Which Coach is on the hotseat?

[Dutch 874]

Which coach do you think most likely will be fired if they have another bad season or not good enough season?



Jason Garrett: 2010, 21-19 .525, Zero play off berths

Marvin Lewis: 2003, 79-80-1 .497, Two AFC North Crowns, 4 play off berths

Rex Ryan: 2009, 34-30 .531, Two playoff berth

Jim Schwartz: 2009, 22-42 .344, One playoff berth

Gary Kubiak: 2006, 59-53 .527, Two AFC South Crowns, Two playoff berths

Mike Munchak: 2011, 15-17 .469, Zero playoff berths

Ron Rivera: 2011, 13-19, .406, Zero playoff berths


I believe a few of those guys will get fired. So, my post will be about who needs to get fired if they don't do well and my choice is Marvin Lewis. He is the longest tenured coach on that list and has done next to nothing besides in the last few years. I think the Bengals have a pretty young and solid team that can do some damage. If they go one and done in the play offs again or don't get far, I think he needs to go. The team is still young. Get a new coaching regime in there while they still have some talented players. Lewis has a horrible resume. I really don't know how he kept his job for so long.

I think Schwartz needs to go as well if they underachieve again so they can do some real damage with arguably the most physically dominant specimen at WR of all time.

Edited October 1, 2013 by dutchff7

[SteVo+ 3,702]

I'd say everyone on this poll is fired if their team has a bad year except Kubiak, and I'd throw in Ron Rivera into the poll as well.

[Phins4life 271]

I went with Ryan in a toss up between him and Lewis. Basically it boiled down to which I consider more fatal...talking trash year after year and never delivering, or needing to up the ante from the success of recent years. I went with the former. I think Lewis has a solid team to work with this year. He certainly needs to deliver something. Ryan honestly shouldn't even be in the conversation at this point because he should have been fired last year.

[Dutch 874]

I'd say everyone on this poll is fired if their team has a bad year except Kubiak, and I'd throw in Ron Rivera into the poll as well.

 

I meant to put Rivera up there and wind up forgetting x.x. Thanks

[NaTaS+ 958]

Marvin Lewis is constantly on the hot seat and he for little reason other than consistency. He has an almost .500 record, won the divisional crown twice in one of the toughest divisions in football and 4 playoff appearances

 

I say it has to be Ron Rivera or Rex Ryan - the double R's.

Edited July 3, 2013 by NaTaS

[Bang 12]

I voted for Garrett, but changed my mind. He's a good puppet, and Jerry likes that.

 

~Bang

[Bucman 891]

Mike Munchak has to be at the top, they went out and spent a load of money in FA and he probably should have been canned this offseason.

[Dutch 874]

Marvin Lewis is constantly on the hot seat and he for little reason other than consistency. He has an almost .500 record, won the divisional crown twice in one of the toughest divisions in football and 4 playoff appearances

 

I say it has to be Ron Rivera or Rex Ryan - the double R's.

 

Other then consistency? Consistency is important isn't it? He has a .497 winning percentage out of 160 games. That's not good. Regardless of it being a tough division, it's either you get the job done or you don't. He's had about a decade to do it. He has a good team and if he can't do anything with it, he needs to go. Every coach runs its course. He's catching up to Andy Reid type years and hasn't had no where near as much success*.

[DonovanMcnabb for H.O.F 2,241]

Shwartz is on his way out, he's well aware of this which is why they are going all out this off season.

[East495 55]

Another last place finish and its goodbye Schwartz!

Edited July 3, 2013 by East495

[Phins4life 271]

Other then consistency? Consistency is important isn't it? He has a .497 winning percentage out of 160 games. That's not good. Regardless of it being a tough division, it's either you get the job done or you don't. He's had about a decade to do it. He has a good team and if he can't do anything with it, he needs to go. Every coach runs its course. He's catching up to Andy Reid type years and hasn't had no where near as much success*.

 

But within that decade he's only just recently begun to have a good team to work with(or at least one I would qualify as having real winning potential). I think if anything he and Kubiak share that commonality...leadership having enough faith to stick it out with them and the fans finally seeing some fruit from that labor.

[Turry 755]

Ya Mike Brown is an awful owner and a few of his players over the years including Dillion and Perkins have "pointed it out". Rex Ryan is more than gone. The new GM will bring in somebody who he wants unless the jets do something substantial.

[Dutch 874]

But within that decade he's only just recently begun to have a good team to work with(or at least one I would qualify as having real winning potential). I think if anything he and Kubiak share that commonality...leadership having enough faith to stick it out with them and the fans finally seeing some fruit from that labor.

 

Lewis has had some pretty good teams. Teams good enough to warrant at least one play off win. Carson Palmer was on fire in 05. In 09, their defense was out of this world and went undefeated in the AFC North. The Bengals have been good for two years now; a good enough team to win some play off games and they have yet to deliver that. Faith and leadership doesn't warrant for anything if you're not winning games. Marvin is 0-4 in the play offs. They have a team that is talented enough to win some ball games. They also did a good job in the draft and I think that makes them a better football team (in my opinion). If he doesn't get them far into the play offs, I think they need a regime change. One win may not even be enough. If he can't win with that talented football team, the Bengals need to find someone that can.

[KempBolt 498]

I think it's Munchak. He has an erratic owner who just spent a ton of money to try and buy the division. That almost never works, and when it doesn't the coach will be scapegoated.

[Phins4life 271]

Lewis has had some pretty good teams. Teams good enough to warrant at least one play off win. Carson Palmer was on fire in 05. In 09, their defense was out of this world and went undefeated in the AFC North. The Bengals have been good for two years now; a good enough team to win some play off games and they have yet to deliver that. Faith and leadership doesn't warrant for anything if you're not winning games. Marvin is 0-4 in the play offs. They have a team that is talented enough to win some ball games. They also did a good job in the draft and I think that makes them a better football team (in my opinion). If he doesn't get them far into the play offs, I think they need a regime change. One win may not even be enough. If he can't win with that talented football team, the Bengals need to find someone that can.

 

Unfortunately for Palmer, he was also dealing with stronger (and younger) Steelers and Ravens teams (well, not in 2005 in the Ravens case). You and I can both agree that even the best passing game can be meaningless without support in other areas. I don't think there were enough pieces on that team to warrant accusations of falling short. It had been their first appearance in over a decade. They were relatively unfamiliar with the winning mentality at that time.

 

Agreed on the 2009 defense, but again I see this as an example of one side being stronger than the other and not enough to balance the discrepancies. Either way, the loss to the Jets was somewhat unexpected and disappointing. And considering their last 2 playoff losses have been to a rising power in the Texans, I think everything needs to be taken in stride. They've had their share of bad luck in their playoff match-ups, and Lewis still deserves credit in being the first guy to take this team to the playoffs since 1990...not once, but 4 times.

 

I think they are finally finding a niche with improving young talent, and with the Steelers aging and the Ravens having so many question marks, I agree that this may indeed be the year to claim the AFCN and win at least one playoff game to indicate progress. But if they make the playoffs yet again and lose, I still don't think that warrants an exit. If they did make it, it would mark the first time in team history they had been to 3 consecutive playoffs. If consistency is one of the important gauges, then it would indicate that Lewis was finally finding some. Wrong time to drop the axe in that case.

Edited July 3, 2013 by Phins4life

[Dutch 874]

Unfortunately for Palmer, he was also dealing with stronger (and younger) Steelers and Ravens teams (well, not in 2005 in the Ravens case). You and I can both agree that even the best passing game can be meaningless without support in other areas. I don't think there were enough pieces on that team to warrant accusations of falling short. It had been their first appearance in over a decade. They were relatively unfamiliar with the winning mentality at that time.

 

Agreed on the 2009 defense, but again I see this as an example of one side being stronger than the other and not enough to balance the discrepancies. Either way, the loss to the Jets was somewhat unexpected and disappointing. And considering their last 2 playoff losses have been to a rising power in the Texans, I think everything needs to be taken in stride. They've had their share of bad luck in their playoff match-ups, and Lewis still deserves credit in being the first guy to take this team to the playoffs since 1990...not once, but 4 times.

 

I think they are finally finding a niche with improving young talent, and with the Steelers aging and the Ravens having so many question marks, I agree that this may indeed be the year to claim the AFCN and win at least one playoff game to indicate progress. But if they make the playoffs yet again and lose, I still don't think that warrants an exit. If they did make it, it would mark the first time in team history they had been to 3 consecutive playoffs. If consistency is one of the important gauges, then it would indicate that Lewis was finally finding some. Wrong time to drop the axe in that case.

 

Good post and I can respect that. But consistency with no progress is just not good enough. Remember, you're talking to an Eagles fan that went through 4 devastating NFC Championship losses (three in a row) and then a Superbowl loss. We had a coach for 14 years that was pretty consistent at winning for a while at a high level but could never quite break through the barrier and people were calling for his head. Then you turn around to a Marvin Lewis that has been the Head Coach for 10 years and hasn't had not one bit of success and that's acceptable?

 

We both agree that the Bengals do have a good team; probably the best well rounded team that he's ever had. They've been good enough to win (at least one play off game) for two years now. So if he fails again he should get a pass because he's consistent in getting to the play offs but not winning? The players ages and their expiring contracts won't wait for him to get better. You think the fans and owner wants to hear that the only reason they are losing is because the Texans are a rising team? (and they've been shown up) That just doesn't cut it. You can't make exceptions for teams in the play offs for the reason why you're not winning football games. It comes to a point in time when anything less then winning just isn't good enough. After 10 years and no play off wins, I think it's just about that time if he doesn't do anything significant this year.

Edited July 3, 2013 by dutchff7

[DavethePanther 37]

RIVERA

 

I was not a fan of bringing Rivera back. Thought his decision making was terrible and he couldn't

handle the pressure. I think his decision were decision of not to lose instead of decisions to win.

 

That said, I am all onboard this season because he is our coach and management decided he was good enough to keep.

 

He has the tools offensively and defensively. Especially on the defense. There is NO reason this defense (barring injury) should not be Top 5. Offensively top 10.

 

I know the NFC South is a beast division and anyone can win it. He needs to put his big boy britches on and stand up to Smith and Payton. Go 4-2 in the division, we'll make the playoffs.

[Phins4life 271]

Good post and I can respect that. But consistency with no progress is just not good enough. Remember, you're talking to an Eagles fan that went through 4 devastating NFC Championship losses (three in a row) and then a Superbowl loss. We had a coach for 14 years that was pretty consistent at winning for a while at a high level but could never quite break through the barrier and people were calling for his head. Then you turn around to a Marvin Lewis that has been the Head Coach for 10 years and hasn't had not one bit of success and that's acceptable?

 

We both agree that the Bengals do have a good team; probably the best well rounded team that he's ever had. They've been good enough to win (at least one play off game) for two years now. So if he fails again he should get a pass because he's consistent in getting to the play offs but not winning? The players ages and their expiring contracts won't wait for him to get better. You think the fans and owner wants to hear that the only reason they are losing is because the Texans are a rising team? (and they've been shown up) That just doesn't cut it. You can't make exceptions for teams in the play offs for the reason why you're not winning football games. It comes to a point in time when anything less then winning just isn't good enough. After 10 years and no play off wins, I think it's just about that time if he doesn't do anything significant this year.

 

I'm just saying that when you look at the broad scope of his achievements as the Bengals coach, we've seen pretty linear progress...3 appearances in 4 years...in a division that regularly contributes more than one playoff team. Like I said, 3 consecutive playoff appearances (win or lose) would be historic for this franchise. I hardly think it's justified to remove him. I understand the length of his tenure, but when looking at the overall amount of talent he's had to work with, I think we can both agree the majority of it has been accumulated in the latter half. So that is probably where the majority of focus and criticism should lie.

 

And yes, I think the fact that their recent losses have been to Houston should reduce the negative weight of those losses. That's some rough shit for a team nearly on the cusp of success, but not necessarily quite there. Houston is, in my opinion, not all that far ahead of Cincy on the "winning potential" curve in the big scheme of things, but that additional skill is all it really takes in crunch time. I'm aware it can be argued that bigger underdogs have overcome bigger odds, but take my points for what they're worth.

 

Rex Ryan watched consecutive Super Bowl appearances slip through his grasp, and since then they have done nothing but unravel. We haven't really seen the same effect in Cincy...yet. Ryan fits the profile better...previously successful coach suddenly stops seeing that level of success, and is subsequently fired. Although usually involving former SB winners/runner-ups(Reid, Smith, Fox, etc.). Lewis hasn't really stopped seeing success just yet, in my opinion, until it can be definitively proven that progress has halted and Wild Card births and losses are all they can muster, especially in this "carpe diem" scenario that we see in the AFCN.

[lordnate 6]

Jim Schwartz should be on the hot seat. Out of all of the coaches on that list, he has the worst record. Last year, with a 4-12 season with stars like Megatron, Stafford, and Suh, is just terrible. Another season like that and he should be gone. The only saving grace I'll give him, is that the Lions are used to losing and that might allow them to give him a pass.

 

Rex Ryan is next on the hot seat, though I had a hard time deciding between him and Schwartz. Ryan actually has decent success compared to the other coaches on this list, but he's got such a big mouth he talks himself into trouble.

 

Gary Kubiak and Marvin Lewis really haven't done enough to deserve to get fired. They are on the hot seat because they just haven't done anything to make their teams glad they hired them. At some point, these coaches are going to have to accomplish something great or lose their jobs.

 

I understand why Mike Munchak and Ron Rivera are on this list due to lack of success, but they are the least tenured coaches on the list as well. I could see them getting a little more time to build a team.

 

Jason Garrett is the safest coach on this list. He probably shouldn't be, but Jerry Jones hates to admit mistakes and he'll give Garrett every opportunity to succeed. Jason will coach through 2014, but he could get fired after the 2014 season as 2015 is when I believe the Cowboys will begin the rebuilding process. Not because they want to, Jerry always wants to win now, but because of salary cap mismanagement, they won't have a choice.

[Dutch 874]

I'm just saying that when you look at the broad scope of his achievements as the Bengals coach, we've seen pretty linear progress...3 appearances in 4 years...in a division that regularly contributes more than one playoff team. Like I said, 3 consecutive playoff appearances (win or lose) would be historic for this franchise. I hardly think it's justified to remove him. I understand the length of his tenure, but when looking at the overall amount of talent he's had to work with, I think we can both agree the majority of it has been accumulated in the latter half. So that is probably where the majority of focus and criticism should lie.

 

And yes, I think the fact that their recent losses have been to Houston should reduce the negative weight of those losses. That's some rough shit for a team nearly on the cusp of success, but not necessarily quite there. Houston is, in my opinion, not all that far ahead of Cincy on the "winning potential" curve in the big scheme of things, but that additional skill is all it really takes in crunch time. I'm aware it can be argued that bigger underdogs have overcome bigger odds, but take my points for what they're worth.

 

Rex Ryan watched consecutive Super Bowl appearances slip through his grasp, and since then they have done nothing but unravel. We haven't really seen the same effect in Cincy...yet. Ryan fits the profile better...previously successful coach suddenly stops seeing that level of success, and is subsequently fired. Although usually involving former SB winners/runner-ups(Reid, Smith, Fox, etc.). Lewis hasn't really stopped seeing success just yet, in my opinion, until it can be definitively proven that progress has halted and Wild Card births and losses are all they can muster, especially in this "carpe diem" scenario that we see in the AFCN.

 

It appears we just disagree with each other my friend. Apparently it seems we just have different opinions of what success is. It seems I hold success to a way higher standard than you and hold higher expectations of the word. You consider 3 consecutive play off appearances as historic regardless if they lose or not. It might be statistically but losing in the first round all three times is far from praiseworthy; especially considering the fact that they have a team that is good enough to win some games.

 

I think you pretty much countered your own second paragraph with what's in bold. You can't hold teams to exceptions when it comes to winning games. Underdogs come out on top all the time. The team with the better game plan and executes better wins the game. All you have to do is be better than the other team on that day. Any team can beat any other team on any given day in the NFL. Making team exceptions is lame. Just find a way to win. That's what the good coaches do.

 

You're measuring Lewis's play off appearances as success and said he hasn't stopped seeing it yet. Again, we have different standards of the word success. Getting in isn't good enough. If you don't win any play off games, you're still a regular season football team. Play off wins is what counts. That's when the success really begins. He hasn't progressed since he's been making the play offs and if he doesn't do anything significant this year, I think he needs to go. That team is good enough to win some games in the playoffs and the Bengals need to find someone that can make that happen while the team is still young and talented.

 

I think we will continue to agree to disagree mainly because we hold the meaning of success to different standards. With that being said, I don't think it's much more to discuss on this matter. I guess it's just the Philly fan in me. It's either you win or you don't. Nothing else is acceptable. There is no inbetween.

Edited July 3, 2013 by dutchff7

[Bang 12]

Actually, everyone on that list has a seat that is very warm.

Shelf life for a coach these days is 3 years tops. Produce, or get out.

 

Some guys like Schwartz have been given everything you'd think he would need. Other guys like garret work for an idiot who thinks he's given everything he needs.

And then there's Rex Ryan, who just like all of the Ryans is a blowhard loudmouth, and what we've seen out of him is the best it's going to get.

 

~Bang

[DonovanMcnabb for H.O.F 2,241]

Garrett is the least likely to get fired. I think they'd have to fail in epic proportions for him to lose the Cowboy's job.

[Crash 105]

John fox. If his decisions cost us another Super Bowl berth he may be gone

[KempBolt 498]

John fox. If his decisions cost us another Super Bowl berth he may be gone

 

I didn't realize that it was John Fox's decision to not get any pressure on Joe Flacco all night. Very odd call on his part .

 

Also, I think you meant AFC Championship berth.

[Crash 105]

I didn't realize that it was John Fox's decision to not get any pressure on Joe Flacco all night. Very odd call on his part .

 

Also, I think you meant AFC Championship berth.

We will find out very quickly if the soft decisions that followed our offense was John fox or mike McCoy and if it is fox he may be gone. There is no reason why we shouldn't smoke every team in the AFC this year