Tedy Bruschi says Derrick Brooks is not a 1st ballot HOFer

[AllYouNeedIsLovie 377]

Rumors of Tedy Bruschi taking a shot at Derrick Brooks on ESPN were swirling out there for more than a week, and the dean of Tampa Bay sports radio, Steve Duemig of WDAE-AM 620, fielded his share of calls about the slam. Bruschi said on the air that Brooks is not a first ballot Hall of Fame selection. Brooks acknowledged he was aware of it and said “some things are better left unsaid.†However, Brooks kept talking anyway. “My resume says it all,†Brooks said. “[bruschi] has an opinion and I give it to him. …If he’s wrong, he’ll hear it from me. It’ll be three years of pent-up†anger. Brooks is eligible for induction in three years. Of course, every Bucs fan knows Brooks was a five-time All-Pro, earned a defensive player of the year award, was an anchor of arguably the best defense the NFL has seen and didn’t miss a start in his final 13 seasons and made 11 Pro Bowls.

 

Source: JoeBucsFan.com

 

I don't know Bruschi, looking at his resume, I think he deserves it. Not to mention he was a leader of one of the best defenses of all time.

[Krawnka 282]

I'm interested as to why Bruschi thinks he's not....his resume is more than adequate.

[SteVo+ 3,702]

I guess it depends on the other guys in the class with him, but when I think of Brooks, I think "first ballot HOF."

[BucD+ 648]

Bruschi is a moron.

 

The end.

[Krawnka 282]

11 Pro Bowls in 13 years and a Super Bowl ring, what more do you need?

[Turry 755]

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/B/BrooDe00.htm

 

Looks like HOF type of numbers to me.

[GA_Eagle 595]

I think you need to not be a 4-3 OLB to be a first ballot hofer.

 

edit: sweet, I got negged for this.

Edited May 20, 2011 by GA_Eagle

[Shotgun 442]

Derrick Brooks not being a first ballot would be a travesty. He's one of the best OLB's to play the game. Without him there is no Super Bowl and the Tampa-2 wouldn't have become as big as it did.

Edited May 19, 2011 by Shotgun

[GA_Eagle 595]

Derrick Brooks not being a first ballot would be a travesty. He's one of the best MLB's to play the game. Without him there is no Super Bowl and the Tampa-2 wouldn't have become as big as it did.

 

really.

[Bay 2,003]

*ROLB

[GA_Eagle 595]

There are 2 first ballot 4-3 OLBers in the hall and Chuck Bednarik is just as well known for being a MLB as he is for playing SAM and center. The other is Jam Ham. I just don't see any way Brooks measures up to those two for football legacy.

 

Its tough to get in as a 4-3 olb at all. I think there are 6 or 7 in the hall and some of them weren't strictly 4-3 guys or also played MLB, sometimes in their best years.

 

Its also tough to bet a first ballot nod on defense.

[Turry 755]

There are 2 first ballot 4-3 OLBers in the hall and Chuck Bednarik is just as well known for being a MLB as he is for playing SAM and center. The other is Jam Ham. I just don't see any way Brooks measures up to those two for football legacy.

 

Its tough to get in as a 4-3 olb at all. I think there are 6 or 7 in the hall and some of them weren't strictly 4-3 guys or also played MLB, sometimes in their best years.

 

Its also tough to bet a first ballot nod on defense.

 

LT?

[Shotgun 442]

really.

 

OLB, just a typo.

[FIDDYDEUCE 81]

LT?

 

I believe LT played OLB in a 3-4...

[KiLaSix9+ 398]

That's a stupid argument. I'm not taking a shot at you GA but it shouldn't matter whether you played inside or out, or in a 4-3. The man was an all-pro linebacker, led the Bucs to their only superbowl and was the key to one of the NFL's greatest defenses of all time. Not to mention he won the DPOY that same year. I mean, the guy had a great career. Definitely HOF worthy.

 

I understand that only 2 other guys that played at his position in the same type of defense got in but that doesn't mean we measure him up to those two. Maybe there just haven't been any guys worth putting in since them two. It all depends on the guys who will be eligible that year but I can definitely see him being 1st ballot.

[GA_Eagle 595]

That's a stupid argument. I'm not taking a shot at you GA but it shouldn't matter whether you played inside or out, or in a 4-3. The man was an all-pro linebacker, led the Bucs to their only superbowl and was the key to one of the NFL's greatest defenses of all time. Not to mention he won the DPOY that same year. I mean, the guy had a great career. Definitely HOF worthy.

 

 

I don't think its all that stupid. Thats the way the Hall works. Its not fair but what do you want? He's not a QB or a RB. He plays defense and not at a flashy position where he can amass stats like sacks or ints. His chances of being in the first ballot are diminished. Guys like Chris Hanburger have similar stats and all pro and pro bowl numbers and had to wait 20+ years after. He likely won't wait that long but it just shows that its a tough position to even make the hall at, let alone be a first ballot guy.

 

I'm aware he was an all pro linebacker and he amassed a worthless stat like tackles, which is often misrepresented. At least two other guys were on a similar tackling pace in his era, though they didn't start as many games. Nor did they play for such a high profile defense with multiple other future hall of famers. He will be measured against all previous members of his position AND every other position, so I don't see how this a stupid argument. The commitee is going to say "How does he measure up against the best ever at his position?" if he is worthy then they are going to say "How does he measure up against ALL other first ballot guys?" "How does he measure up to currently eligible players?" etc etc etc.

 

So looking at the track record of his position and trying to see what the committee looks for in a first ballot guy at his position is far from stupid, imo.

 

He's not a member of the 20-20 club. This is a big knock since his claim to fame is being an all around linebacker. Yet he never reached the milestone that the best all around guys hope to get. He will be measured against guys like Ray Lewis even though Ray played in the middle, people will say "Now that's what a first ballot LB looks like."

 

I don't really buy this "changing the game" argument. I think the Tampa 2 was a fad that couldn't work for everyone. He changed the way teams looked at LB for about 4 seasons and then they realized that the Tampa 2 was figured out except for a few very sharp defensive minds with the right talent on the team and that installing it was probably not worth it. Its not like he was the special player that helped 3-4 come into existence at the pro level (btw, Curley Culp isn't in the Hall.)

[Krawnka 282]

His stats are greater than the other linebackers that retired in the same year (Junior Seau and Zach Thomas) as far as Pro Bowls, and he's the only one of the 3 with a ring.

 

I realize that he's not just competing with the other players in his position, other players, of note, that retired the same year are:

 

Kurt Warner

Jason Elam

Jeff Feagles

Isaac Bruce

Antonio Pierce

Chris Samuels

Walter Jones

Kevin Mawae

Bertrand Berry

[GA_Eagle 595]

Don't forget about all other eligible players.

 

Here are this year's finalists:

 

hannon Sharpe – Tight End – 1990-99, 2002-03 Denver Broncos, 2000-01 Baltimore Ravens<--2011 Inductee

 

Jerome Bettis– Running Back – 1993-95 Los Angeles/St. Louis Rams, 1996-2005 Pittsburgh Steelers

 

Tim Brown – Wide Receiver/Kick Returner – 1988-2003 Los Angeles/Oakland Raiders, 2004 Tampa Bay Buccaneers

 

Cris Carter – Wide Receiver – 1987-89 Philadelphia Eagles, 1990-2001 Minnesota Vikings, 2002 Miami Dolphins

 

Dermontti Dawson– Center – 1988-2000 Pittsburgh Steelers

 

Richard Dent – Defensive End – 1983-1993, 1995 Chicago Bears, 1994 San Francisco 49ers, 1996 Indianapolis Colts, 1997 Philadelphia Eagles<--2011 inductee

 

Chris Doleman– Defensive End/Linebacker – 1985-1993, 1999 Minnesota Vikings, 1994-95 Atlanta Falcons, 1996-98 San Francisco 49ers

 

Marshall Faulk – Running Back – 1994-98 Indianapolis Colts, 1999-2005 St. Louis Rams<--2011 inductee

 

Charles Haley – Defensive End/Linebacker – 1986-1991, 1999 San Francisco 49ers, 1992-96 Dallas Cowboys

 

*Chris Hanburger– Linebacker – 1965-1978 Washington Redskins<--2011 inductee

 

Cortez Kennedy– Defensive Tackle – 1990-2000 Seattle Seahawks

 

Curtis Martin – Running Back – 1995-97 New England Patriots, 1998-2005 New York Jets

 

Andre Reed – Wide Receiver – 1985-1999 Buffalo Bills, 2000 Washington Redskins

 

*Les Richter – Linebacker – 1954-1962 Los Angeles Rams<--2011 inductee

 

Willie Roaf– Tackle – 1993-2001 New Orleans Saints, 2002-05 Kansas City Chiefs

 

Ed Sabol– Founder/President/Chairman – 1964-1995 NFL Films<--2011 inductee

 

Deion Sanders – Cornerback/Kick Returner/Punt Returner – 1989-1993 Atlanta Falcons, 1994 San Francisco 49ers, 1995-99 Dallas Cowboys, 2000 Washington Redskins, 2004-05 Baltimore Ravens<--2011 inductee

 

try and figure out who will still be around when Brooks is eligible, not to mention the ones who will be new between now and then.

Edited May 19, 2011 by GA_Eagle

[KiLaSix9+ 398]

Like I said, he shouldn't be a first ballot IF there are others more deserving. But to say he won't make it because we have to compare him to other LBs in the HOF or because he doesn't have flashy stats?

 

Hell, might as well never put another linebacker in there since LT. No one will ever make the kind of impact he made. And if the committee is looking at him, they'd be smart enough to evaluate his career based on the position and defense he played on. The Tampa 2 relies on pressure from the front 4 rather than sending in LBs thus he is going to have less sacks.

 

Tim Brown was never an elite receiver. He was just always consistently good. Reliable. Nothing amazing like a Randy Moss or Jerry Rice but still a long, succesful career. Would you not say he makes the HOF?

[GA_Eagle 595]

Like I said, he shouldn't be a first ballot IF there are others more deserving. But to say he won't make it because we have to compare him to other LBs in the HOF or because he doesn't have flashy stats?

 

Hell, might as well never put another linebacker in there since LT. No one will ever make the kind of impact he made. And if the committee is looking at him, they'd be smart enough to evaluate his career based on the position and defense he played on. The Tampa 2 relies on pressure from the front 4 rather than sending in LBs thus he is going to have less sacks.

 

Tim Brown was never an elite receiver. He was just always consistently good. Reliable. Nothing amazing like a Randy Moss or Jerry Rice but still a long, succesful career. Would you not say he makes the HOF?

 

Huh? He either is or isn't a first ballot guy. I never said he shouldn't be in the hall. But I agree with Bruschi that the first ballot isn't a likely spot for him. If there are more deserving in front of him then he isn't a first ballot guy.

 

He will be compared to his predecessors at the position. Its not avoidable. He will be compared to those others who are eligible. not avoidable.

He will be compared to all other members of the hall to determine how eligible he is. not avoidable.

 

I dunno where you are going with the no other LB after LT comment. that doesn't even make sense.

 

Tim Brown hasn't made it to the hall yet, he obviously isn't a first ballot guy. I dunno where that's relevant to your argument since it just proves that great players don't always make it on their first try. I got some beter ones than that though. Cris Carter and Dermontti Dawson didn't make it their first try. Then guys like Madden, Ogden, Sapp, Roaf, Will Sheilds will all be eligible by the time Brooks is to create a bigger logjam.

 

Reference to the sacks: it certainly doesn't help his first ballot case. Where are his prestigious numbers? Ammassed tackle totals. Great. Gimme something else to make him a first balloter.

Edited May 19, 2011 by GA_Eagle

[Krawnka 282]

He had:

 

26 Interceptions, not bad for a Linebacker.

24 Forced Fumbles.

[GA_Eagle 595]

He had:

 

26 Interceptions, not bad for a Linebacker.

24 Forced Fumbles.

 

More like it.

 

Neither of these numbers makes a player transcendent though. Even when viewed together. I want first ballot guys to be in the best ever argument, especially at a position other than QB where they let everyone in right away. Is Brooks in your best ever arguments?

[Krawnka 282]

He's in my "pretty damned good" arguments.

 

Derrick Thomas is in my "best ever" arguments..even if it is a little bit of homer showing...

 

 

I know it took a long time for DT to make it into the HoF, but he didn't have a ring, which seems to be a huge obstacle to overcome to get in.

 

(Even though he had 126 Sacks and 41 Forced Fumbles and 19 Fumble Recoveries in 10 years....)

Edited May 19, 2011 by Krawnka

[GA_Eagle 595]

He's in my "pretty damned good" arguments.

 

Derrick Thomas is in my "best ever" arguments..even if it is a little bit of homer showing...

 

 

I know it took a long time for DT to make it into the HoF, but he didn't have a ring, which seems to be a huge obstacle to overcome to get in.

 

(Even though he had 126 Sacks and 41 Forced Fumbles and 19 Fumble Recoveries in 10 years....)

 

A ring. I would say thats far less important to any player that's not a QB. They might help a little for sure, but unless its a QB I'm not gonna say that its all that important.

 

Brooks has a nice thing over Thomas though. His defense was dominant throughout much of his career and he was the unofficial leader of it, so it would actually help his case.

 

I just don't think the first ballot is for him due to a number of factors. He plays a position that doesn't get flashy stats. Its almost like putting a FB in in the first ballot. Its not likely in this era. And for him there is something else, other guys play "his position" in that there are a bunch of different types of linebackers and many of them DO get flashy stats, even if they are middle linebackers or play in 3-4, and he'll probably get measure against them, which is too bad since its really a completely different type of player.

 

There is already a long line of worthy players in front of him, as well which certainly doesn't help.

 

I'd say he has an outside shot at the first ballot, but a definite shot of getting in sooner or later.