Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Cherry

Cherry's 2018 Scouting Notebook: Nothing Stops This Train

Recommended Posts

Added a shitload of spreadsheets to my website. Like 90 new ones from last update.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, I am bored so I decided to look into some QBs. I'll probably do my own thread for my overall takes but for starters I looked at Rosen and Allen. I think I can already foresee us disagreeing on Mayfield but who knows maybe my opinion will change when I watch more (was not impressed when I was watching the Georgia game).

 

I agree with you on Rosen almost completely. But I do think your low/med/high was a bit lazy. I didn't see anything pre-snap from Rosen so I can't throw him in that same breath of Peyton (potential wise) if he hasn't shown that he can make pre-snap adjustments and really takeover the offense. Of course, just because I didn't see him do it does not mean he can't. I think Rosen reminds me a lot of the Alex Smith of recent just because he constantly hits open receivers and can make plays on the move. What I like is that he plays with ego, has a very good arm, and he is unafraid to make challenging throws. Definite NFL caliber QB. I really hope he goes to NY because I just see him as a perfect fit in that city.

 

Josh Allen, your grade seems maybe slightly low for what I saw and what his potential is. His receivers were never open but he typically threw the ball where only his receivers could catch it though they rarely ever made the play so statistically he didn't look great at times. I agree with your wording on his mechanics that he often does look stuck in the mud, however, his arm is so good sometimes it didn't matter at all i/e the ball gets there and is catchable. That is just talent. Bottom line, I didn't come away with an opinion that he has terrible accuracy. His reads probably need work though like you were saying, the one INT in the Utah State game was atrocious. But you have to consider what he seemed to be working with and it works both ways when discussing whether he can make the jump. His performance at the senior bowl (higher competition) helps a bit in my book. One thing I think you overlooked was his ball security. Specifically, during the Air Force game, he was palming the ball often when on the move. That will get punished in the NFL. Oh and he takes unnecessary hits at times. I think Cutler is a very good comparison you gave BUT I don't see him being similar to Derek Carr.

Edited by BJORN

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The problem with low/med/high is that it's literally impossible to find something that works perfectly. I do it so people don't correlate the success of the player comp with the traits of the player comp. Trait-wise I think Rosen at his peak could be very similar. Not necessarily based on what he's doing pre-snap, but what he looks like as a passer. He's a tall guy who stands still as a statue in the pocket and distributes with smart accurate passes. Rosen's grade as a perennial pro bowler makes it so I have a very narrow group of quarterbacks in which I can compare him to as a high. I think both the Manning brothers fit very well.

 

I didn't see that at all with Rosen in the "make plays on the move" area. He didn't impress me at all as a scrambler and didn't seem comfortable throwing off platform. I definitely do like that he has a little bit of cockiness to him. It's going to be a big question going forward though, because I know a lot of people are doubting his ability to mesh with a locker room.

 

The grade isn't really on potential, so it's just a matter of different values for us with Allen. I try to just write down what I'm seeing on tape and give a grade of their overall skillset without projecting what they're capable of becoming. His short accuracy can get horrendous at times when he tries to force things, and he'll have some pretty easy throws go zipping past his target.

 

I agree 100% about his supporting cast. Most Josh Allen haters trash that argument, but it's a valid one. You should really check out Benjamin Solak's Contextualized Quarterbacking on Twitter. He charted all of Allen's games and compared it with some of the other senior bowl quarterbacks. I think it says a lot about Allen's ball placement inconsistencies.

 

I've heard a lot of people saying Kyle Boller and Jake Locker are good comps for Allen, but I'm mixed. I don't remember much about Boller, but from what I do it's a good comparison. Locker on the other hand was much more athletically gifted with a weaker arm than Allen. The Carr comp comes from the arm talent and ability to extend the play. I though about using Rodgers as the high, but that seemed just a tad too friendly. I'll probably flip back and forth on it a few times as the high comp before the end of draft season.

Edited by Chernobyl426

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Regarding, Rosen's mobility...I saw Alex Smith like mobility where he isn't going to be doing designed runs but he can extend plays or run for the odd first down. I agree, I didn't see much ability to really work some magic on the move so maybe I should have worded that better but he does have legs. I definitely don't see him as a statue-like pocket passer.

 

Allen, I specifically watched games against teams with the best pass defense numbers over the season so I didn't watch the Oregon or Iowa game which apparently were source material against Allen. I probably need to watch more on this guy.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Didn't see Oregon game which I heard was a complete shitshow. Iowa wasn't terrible, but showed the ups and downs he has a prospect. Really good tape to watch on him to get an overall view.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Didn't see Oregon game which I heard was a complete shitshow. Iowa wasn't terrible, but showed the ups and downs he has a prospect. Really good tape to watch on him to get an overall view.

After watching the Iowa tape, I'd agree as far as an overall view. BUT I still don't see a lot of the accuracy criticisms he gets. He is by no means perfect...but the passes he missed...I have seen NFL QBs, like Rivers, miss from time to time. And a lot of the missed throws would probably be caught in the NFL (or we'd see a better effort at least). The one area I do see him struggling in is reads/receiver lock on. The Josh Jackson, while a very good player by all accounts, interception was on him. And he nearly threw one to Josey Jewell (another good player).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

With the end of NFL season upon us.... reality has set in that Cherry will underrate amazing defenders yet again.

 

giphy.gif

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

After watching the Iowa tape, I'd agree as far as an overall view. BUT I still don't see a lot of the accuracy criticisms he gets. He is by no means perfect...but the passes he missed...I have seen NFL QBs, like Rivers, miss from time to time. And a lot of the missed throws would probably be caught in the NFL (or we'd see a better effort at least). The one area I do see him struggling in is reads/receiver lock on. The Josh Jackson, while a very good player by all accounts, interception was on him. And he nearly threw one to Josey Jewell (another good player).

Want some Iowa all-22? :smug:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Alright Cherry. Super Bowl is over. Now it's draft time.

 

You think Bradley Chubb at #1 for Cleveland makes sense. Having him AND Garrett plus you're almost guaranteed to still get a top 5 overall QB.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Alright Cherry. Super Bowl is over. Now it's draft time.

 

You think Bradley Chubb at #1 for Cleveland makes sense. Having him AND Garrett plus you're almost guaranteed to still get a top 5 overall QB.

 

Saw someone saying that if you're willing to take a QB at 4, you're willing to take a QB at 1. Wouldn't make sense for the Browns to drop the #1 on a non-QB for a guy who's not a generational talent (like most argued Garrett was/is) then go back for one of the QBs at 4 who might not be your guy. You take a QB at 1 or trade back to someone who wants a QB at 1 if you're the Browns. If Rosen doesn't completely ruin all his interviews and Sam Darnold can talk somewhat articulate, those two are going to have teams drooling at the idea of taking them.

 

If Browns really are content to pass on all of the big three (Allen, Rosen, Darnold) then makes the most sense to take Baker at 4 (assuming they like him) and use their other high pick on BPA. If they get #5 from Broncos they could go Baker/Allen at 4 and grab Chubb or Barkley at 5 (assuming Giants go QB).

 

 

Idk if u have a profile on John Kelly but he Kamara 2.0 bet

 

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1ODR7oC9qjFlqL_HxhTALxSf_4kmt2MQFFgzgaX9x3Mw/edit?usp=sharing

 

Website has most of my shiet. Love me some Kelly.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

How's this draft class for LBers? Seems promising.

 

From what I've seen, it's loaded. Rashaan Evans and Roquan are both quality starters. I think Leighton Vander Esch is a pro bowler. Love Micah Kiser as a late sleeper. Jack Cichy if healthy can be a pro bowler.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What if someone just wanted to donate money and not have anything sent to them?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

are there any good TEs that played basketball in college?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What if someone just wanted to donate money and not have anything sent to them?

 

I'll probably add a donate button in the next couple weeks. I've had a couple people saying they wanna give me more than $5 for the PDF. :shrug:

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

are there any good TEs that played basketball in college?

 

Interestingly enough, there aren't any that stand out in my mind. I've only made it through a dozen or so guys though. I think Jordan Akins from UCF might've been one but I can't recall that well.

 

Mike Gesicki played high school basketball I'm pretty sure. WR Courtland Sutton from SMU actually played a little bit of college ball early in his career. TE Hayden Hurst from South Carolina was actually drafted to play baseball when he was younger but it didn't pan out and he returned to school.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

From what I've seen, it's loaded. Rashaan Evans and Roquan are both quality starters. I think Leighton Vander Esch is a pro bowler. Love Micah Kiser as a late sleeper. Jack Cichy if healthy can be a pro bowler.

From what I've seen I think if Vander Esch goes to the right team he could be a monster but I could definitely see him being a bust too. So hard to do this stuff because that makes an enormous impact on how good a player will be or how valuable a player is on one teams draft board vs. another.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

From what I've seen I think if Vander Esch goes to the right team he could be a monster but I could definitely see him being a bust too. So hard to do this stuff because that makes an enormous impact on how good a player will be or how valuable a player is on one teams draft board vs. another.

 

Absolutely. People want to nail draft guys to the wall for missing on prospect grades but a great fit can turn a sixth rounder in to a first rounder production wise. On the other hand if someone with first round talent goes to the wrong fit, they will be ripped to shreds. Alex Smith pre-Harbaugh vs post-Harbaugh is a great example. Goff with Fisher vs McVay another good example. Coaching and scheme fit worth more than raw talent in 90% of cases.

Edited by Chernobyl426
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Position coaches can make a huge difference too. I don't think it's a coincidence that Nelson Agholor had his best season as a pro with a guy like Mike Groh. Scarnecchia is another great example of how impactful position coaches can be.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A buddy of mine who is a Redskins fan swears by Torrian Gray as one of the best cornerback coaches in the league. Huge factor in the development of Bashaud Breeland and Kendall Fuller. Fuller was mediocre in his rookie year then became one of the best nickel corners in the entire league in just one offseason. Value of those positional coaches just can't be overstated.

Edited by Chernobyl426

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What do you think about Dorian O'Daniel? I think he might be a lot more than a workout warrior.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Getting to him in next few days. Will post a spreadsheet for him hopefully on Tuesday or Wednesday.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

  • Chatbox

    Load More
    You don't have permission to chat.
×