How does your team's roster stack up?

[RazorStar 4,025]

Fans who watched Woodyard a lot could tell he was an excellent linebacker on passing downs. he really stepped his game up last year though. Julius Thomas doesn't have me too fussed, he's never lived up to the potential he was supposed to have. For every would be star TE like Antonio Gates and Jimmy Graham, there's a Julius Thomas, who looks just as good coming in, and then isn't.

[KempBolt 498]

Fans who watched Woodyard a lot could tell he was an excellent linebacker on passing downs. he really stepped his game up last year though. Julius Thomas doesn't have me too fussed, he's never lived up to the potential he was supposed to have. For every would be star TE like Antonio Gates and Jimmy Graham, there's a Julius Thomas, who looks just as good coming in, and then isn't.

 

You don't think it's too soon to call it on Thomas? I can't remember- did he play football at Portland State or was it just basketball?

[RazorStar 4,025]

He's never been able to get past the guys on the roster, or his contemporary Virgil Green. I think if he had anything to show, he'd have a role on the offense by now.

[Dutch 874]

 

RB: LeSean McCoy- Premier RB in the league.

 

WR: DeSean Jackson- One of the biggest deep threats in the league. No one has averaged more yards per catch than him in the last 5 years. Also a special teams threat.

 

LT: Jason Peters- Was the best LT in football pre-injury. With injured players they are still top players until proven otherwise in my book.

 

LG: Evan Mathis: Extremely underrated. He has been the best guard for the past two seasons.

 

RDE: Trent Cole- He had a somewhat off year but I would still consider him above average. This season will determine a lot.

 

LDE: Brandon Graham- We don't have a lot of tape to make a fair judgement, but from his limited opportunities last year, he performed at a extremely higher rate than an average player. In that time frame, he destroyed in QB pressures and was extremely disruptive in the backfield. He hasn't had to carry out the production through an entire season yet though so the verdict is still out. I guess this can be a homer pick based off potential.

 

DT: Fletcher Cox- Fletcher had a really good season that flew under the radar. An unsung hero from our defensive line last year. The stats may not show it all but the impact was definitely there.

 

MLB: DeMeco Ryans

 

K: Alex Henery- He's played better then an average kicker the past two years in my opinion.

[KempBolt 498]

I love Brandon Graham. I watched him a lot at Michigan, I really wanted the Chargers to draft him, and I felt really bad when he got hurt. Was happy for him when he started going off last year.

 

That's the kind of comeback I envision/hope for Ingram.

Edited June 14, 2013 by KempBolt

[SolomonGrundy 10]

You don't think it's too soon to call it on Thomas? I can't remember- did he play football at Portland State or was it just basketball?

 

He played one year there.

[SolomonGrundy 10]

He's never been able to get past the guys on the roster, or his contemporary Virgil Green. I think if he had anything to show, he'd have a role on the offense by now.

 

Idk according to Thomas he's felt like he's been dragging his leg around since he hurt his ankle his rookie season. He was tearing it up in practice towards the end of the year last season and he's doing the same right now in mini camp. I don't think he's better than Green though, Green is a top notch blocker and has a lot of potential as a receiver while Thomas only has potential as a receiver. Thomas will probably always be bad at blocking, but that's fine.

[SolomonGrundy 10]

The rating makes sense to me when you consider that, according to them, Wolfe only managed to pressure (hit/hurry/sack) the QB on 4.7% of pass rush attempts.

 

I don't think you can really look at Wolfe just by himself though. He's essentially playing as a 3-4 DE for us so the plays that Wolfe makes show up in Miller's statsheet more than his own. Wolfe played a huge role in Miller putting up 18.5 sacks.

[KempBolt 498]

I don't think you can really look at Wolfe just by himself though. He's essentially playing as a 3-4 DE for us so the plays that Wolfe makes show up in Miller's statsheet more than his own. Wolfe played a huge role in Miller putting up 18.5 sacks.

 

All well and good. I still think he has some growing to do before he's regarded as an "above average" starter. But he was being praised for his pass rushing prowess specifically, so I thought the 4.7% figure was relevant.

[Attyla the Hawk 197]

I'm going to go by unit:

 

1. QB. Statistically, I suspect Wilson is going to look average, but should (again) be in the top 5 in terms of QB rating. Seattle just doesn't throw it frequently enough to rack up gaudy passing numbers.

 

2. RB. Should be NFL elite. Top 5 and maybe top 2. We ran the ball a league high 54% of the time and I don't recall a single game where we passed more than we ran.

 

3. OL. This unit is odd to handicap. As a unit, I'd say they are top 5 to 8. Okung and Unger are pro bowl players at the 2 most important OL positions. There is significant opinion, both with local fans, and national draft pundits, that the rest of the line is garbage. However when you look at the tape, you can see that the scheme really does allow for excellent performance from seemingly substandard talent. How bad can the unit be if we're consistently producing in the run game and are efficient in the passing game?

 

4. WR. Again, statistically, it's a unit that will never produce eye opening results. Harvin probably won't get a 1000 yard season this year either. There likely won't be a single WR who reaches the 70 catch mark this year. It won't be because they can't get open. As a group, I'd say they are 1 through 4 the best in the division, and one of the better in the conference. Lack of targets, and the fact that Wilson spreads the ball out liberally is going to keep the production lower.

 

 

Offensively overall: This is a team that probably should be capable of averaging 26-30 per game, while being able to run or pass equally as needed. It's a team that wants to run more than they pass and will not panic early and bail on the run. But it's a passing attack that has shown the ability to turn it on at will if it needs to climb back into a game. I'm wondering if this year may not be different and Pete seeks to perhaps put a little distance between teams earlier than we did last year.

 

 

5. DL. This was a substandard line last year. Certainly from a pass rush perspective it was awful and without question the worst in our own division. This led to many games getting away from us, including the playoff game in Atlanta. We've added some components this year, and in particular -- we've added Red Bryant's successor. Our 5 tech end is a unique cat -- as it requires a 2 gap capable anchor with good lateral movement. Jesse Williams will man this spot permanently when Red is cut loose. I think he'll be an actual upgrade to Bryant quickly. But the D Line still is searching for a pass rush. We will almost assuredly have interior pass rusher as our #1 need for a third straight year when we hit the draft next May.

 

6. LB. This is a very good unit. Probably between the top 9 to 15. Definitely above average. Our LB corps features speed and more speed. Outside of KJ Wright, every LB on this roster runs sub 4.5. Wright is glacial by comparison but his instincts are such that his reaction time and recognition allow him to play faster.

 

7. DB. This secondary is the best in the NFL without question. Not only is it elite at all 5 starter positions (assuming nickel), but it's at the very least 7 deep and if Simon develops sufficiently through the course of the year, literally 8 deep. Jeremy Lane would be a starter on probably 25 teams in this league. He started some games for us, and replaced Browner during his suspension seamlessly. Thurmond has a severe injury history. But even now, he is considered even by the members of our secondary to be our very best cover corner by a significant margin. The whole unit however falls down like a house of cards if Thomas goes down. His speed/instincts and skill allow us to run a cover 3 as a base cover. We enjoy the luxury of always stacking 8 in the box even when a team goes 3 wide.

 

Defensively overall: This defense could be the elite defense of it's day if it could manage even a slightly better than average pass rush. Not only does it not produce sacks, but it routinely fails to provide any measurable pocket collapse. This secondary and LB corps are so quick, and with such excellent ball skills -- that if we could just manage to force a few early throws, we could capitalize on those mistakes for many more turnovers and certainly for much better 3rd down performance. We weren't bad at those either last year -- but it was maddening to think what a little rush quality could provide for this defense. Lack of pass rush with our front 4 is keeping the defense from realizing it's potential. Usually, it's rarely the case, but in this instance -- Seattle is truly one player away from putting together a Ravens/Bucs dominant defense. Cincy better not let Atkins hit the market because we won't be outbid for him.

[Crash 105]

Will give this a shot for my Broncos:

 

QB Manning - Yes

RB Ball - TBD (no until proven otherwise)

TE Tamme - No

LT Clady - Yes

LG Beadles - Yes

C Walton - No

RG Vasquez - Yes

RT - Franklin - Yes

WR - D Thomas - Yes

WR - Decker - Yes

WR - Welker - Yes

 

LDE Wolfe - Yes

DT - Pot Roast - ehhh depends on the day.

DT - Vickerson - Average

RDE - Ayers - No (I think this year changes that to a yes though)

LB - Miller - Yes

LB - Woodyard - YEs

MLB - Irving - No (1st year starter)

LCB - Bailey - Yes

RCB - DRC - No

NCB - Harris - Yes

FS - Moore - Yes

SS - Adams - no

 

ST - Holliday - Yes

Agreed except you need to go and rewatch Walton last year, easily our second best lineman. Walton gets a lot of the blame of beadles mistakes that's why we have continued to pick up guard prospects and zero centers. There is a reason Walton was grading out as the number 1 center before his injury. Also I believe pot roast was a above average NT under JDR in jax so I expect him to be back at that level otherwise agree. Also I think DRC has been a elite cb but has been playing below his talent level the last couple years, IF JDR gets him back to playing at his top 10 talent we easily have the best cb group in the league

Edited June 14, 2013 by Crash

[Crash 105]

I'll take your word on it for Moore and Woodyard. I know they played well, but can't claim to have paid enough attention to know just how well.

 

I understand that Wolfe was 2nd in sacks among rookies, but I still don't think his overall performance at DE was better than average. And being average as a rookie is a feat- I'm sure he'll improve. But I would argue that his 2012 season was not worthy of this list. If you want to talk about PFF, this is from their rookie recap of Wolfe:

 

"Despite Wolfe’s six sacks, he graded at -24.5 as a pass rusher as he totaled only 25 total pressures on 530 pass rush attempts. Similar to Cameron Jordan with the New Orleans Saints, Wolfe may be miscast as a 4-3 defensive end as his pass rushing is sub-par compared to his peers"

Wolfes rookie season matched exactly what JJ watts rookie season was. That assessment is kinda funny because wolfes responsibilities are the same as a 3-4 DE not a 4-3 end. This guy is JDR prodigy and his hand picked player from last years draft, he's going to ball this year

[Crash 105]

Fans who watched Woodyard a lot could tell he was an excellent linebacker on passing downs. he really stepped his game up last year though. Julius Thomas doesn't have me too fussed, he's never lived up to the potential he was supposed to have. For every would be star TE like Antonio Gates and Jimmy Graham, there's a Julius Thomas, who looks just as good coming in, and then isn't.

he played 1 year of college football then got injured his rookie year. He is balling out with the first team offense this offseason so don't be surprised if he is the starter come September 5th

[KempBolt 498]

Wolfes rookie season matched exactly what JJ watts rookie season was. That assessment is kinda funny because wolfes responsibilities are the same as a 3-4 DE not a 4-3 end. This guy is JDR prodigy and his hand picked player from last years draft, he's going to ball this year

 

Crash... I have to say I'm not surprised that you think almost every player on the Broncos deserves to make the list. But comparing Wolfe to Watt is silly. Stats look similar? They played different positions. You think Watt was only getting pressure on the QB 4.7% of the time as a rookie? I don't. I think Wolfe is a good LE/UT and should get better, but J.J. Watt? Anyone who watched Watt play in 2011 knows that isn't true.

[Dutch 874]

Also I think DRC has been a elite cb but has been playing below his talent level the last couple years,

 

If he has been playing below his talent level, how has he been playing at an elite level?

[.AirMcNair. 1,232]

I absolutely love Alterraun Verner. I think hes gonna be one of the best CBs in the league in a year or two. Don't sleep on that kid.

 

The problem with Verner is his speed. He's got great technique, and is as good as you can really ask for when playing zone, but he can't offer the dominant man to man skills that the best CBs in the game today have. When playing man against any halfway decent receiver n regards to speed, he has to play like 10 yards off or have safety help over the top(which then isn't really man to man anyway).

 

He's gonna have a very long career in this league, IMO, but as a top 10 or so CB? I can't ever see him doing that due to his speed limitations.

[Milla4Prez63 678]

I'll just do our starting lineup because I'm bored.

 

QB Josh Freeman - No

HB Doug Martin - Yes

FB Erik Lorig - Idk? Who cares?

WR Vincent Jackson - Yes

WR Mike Williams - No, but solid

TE Luke Stocker - Hell no

LT Donald Penn - Yes, but barely

LG Carl Nicks - Yes

C Jeremy Zuttah - No

RG Davin Joseph - Yes

RT Demar Dotson - No

 

RDE Adrian Clayborn - No

DT Gerald McCoy - Yes

DT Akeem Spence - No

LDE Da'Quan Bowers - No

OLB Lavonte David - Yes

MLB Mason Foster Maybe

OLB ??? - Whoever wins is a no

CB Darrelle Revis - Yes

CB Eric Wright - No

SS Mark Barron - No

FS Dashon Goldson - Yes

[badgers 380]

Yes = Above league average

No = Below league average

 

QB: Yes

RB: No

FB: Yes (Kuhn is overrated but is still a good FB)

WR: Yes (as a group). No (individually)

TE: Maybe

T: Maybe (depending on whoever's opposite Bulaga)

G: Yes (for both)

C: No

 

DT: Iffy

DE: Iffy

OLB: Yes

ILB: No

CB: Yes (as a group. Individually they're all over the place).

S: Yes (Burnett) No (whoever else).

 

K: Iffy (when he's having a good year Crosby is great. When he's not... blindfolds, everybody)

P: Yes

PR/KR: Idk who the hell is going to be doing it so I'll leave it at that

 

I think our secondary is better than they get credit for. Vastly improved last year and will hopefully continue to do so.

 

I put Iffy for the entire DL because aside from Raji we have nobody who has proven anything (aside from Pickett who's on the downswing of his career). It's too early to call it and we can't say for sure how good they'll be.

Edited June 15, 2013 by badgers

[Omerta+ 1,206]

Torrey Smith? Or maybe Michael Huff?

 

As jazzed as I am about Huff, he has to show me first. I think he is going to be very good, but he has yet to produce for Baltimore.

 

As far as Smith it depends on how you look at it. I can think of 16 other receivers I would rather have RIGHT NOW. Now as far as number 2 receivers goes he is near the top.

[Crash 105]

Crash... I have to say I'm not surprised that you think almost every player on the Broncos deserves to make the list. But comparing Wolfe to Watt is silly. Stats look similar? They played different positions. You think Watt was only getting pressure on the QB 4.7% of the time as a rookie? I don't. I think Wolfe is a good LE/UT and should get better, but J.J. Watt? Anyone who watched Watt play in 2011 knows that isn't true.

First I do think Denver has questions, I don't think beadles is good, our DT have questions whether they can live up to their billing and I also think Adams isn't very good but the only reason no one wants to compare Wolfe to JJ watt is because of watts second season but that is ignoring the obvious that statistically they had the same rookie season. If you ask Von miller who also says if you watched the tape he took over 4 sacks from Wolfe which would've put him at 10 sacks but that's in the past.

 

They are obviously comparable Wolfe as a rookie is 6'5 300lbs recorded 40 tackles, 6 sacks and 2 pass defensed. Watt as a rookie was 6'5 288lbs recorded 56 tackles 5.5 sacks and 4 pass defensed. Now I'm obviously not expecting 20 sacks from Wolfe but a 10 sack season is easy to expect

[Crash 105]

If he has been playing below his talent level, how has he been playing at an elite level?

Smh when he was apart of a winning team in Arizona with Kurt Warner he was a top 10-15 corner which I would call a elite level. It's easy to slouch when you get stuck on a loser team

[KempBolt 498]

First I do think Denver has questions, I don't think beadles is good, our DT have questions whether they can live up to their billing and I also think Adams isn't very good but the only reason no one wants to compare Wolfe to JJ watt is because of watts second season but that is ignoring the obvious that statistically they had the same rookie season. If you ask Von miller who also says if you watched the tape he took over 4 sacks from Wolfe which would've put him at 10 sacks but that's in the past.

 

They are obviously comparable Wolfe as a rookie is 6'5 300lbs recorded 40 tackles, 6 sacks and 2 pass defensed. Watt as a rookie was 6'5 288lbs recorded 56 tackles 5.5 sacks and 4 pass defensed. Now I'm obviously not expecting 20 sacks from Wolfe but a 10 sack season is easy to expect

 

Like I said, the stats don't do much for me. They play different positions. And Watt, especially in the 2nd half of 2011, was getting pressure consistently even when he wasn't getting the sack. He then went on a tear in the playoffs for 3.5 sacks in 2 games.

 

Wolfe, on the other hand, generally got stone walled as a pass rusher. Yes he got those sacks, but he only generated pressure 4.7% of the time. And he was playing 4-3 DE. And my lasting memory of him will be getting completely handled by the Ravens' single blocks.

 

There's no comparison.

[KempBolt 498]

Smh when he was apart of a winning team in Arizona with Kurt Warner he was a top 10-15 corner which I would call a elite level. It's easy to slouch when you get stuck on a loser team

 

So his poor play is just his choice? Tell me then, why did he choose to slouch when he first got to Philly and they were the SB bound "dream team?"

[Omerta+ 1,206]

Isnt it obvious. It is part of his master plan to waste X amount of years of his productive career in a diabolical scheme to get paid less because he hates money.

 

Or it could be that Crash has finally shaken his head so much his brain fell out, or he is just making shit up. Whichever one you want to take.

[CampinWithaMissingPerson 2,025]

We're below average. No in-depth analyzing needed.