Suh fined $20,000 for hit on Dalton

[Sarge+ 3,436]

At least Young still had the ball. Not that that makes Harrison's clean, but the fact that Dalton had already released the ball makes Suh's worse, IMO...

[DonovanMcnabb for H.O.F 2,241]

At least Young still had the ball. Not that that makes Harrison's clean, but the fact that Dalton had already released the ball makes Suh's worse, IMO...

 

But 15k worse? really?

[Sarge+ 3,436]

Dalton's helmet came off, too.

[Turry 755]

As soon as you touch a QB's head your going to get a flag pretty simple. 20k is a little much but still what Suh did in todays game is a no no. I will say this though If harrison got fined for that bullshit hit on brees Suh deserves to be fined for that.

Edited August 18, 2011 by monstersofthemidway

[funnygunny 521]

doesn't seem nearly as bad as other tackles (such as Harrison's) and definitely doesn't deserve a 20k fine IMO.

[Sarge+ 3,436]

Watch the Harrison video again. It's not just Harrison slamming Vince, in reality... it's half our D. McClain's is pretty bad, though.

 

If I had to rank them in seriousness:

 

1. Suh

2. McClain

3. Harrison

[DonovanMcnabb for H.O.F 2,241]

Dalton's helmet came off, too.

There is no rule in the NFL saying you can't tackle a player with his helmet off, and there is no rule that saying that a player should be fined, or penalised for a player's helmet popping off as a result of the hit unless if the hit itself was illegal. It was not a body slam so techinically the move was legal. Dalton's helmet came off as he was getting tackled, Suh didn't even grab his helmet or his head. And his helmet popping off was not something that Suh could control. So why fine him extra for it?

 

"Hey Suh, next time watch how you tackle QBs, because if while your in the process of tackling him, his helmet pops off, even if your hit is legal and you didn't pop it off intentionally, or with your hands, were still gonna fine you 15k more then a normal NFL 'illegal' take down."

 

There is no sense to it, He took him down by the shoulder pads.

[Sarge+ 3,436]

Again though, the argument isn't whether the rules are right or wrong. I agree that players are a BIT too protected these days, and that the NFL goes apeshit over some pretty non-harmful hits. However, Suh(and Harrison, McClain, etc...) should know this as well and play within the set rules. They will be fined when they don't. That much has been made crystal clear.

[BC 331]

It's called playing through the whistle. Something that all defensive players are taught to do. He got him by the pads and he pulled him to the ground not being aware that the ball had already been released, and plus the refs hadn't blown the whistle until Suh was in the process of bring him down.

 

Play through the whistle? Yes. Force a quarterback onto his back a full two seconds after the ball is out? That's a completely different issue. My dude, it does not matter if its knocking the fuck out of him, body slamming him, or just pulling him down semi-easily like Suh did in this case. Obviously the extremity will have an influence on the $ amount of the fine, but when the quarterback no longer has the football, you now have to leave him alone(there is of course a half a second or so of leeway. Every defensive lineman is well aware of this by now. I don't think that there is any debate that the ball was out well before the final struggle to the ground.

[funnygunny 521]

there is no debate about that. the debate would be whether or not Suh realised the ball was out, which by the look of things he didn't.

[FSUViking 184]

The argument is whether or not he broke the rule to begin with, how it was enforced and how the league reacted. Not if it fucking exists and whether I like it or not. In my opinion he didn't break the rules and saying he is dirty is beyond ridiculous.

 

Well I guess the NFL didn't ask your opinion on the matter then, did they?

 

Some of you guys clearly don't get it. He wasn't fined $20,000 for THIS HIT. He was fined because under the rules, each hit and subsequent fine goes UP. And this was his third time in less than a year. So stop fucking comparing it to Harrison and his hit(s) and fine(s). It's apples and oranges.

[DonovanMcnabb for H.O.F 2,241]

Play through the whistle? Yes. Force a quarterback onto his back a full two seconds after the ball is out? That's a completely different issue. My dude, it does not matter if its knocking the fuck out of him, body slamming him, or just pulling him down semi-easily like Suh did in this case. Obviously the extremity will have an influence on the $ amount of the fine, but when the quarterback no longer has the football, you now have to leave him alone(there is of course a half a second or so of leeway. Every defensive lineman is well aware of this by now. I don't think that there is any debate that the ball was out well before the final struggle to the ground.

 

When Suh put his hands around the ball carrier the ball was in the process of being released. So therefor when Suh was in the process of taking him down, how in the hell is he supposed to know whether or not the ball is still in his hands or not?

 

So he shoulda slowed down even though when he made contact with the QB the ball was still in his hands? Fuck that. If you don't know whether or not the ball was int he ball carrier's hands when you take him down, you take him down all the way. It's something that EVERY football player has been taught. And let's not pretend as if there was a whistle blown, by all accounts no one was sure when the whistle was blown.

 

The flag was well deserved because it was technically a late hit... . But the fine has no merit. It wasn't a body slam, he didn't hit, yank, or do anything to the QB's head, the helmet popped off as a result of the motion of him being taken to the ground...

 

So what's the fine for? A late, clean hit by the rules?

[әightninә. 39]

I'm late to the party, but there's no fucking way on God's green earth that this hit deserves a $20,000 fine. First of all, it was a perfectly clean hit, play to the whistle play, as the previous posts by DMac4HOF have said. There's no way he could have prevented the helmet coming off, and you can't stop a 307 pound wrecking ball going his hardest in a second. It's not like Jim Schwartz is a coach that will tell his players "oh yeah, be careful".

 

 

If this hit didn't get a fine, Suh's doesn't deserve one:

 

[Turry 755]

No way eightnine. That hit does not deserve a fine and IMO did not deserve a flag that was called. It was a legal hit.

Edited August 18, 2011 by monstersofthemidway

[BucD+ 648]

Well I guess the NFL didn't ask your opinion on the matter then, did they?

 

Some of you guys clearly don't get it. He wasn't fined $20,000 for THIS HIT. He was fined because under the rules, each hit and subsequent fine goes UP. And this was his third time in less than a year. So stop fucking comparing it to Harrison and his hit(s) and fine(s). It's apples and oranges.

 

...

[Favre4Ever+ 4,476]

I'm late to the party, but there's no fucking way on God's green earth that this hit deserves a $20,000 fine. First of all, it was a perfectly clean hit, play to the whistle play, as the previous posts by DMac4HOF have said. There's no way he could have prevented the helmet coming off, and you can't stop a 307 pound wrecking ball going his hardest in a second. It's not like Jim Schwartz is a coach that will tell his players "oh yeah, be careful".

 

 

If this hit didn't get a fine, Suh's doesn't deserve one:

 

 

If Suh was just hitting him, I would absolutely agree with the "momentum" thing... but that just isn't the case here.

[Krawnka 282]

Keep the penalties on the field, fines just glorify the hits, if they're repeat offenders, the coaches/owners should be the ones tasked to deal with them.

 

If it's an outright blatant violation, then refs can eject them from the game, and let the owners and coaches discipline their own players.

 

Stop fining the players, fine the owners... it's their job to keep their players in check.

[Travis425 9]

Here's the rule...

 

Digest of Rules Main

Protection of Passer

 

By interpretation, a pass begins when the passer -- with possession of ball -- starts to bring his hand forward. If ball strikes ground after this action has begun, play is ruled an incomplete pass. If passer loses control of ball prior to his bringing his hand forward, play is ruled a fumble.

When a passer is holding the ball to pass it forward, any intentional movement forward of his arm starts a forward pass. If a defensive player contacts the passer or the ball after forward movement begins, and the ball leaves the passer’s hand, a forward pass is ruled, regardless of where the ball strikes the ground or a player.

No defensive player may run into a passer of a legal forward pass after the ball has left his hand (15 yards). The Referee must determine whether opponent had a reasonable chance to stop his momentum during an attempt to block the pass or tackle the passer while he still had the ball.

No defensive player who has an unrestricted path to the quarterback may hit him flagrantly in the area of the knee(s) or below when approaching in any direction.

Officials are to blow the play dead as soon as the quarterback is clearly in the grasp and control of any tackler, and his safety is in jeopardy.

 

 

So who doesn't understand the rules? Me or the NFL? The whistles don't start chirping until they are on the way to the ground. The hit was legal according to the rules of the NFL. The only one that violated the protection of the QB rule was the ref and it cost Suh 20 grand.

[әightninә. 39]

No way eightnine. That hit does not deserve a fine and IMO did not deserve a flag that was called. It was a legal hit.

Dude. He lead with his fucking head, first off. Second of all, it has helmet-to-helmet. Third of all, he was still considered defenseless. And finally, it was a week after Goodell stated that harder fines are going to be thrown down for aggressive hits, like that one. So please, fucking explain how he doesn't deserve a fine, or a flag.

 

If Suh was just hitting him, I would absolutely agree with the "momentum" thing... but that just isn't the case here.

 

The whistle didn't go until the big fella was already on the way down, and he had no idea the ball was released.

[Turry 755]

Dude. He lead with his fucking head, first off. Second of all, it has helmet-to-helmet. Third of all, he was still considered defenseless. And finally, it was a week after Goodell stated that harder fines are going to be thrown down for aggressive hits, like that one. So please, fucking explain how he doesn't deserve a fine, or a flag.

 

 

 

The whistle didn't go until the big fella was already on the way down, and he had no idea the ball was released.

 

Um no he did not lead with head his at all, and it sure did not seem like it was defenseless but if the refs say it was than it must be right Only thing it was, was helmet to helmet. Sometimes helmet to helmet hits happen without a defender leading with his head. Football is a collision sport and sometime hits like these happens. You want to see a defender leading with his head youtube Merriweather hit on Todd Heap.

Edited August 18, 2011 by monstersofthemidway

[Phins4life 271]

I think the whole thing would have been a non-issue if Suh hadn't brought his hands so high for the tackle. From my comfortable seat at home, it looks like he had time to adjust for a lower hit, at least below the armpits. But I wasn't lined up and I didn't see what he saw or deal with a lineman in my face. But the rules are the rules, and the commish warned this was coming. Nowadays, when you tackle a QB that high, Goodell and the zebras are going to react pretty swiftly, not likely in a way that will make the tackler happy.

[DonovanMcnabb for H.O.F 2,241]

I think the whole thing would have been a non-issue if Suh hadn't brought his hands so high for the tackle. From my comfortable seat at home, it looks like he had time to adjust for a lower hit, at least below the armpits. But I wasn't lined up and I didn't see what he saw or deal with a lineman in my face. But the rules are the rules, and the commish warned this was coming. Nowadays, when you tackle a QB that high, Goodell and the zebras are going to react pretty swiftly, not likely in a way that will make the tackler happy.

 

That's really my only problem with Suh and some of his sacks, not that he's too aggressive, I hope he keeps playing with that same aggressiveness and even one-ups this. It's that he always hits players on that high chest, shoulder pads area... Which although aren't against the rules, or cheap/dirty, but they lead to a lot of false judgement calls by the refs.

 

I still think that the NFL went overboard with fining Suh for a tackle that at hindsight looks illegal but is clean when you actually break it down.

[әightninә. 39]

Um no he did not lead with head his at all, and it sure did not seem like it was defenseless but if the refs say it was than it must be right Only thing it was, was helmet to helmet. Sometimes helmet to helmet hits happen without a defender leading with his head. Football is a collision sport and sometime hits like these happens. You want to see a defender leading with his head youtube Merriweather hit on Todd Heap.

Uh, what? Pause at 1:23, and tell me he didn't lead with his head. And the rule is, three steps= he becomes a runner. A runner is defenseless during the two steps prior to which.

[Turry 755]

Uh, what? Pause at 1:23, and tell me he didn't lead with his head. And the rule is, three steps= he becomes a runner. A runner is defenseless during the two steps prior to which.

 

I've seen this clip many times and no it does not look like he intentionally lead with his head, and the rule is if the Wideout who catches the pass has enough time to protect himself.

[CARDINAL 205]

Very late hit? Let's see...

 

 

And this pic was taken as he was already in the process of bringing him down, which means when he started hitting him the ball had not fully left his hand yet. Suh had ahold of Dalton, who had the ball. Dalton stood tall, threw the ball into the dirt, then got taken down. It's a borderline roughing the passer, but a fine? really?

 

This proves everything that Dmac is saying. Suh is a very good player, one of my favourite players, and anybody who thinks that it was a dirty hit should just FUCK OFF, IMO! Andy Dalton FAIL!!! He is a little pussy who doesn't want to be sacked, I hope that can of whoop ass that Suh gave him for lunch changes his fuckin attitude.