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Trump Regime thread.

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Don't you say people are intolerant all the time

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I mean sure. You can say I'm bigoted against trump voters or whatever. You're being bigoted against LGBT people. You were denying it. I'm glad you're not anymore.

 

If you'd like to go into the difference between the two groups, we can do that as well.

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So you don't think there's any intolerance in that group? Have a question for you, earlier JD said that he had friends that even admitted that, and then you recounted that with the fact that you know people that don't think that at all. So then why is it the people you know, are more important than the people he knows? Are the gay people you know better than the gay people he knows? Really who's intolerant here? Isn't it the guy who says the people he knows are better than the people other people know.

 

You are, and always have been the most intolerant person on this board. So I think it's kind of funny that you're the one pointing the finger so often.

 

It's also funny how Sean said I am public enemy number one because I am white and rich, and you say money has nothing to do with it....interesting you didn't refute the other part.

Edited by Omerta

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There is a large difference between "some gay people are intolerant jerks" and "The lgbtq community is one of the most intolerant groups of people in this country."

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One day I'll convince you all that I'm right and draft you into my coalition. Ha

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Oh and you can quantify the thousands of people who have been insulting these people for not being gay enough. Interesting power you have there. Again Favre knows people who say it is, but they don't count as much as your gay friends... Everyone else is intolerant.

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What if everyone who was against money in pitics and war said fuck it we all agree on this. We're not voting for anyone who takes corporate money or anyone that advocates for war and more defense spending? What would the country look like. I think those things are popular regardless of party. If we could put everything aside and just agree on those two things imagine the possibilities.

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More and more Dems are refusing to accept money from PACs and I think it's a great idea. Even from a practical standpoint, I think when all your funds come from private donations, it gets regular people more motivated to donate, meaning more money for you anyways.

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Yeah I love that idea but I'm skeptically watching the back door. It's certainly a step in the right direction and so is reducing super delegates (even though they shouldn't exist at all). Progressives have gained so much momentum the last 3 years. The establishment is trying their hardest to kill the movement but if they do they will also be killing the party and I think they're beginning to understand that. We can't stop fighting even if we win though. They certainly will never give up so neither can we. We need to be wary of wolves in sheep's clothing that will try to sabotage.

Edited by seanbrock

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Yeah those gay people that bullied her are jerks. No one is arguing that. It's clear that Ngata only gives a shit so he can do his usual "[oppressed minority group] are the real bigots" schtick. It's not clever or original.

 

Edit: also if we're doing the whole "gay friends" thing, I'd like to point out that the gay people I know are much more bothered by the fact that the political party in power wants to support discrimination against them. Much more than a few random jerks on twitter.

Me bringing up that I have gay friends on Facebook wasnt some kind of justification Nor was I using it as a way to somehow prove I know the gay community better than any of you all.

 

Just sharing the perspective of gay Iowans who have a lot of trouble and pain because hey dont fit in. They talk about it extensively and it sucks to read.

 

You can try to minimize and diminish what Ngata is saying but people relate to that. It is a problem. I see it.

 

If you wouldve rather me just blankly made a comment about the LGBTQ community in general I couldve.

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Homophobia is weird man. There are a lot of levels of homophobia. I'm more homophobic than some less than a lot I like to think. I try my best not to be but in reality I still am. I think a lot of people who are homophobic are for gay rights out of principal even if they don't like gay people or even if they think it's wrong which is weird. Kind of like struggling between what they know is right vs how they were brought up. I think there are people who hate gay people and don't care if they have rights buy how many people really hate gays vs. how many people just have never really been around openly gay people?

 

If I had to guess, Ngata is a little homophobic but I don't think he's the type of guy that hates gay people. I know a lot of people who came up the way he did, got into the same kind of field as him.

 

JD I would say is way less homophobic. I know he has extensive experience working in restaurants and has probably known a lot of gay people compared to a Marine construction worker turned business owner. Different life experiences. Neither of these guys are hateful. Cynical? Sure but I don't see hatred.

 

Most people who aren't homophobic at all have had life experiences or known family members or had friends etc. If you're only image of a group of people is their social media presence then of course you will think they're shit lol. I think overall people need to be less homphobic and we're making strides but understanding has to be there on both sides. If someone feels you're unwilling to listen to what they have to say they will never listen to you.

Edited by seanbrock

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Homophobia is weird man. There are a lot of levels of homophobia. I'm more homophobic than some less than a lot I like to think. I try my best not to be but in reality I still am. I think a lot of people who are homophobic are for gay rights out of principal even if they don't like gay people or even if they think it's wrong which is weird. Kind of like struggling between what they know is right vs how they were brought up. I think there are people who hate gay people and don't care if they have rights buy how many people really hate gays vs. how many people just have never really been around openly gay people?

If I had to guess, Ngata is a little homophobic but I don't think he's the type of guy that hates gay people. I know a lot of people who came up the way he did, got into the same kind of field as him.

JD I would say is way less homophobic. I know he has extensive experience working in restaurants and has probably known a lot of gay people compared to a Marine construction worker turned business owner. Different life experiences. Neither of these guys are hateful. Cynical? Sure but I don't see hatred.

Most people who aren't homophobic at all have had life experiences or known family members or had friends etc. If you're only image of a group of people is their social media presence then of course you will think they're shit lol. I think overall people need to be less homphobic and we're making strides but understanding has to be there on both sides. If someone feels you're unwilling to listen to what they have to say they will never listen to you.

It depends on your definition of homophobic. If two dudes are two chicks want to have sex, God bless them. I have nothing against that, I have nothing against that lifestyle. there's only one part of the lgbtq community that doesn't make any sense to me. That's transgender people, and I by no means think they should be deprived of Rights. What it is for me, is the children who believe they're transgender whose parents put them on puberty blockers. I think that is an absolutely draconian practice. I think it's horrible, because what if it is just a phase. To be fair, it could be permanent and it might help them, but could you imagine having your hormonal development completely screwed up because somebody put you on something that artificially mess with your hormones, for something that was a phase? Even though, that really doesn't affect me personally so they can do what they want.

 

what bothers me about the lgbtq thing on principle is the fact that you can't question anything about it. I view it much like the military. Most of the people in the military are outstanding people who are there to do something that they believe is a good thing. I believe the majority of the lgbtq community is the same way. However to deny that there are thousands of people in the military, and lgbtq Community for that matter, who are bad people is insane. the fact that were not allowed to question any of this is what really bothers me, as if there's some protected class that's above reproach. you can't even question the most basic of things, it's like we're told that they're all good people and that we can't question that. Any other cross-section of people, and we could talk about it openly, this one though, not hardly.

 

Just look at this conversation, bunch of cunts who bullied some lady, can't be called that because they belong to a community where you can't question it. What kind of sense does that make? We want to talk about equality but we can't point out flaws and another group of people? I mean sure we can sit here and allow the good things that they did all day, which I'm fine with. Elton John's the man, the guy who plays Sheldon Cooper's awesome, there's plenty of good examples of gay people littered throughout our society. That being said when there's a group of people that screw up, and they just so happen to believe in that Community, you can't say anything. Granted I don't believe Blots embodies Democrats by and large and is not their voice so this conversation could be a bad analogy to how DEMOCRATS converse.

 

it's just like the thing at Charlottesville, those group of racist assholes are not indicative of the entire white race, and nobody has an issue calling that group of people out for being a bunch of dick heads. God forbid you do that to another group of people though.

Edited by Omerta
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I sure missed a good back-and-forth there

 

The debate between Ngata and blots covers a very important base--accountability for bullying behavior. The reaction, public shaming, etc. should be the same for any bully, regardless of their race, sex, sexual orientation, etc.

 

There should not be any special groups that are considered exceptions to our expectations of individual and/or collective conduct.

Edited by BwareDWare94

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It depends on your definition of homophobic. If two dudes are two chicks want to have sex, God bless them. I have nothing against that, I have nothing against that lifestyle. there's only one part of the lgbtq community that doesn't make any sense to me. That's transgender people, and I by no means think they should be deprived of Rights. What it is for me, is the children who believe they're transgender whose parents put them on puberty blockers. I think that is an absolutely draconian practice. I think it's horrible, because what if it is just a phase. To be fair, it could be permanent and it might help them, but could you imagine having your hormonal development completely screwed up because somebody put you on something that artificially mess with your hormones, for something that was a phase? Even though, that really doesn't affect me personally so they can do what they want.

 

what bothers me about the lgbtq thing on principle is the fact that you can't question anything about it. I view it much like the military. Most of the people in the military are outstanding people who are there to do something that they believe is a good thing. I believe the majority of the lgbtq community is the same way. However to deny that there are thousands of people in the military, and lgbtq Community for that matter, who are bad people is insane. the fact that were not allowed to question any of this is what really bothers me, as if there's some protected class that's above reproach. you can't even question the most basic of things, it's like we're told that they're all good people and that we can't question that. Any other cross-section of people, and we could talk about it openly, this one though, not hardly.

 

Just look at this conversation, bunch of cons who bullied some lady, can't be called that because they belong to a community where you can't question it. What kind of sense does that make? We want to talk about equality but we can't point out flaws and another group of people? I mean sure we can sit here and allow the good things that they did all day, which I'm fine with. Elton John's the man, the guy who plays Sheldon Cooper's awesome, there's plenty of good examples of gay people littered throughout our society. That being said when there's a group of people that screw up, and they just so happen to believe in that Community, you can't say anything. Granted I don't believe Blots embodies Democrats by and large and is not their voice so this conversation could be a bad analogy to how DEMOCRATS converse.

 

it's just like the thing at Charlottesville, those group of racist assholes are not indicative of the entire white race, and nobody has an issue calling that group of people out for being a bunch of dick heads. God forbid you do that to another group of people though.

Not to mention that it being just a phase is by far the most likely outcome.

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I honestly can't tell if you guys are feigning ignorance or honestly just not smart enough to understand my incredibly simple point.

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Yes, we get it. Anybody who doesn't agree with you is a bigot, got you bro.

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And you really don't. You really, really don't.

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No dude, I got it. You use the same argument EVERY. SINGLE. TIME. Either agree with what I say or you're a bigot, Hitler, white supremacists, or any other horrible grenades you can throw to make other people seem so repulsive you win without having to defend your argument in a sound way.

 

If we aren't getting it, it could be two things. Either you are the only smart person on the board. Or you don't have a point that makes sense to other intelligent people.

Edited by Omerta

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Ok so I think we have an instance of just hostility making a disconnect that shouldn't be there. I think everyone in this conversation fully supports 100% equal civil rights for gay people. I think everyone in this conversation believes that civil rights are guaranteed to every human being in this country, including marriage.

 

There are some members of the LBGTQ community that demonize and attack people unfairly. You're having a conversation with a guy from the demographic that they hate. A guy that some of them would probably hate. So I can see why someone with that particular perspective could see the LBGTQ community are bullies. It's a small but vocal group of people that are given elevated platforms to piss guys like Ngata and BWare off. Gay people are human beings. If you look at any demographic of people these kinds of things exist.

 

Blots is absolutely right though. You can't argue that this administration has a lot of bigots in it. One of them happens to he Attorney General. Gay rights are in danger and now the courts are stacked against them. We should stand with them and not remain silent if their rights are taken away in any form.

 

I think if we just tried to understand where each other were coming from and understand their perspective, why they think they way they do etc we would probably find that we mostly agree. I think the trans issue is something where you guys won't agree but civil rights? I think everyone on the same page there and I think if Ngata or JD saw somebody bullying a gay person irl they would at the very least say something.

 

I think from we all would like for the country to be as free and prosperous as possible. I think all of us want a just society which is why we like to argue about this shit all the time. Justice is very difficult to define.

 

We have radically different opinions on how to achieve that shared goal but there are no Nazi's or bigots in this section. I don't think anyone intends to opress anyone even if I think some of the things they suggest or support would opress people. I think they're just wrong.

 

Like voter identification lol. I think they really believe it isn't a voter suppression tactict. I don't think they want to keep minorities and poor people from voting. I don't know how they've been convinced that it wasn't designed specifically to suppress the vote. I'm not even very smart and I can figure that one out but I believe that they believe that it's fair and is designed to prevent voter fraud and won't have an impact in turnout. It's insane to me to think that if only people could keep their money then they could give more of it away. I do believe that they truly think that it will result in prosperity for everyone despite the mountains of evidence to the contrary. That's what we've been doing for decades and it's pushing everyone into debt and increasing poverty. The data is undeniable. I think they really believe that it's better for everyone. You can't question BWare does. He works on a farm all the time. Clearly he is not a rich man. One day I will show them the light though haha

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These guys aren't being paid for their opinions. They're genuine, often times wrong in my view but with good intentions. We're all human beings guys come on lol. Politicians and pundits and talking heads you could argue whether or not they believe anything. All they know is they're getting rich. None of us here fall into that category. I think we all have the best intentions and a strong sense of justice.

Edited by seanbrock

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Ok so I think we have an instance of just hostility making a disconnect that shouldn't be there. I think everyone in this conversation fully supports 100% equal civil rights for gay people. I think everyone in this conversation believes that civil rights are guaranteed to every human being in this country, including marriage.

There are some members of the LBGTQ community that demonize and attack people unfairly. You're having a conversation with a guy from the demographic that they hate. A guy that some of them would probably hate. So I can see why someone with that particular perspective could see the LBGTQ community are bullies. It's a small but vocal group of people that are given elevated platforms to piss guys like Ngata and BWare off. Gay people are human beings. If you look at any demographic of people these kinds of things exist.

Blots is absolutely right though. You can't argue that this administration has a lot of bigots in it. One of them happens to he Attorney General. Gay rights are in danger and now the courts are stacked against them. We should stand with them and not remain silent if their rights are taken away in any form.

I think if we just tried to understand where each other were coming from and understand their perspective, why they think they way they do etc we would probably find that we mostly agree. I think the trans issue is something where you guys won't agree but civil rights? I think everyone on the same page there and I think if Ngata or JD saw somebody bullying a gay person irl they would at the very least say something.

I think from we all would like for the country to be as free and prosperous as possible. I think all of us want a just society which is why we like to argue about this shit all the time. Justice is very difficult to define.

We have radically different opinions on how to achieve that shared goal but there are no Nazi's or bigots in this section. I don't think anyone intends to opress anyone even if I think some of the things they suggest or support would opress people. I think they're just wrong.

Like voter identification lol. I think they really believe it isn't a voter suppression tactict. I don't think they want to keep minorities and poor people from voting. I don't know how they've been convinced that it wasn't designed specifically to suppress the vote. I'm not even very smart and I can figure that one out but I believe that they believe that it's fair and is designed to prevent voter fraud and won't have an impact in turnout. It's insane to me to think that if only people could keep their money then they could give more of it away. I do believe that they truly think that it will result in prosperity for everyone despite the mountains of evidence to the contrary. That's what we've been doing for decades and it's pushing everyone into debt and increasing poverty. The data is undeniable. I think they really believe that it's better for everyone. You can't question BWare does. He works on a farm all the time. Clearly he is not a rich man. One day I will show them the light though haha

My entire point is that there are a lot ( minimum of thousands) of oppressive cunts in that movement, and not all of them are gay. However for some reason we can't talk about it, and I find that to be incredibly weird.

 

When people point out its not the whole group, I am like, no shit Sherlock. Not every white person is a racist bigot, not every white person is like the guy in Charlottesville, not every straight person is like Jeff sessions, not every black person hates the police not every black person is racist, of course the overwhelming majority of the cross section of any group of people is most likely going to lean towards good versus bad. That does not mean that the conversation stops because of that, because if that's the case we can't talk about anything ever. We might as well give up talking about how white people suck, how black people suck, how cops suck, how Christians suck, because all of those groups have a large majority of their membership that are good people. The LGBT community is no different. There are a lot of good people in there, and then there are a lot of douchebags. It doesn't mean that we can't talk about the douchebags, pointed out when we see it.

 

As far as them having their rights taken away, I am obviously against that. But that's not really the discussion here, or it wasn't. We can talk about it if you'd like, but that doesn't really resonate with the tone of the conversation.

 

I think I've spoken out in this thread many times against Mike Pence, for him trying to electrocute the gay out of people. So horrifying human being, and if I read his obituary tomorrow, I wouldn't be sad about it. That being said just because there's assholes in Government, doesn't mean that absolves people in the lgbtq community of being an asshole.

 

in this specific instance I brought up, if you can call those people anything but a bunch of cunts, I really don't know what to say. they are an absolute poor representation of the community in which they belong to.

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Blots argument, Sean, is that plenty of times there have been other people in the spotlight for doing negative things, yet Bware and Ngata don't address them at all, they tend to single out people in a community they disagree with.

 

There's a lake between "all groups have intolerant assholes in them" and "The lgbt community is one of the most intolerant groups in this country."

Edited by Thanatos
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Yeah and my point is that from their perspective they feel as though they're u der attack. They're not wrong but it's natural for them to focus on people who generalize them, call them bigots, racists, Nazi's etc. My point is that this kind of stuff to a degree is a response towards hostility from people who they have never wronged personally. I think it's the wrong reaction but I understand it. I think sometimes people use hyperbole to make points and I think that's why certain things have been walked back.

 

I'm pretty fucking liberal and I have some ideas that are pretty far out in left field but I feel like I can get people to at least consider what I have to say and think about it because I try my hardest not to attack people and I try to listen too.

Edited by seanbrock

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It helps you're not a douchebag.

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Its cognitive dissonance at its finest.

 

One easy way to NOT convince someone of your views or stance is to make them feel stupid or inferior. Youre never going to convert people that way.

 

You need to give them a soft landing.

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