Which Rookie Would You Want to Build Your Franchise Around?

[seanbrock 1,684]

Don't call Colby Fleener just a rookie TE. He's proven that he's a more than capable target just due to his size. T.Y. Hilton and Donnie Avery are young, but they are more than serviceable targets for Luck...and that Brazil guy too, along with Dwayne Allen who isn't really used for some reason but should be.

 

 

RGIII has Alfred Morris, Pierre Garcon, Santana Moss....and the rest are injured. Fred Davis was a target early but he went down..along with numerous other Redskins

 

 

Luck has 6 targets, including 2 TE's and no running game

 

RGIII has 2 passing targets, his own legs, and Alfred Morris.

 

 

Don't act like Luck has nothing around him.

Fleener has done nothing. He's yet to even break 300 yards receiving. Dwayne Allen is actually having a better year but he still hasn't lit anyone up. Donnie Avery has done nothing until he came to Indy and Hilton is a 5'8" mid round draft pick. You act like the guy was put into an all star offense. Hardly the case. RGIII has a much better offense to work with.

[ATL_Predator+ 1,196]

Fleener has done nothing. He's yet to even break 300 yards receiving. Dwayne Allen is actually having a better year but he still hasn't lit anyone up. Donnie Avery has done nothing until he came to Indy and Hilton is a 5'8" mid round draft pick. You act like the guy was put into an all star offense. Hardly the case. RGIII has a much better offense to work with.

For some strange reason, you think it's ok to say "Other than Reggie Wayne, who does Luck have?"

 

Um...Reggie Wayne has had 7 straight 1000 yard receiving seasons, and last year he still had 960 yards with Curtis fucking Painter throwing to him. Reggie is a borderline HOF'er and he's still balling at his age. With him alone, Luck has veteran experience and more than serviceable receivers and TE's, and you know as well as I do that Fleener is capable of so much more.

 

I'm just saying, you can't just look past Reggie Wayne, because he makes a HUGE difference.

Edited December 8, 2012 by ATL

[Dutch 874]

It is easier for teams to focus on "one" great player then several good or serviceable players / play makers. Rg3 has a more stable offensive unit around him. He has more pieces and you cannot underestimate the value of having a running game; a rookie QBs best friend.

 

Edit: In the same sense, you can't underestimate the value of a 1st ballot caliber HoF player like Reggie Wayne but being a dual threat in the running game AND passing game is harder for def coordinators to game plan for then just 1 player in one phase of the game; the passing game.

Edited December 8, 2012 by dutchff7

[DonovanMcnabb for H.O.F 2,241]

Fleener has done nothing. He's yet to even break 300 yards receiving. Dwayne Allen is actually having a better year but he still hasn't lit anyone up. Donnie Avery has done nothing until he came to Indy and Hilton is a 5'8" mid round draft pick. You act like the guy was put into an all star offense. Hardly the case. RGIII has a much better offense to work with.

 

WHAT????

 

Color me confused.

[Bay 2,003]

Let's break it down:

 

RB's : Redskins

WR's: Colts:

TE's: Colts:

OL: Redskins

[ATL_Predator+ 1,196]

I think the Skins and Colts line are both....well not very good. Wouldn't say one is better than the other.

[Omerta+ 1,206]

WHAT????

 

Color me confused.

 

At full strength I could see his point. Their pass rush would put them over the top imo. At this point though I think they are both so shitty it is hard to give the edge between a shit hot dog and turd sandwich.

[AllYouNeedIsLovie 377]

Let's break it down:

 

RB's : Redskins

WR's: Colts:

TE's: Colts:

OL: Redskins

 

Agreed. Although with a healthy Fred Davis, I'd probably give the edge to the Skins for TE's.

[Bay 2,003]

Agreed. Although with a healthy Fred Davis, I'd probably give the edge to the Skins for TE's.

 

Yep, losing Fred Davis makes the 'skins TE's mostly ineffective right now.

[Gronk'd 15]

i disagree on WRs. I think the Skins have the better depth there. Garcon, Moss, Morgan, Hankerson. is better than Wayne, Hilton, Avery, Brazzers

[RazorStar 4,025]

It doesn't matter how talented Washington's line is, they run the ZBS, so they're instantly better than Indianapolis' line. Unless Indy somehow got a young Jim Otto, Will Shields and Anthony Munoz to start for them.

[seanbrock 1,684]

i disagree on WRs. I think the Skins have the better depth there. Garcon, Moss, Morgan, Hankerson. is better than Wayne, Hilton, Avery, Brazzers

This

[SteVo+ 3,702]

My feelings remain the same. Andrew Luck without question.

[Zack_of_Steel+ 3,014]

My feelings remain the same. Andrew Luck without question.

 

M'hmm. RGIII has looked better as a rookie, but Luck's got more potential and he's not a frail little twig that looks to run all of the time (or has plays designed for him to run often).

[SteVo+ 3,702]

M'hmm. RGIII has looked better as a rookie, but Luck's got more potential and he's not a frail little twig that looks to run all of the time (or has plays designed for him to run often).

 

Not to mention RGIII's already at 1 on the concussion count. And his style of play is only going to lend itself to getting more.

[Omerta+ 1,206]

I think it is Andrew Luck without question.

[seanbrock 1,684]

People overreact about Luck's INT's and low completion %. I think those things are to be expected of a rookie in Luck's situation. Look at his YPA. 7.1 is pretty good for having a 55% completion percentage. That tells me that he's throwing the ball down the field a lot and not just checking down. The Colts are treating him as if he was a veteran with the responsibility he's been given and he's responded pretty well. He's going to get better and it's pretty obvious he'll be a top QB within 3 years minimum. RGIII on the other hand is going to get beaten up on designed QB runs

[DonovanMcnabb for H.O.F 2,241]

i disagree on WRs. I think the Skins have the better depth there. Garcon, Moss, Morgan, Hankerson. is better than Wayne, Hilton, Avery, Brazzers

 

What about TEs?

 

Coby Fleener was considered a first round prospect, and Dwayne Allen was considered a early second round prospect.

 

They may be young, but they are both way more talented then any TE that RGIII has been throwing to. And a TE is a QB's best friend.

 

Better depth also doesn't say much. Santana Moss is a slot receiver, who has only managed to eclipse 1000 yards like, twice in his career, Garcon is a #2, TY Hilton may already be better then Morgan, and Hankerson can't separate to save his life consistently.

 

People overreact about Luck's INT's and low completion %. I think those things are to be expected of a rookie in Luck's situation. Look at his YPA. 7.1 is pretty good for having a 55% completion percentage. That tells me that he's throwing the ball down the field a lot and not just checking down. The Colts are treating him as if he was a veteran with the responsibility he's been given and he's responded pretty well. He's going to get better and it's pretty obvious he'll be a top QB within 3 years minimum. RGIII on the other hand is going to get beaten up on designed QB runs

 

Have you seen these interceptions?

 

Its one thing if you are asked to throw the ball a lot down the field and that leads to a fair share of picks in double coverage, etc. But most of these INTs thrown have been awful. Like, Christian Ponder awful. People have the right to overreact over his INTs.

[RazorStar 4,025]

His INT's have been awful precisely because he's a rookie. These are not things like pressure forcing a bad throw, these are throws where he has so much confidence in his players that he'll try to squeeze throws in impossible windows. There's hope that he'll learn from those throws, but they're still big rookie mistakes. When RG3 turns it over, they usually go for offensive TD's. >_>

[seanbrock 1,684]

RGIII down for the second time due to a run...

[CampinWithaMissingPerson 2,025]

Donovan is hellbent on proving to people RGIII > Luck.

 

They're both legit dude. RGIII definitely scares you though with his durability issues. He had them in college too. What a playmaker though.

 

I still like Luck in the long run. Having 9 wins, with that team, is astounding honestly. He has how many comeback victories already now? He makes mistakes for sure, but he also makes plays. All you can ask of a rookie. Luck reminds me of Elway honestly. With a slightly weaker arm. Same mobility, composure (Elway was known for comebacks), sees the field, keeps eyes down the field when scrambling. Great potential with Luck. God dammit. Why is life as a Jags fan so hard? Colts have Manning for 13 years, now we have to deal with Luck for another 13 or so? Not fair.

 

But seriously... The Colts actually have a WR named Brazzers?

[DonovanMcnabb for H.O.F 2,241]

His INT's have been awful precisely because he's a rookie. These are not things like pressure forcing a bad throw, these are throws where he has so much confidence in his players that he'll try to squeeze throws in impossible windows. There's hope that he'll learn from those throws, but they're still big rookie mistakes. When RG3 turns it over, they usually go for offensive TD's. >_>

 

Not on most of the dumb/awful throws he's made for interceptions. The ones against the Lions were all pretty much clean pocket outside of one where he stepped up in the pocket and there was noone within 3 yards of him. Same with the Pats and the Bears.

 

Donovan is hellbent on proving to people RGIII > Luck.

 

They're both legit dude. RGIII definitely scares you though with his durability issues. He had them in college too. What a playmaker though.

 

I still like Luck in the long run. Having 9 wins, with that team, is astounding honestly. He has how many comeback victories already now? He makes mistakes for sure, but he also makes plays. All you can ask of a rookie. Luck reminds me of Elway honestly. With a slightly weaker arm. Same mobility, composure (Elway was known for comebacks), sees the field, keeps eyes down the field when scrambling. Great potential with Luck. God dammit. Why is life as a Jags fan so hard? Colts have Manning for 13 years, now we have to deal with Luck for another 13 or so? Not fair.

 

But seriously... The Colts actually have a WR named Brazzers?

 

You do realize that I voted for Luck... Right?

 

At no point before, during or after the draft did I ever say Luck wasn't the better player, all I've ever argued is who's performed better. Same with during the regular season. I prefer RGIII's skill set but I have never said he's the better player.

 

Luck's performance this year has been far overrated. He's played well, for a rookie. But that's about where it ends. Excuse me for not feeding the unwarranted hype train.

[CampinWithaMissingPerson 2,025]

I wasn't referring to who you voted for — which I wouldn't of known anyways because I can't see who voted for who — I was referring to that other thread where you kept saying it made no sense that I ranked Luck ahead of RGIII for this year. I would state why I thought that, then you'd go on trying to get me to change my mind or admit I was wrong. I understand debate and all, but I'm not here to convert people to my opinions, just to express them.

 

I wouldn't say Luck's play is overrated really. You're saying that (I assume), due to his stats (Comp. % and INTs), and how those INTs were ugly ones. But when you have 6 game winning drives in your first 13 games, that's impressive. Hence the hype train (never said you should feed it either, I was merely humored by you trying to prove RGIII has less to work with on offense again.)

 

Now if you prefer RGIII's skill set, and think he's performing better, and you're not saying RGIII is the better player, or that Luck isn't the better player... who do you think is the better player? You voted for Luck, yet prefer RGIII, yet don't commit to either being the player and bring counter arguments to people who think Luck is the better player... pretty strange. But whatevs, do you my friend, I love me some RGIII too. He's made me some money as well these past two weeks.