Greg Schiano and Tom Coughlin argue after game

[NYGIANTSFLYHIGH 1]

It is nobody's fault but your own for not being prepared for it. Just because you think the game is over, doesn't mean the opponent does. There was time on the clock and a longshot of winning, the Bucs had every right to try and get the ball loose. It isn't like we went flying in and hit Eli, I'm still not even sure a Buc player touched him. Besides, if you are so concerned about your starting QB getting hurt when you already had "won the game fair and square", put the backup out there. Is David Carr incapable of kneeing the ball?

 

I get your point, but no matter who youre playing yesterday in that spot any of the other 30 teams in the league, no ones prepared for that. I understand your jacked up about it because Schiano is bringing in a new philosophy to TB, and thats all well and good. However it comes down to the simple fact that in todays NFL its just not something you do.

[Milla4Prez63 678]

I get your point, but no matter who youre playing yesterday in that spot any of the other 30 teams in the league, no ones prepared for that. I understand your jacked up about it because Schiano is bringing in a new philosophy to TB, and thats all well and good. However it comes down to the simple fact that in todays NFL its just not something you do.

 

Says who? If teams aren't going to take these plays seriously, they deserve what they get. Don't take any play for granted. If Schiano had told the defense to go out there and just hit Eli as hard as you could, then that is bush league. But telling his defene to try and get the ball free in the slim chance of still winning is 100% legal and there is absolutely nothing wrong with it. It says a lot about how pussed out this league has become when we are debating whether trying to get the ball free on a kneel down is cheap or not. If the Bucs had came in and whacked Eli, I'd get the whining, but there isn't anything here.

[56AceInDaPlace 110]

I dont have a problem with it. Antonio Pierce was on First Take and he said he didnt have a problem. A former defender, he said its a choice by the players on the field as well. Hey whos to say Eli doesnt fumble that ball, then what? Coughlin is mad because the bucs failed to give up. I understand a player can get hurt,but its football man up. Coughlin overreacted IMO.

[NYGIANTSFLYHIGH 1]

To each their own I guess. My thinking is that these guys bang eachother around all game, you dont try and take someone by suprise on a play that happens every Sunday all over the league. You never see what happened yesterday in this day and age. You had a chance to win it fair and square and failed, than you try and take advantage by breaking an unwritten rule and catching a team off guard, risking injury in the process.

 

I also dont buy the whole "playing hard until there's 0:00 on the clock" line either. Why let the Giants run in for a TD? Why not try and strip it then, when a team knows they still need to be playing physical? Nope, instead we'll try and take advantage of guys when they arent ready.

[Bay 2,003]

NFL sides with Buccaneers on kneel-down controversy

 

Giants coach Tom Coughlin says Buccaneers coach Greg Schiano crossed the line by having his defensive linemen drill the Giants' offensive linemen in an attempt to cause a fumble when the Giants were kneeling down on the last play of Sunday's game.But the NFL says Coughlin is wrong, and the Bucs didn't violate any rules. The league saysthere will be no action taken and there were no violations during or after the kneel-down play, according to Mike Garafolo of USA Today.

 

In other words, NFL rules say a kneel-down play is a real play just like any other plays, and neither side needs to let up. Linemen on both sides can smash into each other just as they do on every other play, and if a defensive lineman makes it through before the quarterback kneels, he's free to try to strip the ball.

 

At a time when the NFL is otherwise trying to reduce the number and severity of collisions on the field, Schiano's approach to kneel-downs — and the NFL's endorsement of that approach — could lead to some violent collisions on a play that has traditionally been treated by players on both teams as nothing more than a formality before shaking hands and heading to the locker room.

Edited September 17, 2012 by BayAreaBomber

[AllYouNeedIsLovie 377]

I also dont buy the whole "playing hard until there's 0:00 on the clock" line either. Why let the Giants run in for a TD? Why not try and strip it then, when a team knows they still need to be playing physical? Nope, instead we'll try and take advantage of guys when they arent ready.

 

We let the Giants run it in for a TD because it gave us a better shot to win. If we stopped you guys, you would have ran the clock down to the final seconds and kicked an easy 21 yard Field Goal as time expired. Since we let you score the TD, we still had time for a miracle return or our offense to drive the ball down the field to try and tie up the game, which we almost did.

Edited September 17, 2012 by GoodellFTL

[Milla4Prez63 678]

To each their own I guess. My thinking is that these guys bang eachother around all game, you dont try and take someone by suprise on a play that happens every Sunday all over the league. You never see what happened yesterday in this day and age. You had a chance to win it fair and square and failed, than you try and take advantage by breaking an unwritten rule and catching a team off guard, risking injury in the process.

 

I also dont buy the whole "playing hard until there's 0:00 on the clock" line either. Why let the Giants run in for a TD? Why not try and strip it then, when a team knows they still need to be playing physical? Nope, instead we'll try and take advantage of guys when they arent ready.

 

You hadn't won the game fair and square until the clock hit 0. If the Bucs had forced a fumble and got a TD, we would've tied the game fair and square and who knows what else would happen. If you were up 21, that is one thing, the Bucs couldn't do anything to win the game. But down 7, they still could've had an extreme longshot. They did nothing wrong.

 

Greg Schiano wasn't there when this "unwritten rule" was agreed upon, he doesn't have to honor any of this BS. He told his players to try and get the ball, not hurt anyone. If any Giants players got hurt, it would be their own faults for not taking the final play of the game seriously. It is a sense of entitlement that just because we're kneeing the ball, you should just take it and shake hands. Like I said, it just shows how pussified this sport has become when we have to discuss whether or not going for the ball on a knee down is bush league or not.

[NYGIANTSFLYHIGH 1]

We let the Giants run it in for a TD because it gave us a better shot to win. If we stopped you guys, you would have ran the clock down to the final seconds and kicked an easy 21 yard Field Goal as time expired. Since we let you score the TD, we still had time for a miracle return or our offense to drive the ball down the field to try and tie up the game.

 

We could do this all day lol. Based on that response, I can argue that trying to strip the ball there gives you a better shot to win than trying to catch a team off guard and cause a fumble on a kneel down. It really doesnt matter at the end of the day. I believe it was bush league, you dont. Nothing illegal on the books about it, I just feel its something you dont do at this level. These guys make too much money to be snapping the ball and having DL dive at their knees trying to swipe the ball all while our guys are standing straight up, simply because the Bucs KNEW we would be standing straight up and not prepared for the shot theyre about to take

[56AceInDaPlace 110]

We could do this all day lol. Based on that response, I can argue that trying to strip the ball there gives you a better shot to win than trying to catch a team off guard and cause a fumble on a kneel down. It really doesnt matter at the end of the day. I believe it was bush league, you dont. Nothing illegal on the books about it, I just feel its something you dont do at this level. These guys make too much money to be snapping the ball and having DL dive at their knees trying to swipe the ball all while our guys are standing straight up, simply because the Bucs KNEW we would be standing straight up and not prepared for the shot theyre about to take

 

Your boy Pierce even said, some games, no fucking way im taking it easy. Other times he said ok ill chill out. Its a opinion matter in this case. You either like it or dont. Theres no middle ground. Considering in history, that weird shit has happened ( Eagles Giants ) to where a turnover has happened on a kneel down, i cant say i disagree. The whole point of doing it, when the Giants werent expecting it, is WHY the Bucs did it. Hoping for Eli to mishandle the snap and maybe get a runback. If it DID HAPPEN, i know its the IF game, but if it did, the Bucs would look smart as hell for doing that. Its like going for it on fourth down, if you make it your a genius, if u dont , its WTF are u thinking? Just one of those things..

[Milla4Prez63 678]

We could do this all day lol. Based on that response, I can argue that trying to strip the ball there gives you a better shot to win than trying to catch a team off guard and cause a fumble on a kneel down. It really doesnt matter at the end of the day. I believe it was bush league, you dont. Nothing illegal on the books about it, I just feel its something you dont do at this level. These guys make too much money to be snapping the ball and having DL dive at their knees trying to swipe the ball all while our guys are standing straight up, simply because the Bucs KNEW we would be standing straight up and not prepared for the shot theyre about to take

 

The Bucs had a better chance of winning by allowing the Giants to score a TD then ripping the ball out. It almost worked too, we nearly had the ball inside the red zone with 12 seconds left. Considering how bad your secondary is and the fact we have two massive athletic WRs, a TD wouldn't have been out of the question.

 

The Giants not being ready for that is YOUR OWN FAULT. It is a legit play of football and they shouldn't march out there and expect the defense to stand there and do nothing. Maybe from now on, the Giants will take kneel downs a little more seriously and Eli may not fall on his ass.

[NYGIANTSFLYHIGH 1]

The Bucs had a better chance of winning by allowing the Giants to score a TD then ripping the ball out. It almost worked too, we nearly had the ball inside the red zone with 12 seconds left. Considering how bad your secondary is and the fact we have two massive athletic WRs, a TD wouldn't have been out of the question.

 

The Giants not being ready for that is YOUR OWN FAULT. It is a legit play of football and they shouldn't march out there and expect the defense to stand there and do nothing. Maybe from now on, the Giants will take kneel downs a little more seriously and Eli may not fall on his ass.

 

I completely disagree....its a bush league play that you dont do at this level. Im not gona change your mind, youre not gona change mine so lets just leave it at that. you guys can show me a hundred tweets and videos of games agreeing with it, I can show you a hundred saying its bush league (http://www.nfl.com/videos/tampa-bay-buccaneers/0ap2000000062580/Schiano-crossing-the-line). Its a matter of opinion, thats all

[NYGIANTSFLYHIGH 1]

Your boy Pierce even said, some games, no fucking way im taking it easy. Other times he said ok ill chill out. Its a opinion matter in this case. You either like it or dont. Theres no middle ground. Considering in history, that weird shit has happened ( Eagles Giants ) to where a turnover has happened on a kneel down, i cant say i disagree. The whole point of doing it, when the Giants werent expecting it, is WHY the Bucs did it. Hoping for Eli to mishandle the snap and maybe get a runback. If it DID HAPPEN, i know its the IF game, but if it did, the Bucs would look smart as hell for doing that. Its like going for it on fourth down, if you make it your a genius, if u dont , its WTF are u thinking? Just one of those things..

 

That play didnt happen on a kneel down with giants eagles. First it was in a different era of football, where that type of play was more acceptable than it is now. Also on the play your talking about, the Eagles pushed through and knocked down our QB on a kneel down, than the next play the Giants opted to run the ball to avoid getting the QB hurt and got stripped. Once again though, that was in a different era of the game

[56AceInDaPlace 110]

That play didnt happen on a kneel down with giants eagles. First it was in a different era of football, where that type of play was more acceptable than it is now. Also on the play your talking about, the Eagles pushed through and knocked down our QB on a kneel down, than the next play the Giants opted to run the ball to avoid getting the QB hurt and got stripped. Once again though, that was in a different era of the game

 

I see what u are saying but why is shouldnt it be done? Basically having a defense say ok we lost you won well let you kneel it. If thats how you feel and they feel, instead of kneeling, run the ball. A defense shouldnt let you do what you want. Teams run up the score all the time, is that bush league too? Honest question BTW.

[Dutch 874]

Is this fucking football or what?? This is football gentlemen, a contact sport. Eli technically didn't even get contact from a bucs player so what is the whining about?? The play is cheap because they weren't expecting it? I wonder who's fault that is ? You should be prepared for almost every situation especially when it's in the 4th quarter, in this case the last play of the game. Shianos crew didn't give up and I respect that. The game isn't over until it says triple 0 on the clock. Zack already brought up a great point saying the Giants could have even kneeled the ball in the shotgun... The Giants were caught off guard and thought the Bucs had given up.. THat's the only issue here. There are no "gimmes" in the NFL. Giants thought it was a gimme on the last play and the Bucs wouldn't fight for the ball to make a miracle happen. It's not cheap, it's not cheating. The Giants just were caught off guard and weren't prepared. Shit, my QB gets fucked up almost every game; last year Vick got hit almost 200 times and a FUCK load of late hits that never got called because he's such a super athlete; and Coughlin / Giants fans are pissing because Eli got "knocked" down moving like 1 MPH to the ground by his own lineman

 

This is FOOTBALL!!

Edited September 17, 2012 by dutchff7

[NYGIANTSFLYHIGH 1]

I see what u are saying but why is shouldnt it be done? Basically having a defense say ok we lost you won well let you kneel it. If thats how you feel and they feel, instead of kneeling, run the ball. A defense shouldnt let you do what you want. Teams run up the score all the time, is that bush league too? Honest question BTW.

 

Once again, I see your point, Im not saying your wrong. Its just a matter of opinion. Do we not see EVERY week teams in 1 score games take a knee and the other team be classy about it? its an unwritten rule in the NFL, so yeah theres nothing illegal about it, but its something all coaches do out of respect for the other. What happened yesterday, in my opinion, was bush

[56AceInDaPlace 110]

Once again, I see your point, Im not saying your wrong. Its just a matter of opinion. Do we not see EVERY week teams in 1 score games take a knee and the other team be classy about it? its an unwritten rule in the NFL, so yeah theres nothing illegal about it, but its something all coaches do out of respect for the other. What happened yesterday, in my opinion, was bush

 

Alright fair enough. Then there shouldnt be anymore arguing on this topic then lol. Opinion is set in stone for it.

[Thanatos 2,847]

Giants fans are going to argue its bush league, but as others have said, if it worked, the Bucs would look like geniuses.

 

I think the counterpoint here though, is that if a team knows its coming, it will never work. The whole point of the play, and the only way it possibly works, is if the team doesn't know its coming. So in that way, it's kinda a cheap shot, since its just an unwritten rule. But hey, its completely legal and within the written rules. Every team knows Schiano will do this, so it will never happen again, and we will all forget about this in two weeks.

 

There does come a point where you give up. Let me spin out a scenario for the Bucs defenders here: Let's say your team is down 21-0 with :50 left, no timeouts. Are you still trying your damndest to get into the endzone? Let's say you do. Now its 21-7. The other team recovers the onsides, with about :30 left. Technically, you could rush the QB, strip the ball, throw a quick TD, recover the onsides, throw another TD and tie the game. Is that enough of a chance to continue going for it? What about if its a three touchdown lead? Or four? There does become a point where its understood that the game is over. (I'm not saying that the Bucs were in that position, merely pointing out that there *is* such a position).

 

What Deion said on Gameday though, was one of the most idiotic things I have ever heard anyone say. He said, and this is from memory, so it may be a little off: "If you're going to play the whole 60 minutes, from 60 to 0, then let us know before the game, and then we can accommodate you." Like, really, Deion? We have to let the other team know that we are actually going to play the whole sixty minutes?

Edited September 17, 2012 by Thanatos19

[56AceInDaPlace 110]

Giants fans are going to argue its bush league, but as others have said, if it worked, the Bucs would look like geniuses.

 

I think the counterpoint here though, is that if a team knows its coming, it will never work. The whole point of the play, and the only way it possibly works, is if the team doesn't know its coming. So in that way, it's kinda a cheap shot, since its just an unwritten rule. But hey, its completely legal and within the written rules. Every team knows Schiano will do this, so it will never happen again, and we will all forget about this in two weeks.

 

There does come a point where you give up. Let me spin out a scenario for the Bucs defenders here: Let's say your team is down 21-0 with :50 left, no timeouts. Are you still trying your damndest to get into the endzone? Let's say you do. Now its 21-7. The other team recovers the onsides, with about :30 left. Technically, you could rush the QB, strip the ball, throw a quick TD, recover the onsides, throw another TD and tie the game. Is that enough of a chance to continue going for it? What about if its a three touchdown lead? Or four? There does become a point where its understood that the game is over. (I'm not saying that the Bucs were in that position, merely pointing out that there *is* such a position).

 

What Deion said on Gameday though, was one of the most idiotic things I have ever heard anyone say. He said, and this is from memory, so it may be a little off: "If you're going to play the whole 60 minutes, from 60 to 0, then let us know before the game, and then we can accommodate you." Like, really, Deion? We have to let the other team know that we are actually going to play the whole sixty minutes?

 

At THAT POINT doing what the Bucs did would be bush league. I get what you did here and id like to think teams would say fuck it yeah games over. Because even if u get lucky and return the fumbled snap for a TD you still lost. They only did it because it was only a 7 point game. It would have been a tied game if they returned it.

[BucD+ 648]

Giants fans are going to argue its bush league, but as others have said, if it worked, the Bucs would look like geniuses.

 

I think the counterpoint here though, is that if a team knows its coming, it will never work. The whole point of the play, and the only way it possibly works, is if the team doesn't know its coming. So in that way, it's kinda a cheap shot, since its just an unwritten rule. But hey, its completely legal and within the written rules. Every team knows Schiano will do this, so it will never happen again, and we will all forget about this in two weeks.

 

There does come a point where you give up. Let me spin out a scenario for the Bucs defenders here: Let's say your team is down 21-0 with :50 left, no timeouts. Are you still trying your damndest to get into the endzone? Let's say you do. Now its 21-7. The other team recovers the onsides, with about :30 left. Technically, you could rush the QB, strip the ball, throw a quick TD, recover the onsides, throw another TD and tie the game. Is that enough of a chance to continue going for it? What about if its a three touchdown lead? Or four? There does become a point where its understood that the game is over. (I'm not saying that the Bucs were in that position, merely pointing out that there *is* such a position).

 

What Deion said on Gameday though, was one of the most idiotic things I have ever heard anyone say. He said, and this is from memory, so it may be a little off: "If you're going to play the whole 60 minutes, from 60 to 0, then let us know before the game, and then we can accommodate you." Like, really, Deion? We have to let the other team know that we are actually going to play the whole sixty minutes?

 

Not surprised about Deion's remarks. He's awful.

[Dutch 874]

Giants fans are going to argue its bush league, but as others have said, if it worked, the Bucs would look like geniuses.

 

I think the counterpoint here though, is that if a team knows its coming, it will never work. The whole point of the play, and the only way it possibly works, is if the team doesn't know its coming. So in that way, it's kinda a cheap shot, since its just an unwritten rule. But hey, its completely legal and within the written rules. Every team knows Schiano will do this, so it will never happen again, and we will all forget about this in two weeks.

 

There does come a point where you give up. Let me spin out a scenario for the Bucs defenders here: Let's say your team is down 21-0 with :50 left, no timeouts. Are you still trying your damndest to get into the endzone? Let's say you do. Now its 21-7. The other team recovers the onsides, with about :30 left. Technically, you could rush the QB, strip the ball, throw a quick TD, recover the onsides, throw another TD and tie the game. Is that enough of a chance to continue going for it? What about if its a three touchdown lead? Or four? There does become a point where its understood that the game is over. (I'm not saying that the Bucs were in that position, merely pointing out that there *is* such a position).

 

What Deion said on Gameday though, was one of the most idiotic things I have ever heard anyone say. He said, and this is from memory, so it may be a little off: "If you're going to play the whole 60 minutes, from 60 to 0, then let us know before the game, and then we can accommodate you." Like, really, Deion? We have to let the other team know that we are actually going to play the whole sixty minutes?

 

 

It's not Schianos fault that Couglin didn't prepare for every possible scenario on the last play of the game. The entire this is that he "assumed" that the game was over before it really was. People can call it cheap all they want. Coughlin didn't prepare for the possibility that the Bucs would try and force a fumble which is completely legit and within the rules; that's NOT cheating or a cheap shot. Shit, Eli didn't even get hit so I don't even see what all the fuss is about. All I see here is the Bucs not giving up hope and fighting til the clock hit triple 0. Coughlin needs to take off his skirt and prepare for the fact that teams aren't going to give up on the last play of the game when the score is a one possession game; kneel down or not.

[Thanatos 2,847]

It's not Schianos fault that Couglin didn't prepare for every possible scenario on the last play of the game. The entire this is that he "assumed" that the game was over before it really was. People can call it cheap all they want. Coughlin didn't prepare for the possibility that the Bucs would try and force a fumble which is completely legit and within the rules; that's NOT cheating or a cheap shot. Shit, Eli didn't even get hit so I don't even see what all the fuss is about. All I see here is the Bucs not giving up hope and fighting til the clock hit triple 0. Coughlin needs to take off his skirt and prepare for the fact that teams aren't going to give up on the last play of the game when the score is a one possession game; kneel down or not.

 

It is kinda a cheap shot because no one does this, and I highly doubt it catches on.

 

Like I said in the rest of that spot, "fighting till the clock hits triple zero" is not that great of an argument. There is clearly a point where you give up. Schiano just doesn't believe that this particular point was it, and pretty much every other NFL coach does. There's nothing wrong with it, it's just never going to work. (Has this ever worked, even once, in this history of the NFL?)

[Favre4Ever+ 4,476]

Just listened to Tom Coughlin's speech to the Giants in the locker room after the Bucs game...

 

"You guys never gave up..."

 

"You kept fighting..."

 

"Never thought you were out of it..."

 

 

Yet... Greg Schiano is a douche. Right.

[Dutch 874]

It is kinda a cheap shot because no one does this, and I highly doubt it catches on.

 

Like I said in the rest of that spot, "fighting till the clock hits triple zero" is not that great of an argument. There is clearly a point where you give up. Schiano just doesn't believe that this particular point was it, and pretty much every other NFL coach does. There's nothing wrong with it, it's just never going to work. (Has this ever worked, even once, in this history of the NFL?)

 

Because no one does it, how does it qualify as a cheap shot? There was no reason for him to "clearly" give up on the last play of the game in a one possession game. How many times have we seen crazy plays last moment plays in games in this league that should have been gimmes? Romo fumbles snap, the plenty of other center - qb fumble exchanges. As long as it's a one possession game and a play left, anything can happen. If there is "nothing" wrong with it, then by that logic it can't be considered "cheap".

[BucD+ 648]

A bit of hypocrisy here by coach Coughlin?

 

And how's this for hypocrisy. Today on ESPN's First Take, Antonio Pierce, who played for and won a Super Bowl with Coughlin as his defensive captain, said he did the same thing multiple times on a kneel down play! When asked by Skip Bayless if he was ever chastised by a Giants coach for such a "dirty" play...Pierce said No, Never! OK Coughlin...so it's fine when your defensive captain gets after it on the Victory formation but not so much when the Bucs do it to you? Funny how these things come back to bite you in the butt!

LINK

[NYGIANTSFLYHIGH 1]

A bit of hypocrisy here by coach Coughlin?

 

 

LINK

 

Pierce and Coughlin never got along...he has bashed him a lot since he retired. I would take everything he says with a grain of salt