Which MLB do you take?

[BroadcastinMayne 2]

My choice would have to be London Fletcher mainly because he's been more durable, which has kept him in the league longer, he's more of a low key guy but has been and is a great leader and he's been able to perform without much talent at all around him on the defensive side of the ball most of his career. Its a close call but the durability is the main reason i take Fletcher.

[Attyla the Hawk 197]

My choice would have to be London Fletcher mainly because he's been more durable, which has kept him in the league longer, he's more of a low key guy but has been and is a great leader and he's been able to perform without much talent at all around him on the defensive side of the ball most of his career. Its a close call but the durability is the main reason i take Fletcher.

 

I'd echo that. Although really any one of those three solves that position. Fletcher hasn't received his due and that's a shame. I'm sure it's part due to the fact that his teams have been pretty awful throughout his career. So he's languished in relative anonymity.

 

If I'm building a team, I want Fletcher's production at his salary and durability over Lewis or Urlacher. He fills a stat sheet, provides quality leadership and can be counted on week in and week out.

[FartWaffles 1,857]

Gimme Ray Ray all day! Not only from a career production standpoint, but for his motivation/leadership personality that you just cannot put a price on how valuable that is to a locker room.

[Omerta+ 1,206]

Since his rookie year in 1996, Lewis has won numerous NFL awards, including being named Defensive Player of the Year twice (2000 and 2003), as well as Super Bowl MVP after winning Super Bowl XXXV after the 2000 season. He is also a 13-time Pro Bowler and seven-time AP First Team All-Pro player, a three-time AP Second Team All-Pro Selection, and was also a two-time All-American in college (1994 and 1995).

On May 11, 2010, a portion of Baltimore's North Avenue was renamed "Ray Lewis Way" in honor of the linebacker and his charitable work.

Lewis had career totals of 2,061 total tackles (1,567 solo), 19 forced fumbles, 117 passes defended, 102.5 stuffs for a loss, 41.5 sacks, 20 fumble recoveries, 31 interceptions for 503 yards, one safety and three touchdowns in 228 games. He has been selected to 13 NFL Pro Bowl games, a record for an inside/middle linebacker, in his 17 seasons, and led the NFL in tackles five times (1997, 1999, 2001, 2003 and 2004). In 2003, Lewis led all linebackers with six interceptions, a total matching the post-merger all-time record for a middle linebacker in a single season. Lewis was named first-team Associated Press All-Pro in 1999, 2000, 2001, 2003, 2004, 2008, 2009 and second-team All-Pro in 1997, 1998, and 2010. His 10 total All-Pro selections is a record for an inside/middle linebacker and ties the record for a linebacker (Lawrence Taylor also has 10 selections). In 21 career playoff games, Lewis has totaled 214 tackles (135 solo), two sacks, six forced fumbles, one fumble recovery, two interceptions for 54 yards, 15 pass deflections, 10.5 stuffs for a loss, and one touchdown.

 

If you ever find yourself in a debate with someone about who the better middle linebacker was between Brian Urlacher and Ray Lewis, pick Ray Lewis. That's who Urlacher would pick. Urlacher, who announced his retirement on Wednesday, thinks Lewis is not only better than him but better than every middle linebacker who has ever played the game.

 

As long as neither player comes out of retirement, both men would become eligible for the Hall of Fame in 2018, "If I'm lucky enough to go in with Ray, I'll say this about Ray: I think I'm pretty good; Ray's the best of all time," Urlacher said on the NFL Network's Total Access show. "His numbers, guys who played with him, you watch him, he did it the right way, he played hard. He's the best middle linebacker of all time."

 

Those are strong comments, especially coming from Urlacher, whose Bears have produced some of the best middle linebackers in NFL history, including Mike Singletary and Dick Butkus. "He was great," Urlacher said of Lewis. "I'm up there, I think, but not quite. The longevity he had was crazy, 17 years."

 

 

/thread.

[Omerta+ 1,206]

My choice would have to be London Fletcher mainly because he's been more durable, which has kept him in the league longer, he's more of a low key guy but has been and is a great leader and he's been able to perform without much talent at all around him on the defensive side of the ball most of his career. Its a close call but the durability is the main reason i take Fletcher.

 

Ray Lewis has 2 years on London Fletcher.

[BroadcastinMayne 2]

Ray Lewis has 2 years on London Fletcher.

True but when you compare games started from Lewis and Fletcher through out there Career Fletcher has RARLEY missed a game, pratically straight 16s across that statistic and for Lewis there are more non 16 starts through out the years than there are all 16 starts. Even with an extra 2 years Lewis only has 4 more starts than Fletcher, he's more durable. If London plays this season and the next all 16 games, he has a really good chance of having better career stats than the ones you had mentioned. Although the trophies, you can't beat that and the piece on Urlacher saying if he had to choose between him or Lewis thats very intresting. Just show how much class Urlacher has most reapect. But i still take London.

[Omerta+ 1,206]

Ray still has more consecutive starts then london so there is that.

[Chiefer 8]

Ray Lewis, really isn't that hard either.

[Favre4Ever+ 4,476]

Ray still has more consecutive starts then london so there is that.

 

What time frame are you looking at? London Fletcher has one of the longest streaks in NFL history.

[.AirMcNair. 1,232]

...

 

This is a real conversation?

 

Lewis is in an entirely different league than both Fletcher and Urlacher. And Fletcher has went from underrated to EXTREMELY overrated. He's not in either Lewis or Urlacher's league. He's good, and at one point in his career was often overlooked..but he's not a HOF caliber MLB like Lewis or Urlacher.

 

Ray Lewis is like the Joe Montana of MLBs. Urlacher is more like the Roger Staubach. You wouldn't complain about either one, but you'd have to be a complete idiot to take Staubach over Montana.

[Omerta+ 1,206]

What time frame are you looking at? London Fletcher has one of the longest streaks in NFL history.

 

Of games played yes, he stands well over 225, as for games started he has less than 200.

[Favre4Ever+ 4,476]

Of games played yes, he stands well over 225, as for games started he has less than 200.

 

195... Which is close-ish to Top 10 in NFL history. I don't see Ray Ray on that list. But maybe he is somewhere in between.

 

What is Ray's consecutive starts mark?

[moocao 10]

In before deer antler spray.

[Omerta+ 1,206]

Sorry meant 200.

[Omerta+ 1,206]

In before deer antler spray.

 

That is relevant ?

[Favre4Ever+ 4,476]

According to his NFL profile, Ray never started more than 3 full 16 game seasons consecutively and in full. You are most likely looking at total starts.

[Omerta+ 1,206]

According to his NFL profile, Ray never started more than 3 full 16 game seasons consecutively and in full. You are most likely looking at total starts.

 

This is probably true.

 

Either way it does not change my assertion. Ray is still on a whole other level than London Fletcher.

[Favre4Ever+ 4,476]

London Fletcher is pretty awesome... and generally underrated in the scope of NFL History -- but I would tend to agree. Although it isn't because Ray has started more games than London has.

[Omerta+ 1,206]

Ok so I got done with all the bullshit going on. Yes, I was wrong, London has has more consecutive starts.

 

Ray is just flat out better though. He is the best ILB to have ever played.

[Favre4Ever+ 4,476]

The great thing about Ray is that he brings/brought a lot more to the field than just great play. He was a leader and a motivator (especially motivating when using a knife). I have made fun of his stupid antics, especially in recent years, because it is just so over the top that sometimes I figure he belongs on broadway. Just seems kind of fake. But you can't deny the results it has produced.

 

Ngata, knowing the Ravens and Lewis like you do, maybe you could elaborate on the Hall of Fame LB outside of the numbers a bit more.

[BwareDWare94 723]

I'm not even going to dignify the question with the obvious answer. Wow.

[Favre4Ever+ 4,476]

I'm not even going to dignify the question with the obvious answer. Wow.

 

Then why respond at all I am sure there is something you could add that hasn't been said already about Ray or the others.

 

Talk about Urlacher, nobody has really given his career justice yet. Rank the 3. Even though your 1 is clear cut, who do you take at #2 and why is he over #3?

 

Mine:

 

1. Lewis

2. Fletcher

3. Urlacher

 

Urlacher's HOF bid should be an interesting one. He deserves to be there, you would think, but 1st ballot is going to be almost impossible going against Ray Lewis. Could 2 MLB be inducted the same year? Maybe, but I find it doubtful.

[AL_Royalty 489]

If this is one of those "if they're healthy and you're getting them as a rookie" things, then yeah the obvious answer is obvious. If it's a "which shell of a MLB would you take today" thing, then it gets a little more tricky.

 

Urlacher is clearly done, so if it's a RIGHT NOW question, he's the first man out. After that, the Ravens played fine without Ray Ray as of late, and he's clearly not the same player he used to be. Fletcher is probably the one I would take ATM, just because I think he brings more to the table with possibly a little more left in the tank and less history of injury.

[Omerta+ 1,206]

Ngata, knowing the Ravens and Lewis like you do, maybe you could elaborate on the Hall of Fame LB outside of the numbers a bit more.

 

I have thought about this. What will Ray's legacy be ? It will almost always go back to a double murder. I will speak on this sparingly. The two men that were actually charged with murder were absolved of any wrong doing because no evidence could be found. Second, The prosecutor admittited to overcharging him with every intention of copping a plea so they could guarantee his cooperation and almost sure acceptance of the deal. Third, the people who were murdered that night were not your average citizens they were both convicted multiple times for violent offenses and have lived in jail. Ray on the other hand had no priors, so really who instigated what ? Is it more likely a guy going to the SB who is a multi millionaire going to start someting with street thugs with everything to lose ? Or would it be the other way around with them trying to get money out of Ray ? Now I dont know who was there and who wasnt so it is all speculation on my part. All of the above are facts though except for the last questions. Now with his white suit. People will question where it is at. Fair question. Now lets start with this. There is no evidence of any white suit anywhere other than eyewitness of unscrupulous characters. They siad it was dumped in a fast food restaraunt. Well the police checked all of them within a an hours drive THAT NIGHT and nothing turned up. So that is a bit hokey. Even if you are the trash boy making the 4 dollars an hour minimum back then and you found somthing new outlets would pay handsomely for you would keep it and say nothing ?

 

Ok with that behind us. People talk about QB's being clutch I can think of 3 games Ray won right off the bat in recent memory. The overtime game against the bills where he stripped the ball carrier and put us in FG range. The infamous Darren sproles tackle on 4th down against the chargers. And the playoff game against Houston where they were driving and threw a screen to Foster and Ray slashed in and made the play. Had that drive extended that was game over. It is easy for QB's to be clutch like that but for a defender to do it time and time again was impressive.

 

As to his pregame theatrics. It was not for him in my opinion. He did that for the team around him. Rookies come in and talk about getting that experience with Ray. Rays squirrel dance in pre-game is the same thing. Harbs tried to stop it when he got here and they talked about it and Ray said I will stop, but first just watch it. It was for the fans. All of us loved seeing it and many people who did not like the team still watched. Now I realize at some points it became just a what the fuck kind of deal. I can understand that because there were times where I looked at my TV and then turned and said, "What the fuck did he just say?" That said the effect on the defense was undeniable. EVERYBODY on defense and most dudes on offense went to those pregame speeches and even Flacco who might be the only guy with less emotion than Caldwell was "getting up" for the game. So I dont think it was for him or personal glory I think he did it for the team. His effect was evident this year. We were getting our asses handed to us left and right. Ray comes back and says it is his last ride and dudes start playing out of their minds and well above their own abilities. It was insane to watch.

 

His understanding of the game was incredible. It was apparent to most people he lost his legs about 5 years ago and the honest truth is he was still pretty good 3 years ago. Then his legs just COMPLETELY went. His pre snap diagnoses of plays were amazing as well. This was most evident between years 8 and 12 imo. He was so savvy but still had the speed to be an incredible player. After that his legs got him there sometimes and then sometimes they didnt. Towards the end he had to be clean because most lineman were faster than he was. Watching him and the colts was pretty impressive. Peyton would do some audibles and then do some dummy audibles and Ray KNEW which ones were dummys and which ones were not it was one of the best chess games to watch.

 

Then his off the field stuff has been well documented. Like taking a paralyzed girl to prom because that was her favorite player. Handing out turkeys and presents to low income kids at thanksgiving and christmas. Buying shoes, school supplies, and even donating a lot of money to Baltimore schools to keep teachers paid, new books, and better sports equipment. He worked with cops on doing a new conditioning program. He stayed late on a lot of autograph events until everybody left, one time staying until past 3 in the morning.

 

Say what you want about they guy but he was the smartest defender in the league and his passion for the game is unmatched. And the dude could hit. I personally loved the guy and his legacy will always be marred by people who cant/wont agree with how I think things happened in Atlanta which is their business, but others will see it as I do and think he was involved in unsavory dudes but committed non crimes other than trying to keep some of his entourage out of jail. I will remember him as the greatest football player I have ever seen. Megatron, AP. and Watt are quickly ascending and I love all the dudes and by the time they retire they may be my favorites but they all will have to exhibit all of the qualities Ray had and be dominant. That said Ray did what he did for 17 years, that is fucking incredible.

[UKColt13 2]

I gotta go with Ray Lewis. I'm not a big fan of his. But he is a workhorse with an endless motor. And he brings unprecedented leadership and motivation skills to the Defense. He automatically makes any defense better.