Cam Newton vs. Colin Kaepernick?

[KempBolt 498]

Field vision, progressions, accuracy...

[Thanatos 2,847]

So basically what Im hearing is that Cam Newton is better because... Stats show that statistically that Kaepernick has been better in multiple aspects of the game. Steve Smith is an excellent WR. So to make the argument that he doesn't have a legitimate weapons is quit comical. Greg Olsen is a very good TE. LaFell last year was a good number 2 WR. Stats show that. The offensive line argument is weak because the 49ers offensive line was ranked 11th according to NFL.com and the panthers were ranked 17th. Also anybody who follows the 49ers know that their line is very good at run blocking; but hasn't been very good at pass protection. So does anybody have any stats or evidence that Newton is "light years" ahead of Kaepernick? Lets also not forget that the Panthers had a better defense then the 49ers last year as well. Our special teams return unit was not very good last year either.

Steve Smith was hampered by an injury all last year. He was not a good WR last year. Anyone who follows the Panthers knows that.

 

LaFell was not a good #2, you are dead fucking wrong on that. Any Panthers fan will tell you we wanted him gone. He dropped a ton of passes and caused four of Newton's picks.

 

You say "anyone who follows the Niners"- as if I don't know what I'm talking about regarding the Niners O-line, and the Niners have a pretty damn good O-line for both, actually- and then act like you can claim LaFell was an actual good WR when you admit you've only seen the Panthers play against the Niners and Hawks.

 

The offensive line last year was decent, and last year Newton had a career season.

 

He broke basically every record regarding touchdowns, yardage, and points for the first three years of someone's career.

 

The offensive line THIS year has 4/5 players as undrafted free agents. The Niners O-line is way better THIS year, and spouting ranks off of NFL.com like they mean anything just shows you don't know what you are talking about.

 

The only thing Kaep has over Newton and the only reason why the casual fan thinks he is better, is because of the fact that they, (and you), are incapable of taking into account anything but blind "paper." I.E.- you read stats and don't look at anything around it, such as weapons, O-line, schedule, etc.

 

Newton is a better passer than Kaep. Kaep locks onto one target- he even said so after last year's NFCC. He said in the press conference that he was going to Crabtree pre-snap.

 

He doesn't go through reads very often. He often locks in one target and then runs if that target is not open.

 

Cam is a better runner- not faster, but far stronger and able to muscle through for yards Kaep would never get.

 

Newton has no running game whatsoever. The entire running game IS Newton. He has led his team in rushing or been very close every year he has played. The idea that the Panthers have this great run game is a media fabrication from people who also just glance at stats- a look just below the surface of the Panthers top-10 ranked rush offense would reveal Cam is always pulling about 40% of their rushing yards.

 

This year, he is once again leading the team in rushing despite missing game 1 and hardly running at all until the Cincy game.

 

The Niners core of weapons are Vernon Davis, Frank Gore, Carlos Hyde, Anquan Boldin, Stevie Johnson, and Michael Crabtree.

 

Cam has Greg Olsen, Kelvin Benjamin... and a bunch of late round draft picks that are still really young that we are scraping by with. Stewart and Williams can never stay healthy. They are a decent pair of RBs at this point- when healthy.

 

Newton is literally carrying the Panthers.

 

Whereas, Alex Smith took the Niners to within one special teams mistake of the Super Bowl. Enough said.

 

And don't act like our defense was way better than SF's last year. They were 2/3 and virtually the same.

Edited October 29, 2014 by Thanatos19

[paramedic586 1]

First of all. Calm down. No reason to get angry. You keep going back and forth between years past and this year.

1. So you bring up stats when Cam newton was breaking records but I can't bring up stats when comparing seasons?

2. Anybody who knows anything about the 49ers offensive line knows that they are very good run blockers but not as good against the pass. That is just a simple fact. Stats show that.

3. Yes last year Kaepernick would lock onto one or two WRs. This year he has shown obvious improvement in that area as well. It does help that he is playing the beginning of this season with actual NFL WRs. The 49ers starters last was Kyle Williams, Marlon Moore, Jon Baldwin etc. Baldwin had problems cracking the 46 man roster on game day but thats a different argument. So saying that the panthers WR were hurt is the same argument that im using.

4. Kaepernicks pre snap read was the CORRECT read actually. He had a cover three look with zone coverage on the Left and Man on the right. The Safety was playing over the middle. So the READ was not wrong. The throw was a bad throw.

5 Kap is a smarter runner. He doesn't muscle people for extra yards. I don't see that as a negative on his part. There is a reason why he can stay healthy. He doesn't take unnecessary hits.

6.Yes Alex Smith took them to a NFCCG. Kaepernick took them to two and a Superbowl.

Im by no means saying that Cam is a bad QB. He is a very good one. But the question was asked about who is the better QB right now. My opinion is that its Kaepernick based on the talent he has on the team, the coaching staff, Collins dedication to the film room and Kaepernicks raw ability. Every problem that people point out is something that is coachable. In fact it is better this year then last year.

Again not trying to start an argument. Im just trying to find a place to talk some good football.

[paramedic586 1]

Field vision, progressions, accuracy...

Your definitely correct on vision and progressions. Accuracy is debatable. I would give the short accuracy to Cam the long ball to Kap. Im not sure about the Medium though. Kaepernick has however shown progress on his reads. He is seeing the field better than last year but still has work to be done.

[KempBolt 498]

Your definitely correct on vision and progressions. Accuracy is debatable. I would give the short accuracy to Cam the long ball to Kap. Im not sure about the Medium though. Kaepernick has however shown progress on his reads. He is seeing the field better than last year but still has work to be done.

I'd add pocket presence and anticipation.

 

Perhaps I think it's so obvious simply because the traits mentioned are the ones that I value most. Arm strength and speed are way down the list for me.

[BwareDWare94 723]

Colin Kaepernick is the king of empty stats. While he struggles to throw 1-2 TD passes a game when other quarterbacks do that in their sleep, his defense and coaching staff carries him to win after win after win.

 

If you watch Colin Kaepernick fairly regularly, several things stick out:

 

1. His accuracy is monumentally erratic for a player with so much at his disposal. Yes, San Fran has had moments where his weapons have been depleted, but you name any quarterback and we'll find stretches of games where he was working with nothing. Quick note: This is the FIRST year that Cam Newton has ever had a real, prototypical #1 receiver. The first damn time.

 

2. Kaepernick makes incredibly stupid plays that have somehow not bit him in the ass, so far. That supposedly amazing play where he threw across his body and all the way across the field to Frank Gore was one of the dumbest throws I have ever seen. It somehow worked but that is something that will never happen again so even if it was a good play, it's not something he can replicate on a game by game basis.

 

Colin Kaepernick is a marginally impressive young quarterback with potential for greatness. He's not there yet. Cam Newton is easily a top 10 QB in this league. There is a difference, and most definitely a clear separation, between the quality of these two quarterbacks.

[paramedic586 1]

Colin Kaepernick is the king of empty stats. While he struggles to throw 1-2 TD passes a game when other quarterbacks do that in their sleep, his defense and coaching staff carries him to win after win after win.

 

If you watch Colin Kaepernick fairly regularly, several things stick out:

 

1. His accuracy is monumentally erratic for a player with so much at his disposal. Yes, San Fran has had moments where his weapons have been depleted, but you name any quarterback and we'll find stretches of games where he was working with nothing. Quick note: This is the FIRST year that Cam Newton has ever had a real, prototypical #1 receiver. The first damn time.

 

2. Kaepernick makes incredibly stupid plays that have somehow not bit him in the ass, so far. That supposedly amazing play where he threw across his body and all the way across the field to Frank Gore was one of the dumbest throws I have ever seen. It somehow worked but that is something that will never happen again so even if it was a good play, it's not something he can replicate on a game by game basis.

 

Colin Kaepernick is a marginally impressive young quarterback with potential for greatness. He's not there yet. Cam Newton is easily a top 10 QB in this league. There is a difference, and most definitely a clear separation, between the quality of these two quarterbacks.

 

Maybe Im getting confused on the topic of this conversation. Are we talking about who is the better QB "NOW". Or are we taking into consideration the progress that we are seeing and the progress we anticipate? Because I change my vote if it is strictly on what we see now. Kap IMHO is showing progress year to year in the right direction and I think he will have the more successful career if he progresses steadily.

 

What is a stereotypical number one WR in your opinion?

[paramedic586 1]

I'd add pocket presence and anticipation.

 

Perhaps I think it's so obvious simply because the traits mentioned are the ones that I value most. Arm strength and speed are way down the list for me.

Well if you are looking at a total career I would say Cam has the better pocket presence. He should he has been in the league longer. But this year Kap has shown strides in that area. Anticipation is something that grows with time as well too. I guess my bias comes from seeing how he has progressed (kap) instead of watching isolated games (CAm) and making my decisions based on that. Again I was not impressed at all in the playoff game. The 4th Quarter stood out to me like a sore thumb. I was seeing a QB that completely lost his composer and wasn't able to recover.

[BwareDWare94 723]

 

Maybe Im getting confused on the topic of this conversation. Are we talking about who is the better QB "NOW". Or are we taking into consideration the progress that we are seeing and the progress we anticipate? Because I change my vote if it is strictly on what we see now. Kap IMHO is showing progress year to year in the right direction and I think he will have the more successful career if he progresses steadily.

 

What is a stereotypical number one WR in your opinion?

 

The combo speed size WR that everybody's looking for at a #1. The guy who has a chance to be a DT, Dez, Calvin, Julio, AJ, etc.

 

And it certainly looks like Benjamin is on his way.

[DonovanMcnabb for H.O.F 2,241]

Kaepernick is pretty clearly a runner who slowly developing into an above average passer. Newton's only weakness as a passer is his sometimes erratic accuracy.

 

Accuracy aside, Newton is better then Kaep at everything else. And I question the notion that Kaep is a smarter runner.

 

We've seen it happen multiple times where it doesn't matter what happens pre-snap, if he's hit with something unexpected cover wise, and a lane opens up, regardless of whether or not he's got other, more effective options, he's taking off.

 

 

It's something that you see many times with Kaep. Or, he tries to take off and realizes that that lane that looked open isn't really open and then he's in deep shit for real. With Newton you see patience in the pocket, more of his runs come off designed runs then breaking out because he sees an open lane.

[paramedic586 1]

Kaepernick is pretty clearly a runner who slowly developing into an above average passer. Newton's only weakness as a passer is his sometimes erratic accuracy.

 

Accuracy aside, Newton is better then Kaep at everything else. And I question the notion that Kaep is a smarter runner.

 

We've seen it happen multiple times where it doesn't matter what happens pre-snap, if he's hit with something unexpected cover wise, and a lane opens up, regardless of whether or not he's got other, more effective options, he's taking off.

 

 

It's something that you see many times with Kaep. Or, he tries to take off and realizes that that lane that looked open isn't really open and then he's in deep shit for real. With Newton you see patience in the pocket, more of his runs come off designed runs then breaking out because he sees an open lane.

[paramedic586 1]

What I mean by a smarter runner is that he doesn't fight for extra yards. He takes what he can get and then slides or runs out of bounds. Of course Kap takes off running at times when he shouldn't. That is too be expected. But if you watched his games this year you see an increased awareness in the pocket. He goes through his reads better. Evidence of that? He doesn't take off running as much unless it's a designed play and he is getting the ball to more WR and TEs. He had a really good sideline pass he dropped into gores hands. It was called back after a review. But his development into a pocket passer is evident if you watch the games.

[DonovanMcnabb for H.O.F 2,241]

What I mean by a smarter runner is that he doesn't fight for extra yards. He takes what he can get and then slides or runs out of bounds. Of course Kap takes off running at times when he shouldn't. That is too be expected. But if you watched his games this year you see an increased awareness in the pocket. He goes through his reads better. Evidence of that? He doesn't take off running as much unless it's a designed play and he is getting the ball to more WR and TEs. He had a really good sideline pass he dropped into gores hands. It was called back after a review. But his development into a pocket passer is evident if you watch the games.

 

Why would it matter in the comparison of the two? Has "fighting for extra yards" hurt Cam Newton?

 

I have watched the games, and I said in the previous post that he has improved. But he wasn't on Newton's level going into the season, and Newton himself has looked great in the pocket this year, this is despite coming off a offseason where he spent most of the time recovering from surgery, playing with fucked up ribs, and the worst graded (by far) pass blocking of any QB according to PFF.

[RazorStar 4,025]

Cam Newton is a big dude, he can fight for extra yards and no worry about the hits as much as some one like kaepernick, who is a lanky motherfucker.

[Thanatos 2,847]

First of all. Calm down. No reason to get angry. You keep going back and forth between years past and this year.

 

1. So you bring up stats when Cam newton was breaking records but I can't bring up stats when comparing seasons?

 

2. Anybody who knows anything about the 49ers offensive line knows that they are very good run blockers but not as good against the pass. That is just a simple fact. Stats show that.

 

3. Yes last year Kaepernick would lock onto one or two WRs. This year he has shown obvious improvement in that area as well. It does help that he is playing the beginning of this season with actual NFL WRs. The 49ers starters last was Kyle Williams, Marlon Moore, Jon Baldwin etc. Baldwin had problems cracking the 46 man roster on game day but thats a different argument. So saying that the panthers WR were hurt is the same argument that im using.

 

4. Kaepernicks pre snap read was the CORRECT read actually. He had a cover three look with zone coverage on the Left and Man on the right. The Safety was playing over the middle. So the READ was not wrong. The throw was a bad throw.

 

5 Kap is a smarter runner. He doesn't muscle people for extra yards. I don't see that as a negative on his part. There is a reason why he can stay healthy. He doesn't take unnecessary hits.

 

6.Yes Alex Smith took them to a NFCCG. Kaepernick took them to two and a Superbowl.

 

Im by no means saying that Cam is a bad QB. He is a very good one. But the question was asked about who is the better QB right now. My opinion is that its Kaepernick based on the talent he has on the team, the coaching staff, Collins dedication to the film room and Kaepernicks raw ability. Every problem that people point out is something that is coachable. In fact it is better this year then last year.

 

Again not trying to start an argument. Im just trying to find a place to talk some good football.

 

No one is getting angry. Profanity does not equal anger.

 

Talking football- this is the place to be.

 

We will agree to disagree on this one. I don't see it as even being close. Kaep doesn't even crack my top-10, he may not crack my top-16.

 

To act like the Niners O-line is anywhere near the level of Cam's is hilarious though, bro. Newton's O-line for pass blocking is the worst in the league and its not even close.

Edited October 30, 2014 by Thanatos19

[paramedic586 1]

Well according to pff. Carolina had a better pass blocking offensive line then the 49ers last year.

 

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2014/01/13/2013-offensive-line-rankings/4/

 

If this discussion wasn't even close then there wouldn't even be a topic on the matter. Lots of statistics point to what I'm saying. Qb rating, QBR, turnover ratio all point to what I'm saying.

 

All I'm hearing is cam newton would be better if he had a better line, better wr, better TE, better OC, better coaching staff etc. Those arguments wouldn't need to be addressed if Cam was truly better. But the fact is they are so close to each other it still can be debated.

 

Watching the game now I'm not seeing a qb that is light Years ahead of kap. The irony is Newton just three an INT that kaepernick gets sand blasted for by the media. Three a bullet behind the WR. So was that cams fault or the WR?

[BwareDWare94 723]

Well according to pff. Carolina had a better pass blocking offensive line then the 49ers last year.

 

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2014/01/13/2013-offensive-line-rankings/4/

 

If this discussion wasn't even close then there wouldn't even be a topic on the matter. Lots of statistics point to what I'm saying. Qb rating, QBR, turnover ratio all point to what I'm saying.

 

All I'm hearing is cam newton would be better if he had a better line, better wr, better TE, better OC, better coaching staff etc. Those arguments wouldn't need to be addressed if Cam was truly better. But the fact is they are so close to each other it still can be debated.

 

Watching the game now I'm not seeing a qb that is light Years ahead of kap. The irony is Newton just three an INT that kaepernick gets sand blasted for by the media. Three a bullet behind the WR. So was that cams fault or the WR?

 

If they were as close as you say, they'd both be borderline top 15 QBs, like Kaepernick. That just isn't the case.

[Thanatos 2,847]

Well according to pff. Carolina had a better pass blocking offensive line then the 49ers last year.

 

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2014/01/13/2013-offensive-line-rankings/4/

 

If this discussion wasn't even close then there wouldn't even be a topic on the matter. Lots of statistics point to what I'm saying. Qb rating, QBR, turnover ratio all point to what I'm saying.

 

All I'm hearing is cam newton would be better if he had a better line, better wr, better TE, better OC, better coaching staff etc. Those arguments wouldn't need to be addressed if Cam was truly better. But the fact is they are so close to each other it still can be debated.

 

Watching the game now I'm not seeing a qb that is light Years ahead of kap. The irony is Newton just three an INT that kaepernick gets sand blasted for by the media. Three a bullet behind the WR. So was that cams fault or the WR?

Sigh. I'm talking about THIS year.

 

Oh and yes, lets take one game in a vacuum to discuss two QBs who have been in the league 3+ years, guise.

 

Again, just gonna let this one drop. It's telling that only the Niners fan is the one defending this.

 

Newton is a top-10 QB, Kaep is not. Dem are the facts.

Edited October 31, 2014 by Thanatos19

[KempBolt 498]

Last year's Carolina OL had Jordan Gross and Travelle Wharton. This one doesn't. And they're banged up on top of that. Cam might well be playing behind the worst line in the league right now.

[DonovanMcnabb for H.O.F 2,241]

Well according to pff. Carolina had a better pass blocking offensive line then the 49ers last year.

 

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2014/01/13/2013-offensive-line-rankings/4/

 

 

Hate to be the one to ruin your party but...

 

 

 

Newton's line was worse then Kaep's last year and has been a whole lot worse this year.

 

 

 

If this discussion wasn't even close then there wouldn't even be a topic on the matter. Lots of statistics point to what I'm saying. Qb rating, QBR, turnover ratio all point to what I'm saying.

All I'm hearing is cam newton would be better if he had a better line, better wr, better TE, better OC, better coaching staff etc. Those arguments wouldn't need to be addressed if Cam was truly better. But the fact is they are so close to each other it still can be debated.

 

Watching the game now I'm not seeing a qb that is light Years ahead of kap. The irony is Newton just three an INT that kaepernick gets sand blasted for by the media. Three a bullet behind the WR. So was that cams fault or the WR?

 

Knee jerk much? Lol. Its one game, and he didn't play great, but you'd be beyond blind to not see that there multiple problems and instabilities with the offense. Something that Kaepernick almost never has to worry about as the offense he plays for is catered to him.

[paramedic586 1]

 

Hate to be the one to ruin your party but...

 

 

 

Newton's line was worse then Kaep's last year and has been a whole lot worse this year.

 

 

 

 

Knee jerk much? Lol. Its one game, and he didn't play great, but you'd be beyond blind to not see that there multiple problems and instabilities with the offense. Something that Kaepernick almost never has to worry about as the offense he plays for is catered to him.

Um you might want to look at your spoiler alert again. That proves that I was correct that Carolina had a better rated pass blocking line last year. But I guess I am apparently not allowed to talk about that. So I bring up the current game that was being played. So I am not allowed to talk about that either. Lets talk about stats. Nope we can't bring those up either. So if the argument is going to be "Cam Newton is better because I say he is" then we will agree to disagree. I have brought up stats from last year. Im bringing up stats this year. Im bringing up offensive line play from last year.

 

So we can just agree to disagree. Unless someone wants to bring up some OBJECTIVE facts or game film. Have a good night everyone.

[Bay 2,003]

Cam is not a top 10 Qb. Close but not in there yet.

 

Brady, Ben, Manning, Luck, Rivers, Romo, Rodgers, Brees, Ryan, Wilson.

 

Cam is in the Flacco, Cutler, Stafford tier.

 

My opinion.

[blotsfan 2,112]

I take cam over Wilson and Ryan but jeez there are a lot of good qbs right now

[RazorStar 4,025]

 

Like Joey Harrington.

[DonovanMcnabb for H.O.F 2,241]

Um you might want to look at your spoiler alert again. That proves that I was correct that Carolina had a better rated pass blocking line last year. But I guess I am apparently not allowed to talk about that. So I bring up the current game that was being played. So I am not allowed to talk about that either. Lets talk about stats. Nope we can't bring those up either. So if the argument is going to be "Cam Newton is better because I say he is" then we will agree to disagree. I have brought up stats from last year. Im bringing up stats this year. Im bringing up offensive line play from last year.

So we can just agree to disagree. Unless someone wants to bring up some OBJECTIVE facts or game film. Have a good night everyone.

The 49ers had a pass blocking grade of 5.2, the Panthers had one of 1.3. :|