Update: Chiefs, Alex Smith do 4-year, $68M extension

[AL_Royalty 489]

 

General manager John Dorsey and coach Andy Reid have expressed confidence in recent days that the Kansas City Chiefs will ultimately reach a long-term contract agreement with quarterback Alex Smith.

 

Those comments seem overly optimistic in light of the lack of progress in negotiations that led the Chiefs to consider the idea of drafting a first-round quarterback earlier this month.

While there is now sentiment that Smith holds all of the cards with no legitimate competition for his starting job, (it's possible) that the Chiefs have leverage of their own in the form of the 2015 franchise tag.

NFL Media Insider Ian Rapoport reported Wednesday, via sources informed of the situation, the club is indeed willing to wield the franchise tag if talks remains remain stagnant.

That decision is nine months away. Much can change in the meantime.

The problem both sides are facing is the same one standing in the way of a new contract between Andy Dalton and the Bengals: There is no second-tier quarterback market in the current NFL landscape.

Smith is pushing to be paid commensurate with Jay Cutler's $18 million annual average. The Chiefs are understandably balking at devoting such a high percentage of their salary cap to a successful game manager with obvious limitations.

If Smith and Dalton want to find out their true value by playing out the 2015 season under the franchise tag and hitting the open market in 2016, we suspect they will be disappointed with the league's reluctance to embrace quarterback purgatory.

All teams with QB contract issues can thank Joe Flacco for the current state of affairs involving QB contract negotiations. It's why the Bears felt it necessary to handcuff themselves to Brandon Marshall's sidekick, it's why the Cowboys (to a lesser extent) were forced to pay Romo as much as they did, and it's why the Alex Smiths of the world are feeling entitled to the kind of money that was previously reserved for true make-all-the-throw franchise QB's.

 

Smith is a better QB than the likes of Flacco or Cutler. I truly believe that. From a strictly talent standpoint, I'd say Romo is better than Smith, but that's another—much longer—discussion. I'd probably still take Smith. For more on this, start a thread.

 

Smith definitely deserves to to get paid, but I don't think he deserves to "get paid," if that makes sense. I'd put him in the 12-14 mil per year range with big incentives for winning the division, winning playoff games, leading in passing categories, etc... If he even sniffs 18-20 mil though, my blood will boil, killing me from the inside out.

 

I just can't see tying the metaphorical knot with a guy who can't stretch the field due to noodle arm syndrome. Smith played admirably down the stretch, and he was nothing short of remarkable in that infamous playoff game. He even put the ball right on Bowe's shoulder down the sideline on 4th and 11 to seemingly put the Chiefs in game winning territory only to watch Bowe make an incomprehensible foot folly.

Smith is over 30 now, and his window for winning is closing. Still, I think a 4-5 year 60 mil contract is certainly fair compensation and has been earned. I'd like to see how the next season plays out, obviously, but unless he suddenly becomes Peyton Manning, he's not worth the "big bucks."

 

What say you?

 

 

[BradyFan81 404]

This is a pretty interesting situation. If Alex Smith does go to Free Agency, he has to be the best QB to be a free agent in... a while. Maybe since Drew Brees coming off the shoulder injury. Most QBs that are even semi decent get locked up long term.

[AL_Royalty 489]

This is a pretty interesting situation. If Alex Smith does go to Free Agency, he has to be the best QB to be a free agent in... a while. Maybe since Drew Brees coming off the shoulder injury. Most QBs that are even semi decent get locked up long term.

I can't really see them letting him walk unless he shits the bed and they have the chance to draft a franchise QB. QB's don't just hit the market every day, like you said. My only fear is that Fat Andy has been drinking his own Cool-Aid and thinks that he can roll with Murray and Daniels and make it work because they're QB's and he's Andy friggin Reid. That could go very, very badly. See: Kevin Lolb

[CampinWithaMissingPerson 2,025]

Yeah If I'm the GM I'd try to lock him up around right where you said, 12-14 per year. That's almost double what he makes now so that's a plus for him, but it's right outside of the top 10 QB averages which is right around where his true value would be (given certain limitations, as well as age compared to some maybe less nuanced QBs who have more potential and time ala age.)

[BJORN 679]

Yeah, I agree with your evaluation on what he deserves, though I'm not sure about him being better than Cutler or Flacco. May come down to preference on that discussion.

 

Under no circumstances, should the Chiefs franchise tag Alex Smith. I feel like you guys are good enough as a team and have a good enough coach to just say fuck it and roll with a rookie in 2015 if need be. That being said, if you can lock him down for a reasonable price...go for it. I wouldn't give in to his unreasonable demands just because some teams were dumb enough to give the "Flacco"s of the world elite money though.

Edited May 28, 2014 by BJORN

[Vin+ 3,121]

 

NFL Network's Ian Rapoport reports contract-year QB Alex Smith is asking the Chiefs for "top-tier" quarterback money in an extension.

Hence the reason contract talks are "going nowhere," according to multiple reports. The Bears recently gave Jay Cutler an annual average of $18.1 million, and Smith is both younger and coming off of a better 2013 season than Cutler, all things considered. The National Football Post's Jason Cole tweeted Wednesday that Smith "wanted a deal above Jay Cutler" in January, and Cole "can't imagine that has changed." The Chiefs would be smart to let Smith play one more season under Andy Reid before breaking the bank to keep him. If Smith takes another big step forward, the franchise tag could come into play.

Source: Ian Rapoport on Twitter

 

 

I don't think he's better than Cutler, but then again I'm like the only person who thinks that Cutler is a good QB.

[DonovanMcnabb for H.O.F 2,241]

Anything over 12 mill is too much.

[AL_Royalty 489]

Yeah, I agree with your evaluation on what he deserves, though I'm not sure about him being better than Cutler or Flacco. May come down to preference on that discussion.

 

Under no circumstances, should the Chiefs franchise tag Alex Smith. I feel like you guys are good enough as a team and have a good enough coach to just say fuck it and roll with a rookie in 2015 if need be. That being said, if you can lock him down for a reasonable price...go for it. I wouldn't give in to his unreasonable demands just because some teams were dumb enough to give the "Flacco"s of the world elite money though.

The reason that I say he's better than those two Is because he doesn't have many OMG bad games. His ceiling is pretty close to theirs when he hits it, but his floor is not in the basement. He doesn't have the rocket arm like those guys, but you're probably not going to see too many 3-4 pick performances from him either.

 

Jay and Joe are one bad, forced throw away from completely imploding and costing the team a win. Alex isn't that guy. He's pretty blah sometimes, but the LULZ don't happen all that often. Plus he excels at spreading the ball around and not just throwing to Brandon Marshall for his entire career. Smith is also more mobile than both if those guys, and he's tougher than at least one of them.

 

I think his future in KC has a lot to do with D-Bowe tbh. If Bowe comes to play this year, watch out. If he doesn't though, it might be a looooong year for Mr. Smith.

[Dutch 874]

Alex Smith isn't better than Joe Flacco... I could possibly see the argument that he's better than Cutler but only because Cutler throws too many picks but Cutler is way more talented than Smith. All Alex Smith does is check down. It's hard to turn the ball over when all you do is check it down. 26.3% of Alex Smiths throws were behind the line of scrimmage. 51.7% of Smiths throws were within 10 yards lol... Smith's throws in the 11-20 yard range drops significantly to only 15.3% attempting only 78 times the ENTIRE season. So that's an average of only 5.2 attempts per game (15 games). Smith's throwing capabilities are very limited and he's being carried by a running game and a good defense. He's a one trick pony that just checks the ball down and doesn't turn the ball over. He's a game manager.

 

With all that said, Smith relatively still has some nice value because the QB position in general is valued and Smith is a starting QB material. He makes good decisions and can drive the ball down the field. Anywhere from 13-15 mil a year is probably a good range from Smith. It will be interesting to see if he tries to break bank. He's in a good situation there in KC and this is probably his best and last chance to try and get a ring at this point in his career. It would be in his best interest to try and get a good and reasonable deal done. Hopefully he doesn't try and chase the money in free agency (even if it's there at this point after QB needy teams drafting QBs) if KC doesn't want to pay him top dollar. I don't see Smith doing well on any other team.

[AL_Royalty 489]

Alex Smith isn't better than Joe Flacco... I could possibly see the argument that he's better than Cutler but only because Cutler throws too many picks but Cutler is way more talented than Smith. All Alex Smith does is check down. It's hard to turn the ball over when all you do is check it down. 26.3% of Alex Smiths throws were behind the line of scrimmage. 51.7% of Smiths throws were within 10 yards lol... Smith's throws in the 11-20 yard range drops significantly to only 15.3% attempting only 78 times the ENTIRE season. So that's an average of only 5.2 attempts per game (15 games). Smith's throwing capabilities are very limited and he's being carried by a running game and a good defense. He's a one trick pony that just checks the ball down and doesn't turn the ball over. He's a game manager.

 

With all that said, Smith relatively still has some nice value because the QB position in general is valued and Smith is a starting QB material. He makes good decisions and can drive the ball down the field. Anywhere from 13-15 mil a year is probably a good range from Smith. It will be interesting to see if he tries to break bank. He's in a good situation there in KC and this is probably his best and last chance to try and get a ring at this point in his career. It would be in his best interest to try and get a good and reasonable deal done. Hopefully he doesn't try and chase the money in free agency (even if it's there at this point after QB needy teams drafting QBs) if KC doesn't want to pay him top dollar. I don't see Smith doing well on any other team.

... And Cutler and Flacco don't benefit from the very same things that Smith has? The bears and ravens haven't had strong defenses and top 5 backs?

 

Just because they throw the ball downfield more often, that doesn't make them better players. It just means that they take more risk. Flacco costs his team ads much as he brings to the table, and Cutler even more so with his inability to stay on the field factored in. How'd Jay and Joe look in the playoffs last season?

[Dutch 874]

... And Cutler and Flacco don't benefit from the very same things that Smith has? The bears and ravens haven't had strong defenses and top 5 backs?

 

Just because they throw the ball downfield more often, that doesn't make them better players. It just means that they take more risk. Flacco costs his team ads much as he brings to the table, and Cutler even more so with his inability to stay on the field factored in. How'd Jay and Joe look in the playoffs last season?

 

Flacco didn't have a great defense the year he won the Superbowl and Cutler has been plagued with one of the worst offensive fronts for about his entire career. It doesn't take much effort to check the ball down. Give me the QB who is more capable of making plays anywhere on the field versus the check down master. Alex Smith limits what you can do offensively. Alex Smith is the type of QB at this stage of his career where you have to really build a system around him because of his limitations. Apparently, there is a formula for some success with Alex and he has shown that through taking care of the ball and making good decisions. But let's not look at the success of the entire team or basic stats and anoint him when the eye test tells the tale; He's a check down master.

Edited May 30, 2014 by Dutch

[AL_Royalty 489]

 

Flacco didn't have a great defense the year he won the Superbowl and Cutler has been plagued with one of the worst offensive fronts for about his entire career. It doesn't take much effort to check the ball down. Give me the QB who is more capable of making plays anywhere on the field versus the check down master. Alex Smith limits what you can do offensively. Alex Smith is the type of QB at this stage of his career where you have to really build a system around him because of his limitations. Apparently, there is a formula for some success with Alex and he has shown that through taking care of the ball and making good decisions. But let's not look at the success of the entire team or basic stats and anoint him when the eye test tells the tale; He's a check down master.

You're right about one thing:the eye test does tell it all. It tells me that one guy is a cry baby who is at his worst when the stakes are at their highest. It tells me that one is wildly inconsistent and completely lost at times, when failure breeds more failure. It tells me that one guy is calm, cool, and collected, rarely making costly mistakes. I know which I'd those three I'd rather have.

 

Now don't think I'm beating the drum for Alex Smith. I started earlier in the thread that he's in no way a top tier guy, but the other two warm bodies under center are in no way worth the money they're getting paid and ARE the whole reason that we're even having this discussion.

 

You talk about not taking arbitrary stats or team success into consideration when judging these QB's, but isn't that exactly what their teams did?

 

Flacco got paid because his team won the super bowl. Cutler got paid because, well, I'm really not sure. Must be that flashy arm and winning personality. It sure ain't stats or success though.

 

In the words of Tuna Fish, "Don't get caught up in glamour and glitz and camera tricks." These QB 's use special affects.

[Dutch 874]

You're right about one thing:the eye test does tell it all. It tells me that one guy is a cry baby who is at his worst when the stakes are at their highest. It tells me that one is wildly inconsistent and completely lost at times, when failure breeds more failure. It tells me that one guy is calm, cool, and collected, rarely making costly mistakes. I know which I'd those three I'd rather have.

 

Now don't think I'm beating the drum for Alex Smith. I started earlier in the thread that he's in no way a top tier guy, but the other two warm bodies under center are in no way worth the money they're getting paid and ARE the whole reason that we're even having this discussion.

 

You talk about not taking arbitrary stats or team success into consideration when judging these QB's, but isn't that exactly what their teams did?

 

Flacco got paid because his team won the super bowl. Cutler got paid because, well, I'm really not sure. Must be that flashy arm and winning personality. It sure ain't stats or success though.

 

In the words of Tuna Fish, "Don't get caught up in glamour and glitz and camera tricks." These QB 's use special affects.

 

Well our eye test sees something different. At least to the degree of how we value players. I personally don't want a QB who is as limited as Alex Smith when it comes to throwing the ball. I want a guy that can be effective making plays all around the field including the intermediate and deep ball game. There is nothing special about dumping the ball off to your RB with him doing all of the work. Dump offs, screens, and passes to 10 yards is borderline managing and that is the height of his capabilities at this point. He doesn't turn the ball over much because of the passes he makes; high percentage throws close to the line of scrimmage. Let's put this more into perspective:

 

1835 of Alex Smith's passing yards were YAC yardage. That's a whopping 55.4% of his total yards (3313) that were because of receiving play makers on his team. 1478 yards were Smith's air yardage at the point of the catch which was 44.6% of his total throws. The telling stat is that Smith's air yardage is only 2.91 which is 3rd worst in the league only in front of Sam Braford at 2.86 and Chad Henne at 2.74. That's some pretty bad company and it proves that all Alex Smith did was dump the ball off and his receivers did all the work from there turning a 2 yard dump off to big gains. Like I've been saying, Alex Smith is a check down master. There's a low percentage of risk involved in those throws which protects him from throwing interceptions. So if not being confident or capable of throwing down the field and settling to dump it off is considering good decision making, then I guess we've seen all the Alex Smith has to offer. It's working fairly well though and it's not a knock off against him. I just wouldn't but him above other QBs who are asked to do and do so much more than just dump off the ball.

Edited May 30, 2014 by Dutch

[BJORN 679]

The reason that I say he's better than those two Is because he doesn't have many OMG bad games. His ceiling is pretty close to theirs when he hits it, but his floor is not in the basement. He doesn't have the rocket arm like those guys, but you're probably not going to see too many 3-4 pick performances from him either.

 

Jay and Joe are one bad, forced throw away from completely imploding and costing the team a win. Alex isn't that guy. He's pretty blah sometimes, but the LULZ don't happen all that often. Plus he excels at spreading the ball around and not just throwing to Brandon Marshall for his entire career. Smith is also more mobile than both if those guys, and he's tougher than at least one of them.

 

I think his future in KC has a lot to do with D-Bowe tbh. If Bowe comes to play this year, watch out. If he doesn't though, it might be a looooong year for Mr. Smith.

Alex Smith is pretty blah all the time seemingly. Watching the Chiefs play is dreadful because of him IMO. He was effective in your offense, widely because of Reid and the talent around him aka p4p goat Charles. Like I said in the RB thread, Charles has 700 yards receiving for a reason...its just not very entertaining to watch.

 

It's preference but I would rather live and die by Flacco or Cutler because at least they can win you games with their arms. The way I see it is if they are on a good day they can beat anyone. And yes they have bad games and single handedly lose games each season but at least they give it a go. Just look at the Ravens' playoff run, Flacco went off (though I'd argue alot of his success was 1. Anquan Boldin 2. luck). Alex Smith is just dreadfully boring and doesn't bring much to the table aside from "I won't fuck up, carry me." To each their own, I guess.

[.AirMcNair. 1,232]

One thing he's got going for him in this is his 108.6 QB rating in the playoffs. It's only over 3 games, but that would put him at the top of this list: http://www.pro-football-reference.com/leaders/pass_rating_career_playoffs.htm

[AL_Royalty 489]

 

Well our eye test sees something different. At least to the degree of how we value players. I personally don't want a QB who is as limited as Alex Smith when it comes to throwing the ball. I want a guy that can be effective making plays all around the field including the intermediate and deep ball game. There is nothing special about dumping the ball off to your RB with him doing all of the work. Dump offs, screens, and passes to 10 yards is borderline managing and that is the height of his capabilities at this point. He doesn't turn the ball over much because of the passes he makes; high percentage throws close to the line of scrimmage. Let's put this more into perspective:

 

1835 of Alex Smith's passing yards were YAC yardage. That's a whopping 55.4% of his total yards (3313) that were because of receiving play makers on his team. 1478 yards were Smith's air yardage at the point of the catch which was 44.6% of his total throws. The telling stat is that Smith's air yardage is only 2.91 which is 3rd worst in the league only in front of Sam Braford at 2.86 and Chad Henne at 2.74. That's some pretty bad company and it proves that all Alex Smith did was dump the ball off and his receivers did all the work from there turning a 2 yard dump off to big gains. Like I've been saying, Alex Smith is a check down master. There's a low percentage of risk involved in those throws which protects him from throwing interceptions. So if not being confident or capable of throwing down the field and settling to dump it off is considering good decision making, then I guess we've seen all the Alex Smith has to offer. It's working fairly well though and it's not a knock off against him. I just wouldn't but him above other QBs who are asked to do and do so much more than just dump off the ball.

 

 

Alex Smith is pretty blah all the time seemingly. Watching the Chiefs play is dreadful because of him IMO. He was effective in your offense, widely because of Reid and the talent around him aka p4p goat Charles. Like I said in the RB thread, Charles has 700 yards receiving for a reason...its just not very entertaining to watch.

 

It's preference but I would rather live and die by Flacco or Cutler because at least they can win you games with their arms. The way I see it is if they are on a good day they can beat anyone. And yes they have bad games and single handedly lose games each season but at least they give it a go. Just look at the Ravens' playoff run, Flacco went off (though I'd argue alot of his success was 1. Anquan Boldin 2. luck). Alex Smith is just dreadfully boring and doesn't bring much to the table aside from "I won't fuck up, carry me." To each their own, I guess.

I can see your side of the argument. We can certainly agree to disagree. It is most definitely preference. I will remind you both though that the Ravens were reportedly seriously considering moving on from Flacco before he went all God mode in the playoffs and won the big game.

 

I think we can all agree though that No matter where you put Smith in the QB hierarchy, he hasn't done anything to warrant an $18 mill a year contract.

[DonovanMcnabb for H.O.F 2,241]

I really don't think anybody outside of the Bear's front office, and a few Bears fans thought the Cutler deal was a good one. Should Smith be paid the same amount it would be an equally bad deal. Except I'd argue it would be slightly worse because at least Cutler still has the tools to challenge a defense, and make the offense that much more dangerous. Alex Smith on the other hand... Doesn't.

 

The Flacco situation was one different from almost any other in the league. He had an unparalleled playoff performance that ended with the Ravens winning a Super Bowl, he had the Ravens backed down into a corner, and had all the leverage. A lot of people agreed that while the deal wasn't the best, under the circumstances they really didn't have many options.

[seanbrock 1,684]

One thing he's got going for him in this is his 108.6 QB rating in the playoffs. It's only over 3 games, but that would put him at the top of this list: http://www.pro-football-reference.com/leaders/pass_rating_career_playoffs.htm

Mark Sanchez has a 94.3 QB rating in the playoffs. He's now fighting for a roster spot with the Eagles.

[AL_Royalty 489]

I really don't think anybody outside of the Bear's front office, and a few Bears fans thought the Cutler deal was a good one. Should Smith be paid the same amount it would be an equally bad deal. Except I'd argue it would be slightly worse because at least Cutler still has the tools to challenge a defense, and make the offense that much more dangerous. Alex Smith on the other hand... Doesn't.

 

The Flacco situation was one different from almost any other in the league. He had an unparalleled playoff performance that ended with the Ravens winning a Super Bowl, he had the Ravens backed down into a corner, and had all the leverage. A lot of people agreed that while the deal wasn't the best, under the circumstances they really didn't have many options.

At the risk of running this thing off topic, I disagree with the common assessment of the Flacco situation. They most certainly did have another option: Tell him to get real. He wasn't going to get $20 fucking million from anyone else. I'd have let him walk for that much. The snowball affect would have been so much different than it ended up being.

 

Matt Ryan would not have asked for 20, Cutler would have gotten something much more reasonable, and Alex Smith would not be asking for 18+. Yeah, sure. The Ravens might have missed the playoffs last season, but... Oh, wait, that's right. They didn't make the playoffs anyway. In fact, I don't know if they'll make the playoffs with that bum again. The team has eroded around him, and no matter how much money he's making, he's not going to be able to carry them.

 

For anything close to 20 million, he should be able to, which puts me back on topic. Alex wants 18, and he can't carry a team either. The only guys who should be making anything close to that in the NFL's current landscape are at the top: Rodgers, Brees, Brady, Manning, and... I feel like I'm missing someone, but it's not Alex Smith. That's my point.

 

Still, I stand by what I said: I wouldn't want the Jay OR Joe show coming anywhere near KC. While Smith is not ideal, I'm ok with it. The thought of It doesn't make me physically ill.

[BLUE 1,026]

Per Rotoworld.com:

ESPN's Adam Teicher doesn't expect the Chiefs to offer Alex Smith more than $15 million annually.

Smith is seeking a contract similar to Jay Cutler ($18.1M per year), so it's a large gap to cover. The Chiefs have expressed interest in getting a deal done before training camp, but are willing to franchise Smith if a long-term contract can't be worked out. Smith is set to make just $7.5 million in the final year of his current deal. He set career highs and made the Pro Bowl in his first season with Andy Reid, but is likely going to have to settle for second-tier quarterback money. May 31 - 3:39 PM

Source: ESPN.com

[BJORN 679]

Alex Smith won't get 15+ on the market next year if he holds out this season nor do I think the Chiefs would be mad or stupid enough to tag him. The way I see it is that Chiefs easily have the upper hand here and are right in their evaluations.

Edited June 1, 2014 by BJORN

[DonovanMcnabb for H.O.F 2,241]

At the risk of running this thing off topic, I disagree with the common assessment of the Flacco situation. They most certainly did have another option: Tell him to get real. He wasn't going to get $20 fucking million from anyone else. I'd have let him walk for that much. The snowball affect would have been so much different than it ended up being.

 

Matt Ryan would not have asked for 20, Cutler would have gotten something much more reasonable, and Alex Smith would not be asking for 18+. Yeah, sure. The Ravens might have missed the playoffs last season, but... Oh, wait, that's right. They didn't make the playoffs anyway. In fact, I don't know if they'll make the playoffs with that bum again. The team has eroded around him, and no matter how much money he's making, he's not going to be able to carry them.

 

For anything close to 20 million, he should be able to, which puts me back on topic. Alex wants 18, and he can't carry a team either. The only guys who should be making anything close to that in the NFL's current landscape are at the top: Rodgers, Brees, Brady, Manning, and... I feel like I'm missing someone, but it's not Alex Smith. That's my point.

 

Still, I stand by what I said: I wouldn't want the Jay OR Joe show coming anywhere near KC. While Smith is not ideal, I'm ok with it. The thought of It doesn't make me physically ill.

 

IDK, the year before the Ravens won the Super Bowl, they were a dropped TD away from going to the Super Bowl. The following year they won it.

 

I'm not the type of person who believes the school of thought that you overpay a QB just because you win the Super Bowl. Nor do I believe in the fallacy that any one player can carry a whole team.

 

But, that 2012 team that won was worse then the Ravens were the three seasons before it, and really, Flacco was the biggest reason they made it to the Super Bowl. He stepped up his play in 2011 and that almost led to a Super Bowl birth, the following year he put together arguably one of the better playoff performances we've seen in a long time.

 

They did have other options, but Flacco showed that he could step up in the playoffs and carry at least the offense to the biggest game, and win. I can't blame the Ravens for locking him up long term.

[Omerta+ 1,206]

Haha every god damn QB thread finds a way to shit on Joe Flacco. I got mad respect for everybody in this thread and their opinions on QB's except Sean. I still have not forgotten when in the Shoutbox at the very beginning of the 2012 season Sean went so far as to say that the Ravens wont win a SB with Flacco. And yes Sean I am still laughing about that.

 

Now to the debate. I think Flacco would have commanded a huge market on the open market. With as short of a memory as the NFL has and how teams are looking for instant gratification commodities among NFL players I think he would have gotten pretty close to what he did regardless. You have a crappy franchise and then Joe Flacco puts up a performance for the ages that rivals the greatest of all time and you know damn well people were thinking that the man had officially arrived. Looking at his line, the only decent starter was Yanda. Oher, McKinnie, and and a rookie guard were below average, birk was hovering around average. Then his weapons, were they bad ? No. Were any of them Jerry Rice or Dallas Clark ? Not even close but somehow that does not count against Montana when he had an equally impressive post season. Is Joe as good as the original Joe ? No, not even close. That said he did have the Ravens in a predicament.

 

Youre telling me at the time that The Raiders, Cardinals. Miami, Buffalo, Browns, Vikings, Bucs, Jags, and Titans who have a serious hole and tons of cap space are not sitting there praying the Ravens stick to a number like 16 ? You know they were. at least 4 of those teams who would have entertained 20 mil very seriously if they thought for a second there was a chance that the Ravens would not pony up.

 

Now as to Alex Smith. Is he a serviceable starter...sure. Has he shown that he will put a team on his back in crunch time and win ? No. Flacco has. So you cant really blame Flacco because the entire landscape is different. Looking at the teams who dont believe they have their QB of the future I would go with Cardinals, Raiders, and Titans at the moment. That is not nearly the market that was there for Flacco's contract time. Second Smith has not even sniffed a SB, much less the performance Flacco has had in one and won it. Third and most importantly is the league gold standard. What did Brees do before his mega contract ? Rodgers ? Flacco ? Yep SB's. The dfference between an idiot and a genius is paying for potential over results. People like Dallas, Atlanta, and Chicago is that they paid a QB who has not gotten them a Lombardi. That was a huge bargaining chip those players had. The fact that three teams ballooned the market with not tangible reasons is who you should be irate with.

 

Now I know a knock has been look at his body of work. Ok lets do that. With the team around him Flacco has not missed the playoffs, he has been to 2 or 3 AFCG games, highest winning percentage of all QB's with his number of starts, a Lombardi and a slick corvette that means he was MVP, and he was MVP for the record. In those playoff games Flacco has played very well. WE would have been in a SB and won one I think if Lee Evans does not drop a literally PERFECT pass from Flacco. If he goes too two SB's and wins won we are not having this discussion much less if he wins both. We just aren't.

 

Looking at pure POTENTIAL as well Flacco has a ceiling that can not be rivaled by many. He is actually pretty damn mobile. He has an amazing arm, and has shown at times the potential to make every throw on the field perfectly. Smith...not so much. Even putting together a game find a performance where Alex Smith has shown a game like the Bengals game 2 years ago in week one. You cant. So based on potential alone Alex Smith can hold a candle to flacco.

 

Since we live in the real world though lets talk in real world terms. Smith cant say he has the body of work in the playoffs Flacco does, the potential, or the results. And considering all things are almost equal since both have had good defenses, great running games, and some decent lines, I am not sure why Smith ahs not had the same opportunity as Flacco. And to that point I would even go a step further and say for a majority of his career he has had everything and just a little more than flacco. And lets not even get into coaching because the sheer idiocy of our staff until recently can be denied. WE took a san fran castoff (Jim Hostler) and have an idiot coach who sings his praises.

[AL_Royalty 489]

Haha every god damn QB thread finds a way to shit on Joe Flacco. I got mad respect for everybody in this thread and their opinions on QB's except Sean. I still have not forgotten when in the Shoutbox at the very beginning of the 2012 season Sean went so far as to say that the Ravens wont win a SB with Flacco. And yes Sean I am still laughing about that.

 

Now to the debate. I think Flacco would have commanded a huge market on the open market. With as short of a memory as the NFL has and how teams are looking for instant gratification commodities among NFL players I think he would have gotten pretty close to what he did regardless. You have a crappy franchise and then Joe Flacco puts up a performance for the ages that rivals the greatest of all time and you know damn well people were thinking that the man had officially arrived. Looking at his line, the only decent starter was Yanda. Oher, McKinnie, and and a rookie guard were below average, birk was hovering around average. Then his weapons, were they bad ? No. Were any of them Jerry Rice or Dallas Clark ? Not even close but somehow that does not count against Montana when he had an equally impressive post season. Is Joe as good as the original Joe ? No, not even close. That said he did have the Ravens in a predicament.

 

Youre telling me at the time that The Raiders, Cardinals. Miami, Buffalo, Browns, Vikings, Bucs, Jags, and Titans who have a serious hole and tons of cap space are not sitting there praying the Ravens stick to a number like 16 ? You know they were. at least 4 of those teams who would have entertained 20 mil very seriously if they thought for a second there was a chance that the Ravens would not pony up.

 

Now as to Alex Smith. Is he a serviceable starter...sure. Has he shown that he will put a team on his back in crunch time and win ? No. Flacco has. So you cant really blame Flacco because the entire landscape is different. Looking at the teams who dont believe they have their QB of the future I would go with Cardinals, Raiders, and Titans at the moment. That is not nearly the market that was there for Flacco's contract time. Second Smith has not even sniffed a SB, much less the performance Flacco has had in one and won it. Third and most importantly is the league gold standard. What did Brees do before his mega contract ? Rodgers ? Flacco ? Yep SB's. The dfference between an idiot and a genius is paying for potential over results. People like Dallas, Atlanta, and Chicago is that they paid a QB who has not gotten them a Lombardi. That was a huge bargaining chip those players had. The fact that three teams ballooned the market with not tangible reasons is who you should be irate with.

 

Now I know a knock has been look at his body of work. Ok lets do that. With the team around him Flacco has not missed the playoffs, he has been to 2 or 3 AFCG games, highest winning percentage of all QB's with his number of starts, a Lombardi and a slick corvette that means he was MVP, and he was MVP for the record. In those playoff games Flacco has played very well. WE would have been in a SB and won one I think if Lee Evans does not drop a literally PERFECT pass from Flacco. If he goes too two SB's and wins won we are not having this discussion much less if he wins both. We just aren't.

 

Looking at pure POTENTIAL as well Flacco has a ceiling that can not be rivaled by many. He is actually pretty damn mobile. He has an amazing arm, and has shown at times the potential to make every throw on the field perfectly. Smith...not so much. Even putting together a game find a performance where Alex Smith has shown a game like the Bengals game 2 years ago in week one. You cant. So based on potential alone Alex Smith can hold a candle to flacco.

 

Since we live in the real world though lets talk in real world terms. Smith cant say he has the body of work in the playoffs Flacco does, the potential, or the results. And considering all things are almost equal since both have had good defenses, great running games, and some decent lines, I am not sure why Smith ahs not had the same opportunity as Flacco. And to that point I would even go a step further and say for a majority of his career he has had everything and just a little more than flacco. And lets not even get into coaching because the sheer idiocy of our staff until recently can be denied. WE took a san fran castoff (Jim Hostler) and have an idiot coach who sings his praises.

First off, I agree with some of what you've said here. Hell, I agree with at least half of it I'd say. The parts I agree with though I've pretty much stated already that I agree. As far as the rest of it, let's begin.

 

I can honestly say that no, I don't believe Flacco would have gotten 20 mill from anyone. Every time a decent QB hits the market, everyone just swears that he's going to the Jets or the Cardinals. How many times has it happened though? If Arizona was going to land someone, they would have. If they wouldn't come off of 20 mill for Peyton, what makes you think they would have been salivating to give it to Flacco? As for the Raiders, Bills, Browns, etc... Who wants to play there?

 

The VIkings had not stadium, the Jags had wayyyy too many holes to give Flacco 20, and the Bucs were, well, the Bucs (hope that doesn't get me banned. They're looking up this season :thumbup2). He wasn't going to end up in those places, especially TB since Freeman was still "about to realize his potential."

 

As far as his epic march to the Super Bowl, it was exactly that. He had his "solar eclipse" run, but how often do you really get to see one of those? Once in a generation? He saw his. He reached his ceiling. He's not going to live on it. I'm not paying him 20. His HOF buddies are gone now, and his workload is a lot heavier. We'll see if he's up to the challenge, and if so I'll be wrong. I don't think he will.

 

Contrary to what you said though, Smith has not have this uber awesome 49ers team for very long at all. The 49ers were garbage for a long time. It was common knowledge until a couple of seasons ago that the NFC West was the weakest division in football. They put a 7-9 team into the playoffs. C'mon son. Flacco has had multiple HOFers. Great TEAMS breed a culture of winning, not one great Flacco. When Smith's TEAM got good, so did he. He went to the NFCCG, and there are some people that feel if he would have remained in the lineup, Flacco never would have gotten that ring the next season. Just something to think about.

 

Gotta run to work. That is all for now.

[BLUE 1,026]

Per Rotoworld.com:

Alex Smith indicated he would not take a "pay-as-you-go" contract like the one Andy Dalton signed with the Bengals.

Dalton's contract includes no guaranteed money behind the first year. "I want to get something that's right that I'm going to play out, absolutely, and that's definitely a focus of mine," said Smith. Agent Tom Condon spoke with GM John Dorsey about a Smith deal "a couple days ago," but it's unclear if the gap is being bridged. Since the early spring, it's been rumored that Smith is targeting Jay Cutler or Joe Flacco money -- upwards of $20 million a year. Aug 10 - 2:59 PM

Source: USA Today

Edited August 10, 2014 by BLUE