Mali Islamists Vow Counter-Attacks on France

[OSUViking 505]

BAMAKO/PARIS (Reuters) - Al Qaeda-linked Islamist rebels in Mali launched a counter-offensive on Monday after three days of strikes by French fighter jets on their strongholds in the desert north, vowing to drag France into a long and brutal ground war.

 

France intensified its air raids on Sunday using state-of-the-art Rafale planes and Gazelle attack helicopters to pummel training camps at the heart of the vast area seized by rebels in April, while pouring hundreds of its ground troops into the capital Bamako.

 

Paris is determined to end Islamist domination of northern Mali, which many fear could act as a launchpad for attacks on the West and a base for coordination with al Qaeda in Yemen, Somalia and North Africa.

 

Launching a counter-attack far to the southwest of recent fighting, the Islamists clashed fiercely with government forces on Monday in the central town of Diabaly, residents and Malian military sources said.

 

"The Islamists are fighting with the army inside the town," said one local resident. "They started to infiltrate the town last night by crossing the river in little groups."

 

A spokesman for the MUJWA Islamist group, one of the main factions in the rebel alliance, promised French citizens would pay for Sunday's air strikes in their stronghold of Gao. Dozens of Islamist fighters were killed when rockets struck a fuel depot and a customs house being used as their headquarters.

 

"They should attack on the ground if they are men. We'll welcome them with open arms," Oumar Ould Hamaha told Europe 1 radio. "France has opened the gates of hell for all the French. She has fallen into a trap which is much more dangerous than Iraq, Afghanistan or Somalia."

 

France has said its sudden intervention on Friday, after Mali's president appealed for urgent aid in the face of a rebel advance, stopped the Islamists from seizing the capital Bamako. It has pledged to continue air strikes in coming days.

 

President Francois Hollande says France's aim is simply to support a mission by West African bloc ECOWAS to retake the north, as mandated by a U.N. Security Council resolution in December. Under pressure from Paris, regional states have said they hope to have soldiers on the ground in coming days.

France convened a U.N. Security Council meeting for Monday to discuss Mali.

 

Hollande's intervention has won plaudits from Western leaders but raises the threat level for eight French hostages held by al Qaeda allies in the Sahara and for the 30,000 French expatriates living in neighbouring, mostly Muslim states. Concerned about reprisals at home, France has tightened security at public buildings and on public transport.

 

http://news.yahoo.com/france-bombs-islamist-strongholds-deep-north-mali-052016965.html

 

I'd like to highlight this: "'They should attack on the ground if they are men. We'll welcome them with open arms,' Oumar Ould Hamaha told Europe 1 radio."

 

Essentially, the Islamists know they can't do anything against the state-of-the-art French Air Force, let alone the Rafale. If they get into a conventional conflict with France, this ends quickly. France is also using their influence in the region to bring neighboring states in to help the cause of the struggling Mali. Could it be this is the next Iraq or Afghanistan? I have my doubts, as I think France can mop up this conflict very quickly.

 

Also! Huzzah, someone else is policing the world! At least someone in Europe is growing a backbone and flexing their military muscle.

Edited January 14, 2013 by Vikingfan465

[Kaep'tain+ 18]

I find it funny a terrorist group is calling out someones manhood basically. I mean they only suicide bomb people and use IEDs.

[Thanatos 2,847]

If I had to pick one European country as actually growing some balls, well, it would not have been France, suffice to say.

 

So long as the US doesn't get dragged into this one, let 'em at it. Hopefully France can mop this up quickly.

[WindyCitySports 407]

France has a military?

[OSUViking 505]

Ha, ha, ha guys.

 

 

I have to try and suppress the history buff side of me right now... it's gonna be tough but I'll just say one thing: France is one of the strongest nations in history.

[OSUViking 505]

If I had to pick one European country as actually growing some balls, well, it would not have been France, suffice to say.

 

 

Actually, it seems like they are the only ones that has the balls to use its military like this. Britain is cutting off military spending like it's a malignant tumor, and Germany is nothing compared to what it used to be (still very strong). I still hold that France is the strongest nation in Europe, and I include Russia in that conversation.

 

EDIT: I found another link:

 

http://www.defencetalk.com/france-extends-airstrikes-to-islamist-heartlands-in-mali-46308/

 

 

French forces on Sunday carried out airstrikes in Mali for a third straight day and extended their bombing campaign to the northern strongholds of Islamist forces they are trying to drive out of the centre of the country.

 

The strikes, designed to support Malian army efforts to push Al-Qaeda-linked groups back to the north of the vast West African state, were reported to have claimed the life of a prominent Islamist leader and up to 100 rank-and-file fighters.

 

Witnesses said French fighter jets on Sunday struck a camp used by Islamist militants in Lere, around 150 kilometres (95 miles) north of Konna, a key central town which government troops recaptured with French aerial backing on Friday.

 

French Defence Minister Jean-Yves Le Drian acknowledged that the unexpected advances made by the Islamists last week had not yet been fully reversed as officials admitted they were proving a tougher adversary than anticipated.

 

“There were (air strikes) last night, there are now and there will be today and tomorrow,” Le Drian said in Paris.

 

“Our intervention is ongoing and we will continue in order to make them retreat and allow Malian and African forces to go forward and re-establish the territorial integrity of the country,” Le Drian said.

 

Aides to French President Francois Hollande described the militants as better equipped, armed and trained than they had expected.

 

“What has struck us markedly is how modern their equipment is and their ability to use it,” one said in a reference to the rebels’ hit on a French helicopter which resulted in the death of its pilot, Lieutenant Damien Boiteux, France’s only confirmed fatality.

 

Senior officers from neighbouring countries were expected in Bamako on Sunday to prepare for the arrival of the first troops of a multinational West African force.

The force has been authorised by the UN Security Council to help the Mali government reclaim control of the north of the country and will be commanded by General Shehu Abdulkadir of Nigeria, which will provide around 600 men.

 

Burkina Faso, Niger, Senegal and Togo all pledged around 500 troops this weekend while Benin has said it will send 300 soldiers.

It remained unclear when any of these forces would arrive and how quickly they could be deployed to the frontline.

 

A Malian security source said leading Islamist Abdel Krim had been killed in Konna. Krim, nicknamed ‘Kojak’, was said to be a key lieutenant of Iyad Ag Ghaly, the leader of Ansar Dine, one of the Islamist groups which have controlled northern Mali since last April.

 

France has been guarded about revealing the exact number of ground troops it will deploy in Mali but media reports have suggested a figure of around 500.

Colonel Paul Geze, the French mission’s commander, said the French contingent would be at full strength by Monday and primarily deployed around Bamako to protect the 6,000-strong expatriate community.

 

Since taking advantage of a power vacuum created by a military coup in Bamako to seize control of huge swathes of Mali in April 2012, the Islamists have imposed an extreme form of Muslim law in areas they control.

 

Centuries-old mausoleums they see as heretical have been destroyed and perceived offenders against their moral code have been subjected to floggings, amputations and sometimes executions.

 

In addition to the French helicopter pilot, the conflict has claimed the lives of 11 Malian soldiers, according to an update released on Saturday evening.

A Malian officer in the central town of Mopti, near the front line, said dozens, possibly as many as a hundred Islamists had been killed in Konna.

 

Human Rights Watch, citing reports from residents, said at least 10 civilians had died as a result of the fighting in Konna, including three children who drowned while trying to flee across the Niger river.

 

France’s intervention has been backed by the main opposition at home, by Britain, which has offered logistical support in the form of transport planes, and the United States, which is considering offering its surveillance drones to help the operation.

 

Its closest partner Germany has also defended France’s action but has ruled out sending any troops and warned that Mali’s problems could only be solved by political mediation.

 

Edited January 15, 2013 by Vikingfan465

[Omerta+ 1,206]

Oh and yet when we do this we are the assholes. Fuck France, fuck the UN, and fuck NATO.

 

If this starts I really hope that our pusscake president does not feel his heart strings being tugged and getting drawn into that shit.

[OSUViking 505]

The only role I can see the US providing is reconnaissance via high altitude UAVs, such as the Global Hawk. Unless the Islamists have legitimate SAMs and not just MANPADs, we won't lose any of those provided none of them malfunction (I say this because I have no confidence in our defense contractors).

 

I think people aren't bitching about this because this was a UN SC Mandate because of the serious threat the Islamists present. Also, France isn't dragging in NATO and is really only calling on countries neighboring Mali to join in. It might also be that people just like France more right now?

[Thanatos 2,847]

Ha, ha, ha guys.

 

 

I have to try and suppress the history buff side of me right now... it's gonna be tough but I'll just say one thing: France is one of the strongest nations in history.

 

France lost almost every war they were in. They may be strong now, but historically they were most certainly not.

[ATL_Predator+ 1,196]

France lost almost every war they were in. They may be strong now, but historically they were most certainly not.

 

[OSUViking 505]

France lost almost every war they were in. They may be strong now, but historically they were most certainly not.

 

History says otherwise:

 

According to the British historian Niall Ferguson, France has participated in 168 major European wars since 387 BC, out of which they have won 109, drawn 10 and lost 49: this makes them the most successful military power in European history.

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/qi/8080884/Quite-Interesting-the-QI-cabinet-of-curiosity.html

[OSUViking 505]

Source: http://news.yahoo.com/militants-seize-dozens-hostages-algeria-212226289--finance.html

 

 

ALGIERS, Algeria (AP) — As Algerian army helicopters clattered overhead deep in the Sahara desert, Islamist militants hunkered down for the night in a natural gas complex they had assaulted Wednesday morning, killing two people and taking dozens of foreigners hostage in what could be the first spillover from France's intervention in Mali.

 

The Algerian army has surrounded the complex and about 1,000 miles (1,600 kilometers) from the coast, there is no obvious way for the kidnappers to escape in their four wheel drive vehicles with their hostages.

 

A militant group claimed responsibility for the rare attack on one of oil-rich Algeria's energy facilities, saying it came in revenge for the North African nation's support for France's military operation against al-Qaida-linked rebels in neighboring Mali. The militants said they were holding 41 foreigners from the energy complex, including seven Americans.

 

The group — called Katibat Moulathamine or the Masked Brigade — phoned a Mauritanian news outlet to say one of its affiliates had carried out the operation at the Ain Amenas gas field, located 800 miles (1,300 kilometers) south of Algiers, the Algerian capital, and that France must cease its intervention in Mali to ensure the safety of the hostages.

 

BP, together with the Norwegian company Statoil and the Algerian state oil company Sonatrach, operates the gas field. A Japanese company, JGC Corp, provides services for the facility as well.

 

In Rome, U.S. Defense Secretary Leon Panetta declared that the U.S. "will take all necessary and proper steps" to deal with the attack in Algeria. He would not detail what such steps might be but condemned the action as "terrorist attack" and likened it to al-Qaida activities in Pakistan, Afghanistan and in the United States on Sept. 11, 2001.

Algeria's top security official, Interior Minister Daho Ould Kabila, said that "security forces have surrounded the area and cornered the terrorists, who are in one wing of the complex's living quarters."

 

He said one Briton and one Algerian were killed in the attack, while a Norwegian and two other Britons were among the six wounded.

"We reject all negotiations with the group, which is holding some 20 hostages from several nationalities," Kabila said on national television, raising the specter of a possible armed assault to try to free the hostages.

 

The head of a catering company working on the base told the French Journal de Dimanche that helicopters were flying over the complex and the army waited outside. There were even reports of clashes between the two sides and a member of the militant group told the Mauritanian news outlet they had already repelled one assault by Algerian soldiers late Wednesday night.

 

It was not immediately possible to rectify the discrepancies in the number of reported hostages. Their identities were also unclear, but Ireland announced that they included a 36-year-old married Irish man and Japan, Britain and the U.S. said their citizens were involved as well. A Norwegian woman said her husband called her saying that he had been taken hostage.

 

Hundreds of Algerians work at the plant and were also taken hostage in the Islamist attack, but the Algerian state news agency reported they were gradually released unharmed Wednesday in small groups.

 

The Algerian minister said the militants appeared to be hoping to negotiate their departure from the area, something he rejected. He also dismissed theories that the militants came from across the border in Libya, which is just 60 miles (100 kilometers) away, or from Mali, more than 600 miles (1,000 kilometers) away.

 

Kabila said the roughly 20 well armed gunmen were from Algeria itself, operating under orders from Moktar Belmoktar, al-Qaida's strongman in the Sahara.

In Washington, U.S. State Department spokeswoman Victoria Nuland confirmed that "U.S. citizens were among the hostages."

 

The caller to the Nouakchott Information Agency, which often carries announcements from extremist groups, said the kidnapping was carried out by "Those Who Signed in Blood," a group created to attack the countries participating in the offensive against Islamist groups in Mali.

 

The Masked Brigade was formed by Belmoktar, a one-eyed Algerian who recently declared he was leaving the terror network's Algerian branch, Al-Qaida in the Islamic Maghreb, to create his own group. He said at the time he would still maintain ties with the central organization based in Afghanistan and Pakistan.

 

The name of his group could be a reference to the nomadic Tuareg inhabitants of the Sahara, known for masking their faces with blue veils.

 

A close associate of Belmoktar blamed the West for France's recent air and ground intervention against Islamist fighters in Mali.

 

"It's the United Nations that gave the green light to this intervention and all Western countries are now going to pay a price. We are now globalizing our conflict," Oumar Ould Hamaha told The Associated Press by telephone Wednesday night from an undisclosed location.

 

French President Francois Hollande launched the surprise operation in Mali, a former French colony in West Africa, on Friday, hoping to stop the al-Qaida-linked and other Islamist extremists whom he believes pose a danger to the world.

 

Further kidnappings could well be on the horizon, warned Sajjan Gohel, the international security director for the Asia-Pacific Foundation.

 

"The chances are that this may not be a one-off event, that there could be other attempts in Africa — especially north and western Africa — to directly target foreign interests," he said. "It's unclear as to what fate these individuals may meet, whether these terrorists are going to want a ransom or whether they'll utilize this for propaganda purposes."

 

Wednesday's attack in Algeria began with an ambush on a bus carrying employees from the massive gas plant to the nearby airport but the attackers were driven off, according to the Algerian government, which said three vehicles of heavily armed men were involved.

 

"After their failed attempt, the terrorist group headed to the complex's living quarters and took a number of workers with foreign nationalities hostage," the government said in a statement.

 

Attacks on oil-rich Algeria's hydrocarbon facilities are very rare, despite decades of fighting an Islamist insurgency, mostly in northern Algeria.

 

In the last several years, however, al-Qaida's influence in the poorly patrolled desert of southern Algeria and northern Mali and Niger has grown and the group operates smuggling and kidnapping networks throughout the area. Militant groups that seized control of a vast section of northern Mali last year already hold seven French hostages as well as four Algerian diplomats.

 

Prime Minister David Cameron's office said "several British nationals" were involved, while Japanese news agencies, citing unnamed government officials, said there are three Japanese hostages.

 

Late Wednesday, Statoil said five employees —four Norwegians and a Canadian — were safe at an Algerian military camp and two of them had suffered minor injuries. It said 12 employees were unaccounted for.

 

The Norwegian newspaper Bergens Tidende said a 55-year-old Norwegian working on the site called his wife to say he had been abducted.

 

Algeria had long warned against any military intervention against the rebels in northern Mali, fearing the violence could spill over its own long and porous border. Though its position softened slightly after Hollande visited Algiers in December, Algerian authorities remain skeptical about the operation and worried about its consequences on the region.

 

Algeria, Africa's biggest country, has been an ally of the U.S. and France in fighting terrorism for years. But its relationship with France has been fraught with lingering resentment over colonialism and the bloody war for independence that left Algeria a free country 50 years ago.

 

Algeria's strong security forces have struggled for years against Islamist extremists, and have in recent years managed to nearly snuff out violence by al-Qaida in the Islamic Maghreb around its home base in northern Algeria. In the meantime, AQIM moved its focus southward.

 

AQIM has made tens of millions of dollars off kidnapping in the region, abducting Algerian businessmen or politicians, and sometimes foreigners, for ransom.

 

 

 

Fucking fuck... we're probably already warming up the drones. sadface

[Thanatos 2,847]

History says otherwise:

 

 

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/qi/8080884/Quite-Interesting-the-QI-cabinet-of-curiosity.html

 

 

That seems like an astonishingly high number of "major conflicts." Pretty sure that's the number of major battles, not wars.

 

Edit: Actually, you've misquoted your own article. It isn't wars, it is battles, that makes more sense:

According to the historian Niall Ferguson, of the 125 major European wars fought since 1495, the French have participated in 50 – more than Austria (47) and England (43). Out of 168 battles fought since 387BC, they have won 109, lost 49 and drawn 10.

 

Edit Again: I'd be curious if my high school history was just that wrong, or if the French did indeed win a lot of battles, but not many wars.

 

On the funny side of things, you must also take into account the three French rules of warfare:

 

Rule #1: "France's armies are victorious only when not led by a Frenchman."

Rule #2: "France only wins when America does most of the fighting."

Rule #3: "When incapable of any victory whatsoever - claim someone else's".

 

http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/text/france.html

 

War on Terrorism

- France, keeping in mind its recent history, surrenders to Germans and Muslims just to be safe. Attempts to surrender to Vietnamese ambassador fail after he takes refuge in a McDonald's.

Edited January 17, 2013 by Thanatos19

[Kaep'tain+ 18]

France lost on its own turf to Germany in WW2. Not only did they lose, but it only took 1 month, and 15 days. France is a pussified country that may have finally grew some balls. Lets not get involved in this conflict, but I can't see the US denying a chance for a little drone action.

[OSUViking 505]

France lost on its own turf to Germany in WW2. Not only did they lose, but it only took 1 month, and 15 days. France is a pussified country that may have finally grew some balls. Lets not get involved in this conflict, but I can't see the US denying a chance for a little drone action.

 

From a historical standpoint, they lost because of their leaders. They were idiots and, practically, traitors. If France doesn't appease Germany at all and attacks before 1939, they could have prevented this whole war. They were in fact quite a strong nation; it's not the entirety of France's fault their leaders were pathetic. Also, before we start calling the French pussies during WW2 I will cite de Gaulle and the Free French Army. Those who did not want Germany to just walk over them did fight back (not all of them... but you get the point).

 

Hell, even with points such as WW2, Algeria, and Indochina, France was still a significant military power during the 20th Century pretty much at all times. It also doesn't change the fact that historically they have been the most militarily successful nation in European history and that they are now arguably the strongest nation in Europe.

 

 

Now regarding US involvement... I'd rather us stay out of this, but I would much prefer drone missions than boots on the ground.

[OSUViking 505]

That seems like an astonishingly high number of "major conflicts." Pretty sure that's the number of major battles, not wars.

 

Edit: Actually, you've misquoted your own article. It isn't wars, it is battles, that makes more sense:

 

I thought I was quoting it under the context of battles. Huh, bad wording on my part then.

 

Edit Again: I'd be curious if my high school history was just that wrong, or if the French did indeed win a lot of battles, but not many wars.

 

On the funny side of things, you must also take into account the three French rules of warfare:

 

Rule #1: "France's armies are victorious only when not led by a Frenchman."

Rule #2: "France only wins when America does most of the fighting."

Rule #3: "When in doubt, send an ally."

 

http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/text/france.html

 

The French did win that many battles. Also thanks for posting that link... I love albinoblacksheep.

 

EDIT: Haha, some of these things are great.

 

"World War I

- Tied and on the way to losing, France is saved by the United States [Entering the war late -ed.]. Thousands of French women find out what it's like to not only sleep with a winner, but one who doesn't call her "Fraulein." Sadly, widespread use of condoms by American forces forestalls any improvement in the French bloodline."

Edited January 17, 2013 by Vikingfan465

[blotsfan 2,112]

Now regarding US involvement... I'd rather us stay out of this, but I would much prefer drone missions than boots on the ground.

I do agree with this. I only dislike the drones because I dislike the fighting. Drones are definitely the best way to go about this if we have to.

[Guest tOSUBUCK3Y3]

Ahh the French. Cant accomplish anything militarily without a little help from the USA.

[Turry 755]

France wants Canada to commit more. We let them borrow a plane for week and thats enough after spending a decade in the middle east last thing we need is to go there.

[OSUViking 505]

Ahh the French. Cant accomplish anything militarily without a little help from the USA.

 

That might be the case throughout the 20th Century (they were still pretty powerful throughout), but they are certainly capable of something of this caliber. I'll mention this again, France is easily a Top 5 military power in the world and arguably the strongest nation in Europe. From what I've read, they took the largest burden in Libya after the initial attacks.

 

EDIT:

 

My source for the above statement: http://www.americanambassadors.org/index.cfm?fuseaction=Publications.article&articleid=252

Edited January 18, 2013 by Vikingfan465

[Guest tOSUBUCK3Y3]

So what war have they proven their military might in?

[OSUViking 505]

So what war have they proven their military might in?

 

I mean, you can look at just about every war they've participated in. I wouldn't look at the Franco-Prussian War, but other than that they've been a serious military threat in most wars, even the ones that they lost.

 

WWI - I think people neglect to remember that France and Britain held their own for how long? The US certainly helped and got the offensive moving, but Germany wasn't really moving anywhere.

 

WW2 - I've already mentioned this. Those who wanted to fight were a tremendous pain in Germany's ass.

 

The Indochina Wars were ugly for everyone.

 

Both Gulf Wars...

 

Afghanistan...

 

LIBYA.

[Guest tOSUBUCK3Y3]

I mean, you can look at just about every war they've participated in. I wouldn't look at the Franco-Prussian War, but other than that they've been a serious military threat in most wars, even the ones that they lost.

 

WWI - I think people neglect to remember that France and Britain held their own for how long? The US certainly helped and got the offensive moving, but Germany wasn't really moving anywhere.

 

WW2 - I've already mentioned this. Those who wanted to fight were a tremendous pain in Germany's ass.

 

The Indochina Wars were ugly for everyone.

 

Both Gulf Wars...

 

Afghanistan...

 

LIBYA.

 

I think youre grasping at straws. Germany owned france. Literally. The french have a reputation for weakness for a reason. Im not giving them credit for participation. I think you are.

[OSUViking 505]

I think youre grasping at straws. Germany owned france. Literally. The french have a reputation for weakness for a reason. Im not giving them credit for participation. I think you are.

 

 

So far, you're living up to the early reputation you've given yourself.

[Guest tOSUBUCK3Y3]

So far, you're living up to the early reputation you've given yourself.

 

U mad about something?