CJ says he's not to blame for poor rushing attack

[Guest MikeyDay]

For the record, I agree with Cuda. There is a difference between being a grammar nazi and calling someone on every little error, and simply wanting people to make posts that don't use "internet slang" every third word. Can I read it? Yes. Does it make me want to claw my eyes out doing so? Hell yes.

 

Then claw ur fucking eyes out.

[Zack_of_Steel+ 3,014]

Not when its this bad, AP couldnt do shit behind this oline. Nobody could. If yall cant get that thru ur head im sorry u cant handle truth. *Shrugs* theres a first time for everything and the worst run blocking oline in forever is happening. CJ isnt 100% either i get that but Ringer hasnt faired any better. Elite players dont just go from unstoppable to complete 2.9 a carry. No one goes out that fast. Next year when he is doing better after we fix this fucking line, i want CJ sigs on anyone who said he was done.

 

That's right, they don't. Chris Johnson isn't an elite back. He had an elite line when he was ripping shit up, but now he doesn't. Elite backs are the backs like Jamaal Charles, Maurice Jones-Drew, Adrian Peterson, Matt Forte, and Steven Jackson who all play at an elite level behind abysmal run blocking and have been doing it for years.

 

Chris Johnson is just the second coming of Willie Parker. Parker looked like one of the best backs in the league when he was running behind a great OL and Dan Kreider. After Jeff Hartings retired, Kendall Simmons got diabetes, Alan Faneca and Dan Kreider left, and Marvel Smith had a bunch of back injuries, Parker's play went to shit. Coincidence?

[.AirMcNair. 1,232]

That's right, they don't. Chris Johnson isn't an elite back. He had an elite line when he was ripping shit up, but now he doesn't. Elite backs are the backs like Jamaal Charles, Maurice Jones-Drew, Adrian Peterson, Matt Forte, and Steven Jackson who all play at an elite level behind abysmal run blocking and have been doing it for years.

 

Chris Johnson is just the second coming of Willie Parker. Parker looked like one of the best backs in the league when he was running behind a great OL and Dan Kreider. After Jeff Hartings retired, Kendall Simmons got diabetes, Alan Faneca and Dan Kreider left, and Marvel Smith had a bunch of back injuries, Parker's play went to shit. Coincidence?

 

The line wasn't elite in 09 or 10. Average in 09 and bottom 5 in the league last year. That's what makes that argument null and void.

[Thanatos 2,847]

It cannot possibly be a coincidence that the only people saying CJ is not at fault here, are all Titans fans. They just paid the guy a truckload of money, and now he's whining that he can't do anything with this shitty line.

 

If you want to be paid like a playmaker, then play like a playmaker. CJ wasn't content with being one of the highest-paid RBs, but he had to be one of the highest paid players ever, (pretty sure this was mentioned before). You invite yourself to be criticized if you don't perform at a high level after that type of pay-day. It looks to me like he got his money and now he's done.

 

The line wasn't elite in 09 or 10. Average in 09 and bottom 5 in the league last year. That's what makes that argument null and void.

 

They were 17th in YPG in 2010, not bottom 5. They were #2 in the league in 2009. Based on what facts do you say they were actually bottom 5 in 2010 and average in '09?

 

You cannot say that in 09 and '10 it was all on CJ and that's why the Titans ran well in those two years despite their O-line, and then turn around and say it's all on the O-line in 2011. You cannot have your cake and eat it too. If CJ gets the credit for 09-10, he also takes the blame for '11.

Edited October 27, 2011 by Thanatos19

[.AirMcNair. 1,232]

They were 17th in YPG in 2010, not bottom 5. They were #2 in the league in 2009. Based on what facts do you say they were actually bottom 5 in 2010 and average in '09?

 

You cannot say that in 09 and '10 it was all on CJ and that's why the Titans ran well in those two years despite their O-line, and then turn around and say it's all on the O-line in 2011. You cannot have your cake and eat it too. If CJ gets the credit for 09-10, he also takes the blame for '11.

So ypg = your offensive line is good? Must mean the Vikings line is good, since they're top 3 in YPG so far this year and were 10th last year. But no, Adrian Peterson is the only reason, right? But that can't possibly be the case for Chris Johnson. No, because his name isn't Adrian Peterson.

 

What facts do you base the Vikings line being bad on? It's simple, by watching the games and seeing how much the back has to do. Exactly like Adrian Peterson, CJ had to carry the running game in 2010, and while it wasn't bad in 09, it wasn't great like everyone seems to believe.

 

What's wrong this year? It's a the line being easily the worst I've ever seen at run blocking and CJ's conditioning troubles the first 4-5 weeks. However, like I've said before, he's shown when lining up at WR this year he's got all the explosiveness he had the 3 years prior to this. It's just this line is so bad.

 

Just like I told Favre4Ever, I'm not going to sit here and argue back and forth "no our line is that bad" and "no it isn't" with you, because it's pointless. You're not going to believe me, because you believe I'm just some biased fan. I'll offer you the same as I did him, and that's the ability to watch every single Titans game so far this year and let you determine it yourself. But again, I'm not gonna sit and argue about it, because you'll refuse to believe me.

[Thanatos 2,847]

So ypg = your offensive line is good? Must mean the Vikings line is good, since they're top 3 in YPG so far this year and were 10th last year. But no, Adrian Peterson is the only reason, right? But that can't possibly be the case for Chris Johnson. No, because his name isn't Adrian Peterson.

 

What facts do you base the Vikings line being bad on? It's simple, by watching the games and seeing how much the back has to do. Exactly like Adrian Peterson, CJ had to carry the running game in 2010, and while it wasn't bad in 09, it wasn't great like everyone seems to believe.

 

What's wrong this year? It's a the line being easily the worst I've ever seen at run blocking and CJ's conditioning troubles the first 4-5 weeks. However, like I've said before, he's shown when lining up at WR this year he's got all the explosiveness he had the 3 years prior to this. It's just this line is so bad.

 

Just like I told Favre4Ever, I'm not going to sit here and argue back and forth "no our line is that bad" and "no it isn't" with you, because it's pointless. You're not going to believe me, because you believe I'm just some biased fan. I'll offer you the same as I did him, and that's the ability to watch every single Titans game so far this year and let you determine it yourself. But again, I'm not gonna sit and argue about it, because you'll refuse to believe me.

 

You cannot make the argument that the Titans line is bad because they lack YPG and then turn around and say the Vikings line is good because they have a lot of YPG- that is what Mikey was arguing.

 

I believe that you are biased because you are a fan of the Titans, and so far not a single non-Titan fan has come forward to say that CJ's performance is based solely off the play of the O-line.

 

I'm not arguing that CJ doesn't have explosiveness. I'm arguing that he is a niche back that can only run when he has good run-blocking, something that Matt Forte, Adrian Peterson, and Steven Jackson have all shown they can do.

 

Basically the argument is this:

Good run-blocking= great rushing numbers from Forte, AP, S-Jack, and CJ2K.

Bad run-blocking= still good rushing numbers from Forte, AP and S-Jack, but bad rushing numbers from CJ.

 

He can't run well without great run-blocking. Something a truly elite running-back can get around. Maybe not as good as if they had great run-blocking, but they can still pose a threat to teams, and still put up yards by breaking tackles. CJ can't do that, and that's why CJ is not a top-5, or even top-10 RB in the NFL.

Edited October 27, 2011 by Thanatos19

[oochymp 2,393]

one point that I think needs to be made (and I'm not sure why it hasn't) is that there is only one different player on the oline from the 2009 season (when CJ ran for 2k yards) Amano moved to center from Left Guard replacing Kevin Mawae and Leroy Harris has moved into his place. While it's certainly a downgrade, you can't say that the oline was astronomically better two years ago even though our running game was undoubtedly astronomically better, can you really argue that Mawae meant that much to our oline that it can't function with the current group which is otherwise the same as what was regarded as the best in the league two years ago?

[Zack_of_Steel+ 3,014]

Basically the argument is this:

Good run-blocking= great rushing numbers from Forte, AP, S-Jack, and CJ2K.

Bad run-blocking= still good rushing numbers from Forte, AP and S-Jack, but bad rushing numbers from CJ.

 

He can't run well without great run-blocking. Something a truly elite running-back can get around. Maybe not as good as if they had great run-blocking, but they can still pose a threat to teams, and still put up yards by breaking tackles. CJ can't do that, and that's why CJ is not a top-5, or even top-10 RB in the NFL.

 

This.

 

 

Also, watch this highlight video from 2009 and try and tell me the blocking wasn't superb on all of his giant runs. That line MAULED people until the last couple years, leaving Johnson to sprint up field and make a few people miss in the open field, something that MANY other backs in the league could do in the same position.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Isn4uslb5U&feature=related

[Zack_of_Steel+ 3,014]

one point that I think needs to be made (and I'm not sure why it hasn't) is that there is only one different player on the oline from the 2009 season (when CJ ran for 2k yards) Amano moved to center from Left Guard replacing Kevin Mawae and Leroy Harris has moved into his place. While it's certainly a downgrade, you can't say that the oline was astronomically better two years ago even though our running game was undoubtedly astronomically better, can you really argue that Mawae meant that much to our oline that it can't function with the current group which is otherwise the same as what was regarded as the best in the league two years ago?

 

Yes. Look at the state of the Steelers' offensive line after Jeff Hartings retired. They still had Faneca, Marvel Smith pre-injury, Kendall Simmons pre-diabetes, and the same young Max Starks. They replaced Hartings with Sean Mahan and the line turned to complete and utter SHIT.

[.AirMcNair. 1,232]

You cannot make the argument that the Titans line is bad because they lack YPG and then turn around and say the Vikings line is good because they have a lot of YPG- that is what Mikey was arguing.

 

I wasn't. I was saying that using YPG to try and determine if a line is good or bad is absolutely retarded. The Vikings line is bad, regardless of what their YPG shows..anyone who would argue different needs to have their head examined.

 

I believe that you are biased because you are a fan of the Titans, and so far not a single non-Titan fan has come forward to say that CJ's performance is based solely off the play of the O-line.

 

Because there isn't a single non-Titan fan who has watched each Titan game. They just look at CJ's stats and assume that everything is his fault and he sucks.

 

I'm not arguing that CJ doesn't have explosiveness. I'm arguing that he is a niche back that can only run when he has good run-blocking, something that Matt Forte, Adrian Peterson, and Steven Jackson have all shown they can do.

 

Again, that argument was proven wrong in both 09 and 10..he didn't have good run blocking in either season.

 

Basically the argument is this:

Good run-blocking= great rushing numbers from Forte, AP, S-Jack, and CJ2K.

Bad run-blocking= still good rushing numbers from Forte, AP and S-Jack, but bad rushing numbers from CJ.

 

He can't run well without great run-blocking. Something a truly elite running-back can get around. Maybe not as good as if they had great run-blocking, but they can still pose a threat to teams, and still put up yards by breaking tackles. CJ can't do that, and that's why CJ is not a top-5, or even top-10 RB in the NFL.

 

Yet again, your argument is proven null and void by watching both the 09 and 10 season, where he didn't have good run blocking in either year.

 

But as I've said, no real point in arguing..really only wanted to respond to this for the "YPG" thing, but figured if I would have left the rest responded to, everyone would be all "LOL PROVEN WRONG"

[Zack_of_Steel+ 3,014]

Again, that argument was proven wrong in both 09 and 10..he didn't have good run blocking in either season.

 

 

 

Yet again, your argument is proven null and void by watching both the 09 and 10 season, where he didn't have good run blocking in either year.

 

But as I've said, no real point in arguing..really only wanted to respond to this for the "YPG" thing, but figured if I would have left the rest responded to, everyone would be all "LOL PROVEN WRONG"

 

LOL PROVEN WRONG. I posted a video of highlights from 2009 clearly showing the amazing blocking he received when he got his yards. Where's your proof outside of saying "dur i wached da gamez n u guise didnt baleev me da lien was bad."

[Thanatos 2,847]

The Vikings line is bad, regardless of what their YPG shows..anyone who would argue different needs to have their head examined.

If the Vikes O-line isn't good, yet AP still rushes for a ton more yards than CJ... I fail to see what your point is, unless you're saying AP is an elite RB and CJ is not, in which case I agree with you.

 

Again, that argument was proven wrong in both 09 and 10..he didn't have good run blocking in either season.

 

Yet again, your argument is proven null and void by watching both the 09 and 10 season, where he didn't have good run blocking in either year.

 

This is just bullshit.

 

The Titans had one of the best lines in the league in 2009, and yes I did watch several of their games in '09.

 

As far as me not watching the Titans games in 2011, let me put that to rest: I have seen at least 3/4 of 4 of their 6 games, more than enough to form an educated opinion.

Edited October 27, 2011 by Thanatos19

[Guest MikeyDay]

AirMcnair theres no point bro, cant do nothing to ones opinion when they set it. However, sonce muthafuckss on here wanna get smart ima say this Thanatos, if i were to put it in a way YOU WOULD understand , if this was in person u wouldnt of made such a remark on my rep bcuz i woulda punched u in the fucking face before ud get smart. Along with half the other pussies who talk tough on here. U start it i finish it. Zack and me are no diff. We say wut the fuck we want and dont take shit, dont like it? Fuck urself. Any mod who feels they needa stop this thread bcuz im sayin this go head. Itd be a first some of yall did ur fucking job.

 

But u sit there and make a argument on something u JUST TOLD ME is a bad statement. The YPG and rankings on oline, its a bad argument dor CJ but its ok for AP? Fuck outta my face. Be glad this is online. Cuz besides Zack, Air, Blue and maybe Farve would still say wtf they want in person. None yall would point blank. Yall wouldnt step up period. Yall gettin just as bad as Bangy. Using the internet to get slick mouthed and say stupid shit. Solution simple, dont like wut i have to say? Block me. Dont like the way i write ? Could give a fuck on u and ur mothers problems. Block me. Simple. Anybody wanna come see me bout some bidness ask bucs for my ip address come find my address and ill buzz u in on a appointment. Fuck the internet bullshit. But course yall ain gunna do that lol. Course.

[Guest MikeyDay]

LOL PROVEN WRONG. I posted a video of highlights from 2009 clearly showing the amazing blocking he received when he got his yards. Where's your proof outside of saying "dur i wached da gamez n u guise didnt baleev me da lien was bad."

 

Hes not Willie Parker though. Parker did benefit from good blocking but i can recall u defending him on being a good back in his second year..

[Thanatos 2,847]

AirMcnair theres no point bro, cant do nothing to ones opinion when they set it. However, sonce muthafuckss on here wanna get smart ima say this Thanatos, if i were to put it in a way YOU WOULD understand , if this was in person u wouldnt of made such a remark on my rep bcuz i woulda punched u in the fucking face before ud get smart. Along with half the other pussies who talk tough on here. U start it i finish it. Zack and me are no diff. We say wut the fuck we want and dont take shit, dont like it? Fuck urself. Any mod who feels they needa stop this thread bcuz im sayin this go head. Itd be a first some of yall did ur fucking job.

 

But u sit there and make a argument on something u JUST TOLD ME is a bad statement. The YPG and rankings on oline, its a bad argument dor CJ but its ok for AP? Fuck outta my face. Be glad this is online. Cuz besides Zack, Air, Blue and maybe Farve would still say wtf they want in person. None yall would point blank. Yall wouldnt step up period. Yall gettin just as bad as Bangy. Using the internet to get slick mouthed and say stupid shit. Solution simple, dont like wut i have to say? Block me. Dont like the way i write ? Could give a fuck on u and ur mothers problems. Block me. Simple. Anybody wanna come see me bout some bidness ask bucs for my ip address come find my address and ill buzz u in on a appointment. Fuck the internet bullshit. But course yall ain gunna do that lol. Course.

 

Oooh. Internet tough guy. Obviously if you can beat the shit out of someone, that makes what they say completely null and void. I have no doubt that you can take me in a fight, considering that I'm unable to really do much of anything physical since I have a bulging disc in my lower back.

Edited October 27, 2011 by Thanatos19

[Zack_of_Steel+ 3,014]

Hes not Willie Parker though. Parker did benefit from good blocking but i can recall u defending him on being a good back in his second year..

 

I defended Parker by saying he was pretty good to be leading the league in rushing in 2007 until he broke his leg on December 20th against the Rams despite running behind the sorry ass offensive line we had fielded. Something that can not be said about Chris Johnson.

[BLUE 1,026]

Let's cut the fucking tough guy talk before I have to take action. People like Zack and .AirMcNair will strongly debate without having to go there. And I won't close or delete the thread, I'll just delete whoever is making physical threats, from it.

[SteVo+ 3,702]

AirMcnair theres no point bro, cant do nothing to ones opinion when they set it. However, sonce muthafuckss on here wanna get smart ima say this Thanatos, if i were to put it in a way YOU WOULD understand , if this was in person u wouldnt of made such a remark on my rep bcuz i woulda punched u in the fucking face before ud get smart. Along with half the other pussies who talk tough on here. U start it i finish it. Zack and me are no diff. We say wut the fuck we want and dont take shit, dont like it? Fuck urself. Any mod who feels they needa stop this thread bcuz im sayin this go head. Itd be a first some of yall did ur fucking job.

 

Holy crap, multiple personal insults and staff bashing in the same post? C'MON MAN. Mikey, your Chris Johnson homerism has always been evident but now it's gotten you steamed up to the point where you're just embarrassing yourself.

[.AirMcNair. 1,232]

This.

 

 

Also, watch this highlight video from 2009 and try and tell me the blocking wasn't superb on all of his giant runs. That line MAULED people until the last couple years, leaving Johnson to sprint up field and make a few people miss in the open field, something that MANY other backs in the league could do in the same position.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Isn4uslb5U&feature=related

 

Highlight #1 - CJ had to make that play by redirecting the run..that wasn't the offensive line.

Highlight #2 - Good blocking here.

Highlight #3 - This isn't a run, but I just wanna say...LOL TEXANS

Highlight #4 - Blocking was okay, but required CJ being smart enough and agile enough to break that one.

Highlight #5 - Good hole by the o-line on that one.

Highlight #6 - CJ made that play himself.

Highlight #7 - Blocking was pretty meh here. CJ had to escape on that one.

Highlight #8 - Doesn't show the blocking here, but it was solid on that play. CJ made a couple of arm tacklers miss, but overall a good job by everyone on the play.

Highlight #9 - Screen pass, no blocking downfield from o-line, so no real comment here.

Highlight #10 - Meh blocking once again, CJ had to break 2 tackles to break that run.

Highlight #11 - Just a goal line dive, nothing special.

Highlight #12 - He had to make this play, offensive line completely failed.

Highlight #13 - Blocking was fine by the o-line, the 49ers secondary did an excellent job of running to the ball.

Highlight #14 - Solid blocking, though the defense was fooled on the play.

Highlight #15 - CJ had to make this play himself, but not because the blocking was terrible. The Bills just did a great job of sniffing out the play. But this goes to show how good CJ is at making things happen out of nothing.

Highlight #16 - Blocking downfield by the receivers/TEs was good, can't really comment on the o-line here.

Highlight #17 - Very good blocking.

Highlight #18 - No real blocking to comment on on this play either, just a good fake by VY and the option fooled the Bills

Highlight #19 - Good blocking here opened the hole for CJ.

Highlight #20 - Another "option fooled them" play.

Highlight #21 - Bad blocking and CJ made the play here. Knocked away 2 defenders to get in to the endzone.

Highlight #22 - Screen pass, CJ had to make 2 people miss to get the first down.

Highlight #23 - Bad blocking, but one of my favorite CJ highlights ever, as he makes 2 people miss right away as he gets the ball, then makes a 3rd miss to run ahead for the first down.

Highlight #24 - The blocking from the line was decent on this play, but CJ makes one hell of a play, breaking away from 2 defenders then making a 3rd look absolutely stupid trying to tackle him.

Highlight #25 - Blocking is decent enough and CJ weaves through a little bit of traffic to break it open.

Highlight #26 - The blocking isn't too bad on this play, but CJ was the reason this was a touchdown, using his speed to get to the outside and using his elusiveness and vision downfield.

Highlight #27 - Screen pass, but CJ has to make several people miss to get to the endzone.

Highlight #28 - Blocking is bad here(outside of one from Collins at the end, lmao), but CJ makes people miss and turns it in to a big play none the less.

Highlight #29 - Blocking was meh here, they didn't get pushed back, but certainly didn't push forward at all either. CJ had to dive to get in.

Highlight #30 - Not really Amano's/Mawae's fault, but CJ was too fast and Amano/Mawae couldn't get the blocks to turn it in to a TD.

Highlight #31 - Nothing special here, no down field blocking but decent play by CJ.

Highlight #32 - Blocking was bad here, but CJ made a great play.

Highlight #33 - CJ had to make 2 miss, but the blocking was solid here.

Highlight #34 - Blocking was pretty meh. 4 people "met" CJ at the goal line but he just dived in between them for the TD.

Highlight #35 - The blocking was fantastic here. Too bad this was called back by a questionable holding call on Hall, otherwise CJ might have the record for must running yards in a season.

Highlight #36 - The line did fine here, CJ did what he was supposed to and took it to the outside.

Highlight #37 - Screen pass with no real involvement from the o-line.

Highlight #38 - Ah, the run where CJ broke 2,000. It figures that this run would show the offensive line as it mostly was that year - average. Getting no real push, but not getting pushed back, either.

 

If you're going to use a video to try and support your claim, you may actually want to watch it yourself.

[Zack_of_Steel+ 3,014]

Your definition of good line play is ridiculous. Getting to your man and "not getting pushed back" is exceptional. Pancaking someone or riding them all the way out of bounds is amazing. Getting pushed back, not hitting every assignment, and forcing the RB to redirect or find the hole is average for an offensive line. It's when they get thrown out of the way and the RB has nothing but a pile of bodies to run into that one can definitively say that the blocking was bad. That is not at all what happens in that highlight video.

[Thanatos 2,847]

If you're going to use a video to try and support your claim, you may actually want to watch it yourself.

 

Let's grant your argument for the sake of argument.

 

If the O-line was bad in '09 and '10, and yet CJ ran very well, why is he not running well in 2011?

Edited October 27, 2011 by Thanatos19

[Jayrus 51]

I'm just going on record here to point out a huge logical fallacy I'm seeing from the Titans fans.

 

The last couple years Chris Johnson has been awesome despite, as you claim, bad run blocking. If nothing has changed and you have essentially the same offensive line and the same bad run blocking this year, then WHY isn't the "Awesome" Chris Johnson putting up the same numbers he was before? Or even Close to it?

 

If the run-blocking hasn't changed then logically the only other factor can be the running back :IE, Chris Johnson. So we must ask ourselves why he isn't producing like he was despite havign the same line on the same team as the last two years. I gave my hypothesis in my last post so i'll leave you all to decide the answer for yourselves.

[.AirMcNair. 1,232]

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/ol To show how bad the run blocking truly is for the Titans. And backing up my point that it was average or worse in 09, and bad in 2010.

[badgers 380]

I don't think you understand.

 

Mikey Day and AirMcNair have both said that the Titans run blocking was bad in 2009 and 2010, and it's bad now.

 

However. If Chris Johnson can do as well as he did with bad blocking the past two years, WHY DOES HE PLAY LIKE SHIT NOW? Shouldn't he at least do somewhat decent for someone used to playing behind a bad offensive line, as you all suggest?

[.AirMcNair. 1,232]

I don't think you understand.

 

Mikey Day and AirMcNair have both said that the Titans run blocking was bad in 2009 and 2010, and it's bad now.

 

However. If Chris Johnson can do as well as he did with bad blocking the past two years, WHY DOES HE PLAY LIKE SHIT NOW? Shouldn't he at least do somewhat decent for someone used to playing behind a bad offensive line, as you all suggest?

Have you not read, at all? I've said numerous times that this line is the worst I've ever seen. Much worse than last year.