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seanbrock

Liberals and libertarians

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Let me preface this by saying I think this is a very important topic that simply does not get discussed nearly enough. I think liberals and libertarians forming a coalition on issues that we agree on. It could be the only way to save our country and I think it's possible. I'm going to start off by listing some things I think we can agree on or at least come close on.

 

Military expenditures/global presense- there is a lot of variation in this but I think we can all agree that war should be declared by Congress. I think we can all agree that we should to some degrees reduce spending and activity on the military.

 

Collective bargaining- this one is huge to me. Collective bargaining must be protected. Is it a perfect system? No but I think it's actually kind of in line with free market principals. It's not the government imposing a minimum wage. It's workers negotiating the terms of employment. We have to stand up for Unions.

 

Live and let live- I think that for the most part we both believe in individual freedom and freedom of speech. I think it's sort of what makes us American. Everyone should have the right to pursue happiness. Get in where you fit in, wherever that may be. I think in the spirit of this is that we all want to stop locking people up for non violent crimes.

 

If I missed any or you disagree, do your thing below. Anyway, I think if we came together and unified around stuff like this we could take our country back from Wallstreet and Silicon Valley.

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Collective bargaining- this one is huge to me. Collective bargaining must be protected. Is it a perfect system? No but I think it's actually kind of in line with free market principals. It's not the government imposing a minimum wage. It's workers negotiating the terms of employment. We have to stand up for Unions.

I have literally no idea why you'd think libertarians like unions. They love "right-to-work."

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Look you can get into the arguments about this, and I am no stranger to it myself, but the answer is simple. There is no solution.

 

Humans are a species that are innately born to not be governed, but yet we cannot exist without it.

 

We are animals after all and for all our arrogance we think we are better because we walk on two legs, and have thumbs. Lions are not governed, they don't understand the concept so they don't bother with it. WE don't really understand it either but we toil with something that goes against our very nature. Take segregation, we are the only animal species that does not segregate. Tribalism is all over the animal kingdom. Not saying we should, but I am saying not doing so goes against our very nature, so we are always going to fight in politics because millions of years evolution has taught us our side is right, and good, and the other side is evil and will hurt us because we don't share common goals.

 

AS an example, take Blots. He is the most leftist dude on this board, and he is all about inclusion except for a few groups, and we know it, he knows it, and there is nothing wrong with that. I do the same, and so does every man or woman here.

 

This whole myth of we can all sit around singing Kumbayah, is just that, a myth. It wont ever happen, it has never happened, nor is it happening now. The closer we can get to accepting this truth the more we can learn to coexist. We will never live in complete harmony as a species, but we can coexist much better than we are for sure.

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I have literally no idea why you'd think libertarians like unions. They love "right-to-work."

 

I think the perfect system would balance the two. Unionized with protections from being fired for "any reason" but also it doesn't take 18 steps to fire a shitty employee, either. I hope one day we can find that resolution, at least in that sector.

 

On the topic as a whole, Liberals and Libertarians don't have that much in common, though. I don't see a scenario where this is even possible

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I'm not saying we're all going to get along and I'm not saying we wouldn't fight about a lot of shit still. I do think that if we ever wanted to put a stop to endless war that a coalition of liberals and libertarians is probably the only thing that can stop it

 

As for blots, if libertarians don't like Unions it should be relatively easy to explain how they fit with their own ideology.

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I think the perfect system would balance the two. Unionized with protections from being fired for "any reason" but also it doesn't take 18 steps to fire a shitty employee, either. I hope one day we can find that resolution, at least in that sector.

 

On the topic as a whole, Liberals and Libertarians don't have that much in common, though. I don't see a scenario where this is even possible

Just thought about something, maybe you could vote to kick somebody out of the union if they suck. Give them a chance to turn it around and if not they're out. It's kind of peers holding each other accountable vs. a dictatorial atmosphere of employment that we have. I think if workers had a voice a lot of things would be run a lot better. How can a CEO or some other officer within the company fully understand what's happening at a shipping center. The corporate model is so inflexible, robotic and ultimately unrealistic.

 

I think it would be prudent to apply the principals of speration of power and checks and balances into the work place. I think it's the best way to preserve capitalism and a system meritocracy. I think you can spread the wealth a lot better without taking the dream of being rich and successful.

Edited by seanbrock

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Im not a huge fan of unions personally. Ngata and I discussed this before and he brought up some good points.

 

As long as you arent forcing people to be in them, go crazy.

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Im not a huge fan of unions personally. Ngata and I discussed this before and he brought up some good points.

As long as you arent forcing people to be in them, go crazy.

How do we support them? I don't think small businesses should have to have a union for their workers but how do you stop people like Walmart that try crush them? Why shouldn't grocery store workers or fast food employees be able to have a union? I don't see where that happens without some sort of regulation or legislation. I'm also not all knowing either. I'm curious as to what some of your ideas are

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