Trump Regime thread.

[BwareDWare94 723]

Here's another part of this debate that bothers me. "It's not so easy for most people to lose weight." To me, that implies to a fit person they they didn't have to work as hard as the unfit person would have to. That's only true, in most cases, if the fit person has never been as unfit as the unfit person.

 

Don't shrink someone's fitness accomplishment by saying it wasn't as hard for them as it would be for you. That's pure 100% bullshit. (We need a pure 100% bullshit stamp).

 

There are exceptions, but they are just that--exceptions

Edited June 20, 2017 by BwareDWare94

[Omerta+ 1,206]

Here's another part of this debate that bothers me. "It's not so easy for most people to lose weight." To me, that implies to a fit person they they didn't have to work as hard as the unfit person would have to. That's only true, in most cases, if the fit person has never been as unfit as the unfit person.

 

Don't shrink someone's fitness accomplishment by saying it wasn't as hard for them as it would be for you. That's pure 100% bullshit. (We need a pure 100% bullshit stamp).

 

There are exceptions, but they are just that--exceptions

 

Ok I am not trying to pile on but read what you are saying man. You are assuming that you know what most people are going through. You don't. Now I am not saying that if something happens to you it is a reason to discard your health, or that people who are unhealthy should try to not to be accountable for their health, but really man it is easier for some people. That is just a fact.

 

Here is a great example my wife is in great shape, but it is much harder for her than some women. She is 5'2" with legs that are about as long as my index finger and 32DD boobs. Cardio for her is tough and it is embarrassing for her. She refuses to run for the obvious reasons and she cant do any high impact stuff without being ogled or it being very uncomfortable for her. Now a tall skinny women like Emmy Rossum could run all day and it is no big deal. My wife has to make time for swimming, eat like a monk, weights, and yoga to stay under 140lbs.

 

Just assuming that all people will have the same level of difficulty is ridiculous. People who have already be in shape will get in shape so much quicker than someone who is doing it for the first time. Someone who has diabetes will have a tougher time, someone who has skeletal issues will have a tougher time. I mean think about what you are saying. I mean we get it, you hate fat people, do you man. Seriously though at least try to understand it will be a struggle and some moreso than others, or appreciate it.

[BwareDWare94 723]

Dude, I'm a fat person lol. Not terribly but I'm certainly not thin. Many of my friends and family are fat, some morbidly obese. I don't hate anyone. What I do hate is this culture we've created where nobody is accountable for anything. I think we are actively encouraging that lack of accountability by not being blunt about anything We don't need to be openly mean to heavy people, but we do need to say, "you need to lose weight for your own sake" instead of [insert absurdly nice veiled version of what I just said here].

 

Every single bit of public dialogue on this issue is "don't accidently offend a pathetic snowflake" sanitized. It's just more fuel for people to not address their issues.

 

At what point do we make a commitment to vocalizing realities again as opposed to sugared up bullshit?

 

Also, perhaps I should clarify that I'm specifically talking about morbid obesity.

Edited June 20, 2017 by BwareDWare94

[Omerta+ 1,206]

Dude, I'm a fat person lol. Not terribly but I'm certainly not thin. Many of my friends and family are fat, some morbidly obese. I don't hate anyone. What I do hate is this culture we've created where nobody is accountable for anything. I think we are actively encouraging that lack of accountability by not being blunt about anything We don't need to be openly mean to heavy people, but we do need to say, "you need to lose weight for your own sake" instead of [insert absurdly nice veiled version of what I just said here].

 

Every single bit of public dialogue on this issue is "don't accidently offend a pathetic snowflake" sanitized. It's just more fuel for people to not address their issues.

 

At what point do we make a commitment to vocalizing realities again as opposed to sugared up bullshit?

 

Also, perhaps I should clarify that I'm specifically talking about morbid obesity.

 

See the problem is though, where do you get the right to make that call. Most people are not saying you have to lie to people, but they are saying is it your place ? You say you have morbidly obese family, so ask yourself this, do you think somehow they are unaware of this ? Why do we need to say "you need to lose weight for your own sake"? I mean seriously do you think they don't know? If you seriously believe there is a world of people out there who are fat and don't know it, I am not sure what to say really. Why do you have to be blunt? Why do you have to say anything at all? Why is it your place to police others when admittedly you have your own work to do ? How credible does that make you in losing weight anyway ? I know if I were trying to build a boat and a guy who had never had any experience building a boat told me how I should do it, I would not take my chances drowning.

 

If a doctor tells them about their weight, than fine. That is their job as a medical professional, to make sure they are as healthy as they can be. You seem to be more occupied with wanting to do it so that way you feel as though you are making a difference. I will grant you our culture is waaaay to sensitive and it is hurting as a nation, but think an evil that is on par with that is people thinking that they have the right to get into affairs that are not their business. If a woman is riding a scooter in a supermarket because they are morbidly obese, what do you care ? Is it your scooter? Did you pay for it? Will you have to repair it? So really what business is it of yours if people are fat ? Do you get pleasure out of causing others pain?

 

At what point do we make a commitment to helping people, and if they rebuff it than go on about our lives without having disdain for that individual? I mean seriously do you think fat people don't know how to get skinnier in theory? I think almost all people in the world grasp a good diet and exercise will get you there ? If they know already the general premise than the problem lies elsewhere like maybe what is a good diet, what kind of exercise, what are my hormone levels, and other things. Do you think being a dick to them is going to teach them something. I think the public dialogue is more "Dont go out of your way to be a dick" sanitized than "don't accidentally offend a pathetic snowflake" sanitized.

 

I also have to say there is a frightening amount of arrogance behind your theory. You think that you are so powerful that telling someone they are fat is going to help them lose weight. No offense, but who the hell are you ? Why is you saying they are fat going to be so profound and life changing to someone that they are going to change their ways because you told them? God damn man, that is an impressive amount of self confidence, like up their with lavar Ball kind of self confidence.

 

There are countless studies that FAT shaming doesn't work.

 

http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0167571

 

http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0167571

 

https://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2014-09/ucl-sd091014.php

 

https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2012/09/obesity-campaigns-the-fine-line-between-educating-and-

 

shaming/262401/

 

 

Look at some of these and you will see how your line of thinking is actually exacerbating an issue you are against.

 

This is not to say that we should not try to educate people on fitness and how to get there. I think there is a huge difference between starting a conversation like,"I notice you might be able to use a little help with diet, and I know a little bit" or even Being overweight is seriously detrimental to your health and if you would like I might be able to help" than" OK fatty, we all know being a gelatinous fat body is bad for you so eat better and exercise"

 

Personally I wont tell someone they are overweight. Instead I invite them to do activities. I have a neighbor who is a little heavy and since I have broken my neck we go walking to the river everyday and back and he is losing a little weight, nothing major but a little. if you feel you must say something then going with what I said above is probably a better approach. I think you would also be shocked to find out how many big people will go exercising if you will actually talk to them like a human being and not make fun of them for poor fitness. Most big people will probably go walking if they feel it is with someone who is not going to judge them and give them a worse self image then they already had, where is the motivation in that?

Edited June 20, 2017 by Omerta

[ATL_Predator+ 1,196]

Although I don't agree with Bware's approach or how he is wording his responses... I agree with his general sentiment.

 

Making excuses for people doesn't empower them. It only enables them to continue spiraling out of control.

 

I think some of these obese people need an intervention, from a healthcare professional. Of course they will be treated like respect, as they should be. But they also need to be told how it is and what will happen if they don't make serious lifestyle changes.

 

I think there's a solid number of people that would seek help from a professional... however the cost of such things isn't in the average American's normal budget. It's hard enough to make ends meet as is and it's not getting any better.

 

Our schools have cut sport programs and merged schools so kids don't have a chance to really play, and we are seeing the result of that more and more everyday.

[seanbrock 1,684]

I think something that needs to stop is promoting women being overweight as "healthy." I don't know if any of you who have seen that kind of shit and the funny thing is the only guys who like the look of anorexic women are the gays in the fashion industry and other women. Most men like a healthy looking woman with some tits and ass.This whole thing is messed up.

[Omerta+ 1,206]

I think something that needs to stop is promoting women being overweight as "healthy." I don't know if any of you who have seen that kind of shit and the funny thing is the only guys who like the look of anorexic women are the gays in the fashion industry and other women. Most men like a healthy looking woman with some tits and ass.This whole thing is messed up.

 

This I can get on board with. Truthfully we need to leave telling people what their health level is to health professionals. That is the PCOS thing that is not really a disease. Medical Professionals are starting to get more vague diagnoses because they are constantly for being sued for malpractice. My wife is a physical therapist and she says that it has become common practice for doctors to label a person with knee pain instead of a torn MCL to avoid malpractice liability. And if you have sued a doctor in this country forget about being treated with specificity.

 

Most doctors will tell overweight women they have PCOS which is a symptom instead of a disease, so that way they can not be held liable for a misdiagnosis unless they prescribe pills, and even then it is harder. The data on women who do nothing about their weight once they find out they have PCOS is terrifying. It has not been published yet but there is data in the medical community that show women are almost 40% less likely to try to achieve health after hearing PCOS versus not because they think it is a disease instead of a symptom.

[BwareDWare94 723]

I think something that needs to stop is promoting women being overweight as "healthy." I don't know if any of you who have seen that kind of shit and the funny thing is the only guys who like the look of anorexic women are the gays in the fashion industry and other women. Most men like a healthy looking woman with some tits and ass.This whole thing is messed up.

Did you mean underweight as healthy? I find superthin hot too if it's a fit thin. Sunken cheeks and visible ribs? Eat something, girl

[seanbrock 1,684]

I'm not generally into super thin but I guess there could be exceptions. A girl needs to have some ass and nice tits for me to be attracted. I'm not too pick about the size of the tits.

[DonovanMcnabb for H.O.F 2,241]

Dmac, would you agree that it is possible to empathize with someone while hoping that they will do better for themselves? I still kinda feel like you guys really aren't expecting people to take responsibility for what they do with their own lives. As a culture I believe we have gone past the point of empathy to catering to these people at times.

 

Obesity is the sum of many factors, agreed, but why can we not ask people to control at least the ones that they are able to? No matter what, eating well and working out will help you lose weight. And beyond that, you will just generally feel better, and healthy lifestyles help reverse the effects of depression and other mental disorders.

 

Not having time to eat healthy is a poor excuse for a lot of people (but not all). Use a few hours on a day off to meal prep for the whole week. It's also not a lot more expensive to make your own stuff. Buy a dozen eggs, some oatmeal, and a loaf of bread. For most people, that's going to be $10 for many, many breakfasts. How is that expensive? Even the dollar menu is not cheaper than that.

 

I think you can be empathetic while also expecting people to do what they an to make their situations better.

 

Considering the often mentioned link between obesity and poverty in America, is not having enough money also a poor excuse?

 

And I don't disagree with the idea of expecting people to do more with their situation, I'm just saying that it doesn't seem like some of you guys are empathetic at the fact that it's not that easy for more people then you think.

 

People will say, walk more, drive less. Easy said, but what about the people who live in big cities where the only way to get around is by car? People who live in neighborhoods that aren't safe?

 

People will say eat better, but what about the kids whose parents can't afford to make them good food and that isn't readily available to them?

 

I get that there are lazy people out there who don't do enough and should be criticized and expected to do better. But I'm just not ready to buy that this applies to a majority of people in this country... Unless if someone has stats to throw out that I haven't been seeing.

 

The food deserts part is a very fair point, but I'd still argue it's incredibly possible to avoid large weight gains without getting adequate veggies and fruits.

 

It's not necessarily the quality of the food that is the problem in many cases. The weight I personally lost, which was mostly just fat, came off from simply drinking water and restricting my eating habits. It wasn't from working out extensively or eating overwhelming healthy. I'd argue that's a method in which many people can lose weight, especially when they are getting to obesity levels.

 

We're not necessarily talking about bigger individuals who are working non-stop and eating on the go to provide for a family. I'm personally talking about people who are 350+ pounds without medical conditions to attribute to weight gain. Those individuals are simply not willing to compromise an overconsumption of food for the sake of their health.

 

Water is one of the easiest ways to lose weight, and it's heavily underutilized. Over 90% of the tap water in the United States is safe to drink, and it may have increased since last checked in 2006. Tap water also only costs $0.004 per gallon, while Soda can costs upwards to $4 or so per gallon. Hell, you can usually get tap water at almost any location you'll go to.

 

Lol Dmac please don't ever say check your privilege again that shit is making me cringe. The only reason I brought it up was because JD tried to say I was targeting others who are "different" to make myself feel better. I know a lot of people struggle with weight problems, but an incredibly large percentage still only have themselves to blame.

 

A food desert isn't just a food desert because there's no fruits and veggies, its a food desert because they don't have access to affordable healthy foods and an abundance of unhealthy ones.

 

Your claim that it's mostly not a food problem is a puzzling one considering the fact that most health professionals seem to agree that while there are many problems that leads to America's obesity problem, nutrition and food choices tops the list.

 

You can probably find more examples of people in America who have become more fit by simply eating better then by going to the gym. And for a vast majority of people living in poverty in America, this simply isn't a choice.

 

You can drink all the water you want, restrict how much you eat a day, but when you can spend $5 at McDonalds and feed more mouths then $5 to get something healthy, it won't matter how much water you drink.

 

I think something that needs to stop is promoting women being overweight as "healthy." I don't know if any of you who have seen that kind of shit and the funny thing is the only guys who like the look of anorexic women are the gays in the fashion industry and other women. Most men like a healthy looking woman with some tits and ass.This whole thing is messed up.

 

This I can agree with to a certain degree. I know real people who are overweight, can do something about it, and chose to instead post and share social media related stuff about how its healthy ad normal to be overweight. And when you tell them it's not, they'll flip out on you.

 

But I also understand that for every one of those, there are plenty who have so many issues that being healthy isn't, or can't be that high on there priority list. And that's real.

[GA_Eagle 595]

I don't think anyone is saying it easy, honestly. Cause it's hard and it takes self control... BUT you can eat absolute junk and not eat so much of it and still lose weight. Calories in vs out. I don't care if all you eat is Cheetos and beer. If you keep it to 1500 calories as an adult male you will lose weight.

 

You will likely have a bunch of other issues since you won't get any of the protein, healthy fats, etc, but you will lose weight. I realize there are a ton of causes to a persons obesity but inability to exercise or what ever a food desert is is not a valid excuse. Eat less calories = lose weight. It is exactly that simple. I don't think you SHOULD just eat crap, only less of it but you CAN is all I'm saying. It takes minimal effort to figure out a rough estimate of the amount of calories in your food as most food service places, including McDonald's put the calories right in the menu and it is readily available on line.

 

Now depression links, societal issues as far as culture is concerned I get, I just don't see lack of money as a valid excuse.

 

Btw, excercise as a means to lose weight is a sham. It will help a little, but it is for becoming more healthy not for losing weight.

Edited June 22, 2017 by GA_Eagle

[blotsfan 2,112]

New healthcare bill has been released. Even bigger Medicaid cut and no funding for planned parenthood. But the rich get a bigger tax cut.

 

Fuck this country

[Omerta+ 1,206]

New healthcare bill has been released. Even bigger Medicaid cut and no funding for planned parenthood. But the rich get a bigger tax cut.

 

Fuck this country

 

Honestly I think if PP was not synonymous with abortions they would get more funding. I realize it is a small part of what they do, but do you think most people do? To some an abortion is the most heinous thing a human being can do, and they would have a valid argument. I think their clinics for affordable or free contraception is outstanding and if that is what they did exclusively I think they would always be funded to be honest.

 

As to medicaid, that is a rabbithole and a fucked up system, but people depend on it, so what do you do?

[blotsfan 2,112]

Because fuck the right. They provide all kinds of woman's health coverage. They already don't get federal subsidies for abortions. The republicans just continuously try to make it so they can't get federal health care money to punish them for what they get paid for through private donations and regular payments. It's a legal medical procedure that has been upheld by the Supreme Court. If you want to be a comprehensive women's health facility then you need to provide abortions. And spare me any talk of a Republican caring about life when they're gutting health care for millions of people.

[seanbrock 1,684]

I shared this thing on Facebook a while back that summed it up pretty well. "No matter who you vote for, the rich stay rich, the poor stay poor and the bombs never stop." The opposition has been marginalized to such a degree at this point that they've almost eliminated all meaningful opposition. We can change that but it won't be easy. It's kind of funny how easy it was to turn the great liberal health care plan into this. Does anyone honestly believe that that wasn't by design?

[Omerta+ 1,206]

Because fuck the right. They provide all kinds of woman's health coverage. They already don't get federal subsidies for abortions. The republicans just continuously try to make it so they can't get federal health care money to punish them for what they get paid for through private donations and regular payments. It's a legal medical procedure that has been upheld by the Supreme Court. If you want to be a comprehensive women's health facility then you need to provide abortions. And spare me any talk of a Republican caring about life when they're gutting health care for millions of people.

 

Honestly it is the one thing lawmakers get right to be honest. I have long been a proponent of our elected officials representing the people that elected them. To this day the MAJORITY of Americans do not believe it should be legal. So if that is the case why should the majority of a country fund something they violently oppose on more than just a political ground. It truly is reprehensible from a religious standpoint. I am fine with it being outlawed, I am fine with it being legal as long as the fetus has no heartbeat, after that I think it is murder. I am also fine with a compromise where raped women, and when birth presents a great chance of killing the mother than those are fine imo. Really I have no real skin in the game, but I do think that congress is on board with the people on this one issue.

[blotsfan 2,112]

 

Honestly it is the one thing lawmakers get right to be honest. I have long been a proponent of our elected officials representing the people that elected them. To this day the MAJORITY of Americans do not believe it should be legal. So if that is the case why should the majority of a country fund something they violently oppose on more than just a political ground. It truly is reprehensible from a religious standpoint. I am fine with it being outlawed, I am fine with it being legal as long as the fetus has no heartbeat, after that I think it is murder. I am also fine with a compromise where raped women, and when birth presents a great chance of killing the mother than those are fine imo. Really I have no real skin in the game, but I do think that congress is on board with the people on this one issue.

Yeah and people were pro-slavery. Doesn't make it right.

 

Also, you admit yourself it's wrong from a religious perspective. Well guess what? We don't (well, aren't supposed to) make laws based off of that over here.

[Omerta+ 1,206]

Yeah and people were pro-slavery. Doesn't make it right.

 

Also, you admit yourself it's wrong from a religious perspective. Well guess what? We don't (well, aren't supposed to) make laws based off of that over here.

 

Absolutely just because a majority like it does not mean it is a good thing.

 

You are also correct but when we arent supposed to make laws according to religious tenets. That said we also do a lot of things the framers said we should not, like meddle in peoples business, send relief to other countries or what have you, alas we do it anyway. It is hypocritical to hide behind the framers when it is convenient but when boogeyman like Kony pop up, or thinks happen in Haiti, to want us to automatically do something. It is one or the other if you are going by that playbook. Not saying you in particular, just as a general thing.

Yeah and people were pro-slavery. Doesn't make it right.

 

Also, you admit yourself it's wrong from a religious perspective. Well guess what? We don't (well, aren't supposed to) make laws based off of that over here.

 

And even at that the majority of people were not pro slavery.

[blotsfan 2,112]

I don't need the framers to justify why we shouldn't make laws based on religion. All religion is literally unproveable and anyone can make it up. Doing something for the sake of religion sets an impossible standard because I could start a religion tomorrow that says abortion must be available to all and it'd be no more or less valid than Christianity.

[Thanatos 2,847]

 

See this is strange because PCOS was not really a big thing until recently. It is almost as if the disease was made up. To this day it is not classified as a disease just a set of symptoms, but when you look at those symptoms they are synonymous with being overweight. Seriously looking at the effects they can all also be caused by poor diet and no exercise.

 

I have an obstetrician/dietitian in the family and she will openly admit it, that it is something that is a made up disease that has never existed in society before until we looked for a reason to absolve poor choices. Basically she will say that it is a disease that fat women made up.

 

I am not sure about all that but what the research does show is that it can be managed to the point of no symptoms with diet and exercise which is also a cure for obesity. The research also shows there is no common causes, no patters of symptoms, no common presentations or onsets in different demographics, and really there is no rhyme or reason to it.

 

All this is to really say is that PCOS may well be something that we should investigate and quit diagnosing so that people will have to come to terms with what got them in bad shape. There are countless "hero pieces" on the web of women having trouble conceiving and then they lose weight, conceive, and they no longer have the issues they once did. I am just not sure I buy PCOS as a real "disease".

 

AS to shaming, it should not be a crime to expect people to be accountable for their health. That said, you also should not wake up in the morning trying to ruin a persons day. If a person is big, odds are they know it. The odds also are they have heard a million times how to get rid of it (diet and exercise). So there is a big difference between telling relatives"Hey, I want you around in ten years so you need to make better choices for your family and friends, but most of all for you" versus " Jesus fat fuck, would you quit sweating Crisco on me and do something about your slovenly appearance, you are embarrassing me"

 

I really would like to see some substantiated peer reviewed data about PCOS that meets the criteria of a disease, but there is none yet.

 

Wow. That is absolutely the most ignorant statement I've ever seen you make on here. Anyone who tells you PCOS is a made-up disease is absolutely full of shit and has no fucking clue what they are talking about. Same goes for anyone who tells you there are no common denominators, because there are.

 

My girlfriend has PCOS and was diagnosed as such by three different doctors, and there are absolutely symptoms that go along with the disease. Not only do you have the weight gain and such- though its more keeping the weight off that is the actual problem- but you have an overabundance of testoterone which causes her, as a woman, to grow facial hair and forces her to shave a good deal. She will not have a period at all unless she takes birth control, (this is different for different women). It has been shown to lead to heart disease, regardless of the weight of the person involved. It makes it damn near impossible for her to get pregnant, unless she takes a mountain of pills for fertility treatment. Her hormones are entirely out of balance. She has cysts that grow inside of her, on her ovaries, as do most with PCOS- thus the name, Polycystic Ovary Syndrome. I could go on for three pages here. I guess she's imagining all that too?

 

It's incredibly offensive to me to belittle her suffering by claiming she doesn't really suffer from a disease at all, and that its just made up because we didn't discover it until recently. Newsflash: we have a great deal more tech now than 10 years ago, and even more than 20 years ago, of course we are going to figure out things now that we didn't then.

Edited June 22, 2017 by Thanatos

[Omerta+ 1,206]

 

Wow. That is absolutely the most ignorant statement I've ever seen you make on here. Anyone who tells you PCOS is a made-up disease is absolutely full of shit and has no fucking clue what they are talking about. Same goes for anyone who tells you there are no common denominators, because there are.

 

My girlfriend has PCOS and was diagnosed as such by three different doctors, and there are absolutely symptoms that go along with the disease. Not only do you have the weight gain and such- though its more keeping the weight off that is the actual problem- but you have an overabundance of testoterone which causes her, as a woman, to grow facial hair and forces her to shave a good deal. She will not have a period at all unless she takes birth control, (this is different for different women). It has been shown to lead to heart disease, regardless of the weight of the person involved. It makes it damn near impossible for her to get pregnant, unless she takes a mountain of pills for fertility treatment. Her hormones are entirely out of balance. She has cysts that grow inside of her, on her ovaries, as do most with PCOS- thus the name, Polycystic Ovary Syndrome. I could go on for three pages here. I guess she's imagining all that too?

 

Please don't act like you know something when you don't. It's incredibly offensive to me to belittle her suffering by claiming she doesn't really suffer from a disease at all, and that its just made up because we didn't discover it until recently. Newsflash: we have a great deal more tech now than 10 years ago, and even more than 20 years ago, of course we are going to figure out things now that we didn't then.

 

No PCOS is a symptom/condition/syndrome not a disease. And it is not a matter of who told me, research says that. I am sorry but your girlfriend has lazy doctors instead of finding out what is really wrong with her. Seriously look at the research and stop going off on me about you being all caught in your feelings because science says you are wrong. Dont come at me with your anger or incredulous bullshit. I am all for having a debate about this seeing as there is plenty of evidence to support the conclusion that PCOS is a symptom not a disease, and it is backed up by the American Medical Association. That said if you are going to get all sophomoric and start name calling and replying out of but hurt than you can take a piss up a rope.

 

dis·ease

[dəˈzēz]

 

 

NOUN

1. a disorder of structure or function in a human, animal, or plant, especially one that produces specific signs or symptoms or that affects a specific location and is not simply a direct result of physical injury:

   https://www.womenshealth.gov/a-z-topics/polycystic-ovary-syndrome

   http://www.positivehealth.com/article/case-studies/case-study-polycystic-ovarian-syndrome-pcos

   http://www.pcos.northwestern.edu/

   All of these places are peer reviewed doctoral research and call it a disorder or a syndrome NOT a disease. Here:

   http://amastyleinsider.com/2011/11/21/condition-disease-disorder/

   Argue with the American Medical Association.

   Where the fuck exactly do you get off acting like you know something? Apparently you dont know shit with your smug ass attitude.

   THe AMA says it is not a disease, The HArvard MEdical Review says the same thing, the Chicago school of medicine, The British Medical Journal all say it is not a disease, but you in all your infinite wisdom know better. This could have been a helpful discussion but you in turn tried to be a prick about it, so really all helpful dialogue is off the table. Way to go.

    

   The exact pathophysiology of PCOS is very complex and remains largely unknown. There are many suggested etiologies for the development of PCOS. While none of the currently proposed hypotheses have full experimental support, what has become clear is that there is an underlying hormonal imbalance that is created by a combination of increased androgens and the effects of insulin resistance. It has also been discovered that there are genetic and environmental factors that contribute to this hormonal imbalance, and these factors contribute to PCOS when combined with ovarian dysfunction, hypothalamic pituitary abnormalities, and obesity (Garad et al., 2011).

    

 

http://encompass.eku.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1114&context=honors_theses

 

Oh and Newsflash, the term has been around for the last 6 decades

 

 

 

PCOS is also sometimes called "functional ovarian hyperandrogenism" or "ovarian androgen excess." But, because the term "polycystic ovary syndrome" has been used for more than six decades, and is well-entrenched in both common usage and medical literature, its use is likely to continue.

 

http://www.uchospitals.edu/specialties/pcos/pcos.html#P53_3629

Edited June 22, 2017 by Omerta

[Thanatos 2,847]

Oh fucking excuse me, I didn't know we were going into semantics. You were acting like it wasn't anything at all and was made-up. If you actually read any of those links, not a one of them support your claim that this is something fat women just made up. Sure its not a disease like cancer, but its not just a series of random symptoms that are actually just obesity in disguise or something. It's a disorder, much like ADHD (assuming you think that exists and wasn't made up), or OCD. Except it comes with more physical symptoms than those, which have primarily mental symptoms.

 

Cysts are real and they happen, and they grow inside women who have it. Testosterone being out of balance is a common symptom of PCOS because of the hormonal imbalance from it. There's a genetic factor to it, we know that much. The ovaries are literally enlarged. Periods happen infrequently or not at all- without medicine. These are all extremely common in PCOS, though not 100%, certainly, which is why its hard to pin down. It doesnt mean its made up. The body also becomes resistant to insulin, which can happen to fat people, but, this can happen in PCOS even in people who are not overweight. It contributes to and can cause depression.

 

You seem to be under the false impression that PCOS is only diagnosed in fat people, btw, which is completely untrue.

 

I never said the term hadn't been around, you said that it only "became big" recently. Yeah its because we have better technology and can detect a lot more shit than we could then. It's like arguing ADHD is made up because we didn't diagnose it a hundred years ago. It's a dumb argument.

 

It's not "me in all my infinite wisdom," its living with someone who has had the disorder for the past two and a half years and taking her to several different doctors who explain and try to give her treatment for it. I'm glad that you with your twenty minutes of research on the fucking internet think you know more than at least three differing doctors who specialize in it and can call them lazy for not ignoring what the symptoms point to because some internet specialist says that they're just making shit up.

 

My sister suffers from Gastroparesis. We don't know what the fuck causes that either, and it varies from person to person as well as to what exactly happens. Guess we're making that up too? She should just get over it and learn to stop vomiting up half of what she eats.

 

You're the one who started this crap by claiming it was made-up. Don't act all holier than thou because I took offense at your belittling of people who suffer from it.

Edited June 22, 2017 by Thanatos

[Omerta+ 1,206]

I never said it was made up. I said a family member said it, my sister in law. The VERY NEXT STATEMENT I said I didnt know about that, but I said THE RESEARCH says that. The entire crux of your argument is based upon you wanting to be offended and then be a prick to me because you read it to fast and wanted to be angry at someone.

 

And dont say its semantics, it isn't in the medical sense there is a a clear and definitive difference. If you are not going to see that than fine. Dont act like they are the same to doctors though, because they are not. Seeing as this is a conversation about a MEDICAL condition I would figure that would be relevant. I guess my logic of leaving medicine to doctors is way to much though.

 

Again I have a sister in law I have known for 8 years who specializes in it, which it more than 2 and half with a girlfriend. Which I guess is irrelevant as the AMA is written by you know....world renowned doctors. And I would be willing to bet those doctors didn't call it a disease either...did they?

 

And how sad is it "my 20 minutes of research on the internet" proves me to be correct. Quit fucking raging, and read what I said. I did not say it was made up.

 

Yes it is a fact it became big lately with the Nichole Arbour video as a matter of fact. Did you know that not all women that have PCOS have cysts on their ovaries. Why would they diagnose them with it even if they did not have the cysts.

 

And I like how now you call it a disorder in your second post lol. You know I am correct. You are just mad at something you THOUGHT I said, which go back and re-read it. I didn't even say it lol. That response and post was so fucking lame. Heres what we learned from your posts.

 

I never said what you claimed to, but you wanted to yell anyway. Instead of listening to what I said you just imputed something to me and argued that.

 

You are sensitive.

 

You dont like it when other doctors contradict you, you dont like it when the rest of us inferior knaves can find things and think for ourselves. I find several articles that back up my claim, and instead of willing to be wrong you appeal to the emotional argument of "My Girlfriend". This is a logical fallacy, its called the masked man, illicit major and appeal to stone fallacy.

 

You create a "look at me" post by claiming you know something, that when rebutted from someone else, you make them to be the bad guy when they never said what you claim.

 

 

I have a challenge, go back and quote where I said it was made up. I'll wait.

 

Next time instead of getting all asshurt read what the fuck I said before you put words in my mouth.

Edited June 22, 2017 by Omerta

[Thanatos 2,847]

First off, people use disorder and disease interchangeably in many cases. Your own link states it: Like condition, disorder is sometimes used as a value-neutral term in place of disease.—Phil Sefton, ELS

 

Sure, I wasn't technically correct. So very sorry about that. I was talking solely about the *disorder*- since we're being technical here- being made-up, as your initial post- and follow ups- "PCOS, which is not really a disease" 100% implies. If you were using disease purely in the technical sense here, then I apologize, but that is certainly not how it came off to me. "PCOS, which is not really a disease, its a disorder!" was not the vein I read it in, it was definitely more "PCOS, which is not really a disease, as its probably made-up."

 

Secondly, unless you've spent a large amount of the last eight years specifically talking to your sister-in-law, you really don't have a leg to stand on here. Have you been dragged along to doctor's visit after doctor visit and listened to them talk about it for hours on end? Somehow I highly doubt it.

 

The entire first paragraph of the post I quoted is almost entirely incorrect:

 

See this is strange because PCOS was not really a big thing until recently. It is almost as if the disease was made up. To this day it is not classified as a disease just a set of symptoms, but when you look at those symptoms they are synonymous with being overweight. Seriously looking at the effects they can all also be caused by poor diet and no exercise.

 

You're simply flat wrong. Many of PCOS's symptoms are not synonymous with simply being overweight. Again, you are laboring under the delusion that PCOS is only diagnosed on fat people. Simply take a look at the web. There are plenty of women around 120 pounds- hardly obese- that talk about their experiences with PCOS and how they are trying to have children and having no success.

 

Sure, I admit I thought you were saying it was made-up, maybe because your entire post implies as such. "All the effects can be caused by poor diet and exercise," for example.

 

"The research shows that it can be managed to the point of no symptoms with diet and exercise." - Hormone imbalance, for those that have it, is unaffected. Medication can deal with it to an extent.

 

Cysts on the ovaries dont magically disappear for those who diet and exercise. I can personally attest to this, as we've been trying all sorts of different diets and exercises and nothing is helping there. The cysts are benign and not really a threat, however, so its a minor concern, though it is almost certain they are contributing to the testosterone problem. But they certainly aren't there simply because of weight.

 

Having a very hard time getting pregnant isn't something that magically happens because you're fat. You might have a hard time delivering, and sure, its harder to get pregnant, maybe, but its nothing like PCOS where you basically have to have fertility treatments. There are always exceptions to any rule, and PCOS is no different. There are miracle births, but this doesn't mean PCOS is just made up. Just because condoms are only 98% effective, doesn't mean we should all just stop using them. That's absurd.

 

Why would they diagnose them with it if they don't have the cysts? Idk, maybe because the doctors that specialize in it realize its a very complex *disorder* that isn't easy to make a catch-all list of symptoms? Much like gastroparesis, which suffers from the same problem. Doesn't mean either of them is somehow not really a problem to those who have it.

 

It's far more likely that both PCOS and Gastro affect multiple systems, which then trigger differing effects in different people, depending on a large variety of factors.

Edited June 22, 2017 by Thanatos

[blotsfan 2,112]

It is almost as if the disease was made up.