Best Trio

[Dutch 874]

It's not that I want to undervalue him scoring TDs, but like I said before... When that's the ONLY thing he has. I just, I don't know, want more.

 

It so happens that "only" thing that you are referring to is the most important thing to an offense; scoring TDs. Let's back track on some of the things you have said and Say it out loud IRL and really think about what you're saying.Say this out loud: "The 'only' thing Jimmy Graham does is score TDs." Pause. Wait a minute and think. Then say it again. "The only thing Jimmy Graham does is score TDs." How does that sound lol?

 

Edited August 22, 2015 by Dutch

[Thanatos 2,847]

Sounds very much like another stupid argument I've heard a lot. "All Tim Tebow does is win games."

 

You're acting like Graham scored his TDs in a vacuum, solely due to him, which, ironically enough, downplays other things like blocking from other people. He's a big guy with no other real redzone threat for an offense that, for most of his career, was one of the most prolific passing offenses in the NFL that was also known for running up scores in garbage time, especially the year Brees broke the yardage record. It's no surprise that he has a lot of scores. And I'm not saying he's not a great player. Unlike Favre, I'd love him on my team. But as far as TEs go he's 4th or 5th in the league to me. I'll take a versatile player at the TE position over someone who is purely a pass-catcher in most situations.

 

1. Gronkowski

.

.

.

.

2. Olsen

3. Witten

4. Graham/Vernon

Edited August 22, 2015 by Thanatos19

[Sarge+ 3,436]

I think it's also just plain incorrect to say "blocking means very little for tight ends these days." If that's the case then why do many tight ends still get drafted almost solely due to their blocking abilities?

 

Ask any NFL coach how much they value a TE that can block and I bet, hands down, all of them will say it's very important. And for that reason, Gronkowski is on another level than Graham, and really it's not even close.

[ATL_Predator+ 1,196]

I think this is very simple...but some of you are making this complex.

 

In ANY offensive system/scheme...is a WR required to sit in tight on the LOS and block whether running/passing down?

 

No, that's the TE's job.

 

The WR's job on most plays...besides run plays where they are required to block...but not necessarily be the focal point for a rushing attack/lanes...is to go down field, get open, and catch the ball.

 

Jimmy Graham? Idk what the % is of how often he lines out wide or in the slot but I can guarantee you any SMART, coach is not having him help in pass pro.

 

Simple, really.

 

Graham is a WR that simply has the TE tag slapped on him because of his size.

[56AceInDaPlace 110]

Ok my question is.. at what point do you punish Graham? The line that is to determine your rank? I will be clear cut to the point.

 

For example, Gronk is 1 no doubt.

2 for me is Graham, better receiving threat over Written, Olsen and Davis.

 

But if Olsen, who is below Graham as a receiving threat, but a better blocker, where does that put him over Graham?

 

Someone who is BETTER or GREAT at something over someone who is a good balance of good and good, isn't worth being the better player? Olsen? I am a fan. I like him but I can't find a reason to pick him over Graham.

 

With Olsen I get a solid tightend, I know who can block some. But if I'm getting Graham, I'm getting a double digit touchdown machine who can make the hard catches and dominate a match up all day. Unlike Olsen.

 

And I'm speaking for me and my rankings, opinions of tightends. But honestly asking why people are downplaying Graham THAT MUCH.

 

He wanted to be a WR for WR money. Tightends don't get big pay days like WRs. Tightends today are basically big guy WRs. Granted the position requires to block, today's game uses them different. People are looking for that big play tightend. Over a blocker.

 

I feel teams will draft a big threat receiving tightend who could block or work on it.. over a tightend who is a blocker with potential to be a solid receiver.

[DonovanMcnabb for H.O.F 2,241]

I think it's also just plain incorrect to say "blocking means very little for tight ends these days." If that's the case then why do many tight ends still get drafted almost solely due to their blocking abilities?

 

Ask any NFL coach how much they value a TE that can block and I bet, hands down, all of them will say it's very important. And for that reason, Gronkowski is on another level than Graham, and really it's not even close.

 

But a TE with great receiving skills will always go much higher then a tight end who excels at blocking. The last TE taken in the first rd who's decent blocker is Olsen taken all the way back in 2007.

 

Not only that but looking back at just the last couple of seasons, a vast majority of TEs either struggle as in-line blockers, or is a part of their game that's a work in progress. Ebron came off the board in the top 10 simply because he's a TE with elite receiving skills even though he himself has said he hates run blocking, the opposite would never ever happen. And if it did, the player would more then likely be converted to a OT.

 

And you want to talk about what GMs value more from a TE? Again, the Seahawks sent a 1st rd. pick and their great run blocking center to the Saints for a TE who can't block for shit. The seahawks were noticeably better at run blocking when Unger was healthy.

 

A TE is an offensive weapon first, second, and a blocker third. It's that simple. I can show you games last year when Graham wasn't healthy where the Saints struggled especially in the red zone. Good luck finding games where a blocking TE has that kind of impact. It sure didn't prevent the Saints in 2011 from having the second best running game according to FO that year.

[Sarge+ 3,436]

I never said blocking is MORE important than receiving. I simply said it's an important part of playing TE that some of you in this thread are overlooking. And the stats already prove Gronk is just as good, if not better, than graham as a receiver. The fact that he can also block puts him on another level.

 

There's literally no area where Graham is better than Gronk. That's the point. That's why Bangy's preference of Graham over Gronk is pretty outrageous.

Edited August 22, 2015 by Sarge

[DonovanMcnabb for H.O.F 2,241]

Ok my question is.. at what point do you punish Graham? The line that is to determine your rank? I will be clear cut to the point.

 

For example, Gronk is 1 no doubt.

2 for me is Graham, better receiving threat over Written, Olsen and Davis.

 

But if Olsen, who is below Graham as a receiving threat, but a better blocker, where does that put him over Graham?

 

Someone who is BETTER or GREAT at something over someone who is a good balance of good and good, isn't worth being the better player? Olsen? I am a fan. I like him but I can't find a reason to pick him over Graham.

 

With Olsen I get a solid tightend, I know who can block some. But if I'm getting Graham, I'm getting a double digit touchdown machine who can make the hard catches and dominate a match up all day. Unlike Olsen.

 

And I'm speaking for me and my rankings, opinions of tightends. But honestly asking why people are downplaying Graham THAT MUCH.

 

He wanted to be a WR for WR money. Tightends don't get big pay days like WRs. Tightends today are basically big guy WRs. Granted the position requires to block, today's game uses them different. People are looking for that big play tightend. Over a blocker.

 

I feel teams will draft a big threat receiving tightend who could block or work on it.. over a tightend who is a blocker with potential to be a solid receiver.

 

Exactly. The amount of impact a great receiving TE can have >>> the amount of impact he can have as a blocker.

 

Jimmy Graham isn't just better then the next man as a receiver, he is by far better then anyone else right now. Nobody outside of one guy is putting up Graham's numbers. Not in today's league, and not in the past, and if that doesn't warrant being the second best TE, then IDK what to say. Lol.

[Sarge+ 3,436]

It would be nice if you guys actually read what I said rather than what you think I said.

 

lol

[DonovanMcnabb for H.O.F 2,241]

It would be nice if you guys actually read what I said rather than what you think I said.

 

lol

 

You said that blocking is very important for a TE. That very idea is the one that I'm refuting. That the reality is that blocking is not really all that important for a TE in today's NFL.

[56AceInDaPlace 110]

It would be nice if you guys actually read what I said rather than what you think I said.

 

lol

I was posting from what u and Favre posted from eariler. After reading your last post I see what your posting at. I would be with u on Gronk over Graham for Bangs post. After that, is where we all disagree lol.

[Sarge+ 3,436]

Ok but that's not correct, Dmac. It's actually very simple. Gronk puts up equal or better receiving numbers than Graham. And he can also block. So on what planet does Bangy live where Graham is preferable to Gronk in any way? Still waiting for a good answer to this.

 

Wide receivers should block, too. Everyone on offense outside of the QB needs to block. You're not a shitty WR if you can't block, but it's not rocket science to say it helps your team more when you can. To say blocking has NO VALUE from a TE... quite frankly, I'm shocked you would make such an assertion.

[DonovanMcnabb for H.O.F 2,241]

Ok but that's not correct, Dmac. It's actually very simple. Gronk puts up equal or better receiving numbers than Graham. And he can also block. So on what planet does Bangy live where Graham is preferable to Gronk in any way? Still waiting for a good answer to this.

 

Wide receivers should block, too. Everyone on offense outside of the QB needs to block. You're not a shitty WR if you can't block, but it's not rocket science to say it helps your team more when you can. To say blocking has NO VALUE from a TE... quite frankly, I'm shocked you would make such an assertion.

 

I didn't know you were still referring to Bangy's post. I'll take the L on that one. Lol.

 

But still, I'm not saying that it has no value at all. What I am saying however is that that value, when compared to the amount of value a TE can have as a receiver is marginal, at best.

[Sarge+ 3,436]

 

I didn't know you were still referring to Bangy's post. I'll take the L on that one. Lol.

 

But still, I'm not saying that it has no value at all. What I am saying however is that that value, when compared to the amount of value a TE can have as a receiver is marginal, at best.

 

For the record, I do agree that Graham is an awesome receiving threat. The only person in here that doesn't is JD, but you guys are getting trolled, quite honestly.

 

But even in spite of that, I think the discussion that came out of that trolling is pretty cool. I think if two tight ends are close in receiving ability, then I would take the better blocker of the two any day. But as you said, none of the other TE's outside of Gronk are close to him, so for now it's not much of an issue.

[56AceInDaPlace 110]

Only logical reason I could see Bangs post having any substance.. is by default. Gronk health taking him out. That's it. If he is heathly, he is the best tightend in NFL. If he continues to get hurt and miss so much time, only then could Graham take the spot. Due to default.

[BwareDWare94 723]

Sounds very much like another stupid argument I've heard a lot. "All Tim Tebow does is win games."

 

You're acting like Graham scored his TDs in a vacuum, solely due to him, which, ironically enough, downplays other things like blocking from other people. He's a big guy with no other real redzone threat for an offense that, for most of his career, was one of the most prolific passing offenses in the NFL that was also known for running up scores in garbage time, especially the year Brees broke the yardage record. It's no surprise that he has a lot of scores. And I'm not saying he's not a great player. Unlike Favre, I'd love him on my team. But as far as TEs go he's 4th or 5th in the league to me. I'll take a versatile player at the TE position over someone who is purely a pass-catcher in most situations.

 

1. Gronkowski

.

.

.

.

2. Olsen

3. Witten

4. Graham/Vernon

 

I am completely spacing on who the Olsen is.

[ATL_Predator+ 1,196]

 

I am completely spacing on who the Olsen is.

[DonovanMcnabb for H.O.F 2,241]

 

I am completely spacing on who the Olsen is.

 

The Bears drafted him, he was there for a while before now he's in Carolina.

[Favre4Ever+ 4,476]

 

I am completely spacing on who the Olsen is.

 

Greg Olsen. Sometimes mistaken for a homeless man.

 

 

 

[seanbrock 1,684]

Ok, first off the only one of these guys any of your are talking about that's anything special as a blocker is Rob Gronkowski. Jason Witten is pretty good but he's not at all what he once was as a receiver imo, so how exactly in the fuck are you ranking guys ahead of Graham who are marginally better blockers but nowhere near him as a receiver/red zone target?

[Favre4Ever+ 4,476]

Ok, first off the only one of these guys any of your are talking about that's anything special as a blocker is Rob Gronkowski. Jason Witten is pretty good but he's not at all what he once was as a receiver imo, so how exactly in the fuck are you ranking guys ahead of Graham who are marginally better blockers but nowhere near him as a receiver/red zone target?

 

 

Witten caught a higher % of the passes thrown his way... He averaged more yards per catch. He averaged more yards running after the catch.... He dropped fewer passes.... He fumbled less. Granted, he scored fewer TDs.. But looking at the weapons of Dallas and the weapons of New Orleans, that isn't exactly surprising.

 

Witten > Graham

 

[seanbrock 1,684]

Well, it makes sense Witten would catch a higher % of passes given that he wasn't getting mobbed by opposing defense. Watch a game. Jimmy Graham dictated everything opposing defenses did when he was on the field. Stats aren't everything dawg.

[Favre4Ever+ 4,476]

Well, it makes sense Witten would catch a higher % of passes given that he wasn't getting mobbed by opposing defense. Watch a game. Jimmy Graham dictated everything opposing defenses did when he was on the field. Stats aren't everything dawg.

 

Compare the weapons in Dallas compared to the weapons in New Orleans. Dallas' top 2 options would be easy #1s in New Orleans and any New Orleans WR is going to be no better than 3rd in the Dallas DC.

 

See how that works? We can make excuses in circles all day.

[DonovanMcnabb for H.O.F 2,241]

Graham had his worst season since his rookie year last season. Even so, he was playing with a sprained shoulder virtually all season that clearly affected him.

 

And let's not act like Graham and Witten had the same difficulty of catches, or receive the same level of attention. Brees throws the ball to Graham like Stafford throws the ball to CJ, not dump offs when all other options are unavailable...

[Favre4Ever+ 4,476]

Graham had his worst season since his rookie year last season. Even so, he was playing with a sprained shoulder virtually all season that clearly affected him.

 

And let's not act like Graham and Witten had the same difficulty of catches, or receive the same level of attention. Brees throws the ball to Graham like Stafford throws the ball to CJ, not dump offs when all other options are unavailable...

Disappointing and worst season of his career, obviously still the clear 2nd best TE in the league.

 

I am not sure that really a good thing. People have complained in the past that Brees almost had tunnel vision for Graham. The result was some big numbers and great plays, but ultimately was detrimental to the offense. I bet the Saints offense gets better without Graham. Just like the Packers launched forward without Finley.