Ben Shapiro

[BwareDWare94 723]

You have to have the capacity to kill yourself and then a bunch of small factors playing a role. Stressors are minor. The mental illness that they exacerbate is a much, much bigger reason

[Sarge+ 3,436]

Gotta agree about bullying. It's never going away.

 

Only thing you can do is stand up for yourself. I did. I'm a normal sized guy now, but I was on the smaller side of kids in my school growing up. I took it for a while up until about 7th grade and I decked some kid. After that the bullies at school heard about it and turned their attention elsewhere.

 

Bullies only go after the weakest targets. You don't have to be tough, but it doesn't take a lot to prevent yourself from being the easiest target. They don't like any resistance at all.

[OSUViking 505]

You have to have the capacity to kill yourself and then a bunch of small factors playing a role. Stressors are minor. The mental illness that they exacerbate is a much, much bigger reason

*sigh*

I agree that bullying is exaggerated to high fucking hell. I agree that there are constructive ways to handle it if it does occur. I agree that suicide is more complex than being bullied.

 

You are still wrong. None of those links did anything to support your argument that external factors don't influence depression; literally all of them regurgitated the point that bullying alone does not cause suicide.

 

Here is what I am saying. A person is homosexual or transgender. They do not have depression or other mental health issues that can result in depression. They may experience difficulties from stigma and bullying, but odds are they are fine.

 

Now, take that person and give them a disorder like depression, bipolar, or a psychotic disorder. Those all have high rates of suicide. The isolation they experience from the stigma around homosexuality and transsexuality (or from blatant abuse or harm from others) 100% makes their conditions harder to handle. They are more easily stressed. Stress is awful for mental health issues. It can spiral out of control and result in suicide attempts.

 

That is objective truth. Cause and fucking effect. What is so hard to comprehend here? Many mental health issues arise specifically because of harmful, stressful, or neglectful environments during youth and teenager years.

 

Edit: I'm not even saying the presence of a mental disorder guarantees a suicide attempt or even suicidal ideation. People experience their conditions differently. But external factors will always affect the well-being of someone with mental health issues. It's why doctors emphasize putting themselves in relaxing or stress-reduced environments as much as possible.

Edited August 21, 2017 by OSUViking

[Thanatos 2,847]

 

 

See here is what is going to happen. You are going to make a rational statement, then the leftists get here. They are going to reply with,"Instead of raising kids to stand up to be bullies, lets raise our kids not to be bullies." ignoring all rationality and trying to continue to live in their fantasy world where all people can be good. I agree with you, sometimes, people are going to be assholes for no particular reason at all (here comes the,"You mean just like you", yes just like me). The question is do you have a enough self-worth and self-respect to do something about it.

 

Bullying will never go away, ever. Raise a fighter. Just make sure they know that not every dissenting opinion is hate speech, and their opinion is not the only valid one in the universe because then you create a cry bully.

 

Your continued stereotyping of people here into one group solely because they disagree with you on certain issues is ridiculously petty.

 

OSU is the farthest thing from a leftist, yet he also disagrees with Bware on this one. Try thinking of people as not being "leftist" or "rightist" but as people who have a variety of opinions and don't fit into one box. At least, on here. The vast majority of people on here can at least hold a competent conversation on a variety of issues and don't go straight down party lines in their beliefs.

 

No one is making your argument you claim "leftists" will make. You are just throwing out a strawman to make your own argument look better. Bware is saying bullying is not a factor at all, that's what we have an issue with.

 

I mean, in Bware's own article, it cites this: One study by researchers at Yale University estimated the risk of suicidal ideation was between two to nine times higher for youth who were bullied.

Edited August 21, 2017 by Thanatos

[Omerta+ 1,206]

Your continued stereotyping of people here into one group solely because they disagree with you on certain issues is ridiculously petty.

 

OSU is the farthest thing from a leftist, yet he also disagrees with Bware on this one. Try thinking of people as not being "leftist" or "rightist" but as people who have a variety of opinions and don't fit into one box. At least, on here. The vast majority of people on here can at least hold a competent conversation on a variety of issues and don't go straight down party lines in their beliefs.

 

No one is making your argument you claim "leftists" will make. You are just throwing out a strawman to make your own argument look better. Bware is saying bullying is not a factor at all, that's what we have an issue with.

 

I mean, in Bware's own article, it cites this: One study by researchers at Yale University estimated the risk of suicidal ideation was between two to nine times higher for youth who were bullied.

Wasnt talking to OSU, I respect his opinion on this as well as BWARE's. Way to prove my point though, nice outrage sweetheart.

 

LOL. I say the same thing as sarge as far as my main point goes, and you dont care. Wonder why that is. Outrage looks good on you though. Please tell us all how you are right and in no way biased lol.

Edited August 21, 2017 by Omerta

[BwareDWare94 723]

I don't mean that bullying definitively isn't a factor. I mean that we can't say with certainty that it is. I would say the only definitive similarity between all suicides is that in each case the individual had the capacity to kill his or herself. Very clearly not everybody can do it. I think we will discover eventually that much like dopamine and seratonin not being adequately produced with depression, some chemical that affects decision making, or certain damage to the brain has occurred with the majority of suicides.

 

I stand firmly against the media narrative that bullying causes suicide. It shrinks the deceased person greatly to paint their troubles as mere meanness on behalf of other people. We at this site might know better but the majority of our country does not. We have to address problems as if we are 90% mouthbreathers because there's people like us, then there's a fraction of 1% who are fucking brilliant, and then the rest are unfathomably stupid.

 

We have to address every part of the issue or all the people who can't talk without drooling will take one thing and run with it, which we've seen happen with many, many issues.

[Thanatos 2,847]

Wasnt talking to OSU, I respect his opinion on this as well as BWARE's. Way to prove my point though, nice outrage sweetheart.

 

LOL. I say the same thing as sarge as far as my main point goes, and you dont care. Wonder why that is. Outrage looks good on you though. Please tell us all how you are right and in no way biased lol.

 

I'm not outraged just because I disagree with you, *sweetheart*.

 

Nowhere did I say you were talking to OSU. My point is that people disagree with Bware on this who are not leftists, so just because people disagree with him does not make them leftists or irrational.

 

And no one is saying what you are claiming. This is all you do anymore and its rather sad. You just come up with an argument no one is actually pushing, and then attack that argument. When someone calls you on your bullshit, you revert to trolling.

 

Did you have the same main point as Sarge? Maybe it got diluted by your first two paragraphs throwing up a strawman about people who you think will disagree with you in a condescending-as-fuck matter. Here's an idea: Maybe Sarge doesn't act like a complete and total asswipe when he puts forward his ideas and- who would have ever thought this- it causes people to respect his opinion and listen to him. Imagine that! Treat people like you're both adults and don't be an asshole and people are more likely to treat you the same!

 

This is a complicated issue and you are essentially patting someone on the head and acting like they're a child because they disagree with you instead of being an adult and debating it.

Edited August 21, 2017 by Thanatos

[Thanatos 2,847]

I don't mean that bullying definitively isn't a factor. I mean that we can't say with certainty that it is. I would say the only definitive similarity between all suicides is that in each case the individual had the capacity to kill his or herself. Very clearly not everybody can do it. I think we will discover eventually that much like dopamine and seratonin not being adequately produced with depression, some chemical that affects decision making, or certain damage to the brain has occurred with the majority of suicides.

 

I stand firmly against the media narrative that bullying causes suicide. It shrinks the deceased person greatly to paint their troubles as mere meanness on behalf of other people. We at this site might know better but the majority of our country does not. We have to address problems as if we are 90% mouthbreathers because there's people like us, then there's a fraction of 1% who are fucking brilliant, and then the rest are unfathomably stupid.

 

We have to address every part of the issue or all the people who can't talk without drooling will take one thing and run with it, which we've seen happen with many, many issues.

 

I think we can most certainly say bullying is a factor. There are simply too many studies out there that point to it as a factor.

 

How much of a factor? That's debatable.

 

I do agree that suicide is far more complicated and we can't reduce it down to one factor. I don't think that's what people are saying here though. Bullying can push someone over the edge, and repeated constant bullying can put the idea in someone's head in the first place would be my stance.

 

Are you trying to say that bullying will never push someone over? Or you just don't know if it will or not?

[Sarge+ 3,436]

For what it's worth, I believe bullied kids DO kill themselves at higher rates than kids who aren't. I only think we need to change the way we deal with bullying. We do teach kids to run away and tell someone instead of fighting back. Maybe they truly don't want to fight back based on other factors such as other mental conditions or a lack of confidence. But really I think they are afraid of being sent home with a letter and a phone call for fighting. It shouldn't be that way. Any real parent should allow their child to fight back if they are being threatened physically especially.

[Thanatos 2,847]

The issue now is that if a kid does that, the school sends BOTH of them to the principal's office. So parents teach their kids to just go to authority because they're both gonna get in trouble.

 

And I mean, to a certain extent, I understand that. I don't want a kid body-slamming another one into the ground because he's getting picked on. But at the same time, the idea of immediately rushing to a teacher is just wrong, IMO.

 

Some friends of mine have this dynamic in their family. The kids tell on each other all the time and the mom and the dad encourage them to do so. Not just "she's picking on me" but anytime they're doing something wrong.

 

And yeah, that's just not preparing them for real life at all.

Edited August 21, 2017 by Thanatos

[Omerta+ 1,206]

I'm not outraged just because I disagree with you, *sweetheart*.

 

Nowhere did I say you were talking to OSU. My point is that people disagree with Bware on this who are not leftists, so just because people disagree with him does not make them leftists or irrational.

 

And no one is saying what you are claiming. This is all you do anymore and its rather sad. You just come up with an argument no one is actually pushing, and then attack that argument. When someone calls you on your bullshit, you revert to trolling.

 

Did you have the same main point as Sarge? Maybe it got diluted by your first two paragraphs throwing up a strawman about people who you think will disagree with you in a condescending-as-fuck matter. Here's an idea: Maybe Sarge doesn't act like a complete and total asswipe when he puts forward his ideas and- who would have ever thought this- it causes people to respect his opinion and listen to him. Imagine that! Treat people like you're both adults and don't be an asshole and people are more likely to treat you the same!

 

This is a complicated issue and you are essentially patting someone on the head and acting like they're a child because they disagree with you instead of being an adult and debating it.

U mad bro ? I dont know how many times I have to say this. I am no longer debating you. Why you try to draw me in anymore I cant figure it out. Anybody else wants to debate my point about bullies fine, I just refuse to debate with a hypocrite.

 

How did you not understand the nuance in my posts lol.

[Thanatos 2,847]

U mad bro ? I dont know how many times I have to say this. I am no longer debating you. Why you try to draw me in anymore I cant figure it out. Anybody else wants to debate my point about bullies fine, I just refuse to debate with a hypocrite.

 

How did you not understand the nuance in my posts lol.

 

And yet you keep getting drawn in and are, in fact, using the exact same arguments you accuse me of using, lmao.

 

It's funny when the biggest hypocrite keeps calling others hypocrites.

 

Also love how when you get called out on bullshit you just go back to "I can't believe you didn't understand what I was saying." Classic trolling.

 

It's also funny that you think I was a hypocrite one time so you won't debate with me anymore. You got a lot of posts on this site, I bet you I can find multiple times you screwed up in a debate or otherwise. But I don't act like a child and put my hands over my ears and refuse to talk with people because somebody messed up one time on the internet! Oh no!

Edited August 21, 2017 by Thanatos

[Sarge+ 3,436]

The issue now is that if a kid does that, the school sends BOTH of them to the principal's office. So parents teach their kids to just go to authority because they're both gonna get in trouble.

 

And I mean, to a certain extent, I understand that. I don't want a kid body-slamming another one into the ground because he's getting picked on. But at the same time, the idea of immediately rushing to a teacher is just wrong, IMO.

 

Some friends of mine have this dynamic in their family. The kids tell on each other all the time and the mom and the dad encourage them to do so. Not just "she's picking on me" but anytime they're doing something wrong.

 

And yeah, that's just not preparing them for real life at all.

 

Right, people who always play the victim will always be the victim. There needs to be a mindset shift.

[BwareDWare94 723]

Yeah it's time to let kids just fight again. Separate them, put them in detention that night and the initial bully in detention for the rest of the week and move the fuck on.

Edited August 21, 2017 by BwareDWare94

[OSUViking 505]

Stare someone in the eye and don't look away. Do whatever is possible to restraint outward signs of emotion (fear, aggression, etc). Speak very plainly that continuing to mess around when it's not welcome is not worth the trouble it will cause on their end.

 

Admittedly I've never had to use this but I've witnessed it a few times. Not showing fear, being calm, and blankly staring really fuck with people; even their friends were freaked out.

[Omerta+ 1,206]

Yeah it's time to let kids just fight again. Separate them, put them in detention that night and the initial bully in detention for the rest of the week and move the fuck on.

 

I would not ever give the kid who was defending himself detention. I dont believe in the mutually assured destruction concept of punishment a lot of schools have gone to. It cultivates an environment of secrecy which can only lead to worse things. Hang the bully up by his buster browns, and be on with it.

[blotsfan 2,112]

Fuck I go incommunicado for one day and I miss a metric shitton of stupidity.

[BwareDWare94 723]

If your boy bullies mine your boy will come home with a busted lip that he 100% deserved and mine will come home knowing he stood up for himself.

 

Raise strong children, not lifelong victims

[Sarge+ 3,436]

Fuck I go incommunicado for one day and I miss a metric shitton of stupidity.

 

But how can you miss yourself?

[Omerta+ 1,206]

If your boy bullies mine your boy will come home with a busted lip that he 100% deserved and mine will come home knowing he stood up for himself.

 

Raise strong children, not lifelong victims

 

I think a lot of people don't think about the unintended consequences of not allowing what you are saying. I remember as a kid we used to get into fist fights a lot and it VERY RARELY got serious, and we had to learn how to solve our own problems. Now, when parents are constantly getting involved in children's quarrels, you are not giving them the opportunity to figure out their own problems, and they go through their childhood without learning the necessary skills to be able solve problems on our own.

 

This goes beyond just fighting though. This is also valuable in learning when NOT to fight. Even if you could win the fight, is it worth taking that shot to the dome to be first in line ? Things like that are not really thought about by adults anymore. It also teaches social skills and knowing what you can and cant say and how you can and cant say them to people.

 

My brother learns this lesson the hard way all the time. I have 4 brothers and one is gay. The one who is gay is always talking to people in real life like he does on the interenet, at least among the brothers. He is always getting his ass whipped by one of my brothers in particular because he has not yet learned that the anonymity that the internet provides does not translate to real life, and you have to be able to deal with the consequences of that. I think it would do kids good if there parents stayed out of these things, and let these kids catch a few ass whoopins.

[BwareDWare94 723]

 

I think a lot of people don't think about the unintended consequences of not allowing what you are saying. I remember as a kid we used to get into fist fights a lot and it VERY RARELY got serious, and we had to learn how to solve our own problems. Now, when parents are constantly getting involved in children's quarrels, you are not giving them the opportunity to figure out their own problems, and they go through their childhood without learning the necessary skills to be able solve problems on our own.

 

This goes beyond just fighting though. This is also valuable in learning when NOT to fight. Even if you could win the fight, is it worth taking that shot to the dome to be first in line ? Things like that are not really thought about by adults anymore. It also teaches social skills and knowing what you can and cant say and how you can and cant say them to people.

 

My brother learns this lesson the hard way all the time. I have 4 brothers and one is gay. The one who is gay is always talking to people in real life like he does on the interenet, at least among the brothers. He is always getting his ass whipped by one of my brothers in particular because he has not yet learned that the anonymity that the internet provides does not translate to real life, and you have to be able to deal with the consequences of that. I think it would do kids good if there parents stayed out of these things, and let these kids catch a few ass whoopins.

Nobody wants kids to fight but winning and losing fights teaches lessons. A fight won teaches you to defend yourself but also shows you how nasty it gets when two people don't control their tempers. Losing fights teaches you that sometimes you just aren't going to win and get your way. I would prefer that fighting doesn't happen but it does come with life lessons. It's not the end of the world if a couple of kids get into a scuffle, and schools need to quit treating little fights like federal crimes.

[Cherry 1,302]

 

But how can you miss yourself?

 

RIP Bloots again for like fourth time this week

[blotsfan 2,112]

No U

[OSUViking 505]

Nothing stupid about saying the victim mentality is cancerous and entirely unproductive. I'm not even saying ignore the emotions we feel, but letting ourselves bask in those feelings because we're a "victim" literally does nothing to solve the problem.

[BwareDWare94 723]

Recently Shapiro spoke at UC Berkely, and preventing ANTIFA (why do we keep calling them anti-fascist? in the media? They are the very definition of fascist. I don't care what their name is supposed to be an abbreviation of) from harming people cost 1.5 million. Police forces did their jobs admirably and a few snowflakes got arrested. Shapiro gave an incredible speech and interacted tactfully and respectfully with people he disagreed with. Maybe there is hope in America.