"American Values"

[seanbrock 1,684]

What are they in your mind? What do they mean to you?

[RazorStar 4,025]

Destroying indigenous culture, building an empire, fucking over the poor and the non-white, and creating wage slavery.

[BwareDWare94 723]

I can't even put it into words in a way that makes a lot of sense to me, but if I could sum it up in as few words as possible, I'd say "American Values" are varied based on the individual. If the individual places value on things that aren't destructive toward themselves or others, I'd call their values American values.

For me, I value family, friendship, the ability to find passion in small things (for me, that's playing pool and writing), and, above all else, the ability to be happy through perspective. That last one is something I've lost sight of many, many times in recent years, even so far as to fall into depressive periods that have only ever been cured by re-calibrating my perspective. As a whole our country has lost it. We have individuals convinced that they're depressed because they had a bad day at the end of which they read 10 sentences on the internet. We live in an incredibly self-absorbed individual culture that creates narcissists at an alarming rate. Children are no longer adults at 18--many are lucky to truly reach adulthood in their mannerisms and ability to do everyday things like manage money by the time they're 30. These individuals allow their moods to swing all the way to the other pole based on tiny little inconsequential things. So at the very least, that American Value is mostly lost.

[seanbrock 1,684]

It's a good thing we have you to show us the way. I asked you about American Values and you mostly talk about how shitty every young person is in America, except for you because you have perspective.

 

How about things like liberty, equality, opportunity, family, community, democracy...idk lol

[BwareDWare94 723]

I talked about how I struggle with the same issues, too, so not sure what your issue with my statement is. We have a narcissism issue in our younger generations, and that definitely has a correlation with all this perceived "depression and anxiety" out there (in this instance I'm referring to the illegitimate self-diagnosis that so many people turn to), which leads to constant destructive behavior. I declared one of my American values as the ability to maintain perspective, and said it was something I struggle with.

Edited October 1, 2017 by BwareDWare94

[Omerta+ 1,206]

IT is hard to say this because a lot of them are lost so we really dont have "values" the way we used to. I am glad certain things have progressed but there has a been a perversion of standards and norms that have lead us down the wrong path as a country to the despicable place we have landed. Anywho here are some that I see now and would like to see more of.

 

Entrepreneurship- I think this means having the courage to strike it on your own and risk everything to make it better than just average.

 

Hard Work- Exactly what it sounds like. Instead of taking the easy path of bitching and looking for handouts, or staying with your parents until you are 35 because that is easy, getting your ass out there and making it happen.

 

Courage-Being willing to have people hate you, or being willing to do the hard thing because it is something you believe in. It is being willing to stand up to anyone, friends included, and say this is the line you must not cross. If you do I will gladly retaliate.

 

Patriotism- I thought about not even going into this one because of the dumbassery of people around here, but I realized it would probably be in direct contradiction to the one above this. This country has faults, but it also affords EVERYONE a lot more than they choose to believe. PEople hate this country and have heard fairy tales of other places and think they are better with never even having seen this one. AT last count I have been to 30+ countries and I can think of two that are out and out better in more areas than they are not. I can think of maybe 10 that are on our level or close. The rest are either shitholes or places that make this country look much better. This country has been made off the back of heroes and provides every single on of us opportunities as it has in the past. IT is a place where there is freedom to make your own choices as long as they really hurt nobody. You get to criticize anything and are legally allowed to do it. It is a place where you can transcend what your family has become, and in general as a people the are good people to be found everywhere.

 

Pride-Having pride in your work, knowing you built something or provided a service that worked as a cog in keeping this country on track. Knowing that at the end of the day you earned your money, and refuse to make excuses as to why it didnt get done, and just get it done. Having pride in yourself, your community, your affiliations, and your country.

 

There are some I prize, there are more, but that is a starter.

[OSUViking 505]

I just love it when people throw out the statistic that the younger generation has higher amounts of narcissism (clinically significant, i.e. narcissistic personality disorder). On one hand, it's likely that if this actually is true it's because we're just better at identifying the condition and there is not as much stigma around it. What's especially ironic is that NPD arises when children are exposed to toxic, neglectful, and/or abusive environments growing up. It's literally a response to childhood trauma. That doesn't excuse any of the things a narcissist may do to others, but I find it funny that people whose generation in part brought up these children mention that. I don't want this to seem like I'm blaming older generations for some woe is me crap, but someone else has to see the irony here.

 

I'll agree though that values will vary by individuals. I think the idea of "American values" is dangerous, because it encourages group think; group think is NOT good under any circumstances. It leads to shit like concentrated and possibly industrialized discrimination. (What do I mean by group think? Something like "I'm American, we're all American, we all need to think this way because we're American". A strong pattern of beliefs across a culture is not necessarily group think.) People need to come to their own conclusions, and weigh how they view the world vs other people. There's nothing wrong with being... wrong... I agree that Americans in general (although frankly it's easier to just say people in general) are very attached to their egos. Being wrong or failing is scary for sure, but they are learning experiences.

Edited October 1, 2017 by OSUViking

[Omerta+ 1,206]

You would be more believable if it werent obvious you are jaded against the country.

[Omerta+ 1,206]

And yet here you sit a 50 something do nothing bitch sitting on the couch with your tin foil hat living off this countries tit, slinging arrows at the hand that feeds you. For a guy that is anti stupidity that is a stupid idea.

 

Look I know life aint easy for a cameron ferris Buller retread, but acting as though we are below you and then talking shit on a country you contribute nothing to is rich.

[BwareDWare94 723]

I just love it when people throw out the statistic that the younger generation has higher amounts of narcissism (clinically significant, i.e. narcissistic personality disorder). On one hand, it's likely that if this actually is true it's because we're just better at identifying the condition and there is not as much stigma around it. What's especially ironic is that NPD arises when children are exposed to toxic, neglectful, and/or abusive environments growing up. It's literally a response to childhood trauma. That doesn't excuse any of the things a narcissist may do to others, but I find it funny that people whose generation in part brought up these children mention that. I don't want this to seem like I'm blaming older generations for some woe is me crap, but someone else has to see the irony here.

 

I'll agree though that values will vary by individuals. I think the idea of "American values" is dangerous, because it encourages group think; group think is NOT good under any circumstances. It leads to shit like concentrated and possibly industrialized discrimination. (What do I mean by group think? Something like "I'm American, we're all American, we all need to think this way because we're American". A strong pattern of beliefs across a culture is not necessarily group think.) People need to come to their own conclusions, and weigh how they view the world vs other people. There's nothing wrong with being... wrong... I agree that Americans in general (although frankly it's easier to just say people in general) are very attached to their egos. Being wrong or failing is scary for sure, but they are learning experiences.

 

The horrible narcissists I've dealt with did indeed have childhood trauma, and they would cite their upbringing when their behavior was cruel to others and destructive to both others and themselves.

 

Nothing in your past comes with an excuse to mistreat other people. It's that simple. It's not OK, and we need to be pushing that fact along with the idea that we need to be empathetic in regard to other people's experiences.

 

I dunno, guys, maybe I've just had run-ins with many, many horrible people and that's why I've gotten so deep into the conversation of narcissism and destructive behavior, because I've been a victim of their cruelty coupled with their lack of accountability.

[Omerta+ 1,206]

A country you (I) contribute nothing to...?

You prove my point. You think your life is defined by what wealthy people in power told you to do and that's how you judge others.

You worship the State.

Welcome to Orwellian society.

 

No a country YOU contribute nothing too. You are sitting on your duff doing nothing, taking more than you give so your net effect is less than Zero. I prove nothing other than I have accomplished a hell of a lot at 30 because i choose to believe in something and I am reaping the benefits of it. You believe in nothing that you dont see and you are 53 without a pot to piss in, so dont you sit here and come at people like you get to speak from a place of expertise.

 

If I wanted advice on being useless I would talk to my ex's. I wont listen to you because you have nothing I can learn from, and I dont want a life like yours. By 53 I should have accomplished something.

[Omerta+ 1,206]

See what happened there? I gave actual examples of typical trained American anti intellectualism.

And the best you could do was wannabe insulting joke comments that have nothing to do with who I am or what I think.

You assume govt has the right to restrict people's lives through money. My health should be defined by how much I make?

I already told you the American dream is a myth.

You work your ass off for 5 days on,2 days off and still have to pay taxes and insurance by law.

Sucking off the govt tit? It's been sucking off yours since the day you were born.

You really haven't thought anything through beyond what govt tells you.

 

I'm getting a form of free medical because I currently don't work.i should be getting that regardless if working.

You are proving my point.you are telling me I'm lazy because I don't do what govt told you was the American way.

If someone is poor and steals to survive,they aren't the problem. The system is the problem.

You have no idea what I'm going through.i appear normal but Ive had a couple surgeries and a condition that sometimes gets in the way of normalcy. I should be a second class citizen because I can't work or don't find work?

Lol you have no idea how to think globally or critically about this. So you resort to silly insults because that's how you've Been taught to react to things that confuse your American indoctrinated way of life.

 

 

Seeing this is the sad part, just about everyone could have predicted this. Now you are going to sit here and play the victim, and try to make excuses for why you were lazy and you have no success. Instead of getting up and fighting the good fight, you find it much easier to sit at home and leech off of society and then tell everybody else that they are below you. Do you have any idea how stupid that is? You come on this message board flapping your dick sucker and being a condescending dick trying to tell people that you're older that's no more. We get when you get held to the standards of being older, IE having any measure success in your life. You seem to fall sorry.

 

So you've had a couple of surgeries, man that must be terrible. It's a good thing that nobody ever has to arise from adversity. Six months ago I had two collapsed lungs, broken neck, for busted ribs, and a diagnosis of never being able to walk again. Here I am 6 months later returning to the top of my company and running my company again like nothing had ever happened, because I refuse to accept what they told me is the truth. It sounds simple, and you call it American indoctrination, but sometimes you just got to shut the hell up, throw your nuts over your shoulder, grab your bootstraps and get shit done.

 

Yep people like you again are on the government tit, and then want to come out of message boards full of young kids, or people who are just starting out in life and thumb your nose in their face talking about how they have no life experience, and how we should all listen to you because you're older. How does that make any sense? You get to come on here and insult everybody, but you don't hold yourself to any standard? You have no job, no success, and you're living off the rest of us paying taxes and yet you want to sit here and try to talk down to us.

 

Then, you want to blame the American system and say that stealing is okay. Don't be mad at this country because you dicked your life away and have nothing to show for it. It is nobody's fault but your own that your 53 years old loser who has to resort to living off of everybody else to survive. Look in the mirror honestly and tell yourself how great you are. Or just make more excuses.

 

Now your on here trying to get sympathy for your condition. Boohoo dude. Man up or shut up.

 

And on another thought Phil, you say your awful condition gets in the way "sometimes". Well you talk About how smart you are why are you not using your mind to be self sufficient ? A smart guy like you could be an architect, an engineer, or a myriad of others. A smart guy like you should be changing the world with your intellect. Ypur pattern recognition for NFL games is apparently beyond repute.

 

Why havent you cleaned house in Vegas I wonder ?

 

Edited October 7, 2017 by Zack_of_Steel

[Milla4Prez63 678]

I don't agree with this guy much, but I have a lot of similar thoughts on this. I kind of wish people would care more about other humans more so than pride to make believe borders. I'm more interested in a person's individual values than the values of a collective group of people living in one part of the world.

[OSUViking 505]

 

The horrible narcissists I've dealt with did indeed have childhood trauma, and they would cite their upbringing when their behavior was cruel to others and destructive to both others and themselves.

 

Nothing in your past comes with an excuse to mistreat other people. It's that simple. It's not OK, and we need to be pushing that fact along with the idea that we need to be empathetic in regard to other people's experiences.

 

I dunno, guys, maybe I've just had run-ins with many, many horrible people and that's why I've gotten so deep into the conversation of narcissism and destructive behavior, because I've been a victim of their cruelty coupled with their lack of accountability.

Never said they're excused. I just think it's cheap and hypocritical to pejoratively call millennials "legitimate" narcissists when such people are only around because their parents (often the ones blaming them) were shitbags.

Edited October 3, 2017 by OSUViking

[Omerta+ 1,206]

And that's fine, you don't have to be bound to any imaginary borders, but there is a certain measure of personal accountability that needs to be taken. If you don't believe in these come in imaginary borders then how do you get to blame them for all of your problems. If we are going to start looking at every human on individualistic basis, then every individual human needs to be accountable to that standard.

 

I also agree, that the world could be a little Kinder, and show a little bit more compassion to those who need it. That being said every once in a while, more often than not whichever you choose to believe some people just need to hear the truth about themselves. Not all the time, is there some Grand conspiracy to keep you down, or collusion Among the Stars to make sure that you never find success in life. More often than not in my opinion, it is people who were unwilling to put in the time to get the rewards in which they feel they deserve. This life doesn't give you what you deserve, gives you what you put in. Garbage in garbage out.

[Milla4Prez63 678]

And that's fine, you don't have to be bound to any imaginary borders, but there is a certain measure of personal accountability that needs to be taken. If you don't believe in these come in imaginary borders then how do you get to blame them for all of your problems. If we are going to start looking at every human on individualistic basis, then every individual human needs to be accountable to that standard.

 

I also agree, that the world could be a little Kinder, and show a little bit more compassion to those who need it. That being said every once in a while, more often than not whichever you choose to believe some people just need to hear the truth about themselves. Not all the time, is there some Grand conspiracy to keep you down, or collusion Among the Stars to make sure that you never find success in life. More often than not in my opinion, it is people who were unwilling to put in the time to get the rewards in which they feel they deserve. This life doesn't give you what you deserve, gives you what you put in. Garbage in garbage out.

​I don't disagree with that at all. I just think that human beings from all around the world could do a better job caring for each other and ensuring the longest possible survival for our species, rather than just worrying about your own people. That isn't limited to just countries too that incldudes caring about people of different race, gender, sexual orientation, religion, etc.

[Omerta+ 1,206]

This simply means you don't have the critical thought or comprehensive ability to understand what I said.

I'm not sitting on my duff. I'm just doing what I prefer..tthat's what life is for.not being a slave to the State and laws and restrictions I never aporoved of. You also ignore my personal condition.

I didn't say you...iI was quoting you referencing me dude lol.

You in no way we're able to address my description of how you do things based on how you were told to live. You avoided everything I said.

You don't know shit about my life. I don't take govt assistance at a aside from medical.

You should be thankful you don't gave my issue...when you get older you'll realize you existence will be challenged by whether you gave money.That isn't living.Thats slavery

You base your life on doing and having and pleasing others.That is living.

We aren't allowed to simply "be".

You judge people based on material wealth.

Based on what they do and not who they are. That's the indoctrinated American way.

Your American value is materialism and keeping up with the Jones's.

Govt created that reality.Not mankind.

And you just sit here and make excuses about why you can't. Now you finally told the truth. You prefer sitting on your ass because to you that is living.

 

I put in my time to start my company because I want to be able to sit on my duff in Paris for two weeks, or enjoy the trip to Bora Bora I am taking next year, so I dont turn out to be a 53 years old do nothing bitch wishing I could donsomething with my life and making excuses to people I think don't matter because I don't want to face the sad reality I am on the back nine of my life and a nobody.

 

That is the lazy pile of garbage indoctrination. Take no personal responsibility, take from others, and absolve myself of life choices....nice dude.

Edited October 2, 2017 by Omerta

[Omerta+ 1,206]

How wpuld you know about work when you dont do it lol. In the end we are all dead men. You are just going with nothing and as a burden. That is your cross to bare. I may be a fool, but I am a fool who created something that will outlive either of us you created a dent in the couch, bravo you bum.

 

Where you get your sense of superiority I dont know. Most people on here support you financially, and you talk to them as you do. Say thank you, you colossal dick. You're welcome. The pity you look with on the laborers that build this country is not even close to the pity I feel for a man nobody mourns. The men who build this country is the backbone of our society who deserve more than your derision. At least they have something though.

Edited October 2, 2017 by Omerta

[BwareDWare94 723]

Never said they're excused. I just think it's cheap and hypocritical to pejoratively call millennials "legitimate" narcissists when such people are only around because they're parents (often the ones blaming them) were shitbags.

We're redirecting the responsibility and that is not ok. Their behavior is their own fault.

 

It's so blatantly millennial to point the finger of blame away from themselves

[RazorStar 4,025]

But that's everyone man. No one likes taking responsibility for their actions if they happen to turn out poorly. If anything, passing the buck may be the staple human value.

[Omerta+ 1,206]

Omerta has material value as an American value.Thats why we fail as people

We fail is people because they're people like you, who are just too heavy for the rest of us to carry. The funny part is, that you sit here and talk about all the world would be better without National borders, and if we were all to just live as Free People. The thing about that is though, once you lose protection of the tribe, guys like you starve to death because it's easier to be lazy. Here I am waking up at 2:30 in the morning to go build things, right now my company, is doing a tenant Improvement for the company offer up. What are you going to accomplish today? Not spilling Cheetos on your 30 year old Led Zeppelin shirt? Continuing to take more from the American people, as you tell us why we all suck? I'm going to work and I'm going to pay more taxes, so I can support people like you, you're welcome.

 

You are a hypocrite, you take the benefit of being in the tribe, without contributing anything to it. Yet you sit here and talk about how the tribe is evil. Well, just in case I haven't made my point clear enough you are benefiting from the tribe, you're welcome.

 

Sincerely,

 

The rest of the tribe

Edited October 2, 2017 by Omerta

[seanbrock 1,684]

​I don't disagree with that at all. I just think that human beings from all around the world could do a better job caring for each other and ensuring the longest possible survival for our species, rather than just worrying about your own people. That isn't limited to just countries too that incldudes caring about people of different race, gender, sexual orientation, religion, etc.

To me this is part of American Values, Compassion and empathy. Just remember also that the collective values of society have a major impact on the personal value of all of us. Man it's crazy that like, almost nobody has even actually answered the question. All most people have done so far is just shit on other people for no reason.

 

What are American values in YOUR mind and what do they mean to YOU? Basically what does this country stand for in YOUR eyes or perhaps, ideally what should it stand for?

[Omerta+ 1,206]

You continue to regurgitate your materialism while not grasping my explanation of it.

Your views are due to worshiping money.you call people lesser for not persuing it.

That's ridiculous.

You've already lost the debate.

You keep trying to blame monetary value, as the reason you have to live off of everyone else. It would be one thing if you got assistance, I have no problem with people who do that, we all fall. That being said, you're constantly talking crap about the people that feed you, you always want to bite the hand that is feeding you, you are ungrateful, uneducated, and lacking and any sense of personal accountability.

 

You say I have lost this debate, I say there is no debate. You live off the government, or at least with government assistance. We pay taxes for that. You talk to people on this board like you are superior. You are 53 years old and have no job. You have admitted it was because you would rather sit on your ass because you think that is living more so than working. All of these are facts. They came from your mouth. There is no debate.

[OSUViking 505]

We're redirecting the responsibility and that is not ok. Their behavior is their own fault.

 

It's so blatantly millennial to point the finger of blame away from themselves

"We're redirecting responsibility"

 

> Have literally said everyone is accountable for their actions twice in this thread

 

Stop generalizing millennials. Bad, Bware, bad!

 

You want to encourage people to take responsibility, tell people to stop being shitty parents. You can sit back and say, their children responsible for themselves as adults all you want, and I'd agree with you, but I'd also kindly point out that the parents were shitbags and did nothing but hinder their child's ability to be successful. To not acknowledge that parents play an enormous role in the development of something like 99% of children (the odd 1% being comprised of people who are for the most part immune to neglect and abuse) is just ignoring reality so you can keep living in your fantasy land where there's a singular bad guy (or single group of bad guys, in this case millennials) on whom you can pin the blame for self-perceived issues in society.

 

Everyone has circumstances that they can't change, and as much as they want the world to be a certain way, it won't be and we have to suck it up. I don't want to have schizophrenia, but guess what, life doesn't give a fuck. My brain does not give a fuck. These are my circumstances, and as much as I can fantasize about being mentally healthy, my circumstances will not change that way. (An anecdote, but by the logic of many adults I have encountered, my example alone is literal proof that their perceptions of millenials are incorrect.) You want millennials to fit into a box so you can criticize them. This isn't a generalization, this is literally what you've (as in you, Bware) indicated in your posts. Well guess what, people don't work like that. Suck it up, and find more realistic ways to vent your frustrations.

 

But since you've established that you likely won't trend away from viewing all millennials as a monolithic groups, I'll give you a taste of your own logic.

 

It's so blatantly adult to dismiss someone younger than them as "blatantly millennial" because they (the adult) can't actually defend why they (again, the adult) think millennials suck.

 

I don't actually think that, for the record, because I realize the previous generations aren't fucking hiveminds.

Edited October 3, 2017 by OSUViking

[Omerta+ 1,206]

all youve done is defend materialism and slavery. That does in fact mean i'm more intelligent than you lol.

I need to be a slave/worker bee for you to respect me? youve been taught that..its not a natural fact that needs to be lived by.

I hate to break this to you buddy but you live off the govt while you work.

its them that created the system that makes you have to work and gives you your little money, while they tax the rest from you without your permission.

youve been taught class system warfare. Youve been taught to look down upon anyone not slaving away at a 40 hour or more job.

I'm not defending any criminal welfare stereotype. I've worked. I'm gong to have to work again.

as you get older, youll realize how pointless the rat race is.

I'm simply saying the rat race is not the standard in/for the great scheme of life, nor does it mean someone else is superior to another. But youve accepted being reduced to that

 

you really arent thinking anything through here.

 

as far as the actual reason for the topic lol, really not sure theres any point to any American value.

I have more intelligence in a wet fart. It took you 4 whole days and that is what you came up with. Older people like you are the problem with this country. You want to blame the younger generation for being lazy while you sit on your ass. It is not my fault it took you 53 years to become a drain on society.

 

I don't think I'm superior to you because I make more money. I look down on you because you're a 53 year old man who is spouse is bullshit on the internet because you think you can speak from a place of expertise, well you look down on the younger generation including the members of this community while we sit here and support your right to sit on your ass all day. I look down on you because you look in America as though it some garbage heap, but yet you're more than willing to reap the benefits of what that Society will provide you. I look down on you because your hypocritical douchebag who continues to say the same exact thing post after post after post, telling everyone who goes to work that there's something wrong with us because we don't want your life, we want something better. If you're going to have to work eventually, then what the hell are you waiting for? Are you going to sit on the couch to make some more excuses first or would you rather go out and do something now? You don't have to lie to kick it, I'm not mad that you don't have a job, or even the fact that everyone else has to support you. What pisses me off is that you come on here talking like you're some sort of expert in anything other than sitting on your ass, you want to look down on the rest of the board for what? Having a job? Being productive members of society?

 

Your just another loser who blames America for your problems, when it's your lazy ass who is going to amount to nothing and it's your own fault you're just some tin foil hat wearing, conspiracy theorists, comes on the internet to espouse your bullshit about how everything is fake and America is the problem. I call you on your bullshit you're the problem, you really have to be one of the biggest losers out there. I wait with bated breath, on how you're telling me I regurgitate the same line, which I guess to a point you are correct you are a loser, and I think I've said that just about every post. Other than that though I'm looking forward to four more days, where you tell me that you're older than us you know more and have accomplished something. When you've actually accomplished something of note maybe I'll listen. Now for me it's off to work so that way I can go pay taxes for a leech like you, because our American system of taxes that you criticize require me to support you.

Edited October 7, 2017 by Omerta