What Issue Do You Struggle Most With?

[Favre4Ever+ 4,476]

Straight forward question.... Which political issue do you most have trouble picking a side on? Simple question... or is it?

 

 

 

For me, it is definitely capital punishment.

 

I definitely agree that there are crimes out there that both deserve and should end in death.

 

However, there are far too many stories out there about crooked cops and investigators either with holding information or planting "evidence" to pin it on a certain person so that they can close the case and provide "justice" to their communities.

 

It honestly makes me shudder, to think there are hundreds of people on death row who could be innocent

[Duck Fallas 209]

Abortion.

 

For the most part, I fully support abortion. Why bring an unwanted child into the world?

 

However, I don't like that the other party when it comes to making a baby has no say in the matter. Why can't a man charge his girlfriend with murder if she decides to abort their child against his wishes? It doesn't seem right that if he objects to the child, he is obligated to pay support for 18 years. But if the woman decides that she doesn't want the baby and the man does, the man has to deal with whatever she chooses.

[Thanatos 2,847]

Abortion.

 

For the most part, I fully support abortion. Why bring an unwanted child into the world?

 

However, I don't like that the other party when it comes to making a baby has no say in the matter. Why can't a man charge his girlfriend with murder if she decides to abort their child against his wishes? It doesn't seem right that if he objects to the child, he is obligated to pay support for 18 years. But if the woman decides that she doesn't want the baby and the man does, the man has to deal with whatever she chooses.

 

Abortion is one issue I am strongly on the conservative side of things.

 

If it is a human being, then I'm pretty sure using that argument, (unwanted child), could equally be used for things that I'm sure we would agree are morally wrong.

 

And I really don't see how its not a human being. The law itself is very vague on this, it seems to be that whatever the intent of the mother is, that is what makes the child a human being or not. I'm with Paul that there is no way I can see that its not a human being. I disagree with him that it should be left up to the states, in my mind, if its a human, then its protected under the Constitution.

 

As for my own hardest issue...

It's probably still gay marriage. I realize that some people may not understand why this is a hard issue for some of us, but the way I was raised made it very difficult for me to even start opening my mind on this one. It took a very dear friend of mine coming out herself to bring it home. All those nasty things my parents were saying were suddenly very personal, since now they were applying those names to her.

 

It's led to a bit of a rift, actually. And election year is just bring it around again, since they're firm Santorum supporters and his stance on gay marriage is one of the reasons, (there are many, he's a nut-case), why I won't vote for him. But it's still a hard issue for me, since for so many years, my knee-jerk reaction was against it.

[Guest Phailadelphia]

Abortion is one issue I am strongly on the conservative side of things.

 

If it is a human being, then I'm pretty sure using that argument, (unwanted child), could equally be used for things that I'm sure we would agree are morally wrong.

 

And I really don't see how its not a human being. The law itself is very vague on this, it seems to be that whatever the intent of the mother is, that is what makes the child a human being or not. I'm with Paul that there is no way I can see that its not a human being. I disagree with him that it should be left up to the states, in my mind, if its a human, then its protected under the Constitution.

 

As for my own hardest issue...

It's probably still gay marriage. I realize that some people may not understand why this is a hard issue for some of us, but the way I was raised made it very difficult for me to even start opening my mind on this one. It took a very dear friend of mine coming out herself to bring it home. All those nasty things my parents were saying were suddenly very personal, since now they were applying those names to her.

 

It's led to a bit of a rift, actually. And election year is just bring it around again, since they're firm Santorum supporters and his stance on gay marriage is one of the reasons, (there are many, he's a nut-case), why I won't vote for him. But it's still a hard issue for me, since for so many years, my knee-jerk reaction was against it.

 

This is precisely the reason I don't discuss politics nor religion with my family.

[Barracuda 629]

Abortion.

 

For the most part, I fully support abortion. Why bring an unwanted child into the world?

 

However, I don't like that the other party when it comes to making a baby has no say in the matter. Why can't a man charge his girlfriend with murder if she decides to abort their child against his wishes? It doesn't seem right that if he objects to the child, he is obligated to pay support for 18 years. But if the woman decides that she doesn't want the baby and the man does, the man has to deal with whatever she chooses.

 

This.

[WindyCitySports 407]

Environmental issues.

 

I have always been in favor of environmental activism because it pains me to see so many of God's greatest creations being bulldozed to make room for buildings. Also, I am very against companies that put chemicals in their products or give off chemicals while making products that harm animals or humans.

 

At the same time, this country needs jobs, and more government regulation on businesses will hurt the average American. Also, I am a libertarian (small 'l') and I am principally against most government regulation.

 

I have been on both sides of the issue and when ever I lean one way ito push myself in the other direction. I think the environment vs business issue is one that many on both sides struggle with.

 

Everything else in pretty clear cut on. Pro-life, free markets, low taxes, pro-gay rights, anti-war unless it is a "Just War." Basically a conservative-libertarian-sometimes Republican.

[Duck Fallas 209]

Abortion is one issue I am strongly on the conservative side of things.

 

If it is a human being, then I'm pretty sure using that argument, (unwanted child), could equally be used for things that I'm sure we would agree are morally wrong.

 

And I really don't see how its not a human being. The law itself is very vague on this, it seems to be that whatever the intent of the mother is, that is what makes the child a human being or not. I'm with Paul that there is no way I can see that its not a human being. I disagree with him that it should be left up to the states, in my mind, if its a human, then its protected under the Constitution.

 

As for my own hardest issue...

It's probably still gay marriage. I realize that some people may not understand why this is a hard issue for some of us, but the way I was raised made it very difficult for me to even start opening my mind on this one. It took a very dear friend of mine coming out herself to bring it home. All those nasty things my parents were saying were suddenly very personal, since now they were applying those names to her.

 

It's led to a bit of a rift, actually. And election year is just bring it around again, since they're firm Santorum supporters and his stance on gay marriage is one of the reasons, (there are many, he's a nut-case), why I won't vote for him. But it's still a hard issue for me, since for so many years, my knee-jerk reaction was against it.

 

See, I don't care if it is a person or not. If it is unwanted, it should not be forced to live in a home that resents its very existence.

 

With Gay marriage; if two people are in love, why can't they be married? I grew up in a VERY religious (though tolerant) household, but never once did any of the adults in my family describe marriage as strictly between a man and a woman. My oldest friend came out of the closet a few years back, who the fuck am I or anyone else to tell him that he can't marry the man he loves? What gives me the fucking right to say his eternal love is any less than the love I felt with my (now ex) wife?

[Shotgun 442]

Gays seem pretty unwanted. Maybe they should be aborted.

 

 

[Duck Fallas 209]

Gays seem pretty unwanted. Maybe they should be aborted.

 

 

...but then we would be denied the pleasure of your knowledge here at TGP...

 

 

[Guest Phailadelphia]

Environmental issues.

 

I have always been in favor of environmental activism because it pains me to see so many of God's greatest creations being bulldozed to make room for buildings. Also, I am very against companies that put chemicals in their products or give off chemicals while making products that harm animals or humans.

 

At the same time, this country needs jobs, and more government regulation on businesses will hurt the average American. Also, I am a libertarian (small 'l') and I am principally against most government regulation.

 

I have been on both sides of the issue and when ever I lean one way ito push myself in the other direction. I think the environment vs business issue is one that many on both sides struggle with.

 

Everything else in pretty clear cut on. Pro-life, free markets, low taxes, pro-gay rights, anti-war unless it is a "Just War." Basically a conservative-libertarian-sometimes Republican.

 

They might hurt businesses but there's a social impact tradeoff there. I don't personally believe businesses should be allowed to operate in a manner that harms neighboring residents (or, if you want to get real technical, violates property rights) just because it means they'll have to cut into their profits in cleaning up the messes they leave behind.

 

And besides, green technology has the capability to create millions of jobs. Literally millions. The sooner the US jumps on the environmental bandwagon the better.

Gays seem pretty unwanted. Maybe they should be aborted.

 

 

 

Oh god this is the troll line of the century.

Edited March 8, 2012 by Phailadelphia

[Thanatos 2,847]

See, I don't care if it is a person or not. If it is unwanted, it should not be forced to live in a home that resents its very existence.

 

If you ask someone who grew up in a home that didn't want them, do you think they would answer that they would rather have never known life at all?

 

I have a friend of mine who his mother attempted to abort him and the procedure failed. The mother and father both didn't want him, and so they put him up for adoption after he was born. I am so glad that is the case, instead of him having never had the chance to see life at all, and so is he. You're making the decision for them, saying that the majority of unwanted babies would rather never see life than come into a world where their parents don't want them. Yes, it hurts, and yes it has a negative impact on those people, but you can get past it. I'm sure my friend's wife is very happy that he got to experience life instead of just being killed before he could even see it.

 

To me, if its a person, then its murder. And so your argument of unwanted could also be stretched to say a child that is actually born that was unwanted, say, the abortion failed, should be knocked off to prevent them growing up in a home that doesn't want them.

[Favre4Ever+ 4,476]

If someone doesn't care if the baby is a person or not, there is literally no boundaries to what you can or cannot do. What if a baby is born with a defect and the parents don't want the child? It's unwanted... So the parents should stop by the nearest bridge and throw the child over on their way home, am I right?

 

Or does it only matter if the baby is a person or not before they leave the woman?

[Shotgun 442]

It's all about selfish perspective as with most things, not logic or morality. You're not a person until you're squeezed out of a vagina. Killing an unwanted newborn is murder, but while it's still in a womb connected to a cord it's not considered a person. At least until it affects a group of people. Then you can pick and choose.

 

 

[Thanatos 2,847]

It's all about selfish perspective as with most things, not logic or morality. You're not a person until you're squeezed out of a vagina. Killing an unwanted newborn is murder, but while it's still in a womb connected to a cord it's not considered a person. At least until it affects a group of people. Then you can pick and choose.

 

Why? It looks like a person, it has the same genes as a person, there's even studies that says it feels pain like a person. Three minutes before it comes out of the womb its not a person? 30 seconds before? 5 seconds before? Why does being in the womb make it a non-person? That argument doesn't work, too many holes.

 

All I'm saying here is that we should err on the side of caution. What happens during an abortion procedure is a horrific practice- I believe watching one is what turned Paul against it. The burden of proof should be on proving its not a person before killing it.

[CARDINAL 205]

Abortion.

 

For the most part, I fully support abortion. Why bring an unwanted child into the world?

 

However, I don't like that the other party when it comes to making a baby has no say in the matter. Why can't a man charge his girlfriend with murder if she decides to abort their child against his wishes? It doesn't seem right that if he objects to the child, he is obligated to pay support for 18 years. But if the woman decides that she doesn't want the baby and the man does, the man has to deal with whatever she chooses.

Duck Fallas, this is a great point that you make. It's basicly institutional discrimination against men by not giving them the ability to do what you said above. :beerchug2: Great Point!!!

Edited March 8, 2012 by Cardingo

[CARDINAL 205]

This is precisely the reason I don't discuss politics nor religion with my family.

 

Do you support or oppose abortion Taylor?

[BwareDWare94 723]

See, I don't care if it is a person or not. If it is unwanted, it should not be forced to live in a home that resents its very existence.

 

With Gay marriage; if two people are in love, why can't they be married? I grew up in a VERY religious (though tolerant) household, but never once did any of the adults in my family describe marriage as strictly between a man and a woman. My oldest friend came out of the closet a few years back, who the fuck am I or anyone else to tell him that he can't marry the man he loves? What gives me the fucking right to say his eternal love is any less than the love I felt with my (now ex) wife?

 

Unwanted now changes to very much wanted when they raise the child. I don't think any decent human being could have a child and not love it. It's their very own creation, man. Now, I'm pro-choice because women aren't just here to bear children--aside from that, who doesn't know a woman who's had an abortion? Who doesn't know of a woman who's a dear friend who's had an abortion? Seriously, think about it. Are you going to judge her now? Of course not.

[Guest Phailadelphia]

Why? It looks like a person, it has the same genes as a person, there's even studies that says it feels pain like a person. Three minutes before it comes out of the womb its not a person? 30 seconds before? 5 seconds before? Why does being in the womb make it a non-person? That argument doesn't work, too many holes.

 

All I'm saying here is that we should err on the side of caution. What happens during an abortion procedure is a horrific practice- I believe watching one is what turned Paul against it. The burden of proof should be on proving its not a person before killing it.

 

Didn't paul see the abortion of a baby in the 3rd trimester though?

 

Do you support or oppose abortion Taylor?

 

Support up until a certain point. After that point I don't approve of it unless the mother's health is in danger or the baby has downs, etc.

[oochymp 2,393]

abortion is definitely the hardest for me, I would say I am generally against abortion, but I recognize that there are times when it's necessary (rape, health of the mother, that sort of thing) so my biggest stance on it is that it shouldn't be a fall back birth control option, you shouldn't get an abortion just because you don't want a baby, to me that choice comes when you choose to have sex, everyone knows that no form of birth control is 100% effective, so IMO you shouldn't be having sex unless you're prepared, at least at some level, to have a baby.

[Guest Phailadelphia]

so IMO you shouldn't be having sex unless you're prepared, at least at some level, to have a baby.

 

That's ridiculous.

[oochymp 2,393]

That's ridiculous.

I wasn't expecting it to be a popular opinion, but it is my personal opinion, and to clarify, I'm not saying that you should only have sex if you want a baby, just that you should acknowledge that it is the natural result and therefor is a possibility that you need to prepare for, at least mentally

 

and again, abortion is an issue I have trouble with, because I realize that there are times where finances make raising a child difficult or impossible, I'd like to counter with the option of adoption, but I know that's generally not a good option (I'd say it's pretty well known that there are more children up for adoption than people who want to adopt) so I know that my opinion isn't a very practical one, which is where my thought process runs into difficulty

[Thanatos 2,847]

Didn't paul see the abortion of a baby in the 3rd trimester though?

 

 

 

Support up until a certain point. After that point I don't approve of it unless the mother's health is in danger or the baby has downs, etc.

 

As to your first question- I believe so yes. But again, the same logic can be put in here. Is it a human 2 minutes before the 3rd trimester, etc. You need to prove its not a human at some point in order to kill it.

 

Your second point... I am hoping you're not meaning what I think you are. So if the child has some sort of disease, they should be allowed to abort it, no matter what trimester its in?

 

Life of the mother is an exception, yes. It's arguably the only one.

[oochymp 2,393]

Life of the mother is an exception, yes. It's arguably the only one.

you'll have trouble finding anyone who doesn't also acknowledge an exception for rape, and most of the people in that category aren't really worth listening to

[blotsfan 2,112]

This might make me a bad person but I sure wouldn't want to raise a kid with downs.

[Favre4Ever+ 4,476]

I've thought about the possibility a lot actually... Taking care of or trying to take care of a child that has some serious disorder or defect (like Downs). I don't think I could do it, quite honestly.

 

The rest of your life is forfeited the moment that baby enters the world. Not just for 18 years, but for the rest of your life. Now, I am not making it sound like you stop being a parent after your son/daughter leaves the house or what have you.

 

But the level of attention and care required to support another human being... And being with them all day everyday for 60+ years, possibly until he time of your death...

 

I seriously doubt I could carry that burden -- physically or mentally.

 

I work as a waiter right now, and I have seen these very instances. Old(er) parents -- well into their 60s+ -- come in every once in a while with their son/daughter who has one of these illnesses and they are bound to a wheelchair...

 

And I do not envy that life at all. Both parents always look extremely stressed out and exhausted. They don't talk or laugh or smile... They feed their son/daughter with either a straw or have to cut everything up for them like they were 3 years old again... They wipe the drool and throw up off their chin and as it's running down their shirts.

 

I have the UTMOST respect for parents like those. They are far tougher than I ever will be.

 

It may be a poor reflection on myself, but I've come to that conclusion a while ago.