is still a sheep of a different color, and at times the result is wide-spread beliefs like Suh is SOOOO overrated, Luck sucks, and Peyton Manning is a bum. I've dubbed it the anti-ESPN movement.

 

Suh is a monster, and he has BEEN a monster since he came into the league. Just because a guy is hyped up doesn't make him an overrated loser. Sometimes—hell, many times—the hype is there for a reason. In Suh's case, the reason being that he's a big ol' beast. A bag of crazy with a motor that doesn't stop, a passion that is unrivaled, and a talent level that may one day leave his bust in Canton. It's gonna take some added success and a career blessed with limited injury, but the talent level is there.

 

That being said, I think that Defensive linemen are the hardest to rank accurately. With that in mind, here are my ten, in no particular order:

 

Justin Smith, Ngata, SUH, Wilfork, J.J., Geno, Kyle Williams, Phil Taylor, Keisel, Calais Campbell. I'm sure someone is going to give me shit for putting Taylor up there, but I like him. He eats up blockers and is one hell of a tackle. My list, my guy.

 

On my used-to-beast list, still like 'em but not as special as they used to be:

 

Seymour, Kevin Williams, Sean Rodgers, B.J. Raji.

 

Dontari Poe was pretty sad last season, but I look for him to play better and have a bit of a breakout season in 2013. I don't know that he'll ever be good enough to be mentioned with these other guys, but as a Chiefs fan I'm rooting for him. The guy that I AM expecting big things from is Glenn Dorsey. He's on one of the best defensive front sevens in the game, and that could work wonders for his career. He's always played with good LB's, but now he's not the only competent player on the DL. Watch out for Glenn, guys.

 

I think Suh actually was overrated after his rookie season. He produced a whole lot of negative plays, but in his eagerness to do so he forsook gap discipline and gave up a whole lot of big plays as well. Detroit was 24th in both total rushing yardage allowed as well as YPC in 2010, and much of that was due to Suh's glory-seeking style of play.

 

So I think after that season, the more skeptical football fans among us dubbed him overrated. But then he went on in 2011 and 2012 to correct a lot of those issues and turn in fantastic, balanced seasons. And I think some of those "overrated" perceptions from his rookie season are lingering- not yet having caught up to the reality that Suh has continually improved.

 

Reminds me a lot of Jairus Byrd. His 10 pick rookie season caused his actual cover skills to be overrated, but he promptly improved to catch up to the hype.

 

As for your list- I think Keisel is a fair addition and I'm also high on Taylor. But I do think it's unfair to leave off McCoy and Wilkerson after having absolutely superb seasons. I can see making the case for McCoy since it was his first dominant campaign, but Wilkerson was very good in 2011 and then stellar in 2012. But like you said- your list.

 

I'm not going to lie, I did cartwheels when the Chiefs took Poe. He was one of my least favorite prospects in the draft. Workout warrior who merely held his own again Sun Belt Conference competition.

[DonovanMcnabb for H.O.F 2,241]

You have to remember that this is a site full of free thinkers. Many folks here have their own opinions and pride themselves on not following all the other sheep, which is what makes this site great. However, a black sheep is still a sheep of a different color, and at times the result is wide-spread beliefs like Suh is SOOOO overrated, Luck sucks, and Peyton Manning is a bum. I've dubbed it the anti-ESPN movement.

 

Yea I hate it when Kemp and Dutch say this stuff.