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Dutch

Who is the best defender in the NFL?

  

29 members have voted

  1. 1. Who is the best defender in the NFL?

    • Patrick Willis
      0
    • Luke Kuechly
    • Navarro Bowman
    • Darrelle Revis
      0
    • Richard Sherman
      0
    • J.J Watt
    • Von Miller
    • Lavonte David
      0
    • Clay Matthews
      0
    • Geno Atkins
    • Earl Thomas
    • Other - specify
      0


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I stood at this screen for a while before I was able to make my decision. After some serious thought, I had to give it to Von Miller. The guy is an absolute freak. Two of the things that factored into my decision was impact and level of performance. Von impacts every part of the game; running and passing. Other positions like CB, safety, other LB positions, they can somewhat be avoided. Throwing in a different direction etc. But as a passing rushing LB, he is attacking the line of scrimmage constantly and that is something that cannot be avoided in the run game or passing game. If they run in a different direction, he's more than athletic enough to make a play on the other side of the field. He's in a position to affect the play within seconds.

 

Seeing as though he can't be avoided like other positions because he's attacking the line of scrimmage (if you disrupt the line of scrimmage, you disrupt the play) and also considering the level of his performance, he is easily one of the most disruptive players in the NFL (along with Watt). Performing at this amazing level while being in the most prime position to debilitate plays (all about the line of scrimmage), Von gets my vote. He's just too disruptive not to be the best defender in the NFL in my eyes.

 

 

Edited by Dutch

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Watt the fuck are you thinking, taking anyone but JJ? :smug:

 

 

Also, no Earl Thomas? He'd be in my top 3.

Edited by Chernobyl426

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Watt the fuck are you thinking, taking anyone but JJ? :smug:

 

Yeah man. It took me so long to choose because I was struggling between Miller and Watt. Watt's season last year was probably the best season of a D-lineman EVER. His season last year was equivalent if not greater than Adrian Peterson's MVP season last year. He just dominated. I don't ever expect to see a season like that from him again. He's still one if not the most dominating force in the league and an argument can be made for him to be #1 but I went with Miller. I think Miller can replicate his 2012 season success and Watt's 2012 season was a once in a lifetime season. Watt's 2013 season was extraordinary as well so, it can go either way.

Edited by Dutch
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I thought Watt was as good or better in 2013 than he was in during his statistically monstrous 2012 campaign. Stats can be fluky, but he was dominant. Best player in the league for my money (though not the most valuable because of position), let alone best defender.

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I thought Watt was as good or better in 2013 than he was in during his statistically monstrous 2012 campaign. Stats can be fluky, but he was dominant. Best player in the league for my money (though not the most valuable because of position), let alone best defender.

 

There was nothing fluky about the stats in that season. The stats told the real story and matched the eye test lol. He was a monster and straight dominated. His tackles for loss behind the line of scrimmage, his pressures, hits, and sacks were astronomical; even his batting passes. He was effective in every single aspect of his position last year to a superlative and unprecedented degree. I think it would be nearly impossible for anyone (including himself) to match that type of season again. His 2013 season was definitely elite and still outstanding production for a 3-4 DE but pales to his 2012 season.

Edited by Dutch

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There was nothing fluky about the stats in that season. The stats told the real story and matched the eye test lol. He was a monster and straight dominated. His tackles for loss behind the line of scrimmage, his pressures, hits, and sacks were astronomical; even his batting passes. He was effective in every single aspect of his position last year to a superlative and unprecedented degree. I think it would be nearly impossible for anyone to match that type of season again. His 2013 season was definitely elite and still outstanding production for a 3-4 DE but pales to his 2012 season.

 

I think you misunderstand me.

 

I'm not saying his big numbers in 2012 were a fluke, I'm saying that numbers can be "fluky" in the way that they change from year to year. It's their volatility that I'm referring to. Obviously I'm not trying to say that Watt was lesser than his 2012 season stats indicate, while at the same time calling him the best player in the NFL.

 

For example, if you put on the tape of Clay Matthews in 2010, 2011, and 2012 you're going to see a player who looks consistently dominant in each of those three seasons. But if you look at the numbers, it goes 13.5 sacks, 6 sacks, and 13 sacks respectively. His play didn't drop off by more than 50% in the middle, but his numbers did. Because numbers, especially for DL/PR guys, are volatile.

 

In any case, my point is that I think Watt was as good or better in 2013 than he was the year before and the numbers just didn't come in the same way they had. That was my impression from watching him play. This was pretty well illustrated in his wk 1 game against the Chargers. He straight dominated for 4 quarters, but his box score was pretty empty. That can be how it goes sometimes. Part of the explanation probably had to do with a whole lot more quick game being deployed against him.

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It's JJ Watt. Sack numbers were down but he still dominated every game and get his pressures and hits in. I think he led the league in both of those categories. Miller is the only other guy in the conversation. What he does as far as disrupting the passing game from the position he plays is incredible and he might be even more dominant as a run defender. Then you add the extra dimension of him getting his hands in passing lanes and altering QB's throws that way.

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Wanted to go with Revis but he slipped after his injury and its too hard to ignore the dominance and impact of Watt.

Edited by BJORN

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1. JJ Watt
2. Earl Thomas III
3. Geno Atkins
4. Robert Quinn
5. Navarro Bowman
6. Von Miller
7. Richard Sherman
8. Darrelle Revis
9. Mo Wilkerson
10. Justin Houston

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I love Von Miller, and JJ watt is nearly unstoppable, but I gave my vote to Kuechly, and he only gets the edge over Willis for me because of age. I've seen Von and JJ get nullified in games with the quick pass. Kuechly is in on almost every single play. JJ is also rendered pretty ineffective when you run the ball around him cus the Texans were terrible vs. the run.

 

I'll take an all-star middle backer over an all-star pass rusher every day of the week. :shrug:

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1. JJ Watt

2. Earl Thomas III

3. Geno Atkins

4. Robert Quinn

5. Navarro Bowman

6. Von Miller

7. Richard Sherman

8. Darrelle Revis

9. Mo Wilkerson

10. Justin Houston

Mo Wilk at 9 is a good one. Geno over Quinn though? :think: I love Geno, but Quinn is one of the quickest pass rushers I've seen lately.

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I love Von Miller, and JJ watt is nearly unstoppable, but I gave my vote to Kuechly, and he only gets the edge over Willis for me because of age. I've seen Von and JJ get nullified in games with the quick pass. Kuechly is in on almost every single play. JJ is also rendered pretty ineffective when you run the ball around him cus the Texans were terrible vs. the run.

 

I'll take an all-star middle backer over an all-star pass rusher every day of the week. :shrug:

 

But doesn't the fact that teams go to so much quick game against Von and JJ mean that they aren't being nullified? I realize that that particular approach limits their own individual ability to make negative plays, but it's a change in game plan that they're causing and that creates opportunities for the defense as a whole.

 

For instance, you look at this last Super Bowl. Peyton Manning completed 69% of his passes and set a record for completions in the SB specifically by using the quick passing game to try and "nullify" the Seattle pass rush. But aside from the pressured interceptions, that quick passing game that he had to use gave the Seattle secondary the opportunity to limit catches for very short gains and prevent 1st downs, forcing punts and keeping the ball in Wilson's hands. In other words, the game plan that they forced the offense into created opportunity for the defensive success even though it wasn't typically them making the play in that game.

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But doesn't the fact that teams go to so much quick game against Von and JJ mean that they aren't being nullified? I realize that that particular approach limits their own individual ability to make negative plays, but it's a change in game plan that they're causing and that creates opportunities for the defense as a whole.

 

For instance, you look at this last Super Bowl. Peyton Manning completed 69% of his passes and set a record for completions in the SB specifically by using the quick passing game to try and "nullify" the Seattle pass rush. But aside from the pressured interceptions, that quick passing game that he had to use gave the Seattle secondary the opportunity to limit catches for very short gains and prevent 1st downs, forcing punts and keeping the ball in Wilson's hands. In other words, the game plan that they forced the offense into created opportunity for the defensive success even though it wasn't typically them making the play in that game.

 

Well, I think it had more to do with him being afraid to challenge their secondary, but yeah, he was shaken into a conservative gameplan by the pass-rush as well. Still take a free-reigning mlb who can cover, play the run, qb the defense, etc - do it all, over a defensive linemen.

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Holy shit this was difficult.

 

While the vast majority of you went with JJ Watt...I have to lean more towards the interior of the defensive line.

 

Geno Atkins is a pretty special player. I've always said it...but interior pressure>>edge pressure. I know Watt moves around a lot, but Geno plays 99% of his snaps between the guards. Not only is he a great run defender, but he is an immense presence in the passing game.

 

But think about this...with all these edge guys out there, who expects a mammoth interior defender to rack up 12.5 sacks and 4 FF's? That's special to me. He IS the elite interior defensive lineman in this league and nobody can even compare to him in what he does. He missed over half of last year, but still had 6 sacks. You can't block the guy, and with QB's these days, they like a clean pocket.

 

When you have a monstrous 6'1 300 lb freight train breaking double teams and is coming right up in your grill..it's a little disheartening, and frightening to say the least.

 

Geno gets it for me.

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I love Von Miller, and JJ watt is nearly unstoppable, but I gave my vote to Kuechly, and he only gets the edge over Willis for me because of age. I've seen Von and JJ get nullified in games with the quick pass. Kuechly is in on almost every single play. JJ is also rendered pretty ineffective when you run the ball around him cus the Texans were terrible vs. the run.

 

I'll take an all-star middle backer over an all-star pass rusher every day of the week. :shrug:

 

No offense but this is gross. :lol:

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Holy shit this was difficult.

 

While the vast majority of you went with JJ Watt...I have to lean more towards the interior of the defensive line.

 

Geno Atkins is a pretty special player. I've always said it...but interior pressure>>edge pressure. I know Watt moves around a lot, but Geno plays 99% of his snaps between the guards. Not only is he a great run defender, but he is an immense presence in the passing game.

 

But think about this...with all these edge guys out there, who expects a mammoth interior defender to rack up 12.5 sacks and 4 FF's? That's special to me. He IS the elite interior defensive lineman in this league and nobody can even compare to him in what he does. He missed over half of last year, but still had 6 sacks. You can't block the guy, and with QB's these days, they like a clean pocket.

 

When you have a monstrous 6'1 300 lb freight train breaking double teams and is coming right up in your grill..it's a little disheartening, and frightening to say the least.

 

Geno gets it for me.

You've gotta be fucking kidding me :rofl:

 

I love Geno and a DT getting 12 sacks is insane, but he has almost nowhere close to the impact that JJ has. Especially coming back from an ACL tear...We don't know if he will even return to form.

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Anyone not voting JJ Watt is either a NFL hipster or a fucking homer lol. This is retardedly simple.

Edited by seanbrock
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Anyone not voting JJ Watt is either a NFL hipster or a fucking homer lol. This is retiredly simple.

 

Right on the money Sean. This sort of threat is really difficult for TGP simply because of how obvious the answer is. Guys around here definitely prefer to take the contrarian perspective (which is a good thing and usually refreshing). But this sort of poll is the achilles heel to that sort of attitude.

I'm still confused as to how a defensive lineman is easier to nullify via scheme than a middle linebacker?

Seems like if you want to gameplan around an elite MLB, just throw the ball to your outside receivers.

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:shrug: it's just my opinion that I think a dlinemen does much less on the field than a mlb, thus making him not as valuable. Certainly don't think the conversation should be that cut and dry and closed for discussion.

Edited by theMileHighGuy

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There was nothing fluky about the stats in that season. The stats told the real story and matched the eye test lol. He was a monster and straight dominated. His tackles for loss behind the line of scrimmage, his pressures, hits, and sacks were astronomical; even his batting passes. He was effective in every single aspect of his position last year to a superlative and unprecedented degree. I think it would be nearly impossible for anyone (including himself) to match that type of season again. His 2013 season was definitely elite and still outstanding production for a 3-4 DE but pales to his 2012 season.

I am a huge fan of Watt's and follow all the news on him and the Texans and I'm telling you do not be surprised if he has an even better season next year.

I don't think I have ever seen a more dedicated and hard working player and this off season he has been killing it and not just physically.

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This one was easily JJ Watt for me. I like Earl Thomas though too. Guy can do pretty much anything they ask of him and do it as one of the best in the league.

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I love Von Miller, and JJ watt is nearly unstoppable, but I gave my vote to Kuechly, and he only gets the edge over Willis for me because of age. I've seen Von and JJ get nullified in games with the quick pass. Kuechly is in on almost every single play. JJ is also rendered pretty ineffective when you run the ball around him cus the Texans were terrible vs. the run.

 

I'll take an all-star middle backer over an all-star pass rusher every day of the week. :shrug:

You prolly right about the LB - Texans are horrible without Cushing.

I would disagree about what you said about Watt though - his front on defense is as solid as it gets and the "Watt Factor" makes teams change their tactics.

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I love Von Miller, and JJ watt is nearly unstoppable, but I gave my vote to Kuechly, and he only gets the edge over Willis for me because of age. I've seen Von and JJ get nullified in games with the quick pass. Kuechly is in on almost every single play. JJ is also rendered pretty ineffective when you run the ball around him cus the Texans were terrible vs. the run.

 

I'll take an all-star middle backer over an all-star pass rusher every day of the week. :shrug:

 

Well, Navarro Bowman is your guy, not Luke Kuechly. Kuechly may not even be a top 5 LB, forget about being the best defensive player in the league.

 

For me, the only guys that I really even considered for this were JJ Watt, Von Miller and Earl Thomas. Came down to Watt and Miller, and I think I would take Watt.

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Well, Navarro Bowman is your guy, not Luke Kuechly. Kuechly may not even be a top 5 LB, forget about being the best defensive player in the league.

 

For me, the only guys that I really even considered for this were JJ Watt, Von Miller and Earl Thomas. Came down to Watt and Miller, and I think I would take Watt.

 

 

All aboard the Kuechly-haters Train! Choo-choo!

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I don't think Kuechly is the league's premier Off-LOS linebacker, and definitely not the league's premier defender, but I would be interested to know who the 5 guys are who would rank ahead of him and bump him from the short list.

 

Seems like the only way to do that would be to give a lot of love to guys who can't stay on the field like Lee and Cushing-- which wouldn't be very fair. Bowman and David are the top 2 for me. After them, I prefer Willis but I think Kuechly is in the conversation for #3.

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