Your All Overrated Team

[SteVo+ 3,702]

WR Calvin Johnson. Just by virtue of being the top guy. He's not overwhelmingly so like the media would have you believe though. AJ Green, healthy Julio, Demaryius Thomas, Andre Johnson, and even Dez Bryant are all in his wheelhouse.

 

Except it's not just the media who hype him. He was voted the #2 player of 2014 by his peers, above Tom Brady, J,J. Watt, Robert Quinn...above everybody except Peyton Manning. And those votes are coming from the guys who see his tape, the guys who have to cover him every week, the guys who know what he can do better than any of us.

[oochymp 2,393]

[Dutch 874]

There is absolutely no way Calvin Johnson is overrated. Megatron is on a whole level above all of those guys. It's not even a question. A.J Green is my favorite receiver in the league but he's no Calvin Johnson. He hasn't reached that peak of dominance yet even though there things I think Green does better. A healthy Julio Jones only put up an 1198 yard season with 10 TDs (rest is potential based), Demaryius Thomas is a great athlete but is playing with hands down the smartest and one of the best QBs of all time who knows how to get his players the ball in the most effective situations to produce. I do believe however that D.T would be elite somewhere else. But let's make no mistake like having Peyton doesn't help a lot. EVEN the fact that he does have Peyton still doesn't touch Megatron. Dez is a monster and probably the closest build to Megatron but doesn't impact the game to the level that Megatron has yet. Andre in his prime would make for a nice discussion but that was several years ago.

 

Megatron is easily one of the top if not the most dominant player in the league.The point is, dominance at this level can't be overrated.

Edited July 15, 2014 by Dutch

[KempBolt 498]

 

No. He's a jack linebacker; LOLB. Trent Cole and Brandon Graham was our predator rush linebackers.

 

The LOLB (or Jack if that's your preferred nomenclature) in a 3-4 is an edge rusher. Good run defense is fine, but Barwin played a position that is expected to pass rush, was on the field for almost every defensive snap, and he touched the QB 10 times (or once every 113 snaps). And that's after getting a 6/36M contract.

[KempBolt 498]

I can understand why someone would call Johnson overrated because he's beginning to be thought of as the GOAT, and Peterson because he's not really a viable foundation for a playoff worthy team. But those definitely aren't the names I would have chosen (clearly). In both cases, I think the gap between reality and hype is small.

 

Though I do think that, 2 years ago, Andre Johnson was the best receiver in football. Not Calvin.

[oochymp 2,393]

I can understand why someone would call Johnson overrated because he's beginning to be thought of as the GOAT, and Peterson because he's not really a viable foundation for a playoff worthy team. But those definitely aren't the names I would have chosen (clearly). In both cases, I think the gap between reality and hype is small.

 

Though I do think that, 2 years ago, Andre Johnson was the best receiver in football. Not Calvin.

I think that says more about the role of a running back in today's NFL than it says about Peterson specifically, I don't think it's realistic to expect a running back to single-handedly put his team in the playoffs if that's what you mean by a viable foundation for a playoff worthy team, and if that's not what you're referring to then please elaborate

[KempBolt 498]

I think that says more about the role of a running back in today's NFL than it says about Peterson specifically, I don't think it's realistic to expect a running back to single-handedly put his team in the playoffs if that's what you mean by a viable foundation for a playoff worthy team, and if that's not what you're referring to then please elaborate

It's not really my point, but I was just saying I can understand the perspective that was being shared that AD might be overrated in the sense that some view him as a good foundation for an offense when really he isn't.

 

You're right, that's more an indictment of the RB position today than it is of Peterson. But the fact remains that some view him that way and he can't live up to. That's basically be definition of being overrated. It doesn't have to be his fault. And as I said, I think any gap between perception and reality with him is small and he isn't who I would choose for this list by a long shot. I think basically any great player is going to be overrated in some way or another.

[RazorStar 4,025]

Read what I post. >_>

 

I'm not seriously saying Jamaal Charles is overrated, I'm being a hater. I'm also not saying Calvin Johnson isn't the best WR in the game right now. I'm just saying the competition for the top guy is really fierce, and I wouldn't hold it against someone for making an argument for any of the guys I listed above. Megatron has a QB that is perfect for letting his natural ability shine, without Stafford's big arm heaving up prayers to the guy he doesn't shimmer like he does now. Having a QB that optimizes your game shouldn't hurt you though. Demaryius Thomas when he started getting healthy early in his career had great stats with Tim Tebow as his QB, and he's only taken it further with someone who can actually complete passes.

[Favre4Ever+ 4,476]

I love the WR position... I love watching them play, watching them run routes, work out (combine and stuff)... but let's be honest. Can we really and definitively correlate a teams success to a single WR? CJ is amazing, my 2nd best WR in the league right now... Well, technically first I guess because Josh Gordon won't be in the league... But even then, I don't think I could put him (or any other WR) at #2 overall on a list of NFL players. I would call that overrating him based on the actual influence he (or his position in general) have on each game in particular.

[KempBolt 498]

I love the WR position... I love watching them play, watching them run routes, work out (combine and stuff)... but let's be honest. Can we really and definitively correlate a teams success to a single WR? CJ is amazing, my 2nd best WR in the league right now... Well, technically first I guess because Josh Gordon won't be in the league... But even then, I don't think I could put him (or any other WR) at #2 overall on a list of NFL players. I would call that overrating him based on the actual influence he (or his position in general) have on each game in particular.

Depends on what the list is supposed to be. 100 best players or 100 most valuable players. Very different things.

[Favre4Ever+ 4,476]

How great is a player, really, if he isn't valuable or provide a large influence in the success of his team?

[KempBolt 498]

How great is a player, really, if he isn't valuable or provide a large influence in the success of his team?

 

Uhhhh... possibly still really great?

 

Positional value exists. If the whole league had a redraft, it would probably start with ~10 straight quarterbacks. Does that mean that the ten best players in the league are all quarterbacks? Or does their position just give them a bigger opportunity to impact the game and therefore a higher value than, say, a guard or wide receiver who may be better at his craft?

 

I think you know the answer.

[Favre4Ever+ 4,476]

While he deserves accolades and recognition as being arguably the best at his position.. If you aren't making an impact (or relatively low compared to other positions), I too, would pick a player maybe not "as great". If the choice is between a Top 3 position which serves little benefit to my football team and a Top 10-15 player who will make a large impact... I will take the later, easily.

Which position(s) have as little of an impact as WR? Not many.

You can have the supremely talented guys who don't alter the outcome of the game.. I will take the rest.

[KempBolt 498]

Lol... yes. Like I said, best and most valuable are two different things.

[Favre4Ever+ 4,476]

I don't think you really understand what I am saying... What you conceive to be the best isn't actually the best, because of the little value they actually bring to the team. It's in your head.

[AllYouNeedIsLovie 377]

Not gonna make a full list right now but I'll throw out some names I haven't seen mentioned yet:

 

QB

 

Eli Manning

Russell Wilson

 

RB

 

Alfred Morris

 

WR

 

Mike Wallace

[KempBolt 498]

I don't think you really understand what I am saying... What you conceive to be the best isn't actually the best, because of the little value they actually bring to the team. It's in your head.

 

Oh, ok now I get it. So Matt Ryan is better than Calvin Johnson because he brings more value to his team.

 

So what is in whose head now?

[Favre4Ever+ 4,476]

You clearly don't get it.

 

Because playing up your comment as true would mean that Matt Ryan has an overall bigger positive influence on his team than Calvin Johnson... Not sure that's possible when talking about a QB who is clearly best when being propped up by the other players around him and who wears the mantle of "Matty Slush".

[Thanatos 2,847]

Favre is trolling again, Kemp. Ignore him. He clearly forgot to take his meds today.

[Favre4Ever+ 4,476]

Thanatos, if you have problem with me or my opinions... Please feel free to shoot me a PM and I will gladly converse with you. In the public realm here where you, Dutch, and Alex only like to beat a drum to look cool and impressive to your friends as you degrade others is not where that civil conversation will take place. If you, or others, can't read my comments without berating me, please put me on ignore. All parties would be better off.

Have a great night.

[KempBolt 498]

You clearly don't get it.

 

Because playing up your comment as true would mean that Matt Ryan has an overall bigger positive influence on his team than Calvin Johnson... Not sure that's possible when talking about a QB who is clearly best when being propped up by the other players around him and who wears the mantle of "Matty Slush".

 

 

No, I get it. You're just wrong. If you don't like my example, fine. Because the onus here is on you. You're the one trying to deny that a player can be better at football without being more valuable than another player who plays a position that is inherently more valuable.

 

So almost every starting QB in the league is better at their position than the best center, for example. It's so clearly wrong on its face.

[Thanatos 2,847]

Thanatos, if you have problem with me or my opinions... Please feel free to shoot me a PM and I will gladly converse with you. In the public realm here where you, Dutch, and Alex only like to beat a drum to look cool and impressive to your friends as you degrade others is not where that civil conversation will take place. If you, or others, can't read my comments without berating me, please put me on ignore. All parties would be better off.

 

Have a great night.

That may be the single greatest hypocritical sentence in the history of TGP.

 

What you are arguing is patently ridiculous. I was simply attempting to save Kemp the trouble of wasting his time.

Edited July 16, 2014 by Thanatos19

[KempBolt 498]

That may be the single greatest hypocritical sentence in the history of TGP.

 

What you are arguing is patently ridiculous. I was simply attempting to save Kemp the trouble of wasting his time.

 

Good looking out.

[Favre4Ever+ 4,476]

No, I get it. You're just wrong. If you don't like my example, fine. Because the onus here is on you. You're the one trying to deny that a player can be better at football without being more valuable than another player who plays a position that is inherently more valuable.

 

So almost every starting QB in the league is better at their position than the best center, for example. It's so clearly wrong on its face.

Oh no, that's fine. Lol.

 

I do disagree with your example, because it doesn't really illustrate the point well. I think you are trying to give examples of something you don't really understand -- which makes the conversation increasingly difficult. Granted, it is my opinion, so I don't exactly expect you to get in my head and know how I view certain players... But Matt Ryan is clearly not one of them I view that highly.

 

And it also appears I value centers more than you think I do. Such an important and unheralded position.

 

 

For conversations sake, I would probably put most of my Top 10 QB list ahead of Johnson... Rodgers, Brady, Manning, , Brees, Rivers, Ben, etc etc. They are all great QBs in their own right and even the ones lower on the list still have more of an impact. When you start getting into the later teens though, like where Matt Ryan probably is, then you can really start debating the overall positive influence compared to the likes of CJ.

 

As for other positions, I would have to actually sit down and take time to put together lists and weight out what I feel their role is on the team compared to others positions to give you a fair and accurate example outside of QBs.

 

What it boils down to really is that WR just isn't that impactful or important of a position. Calvin Johnson is GREAT, surely... But without a doubt there are players worse at their position around the league who are better and definitely more impactful.

 

I wouldn't take a WR high in a "most valuable" draft, fantasy draft, or real NFL draft. The position simply is overrated as a whole, not just CJ.

[oochymp 2,393]

but when you're talking about the best players should impact even come into play? to me that just makes the discussion too biased toward positions like QB and takes the discussion away from who are actually the best players