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blotsfan

Trump Regime thread.

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Hopefully.

Didn't you advocate a preemptive strike on North Korea?

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If NATO dissolves, Russia is gonna move in on Eastern Europe like a bitch.

No they wont.

 

Guess what would happen... wed still ally with Europe anyway because our country loves standing on the pulpit and being in war nonstop.

 

If Russia moves on anyone in a major way, I guarantee the US would still outspend every other country except MAYBE the defending nation depending on who it is.

 

You act like if NATO didnt exist we wouldnt go help or that the Europeans wouldnt accept our help in the scenario of a literal Russian invasion.

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Leaving NATO would be explicitly sending a message that we won't stick up for our European allies. Otherwise we wouldn't leave.

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Didn't you advocate a preemptive strike on North Korea?

That's our fight. They were not threatening Europe. They were threatening us directly. Honestly we shouldn't be Europe's bodyguard. Since they have quit threatening with nukes I am happy to let them be.

 

Trump was right about one thing. Without us NATO is a nothing organization that can't defend themselves. They have been relying on the US and our military forever now. If they are not willing to share the burden of having to pay for a military that is capable of defending them, then I don't see why it should fall to us to be the muscle.

 

We have enough shit to worry about without inheriting their problems.

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Leaving NATO would be explicitly sending a message that we won't stick up for our European allies. Otherwise we wouldn't leave.

 

I get what you're saying. It would send a bad message -- but you're dodging the point of my post. Leaving NATO would probably leave a bad taste in the mouths of our allies, for sure. But that doesn't mean we are going full isolationist. That doesn't mean that we would show up at the front lines with soldiers and they're going to tell us to go home because they're mad we left NATO. lol

 

Theoretically, the US removes itself from NATO. Theoretically, Russia begins an invasion of Europe.

 

The US WILL get involved. Europe / rest of NATO WILL accept our help.

 

 

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Hating Russia is so 1980's. The Cold War is over Blots.

 

 

(This is tongue in cheek, don't get emo on me)

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Leaving NATO would be explicitly sending a message that we won't stick up for our European allies. Otherwise we wouldn't leave.

This doesn't make sense to me for the same reason the United States bitching about the NATO countries not spending enough.

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I trust that given the release of the indictment against the 12 Russians, Sean can stop claiming that there was no Russian conspiracy to help Trump and hurt Clinton. It is there in black and white that there was and that members of Trump's campaign assisted in it. The only remaining question is whether Trump himself knew about it.

 

If he did- even if he didn't actually do anything, but merely had knowledge of it- he should and almost certainly will be impeached.

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I trust that given the release of the indictment against the 12 Russians, Sean can stop claiming that there was no Russian conspiracy to help Trump and hurt Clinton. It is there in black and white that there was and that members of Trump's campaign assisted in it. The only remaining question is whether Trump himself knew about it.

 

If he did- even if he didn't actually do anything, but merely had knowledge of it- he should and almost certainly will be impeached.

 

Wouldn't doubt it. After that we're in for some real trouble. FML at President Pence. Covnersion therapy centers at every HS in the country. Can't wait.

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If he did- even if he didn't actually do anything, but merely had knowledge of it- he should and almost certainly will be impeached.

When did the democrats take the house + 67 seats in the senate?

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When did the democrats take the house + 67 seats in the senate?

 

The GOP will save face by jettisoning Trump if its proven.

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Yeah, if it comes out that Trump did know about it I don't think there is much to save him. The GOP hit him so hard after his Putin meeting that he did one of his " I misspoke" walk backs. lol. I don't think they do a lot of hesitating if that kind of information is revealed.

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Trump has had numerous impeachable offenses since coming to office and it hasn't gotten the Republicans to do one iota. The DOJ report made it pretty clear that Russia's ties to the Republican party go far deeper than trump. The party taking action against him besides saying that they're sad seems incredibly unlikely. If they wanted, they could get his tax returns and pass a law protecting Mueller today. Every single Democrat would vote for it.

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Russia is run the way the Republican party leaders wish the US was run. Not that surprising to see that they're kindred spirits.

 

I think we need to keep in mind before any kind of trial as far as Russiagate goes.

https://youtu.be/nkF6WpWAxy8">https://youtu.be/nkF6WpWAxy8" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350">

 

This is what scares me about the whole Russia hysteria.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.politico.com/magazine/amp/story/2018/07/16/putin-russia-trump-2016-pearl-harbor-219015

 

This isn't just some journalist. There have been leaders in the Democratic party calling this an act of war and demanding action from the president. Russia and the US have been hacking each other from the moment it was possible and I would bet the CIA hacks everyone including it's friends.

 

Oh yeah, remember this? Lol but a spearphishing campaign is an act of war? Huh? Lol

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2015/07/03/politics/germany-media-spying-obama-administration/index.html

 

I don't think blots and Than are advocating for war but it's pretty likely to be the end result if this goes down the way you guys are hoping it will.

 

I think for those that support the progressive movement it's important that Clinton lost on her own merrits. If Clinton/Pelosi/Schumer are proven to have a losing strategy I think it opens the door a lot more for an Ocasio-Cortez. This has been getting us away from super delegates and big money donors. I don't think this movement is as powerful without Trump, personally but it's not a popular point of view so maybe I'm an asshole and 100% wrong lol

Edited by seanbrock

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It absolutely is an act of war to interfere with our elections and install a person they wanted to be President. If you read the indictment- which I shall link here- there is a lot more to it.

 

It's one you completely ignore as being an act of war as far as responding in kind, because war between Russia and the US would be catastrophic and potentially world-ending, but lets not mince words here. If all this is proven true, if Putin and Russia conspired with Trump to get him elected, that is nothing less than an act of treason by Trump and his campaign and an act of war by Putin and Russia.

 

I also agree that the progressive movement takes a blow if Trump didn't beat Clinton without Russian interference. The truth may be inconvenient for the political cause we want to see triumph in the end, however.

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Idk, I still think that the leaked emails were a good thing. A lot of it was confirmed my Donna Brazille.

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Sean, man, what does it take to convince you? Who else is Organization 1? Who released emails in July and August specifically designed to hurt the Clinton campaign? Wikileaks is in cahoots with the Kremlin, Mueller just fucking confirmed it. Sure, some of the things they said might be true, that's how a good propaganda machine works. But everything that was released is now suspect.

 

The entire damn thing- emails and all- was set up by Vladimir Putin and the Kremlin in order to help Trump and hurt Clinton- without his knowledge, possibly, though I find that a LONG stretch to make, personally- and now Trump refuses to rule out handing over the former US ambassador to Russia to Putin for "questioning" over a non-existent crime Putin and the KGB just made up out of thin air.

 

At best, Trump is in love with an authoritarian dictator who routinely has his political foes and mere reporters murdered because he doesn't agree with them. Putin is a horrible man. At worst, Trump is directly under his thumb, either because Putin has something on him, or because he simply is fine working for him.

Edited by Thanatos

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Did you ever see Snowden? If spying and hacking are acts of war, then we would probably be at war with every country in the world. Also, like I said, I'm glad the leak came out regardless of the source. This probably wouldn't be possible if these people were using secured emails.

 

I say if we respond it should be in the same kind of way. Releasing information Russia/Putin don't want out there. I'd really be in favor of them going back and fourth airing out each other's dirty laundry. That would actually benefit the PEOPLE of America AND Russia.

Edited by seanbrock
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Did you ever see Snowden? If spying and hacking are acts of war, then we would probably be at war with every country in the world. Also, like I said, I'm glad the leak came out regardless of the source. This probably wouldn't be possible if these people were using secured emails.

 

 

This is the biggest thing that bothers me... We do the same sorts of things to dozens of countries around the world every single day -- including Russia. This whole thing is par for the course. Doesn't make it 'right' but the punishment should fit the crime and I like your suggestion.

 

This whole story is so hypocritical. We as a country as very hypocritical.

 

Focus on this (relatively) nothing Russa story while we have dark money trying to stop Michigan voters from fucking gerrymandering in the ass. Focus on Russia while, domestically we LITERALLY RIG OUR OWN ELECTIONS with no punishments.

 

But yeah, Russia is the problem. lol

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This is the biggest thing that bothers me... We do the same sorts of things to dozens of countries around the world every single day -- including Russia. This whole thing is par for the course. Doesn't make it 'right' but the punishment should fit the crime and I like your suggestion.

 

This whole story is so hypocritical. We as a country as very hypocritical.

Focus on this (relatively) nothing Russa story while we have dark money trying to stop Michigan voters from fucking gerrymandering in the ass. Focus on Russia while, domestically we LITERALLY RIG OUR OWN ELECTIONS with no punishments.

But yeah, Russia is the problem. lol

Exactly what you just said. This thing goes on for every develop Nation, to every other developed Nation, on the planet. We are no exception, nor is Russia, nor France, nor Germany common or Italy, nor Japan, nor China, so basically the rest of the globe. You absolutely nailed it with that fact.

 

I also absolutely loved the point you made about the hypocrisy of our country. Liberals are all in a tizzy right now because Donald Trump did something that looks like rigging an election, however Hillary Clinton can rig an election for the DNC and nobody even remotely thinks about treason. The exact same thing is happening right now, Trump may have had some ties with Russia, none of which has really definitively been proven by something we can read, although I doubt it ever will, that's how these things work. Just as the Republicans were throwing all that mud on Hillary, they turn around and get some mud on themselves and now liberals want to talk about trees and, while Republicans were trying to talk about crooked Hillary, but I don't ever recall treason. Not that that matters, that's kind of a trivial point considering Donald Trump will literally never get convicted of treason. All I'm really saying is that both sides have done their fair share of election rigging, everybody does their fair share of spying, it's just with the other guy does it it's a problem.

 

elections are not one on moral or social issues anymore, they have not been for a while. Elections these days are one off the backs of how much money can a candidate raise, and how much worse can the other guy look. I guess you could throw a third in there and say that we vote with our wallets now, because we damn sure don't vote with our conscience. When you look at any issue that was brought up in any of the debates every single one of them centered around honey, even the social justice platform was about money. It was about if we give X group a whole bunch of free stuff, and why group can also benefit from this free stuff, as long as he is the only one who has to pay for it because he has the most money, we are good. It always comes down to things like funding, so the average American no longer votes on issues they vote with their wallet.

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What Hillary did is nothing close to treason because she wasn't working for a hostile foreign nation. Despicable, yes. Treason, no.

 

Also, bringing up Hillary- again- is the last line of defense for Trump supporters when you realize you can't defend his actions. What Hillary did or did not do is irrelevant to this conversation because Hillary is not the president of the United States, Trump is.

 

I love how according to Ngata its just liberals who are in a tizzy because Trump may have sold us out to Russia. Newsflash bud, lots of conservatives are also "in a tizzy" over possible treason. What

Hillary did is wrong- morally- but unfortunately not legally. We need to fix the laws in order to fix that. What Trump did- if these accusations are true- is flat out treason.

 

Also, the amount of moving the goalposts in these types of arguments by the is too damn much. "There was no Russian collusion." "Well it may have been a little, but hey! Hillary's a bad person lets bring her up again!" "You know, America does this sort of thing all the time! Why are we upset about Russia possibly trying to install their own dude as President of our country? Just chill, everyone, we're all at fault, there are good people on both sides."

 

Or you have people like Tucker Carlson who claim the real rigging of the elections is illegal Mexicans voting in the elections for the Democrats, and that Mexico is far worse issue than Russia.

Edited by Thanatos

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Honestly Trump is just another example of how broken our election system is. How many people in this country don't vote because it's all bullshit in the end. If we had higher voter turnout we would have never gotten Trump or Hillary to begin with. The primary system is bullshit. The two party system and how laws and rules are in place that keep any other party from getting any traction have got to go. Very obvious that we need to do some radical campaign finance reform. Trump is just the end result of this hideous, corrupt political apparatus that must be smashed no matter what the cost. If that means impeaching Trump and putting some scum bags in jail I'm down but it can't stop there. We have to destroy the whole apparatus, at least as they know it. We have all the power. If we vote and run for office and keep up with the activism , the inmates can run the assylum so to speak.

Edited by seanbrock
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Honestly Trump is just another example of how broken our election system is. How many people in this country don't vote because it's all bullshit in the end. If we had higher voter turnout we would have never gotten Trump or Hillary to begin with. The primary system is bullshit. The two party system and how laws and rules are in place that keep any other party from getting any traction have got to go. Very obvious that we need to do some radical campaign finance reform. Trump is just the end result of this hideous, corrupt political apparatus that must be smashed no matter what the cost. If that means impeaching Trump and putting some scum bags in jail I'm down but it can't stop there. We have to destroy the whole apparatus, at least as they know it. We have all the power. If we vote and run for office and keep up with the activism , the inmates can run the assylum so to speak.

 

How do we convince everyone to vote? I think its Australia that has mandatory voting, so here's something I would propose:

 

First, make election day a national holiday. It's ridiculous that people have to try to sneak it in before or after work.

Secondly, either provide incentives for voting, or penalties for not voting, or perhaps both.

Thirdly, make a ranked election system like Maine has, where you pick at least three choices to be President. When one person is eliminated, everyone who voted for him has their votes swapped to their 2nd choice, and so forth. Would result in a system where more people feel like they voted for the candidate who won. This needs to be in the primary as well as the general. And also should be implemented for all elections not just the Presidential one.

 

I strongly agree that we need more voter turnout. What was it last election, like 50% of the populace? Hillary and Trump were both horrible horrible candidates.

 

Also, I don't know how we make #3 happen because neither the Dems or the GOP are going to want a system that makes it harder for them to get elected. But I think its a huge factor in getting people out to vote. Just for example in Kentucky where I live, its very hard to get friends who lean left to go to the polls because they feel the state is so far right that their voice is simply drowned out. If there was a tiered system, we'd probably still have a GOP rep, but maybe they'd be closer to the middle, because they were a choice that the liberals put down as like their 3rd or 4th option.

Edited by Thanatos

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