2014 NASCAR Season Discussion

[oochymp 2,393]

SI has a great write-up of the potential legal consequences that could come from the Stewart incident for anyone interested: Tony Stewart faces several possible legal consequences in wake of fatal accident - Racing - SI.com

[Bucman 891]

Our justice system is such shit that even if he is found not guilty of any if this. His family will still win a wrongful death suit.

[oochymp 2,393]

honestly this is a case in which I think he actually stands a better chance of getting cleared civilly rather than criminally because the fact that Ward walked out onto the track holds a lot more weight as contributory negligence in a civil case than criminal, that said if Ward's family even threatens to sue I'm sure Stewart will settle out of court to avoid the increased attention that would come with a civil trial

[BwareDWare94 723]

Sprint cars are more complicated than stock cars, and people need to understand this. You steer a sprint car (at high speeds, anyway) with the throttle, because of the size difference in the back tires. You can't just veer on a dime in a turn unless you see the obstruction and have time to hit the brakes. It just doesn't work that way. You have to turn the wheel to go forward on the straightaway, for fuck's sake.

 

This would be so much simpler in a standard stock car, of some sort.

[Glanvilles Grits 142]

This picture is exactly what I'm talking about, and I'm extremely glad someone took the time to post one up on my timeline.

 

[oochymp 2,393]

Tony Stewart is skipping Michigan too, still wish NASCAR would go ahead and suspend him at least for the duration of the season

[BwareDWare94 723]

I understand that it's seen as the right move to suspend him, but as an avid sprint racing fan who's watched the video multiple times, knows how those cars drive, the view out of them, etc, I find it hard to believe that NASCAR wants to suspend a driver for being the poor bastard whose car a kid ran underneath.

 

I just don't see it happening. Initially, I was questioning Stewart, but after thinking about it...Ward pretty much got himself killed, imo.

[Bucman 891]

Stewart past is whats haunting him in this situation.

[Glanvilles Grits 142]

Suspend him for what? Stewart did nothing wrong in the situation. Sorry, but I'm starting to believe that people are complete morons. What's better is the fact that since this happened, millions of race car specialists have popped up, even though they've never been behidn the wheel of a racecar.

 

No offense, and I understand Ward died and it's a terrible tragedy, but if he wasn't acting like such an asshat and ran in front of a sprint car, this wouldn't have happened. Truth is, the kid raced in sprint cars and he should have known that they are one of the most unpredictable and difficult to control race cars in the sport. Only a jackass does what he did. We've seen drivers do such things before, but never have they tried to get so close. I honestly after continuing to watch the videos over and over all week wonder if it wasn't somewhat in Wards plan to get hit or "nearly missed" so he could outcry to the media about Tony Stewart. The kid was upset he got the sprint car equivalent of dumped when Stewarts car ran up the track. It was a racing deal in the first place, it wasn't an intentional wreck.

 

A little education for you guys who think you know how sprint cars work and the viewline you get, but really don't know anything at all about it:

http://www.foxsports.com/nascar/video/erin-evernham-on-how-winged-sprint-cars-work-081414?vid=318236739524

[oochymp 2,393]

I watched that video, and it didn't change my opinion at all, which is that Tony Stewart may not have intended to hit Ward (I certainly don't think he intended to kill him) but he could have avoided the accident.

 

Here are a few undeniable truths regarding the incident, that hopefully we won't have to discuss again:

Ward was an absolute idiot for walking onto the track and approaching the cars

Stewart is an excellent driver with a lot of experience in sprint cars

Stewart knew that there was a wreck and where it occurred (I think this is a very safe assumption since he was part of the wreck)

The car in front of Stewart's dove to the bottom of the track in the area of the wreck

 

from these facts, I conclude that even if Stewart didn't know Ward was on the track, he should have known something was wrong in that area of the track, I've seen the posts here about visibility so I will grant that he might not have seen Ward, but he knew where the wreck was and should have been looking really carefully in that area, anything could happen, for example a piece of either car could be sitting in the track, so once he saw the driver in front of him dive to the low line Stewart should have followed

 

I certainly agree that Ward's inexplicable decision to get out of his car and confront Stewart while Stewart was still driving around the track was a contributing factor, possibly the largest contributing factor, to the collision, but I still think from what I've seen that Stewart could have avoided it, and that's why I don't think he should be in another NASCAR race this year

[Glanvilles Grits 142]

Stewart was about 20 feet from where the wrecked car was. How you can say that he "knew where the wreck was and didn't care" is beyond me.

 

The car in front of Stewart went to the line that Stewart was in FROM THE START. Stewart never moved because he was as low on the racing surface as you can go at that race track.

Do you know anything about the track? Ever been there? I don't think anyone that has never been there can formulate an educated opinion. You couldn't have moved any lower on that track than Stewart already was, I've been there, I've known people who have raced on the track. Ward literally ran from the wall to what the drivers call the "no-zone".

 

I'll hold my stance that people who don't know how race cars - in specific divisions - work shouldn't formulate an opinion. At that point their just arm-chair analysts. It's not the same as analyzing a stick and ball sport, the human body always moves the same, all race cars are different.

[Favre4Ever+ 4,476]

All bodies move the same... Yikes. Can't say you are very on-point with that one. Just like in cars, bodies come in different shapes, sizes, and varying degrees of durability. Heck, those cars are more similar to each other and regulated than any two people are.

Also, I don't want to put words into your mouth... However, it does seem like you are projecting an image that there is only one path around that track that Tony Stewart could have followed. I have never been to that track, never will... I don't follow that division of racing, never will. There are multiple "lanes" and paths around EVERY track in all divisions of racing, though.

Yes, it most definitely was possible for Tony Stewart to take a lower 'lane' or path around that corner, even knowing these cars are meant to tail or whip around corners more than a stock car. Now, saying that.. I am not insinuating that because he took a higher path around that corner that he intentionally hit Ward (although, yes I have made that opinion apparent previously)... But strictly talking about the physics and dynamics of racing, your post is inherently incorrect.

If I made any assumptions or what have you, I do apologize.

 

[oochymp 2,393]

The car in front of Stewart went to the line that Stewart was in FROM THE START. Stewart never moved because he was as low on the racing surface as you can go at that race track.

 

I just rewatched the video and that is entirely false, the driver in front of Stewart approaches on the same line as Stewart but drops down on the track as he approaches, Stewart drifts upward (to be fair, it was hard to tell if Stewart drifted up prior to hitting Ward, it may have been a reaction to the collision)

 

You make it sound like Ward came out and laid down in front of Stewart's car, sure Ward was an idiot for walking out on the track, but that didn't make the collision inevitable, if I'm at a gun range and there's a guy walking among the targets, that guy's being an idiot, but it doesn't excuse me if I shoot him

[oochymp 2,393]

In other NASCAR news, there's three races left before the Chase and only 12 different winners meaning that at least one driver will get in on points, good news for Kenseth in spite of a rough race this afternoon

Edited August 17, 2014 by oochymp

[Milla4Prez63 678]

Kurt ruined a top 5 day by getting too aggressive going for the win at the end, thankfully he's pretty much a chase lock but it just sucks to see him so low in points because of constant mishaps rather than having bad cars.

[Glanvilles Grits 142]

I just rewatched the video and that is entirely false, the driver in front of Stewart approaches on the same line as Stewart but drops down on the track as he approaches, Stewart drifts upward (to be fair, it was hard to tell if Stewart drifted up prior to hitting Ward, it may have been a reaction to the collision)

 

You make it sound like Ward came out and laid down in front of Stewart's car, sure Ward was an idiot for walking out on the track, but that didn't make the collision inevitable, if I'm at a gun range and there's a guy walking among the targets, that guy's being an idiot, but it doesn't excuse me if I shoot him

 

It's not false at all. Stewarts car didn't move until he had already hit Ward. The car in front of him maintained the same line. The movement you saw was from the driver in that car hitting the throttle which kicked the rear end, just as Erin Evernham explains in the video I linked you to. His line never changed. The fact the rear of the car kicked out may lead you to believe that, but it's not the case.

 

I'm just going to continue to re-iterate that people need to learn how race cars actually react to driver reactions.

 

The only comment I said about Ward was that you have to wonder if he wasn't trying to get in Stewarts way and provoke him into doing something more. You drive a race car every weekend, you know your boundaries, you know what buttons to push and when to lay back on someone. You DONT rush a race car, not that far down the track. Sorry, I've been in a race car, I have friends who still are in racecars every week and share the frustrations that Ward was feeling that night. it's really tough for me to show any support toward Ward after watching the video.

 

 

 

Gordon has been red-hot lately. He's catching it at the right time too. I think we may be heating up for another Earnhardt/Gordon showdown heading toward the championship. Man, that would be awesome wouldn't it?

[oochymp 2,393]

I really should be happier with this result than I am, Kenseth ran a great race and finished third, but with the new Chase qualifying system it doesn't matter, nice to build momentum going into the Chase I guess, and now with four spots up for grabs and two races left Kenseth is almost a lock, but it's still frustrating for a third place finish to basically be meaningless

[seanbrock 1,684]

I move that Nascar discussions be moved to the sideline....seeing as how Nascar isn't a sport, it's like 1000 left hand turns in 3 hours. 3 hours? yeah, and some of you Nascar fans think BASEBALL is boring? Holy fuck lol

[oochymp 2,393]

I'm curious, how do you define 'sport' in a way that doesn't include NASCAR? Actually, this could be interesting as its own thread, but I'll leave it here for now

[Milla4Prez63 678]

So, there is 2 races left before the Chase field is set. The 12 drivers with wins are locked in.

1.Jeff Gordon (3)
2.Dale Earnhardt, Jr. (3)
3.Brad Keselowski (3)
4.Joey Logano (3)
5.Jimmie Johnson (3)
6.Kevin Harvick (2)
7.Carl Edwards (2)
8.Kyle Busch (1)
9.Denny Hamlin (1)
10.Aric Almirola (1)
11.AJ Allmendinger (1)
12.Kurt Busch (1)

Matt Kenseth you would assume is pretty much locked in on points, he's 5th in points about 30 points ahead of the next driver with no wins. Making it 13 drivers with a spot pretty much locked up. So assuming no one else without a win gets to victory lane at Atlanta or Richmond, there is 3 more spots left on points. Which currently belong to...

14.Ryan Newman
15.Clint Bowyer, -7
16.Greg Biffle, -19

Here's a group of guys with a chance to get one of those spots....

17.Kasey Kahne, -9 (points behind Biffle)
18.Austin Dillon, -22
19.Kyle Larson, -24



So, Newman has to feel good about his chances assuming he can stay ahead of Bowyer and Biffle in points. Even if we get two first time winners in the next two races to steal Chase spots, he'd still get that last spot on points. Bowyer also looks to be in solid shape as long as he has two solid races since the chances of there being two different first time winners are low. Biffle is a little more on edge, Kasey Kahne is close enough in points and is good enough to pass him for that spot if we get no winners. The rookies Dillon and Larson are longshots and need Biffle and Kahne to have some bad luck to go with some good runs. I think Larson has the better chance of the two since he's shown more muscle this year.

But also, these new rules keep things interesting. Anyone in the top 30 in points is still alive, they just need to win one of these two races. Someone like Paul Menard, Marcos Ambrose, Jamie McMurray or Brian Vickers could steal a win and lock up a spot while eliminating one of those points only spots. Should be interesting.

[oochymp 2,393]

Apparently Stewart's missed races are being excused, making him Chase eligible if he gets a win, rendering the start every race requirement irrelevant

[Glanvilles Grits 142]

I believe they call it the "except in rare circumstances" rile, aka the Jeff Gordon clause, which is what allows NASCAR to alter the series on a whim however they feel fit.

 

I can't say I completely agree with it, but I can't say I disagree with it either. What happened to make Stewart miss those races was absolutely a tragedy.

 

No one pointed fingers when they did it for Gordon, so I can't see holding a double standard at this point. Stewart's situation was much more touchy.

[oochymp 2,393]

"except in rare circumstances" gets a bit hollow when every absence is excused, of course Stewart does have to win one of the next two races for it to matter, but it still feels like NASCAR makes up the rules as it goes along

[oochymp 2,393]

this has been a great battle in Atlanta

[oochymp 2,393]

damn, so close to the win, but Kenseth clinches a Chase spot on points and RIR should be a lot of fun Saturday, it's gonna be a tough fight for the last two spots

 

and pretty crazy that Hendrick Motor Sports is once again putting four cars in the chase, Gibbs has also put all three of his cars in the Chase