D-Mac's Top One Hunna!!!

[DonovanMcnabb for H.O.F 2,241]

Me and a Lions fan on a different site made it, since only 2 people worked on this it's probably missing some guys, but we've been at it for like, a couple days.

 

This was based solely on the 2012 season.

The List:

 

 

1. Aaron Rodgers, QB, GB

2. J.J. Watt, DE, HST

3. Peyton Manning, QB, DEN

4. Calvin Johnson, WR, DET

5. Adrian Peterson, HB, MIN

6. Tom Brady, QB, NE

7. Geno Atkins, DT, CIN

8. Von Miller, OLB, DEN

9. Richard Sherman, CB, SEA

10. Patrick Willis, ILB, SF

 

11. Drew Brees, QB, NO

12. Cameron Wake, DE, MIA

13. Andre Johnson, WR, HST

14. Marshal Yanda, OG, BLT

15. Duane Brown, LT, HST

16. Aldon Smith, OLB, SF

17. Calais Campbell, DE, PHX

18. Clay Matthews, OLB, GB

19. Rob Gronkowski, TE, NE

 

20. Jamaal Charles, HB, KC

21. Jared Allen, DE, MIN

22. Justin Smith, DE, SF

23. Haloti Ngata, DE, BLT

24. Matt Ryan, QB, ATL

25. Eric Weddle, S, SD

26. Vincent Jackson, WR, TB

27. Jimmy Graham, TE, NO

28. Tony Romo, QB, DAL

29. Ben Roethlisberger, QB, PIT

 

30. Vince Wilfork, DT, NE

31. Charles Johnson, DE, CAR

32. Brandon Flowers, CB, KC

33. Charles Tillman, CB, CHI

34. A.J. Green, WR, CIN

35. Joe Thomas, LT, CLV

36. Robert Griffin III, QB, WAS

37. NaVorro Bowman, ILB, SF

38. Joe Staley, LT, SF

39. Ndmukong Suh, DT, DET

 

40. Muhammad Wilkerson, DE, NYJ

41. C.J. Spiller, HB, BUF

42. Brandon Marshall, WR, CHI

43. Dez Bryant, WR, DAL

44. Ryan Clady, LT, DEN

45. Nick Mangold, C, NYJ

46. Evan Mathis, OG, PHI

47. Heath Miller, TE, PIT

48. Marshawn Lynch, HB, SEA

49. Gerald McCoy, DT, TB

 

50. Derrick Johnson, ILB, KC

51. Reshad Jones, S, MIA

52. Jahri Evans, OG, NO

53. Doug Martin, HB, TB

54. Jason Witten, TE, DAL

55. Jason Pierre-Paul, DE, NYG

56. Mike Pouncey, C, MIA

57. Carl Nicks, OG, TB

58. Demariyus Thomas, WR, DEN

59. Jairus Byrd, S, BUF

 

60. Luke Kuechly, ILB, CAR

60. Michael Roos, LT, Titans

61. Chis Myers, C, HST

62. Eli Manning, QB, NYG

63. Kam Chacellor, S, SEA

64. Henry Melton, DT, CHI

65. Lance Briggs, OLB, CHI

66. DeMarcus Ware, OLB/DE, DAL

67. Antonio Cromartie, CB, NYJ

68. Dashon Goldson, S, TB

69. Champ Bailley, CB, DEN

 

70. Daryl Washington, ILB, PHX

71. Arian Foster, HB, HST

72. Andrew Whitworth, LT, CIN

73. Mike Iupati, OG, SF

74. Russell Wilson, QB, SEA

75. Ray Rice, HB, BLT

76. Chris Long, DE, STL

77. Trent Williams, LT, WAS

78. Russell Okung, LT, SEA

79. Joe Haden, CB, CLV

 

80. Anthony Spencer, DE, DAL

81. Bobby Wagner, ILB, SEA

82. Earl Thomas, S, SEA

83. Ben Grubbs, OG, BLT

84. Tony Gonzalez, TE, ATL

85. Justin Houston, OLB, KC

86. Alfred Morris, HB, WAS

87. Lavonte David, OLB, TB

88. John Sullivan, C, MIN

89. Jordan Gross, OT, CAR

 

90. Patrick Patterson, CB, PHX

91. Brandon Browner, CB, SEA

92. Eric Decker, WR, DEN

93. Josh Sitton, RG, GB

94. Nick Fairley, DT, DET

95. Derrick Morgan, DE, TEN

96. Ed Reed, S, HST

97. Asante Samuel, CB, ATL

98. Alex Mack, C, CLV

99. Eugene Monroe, LT, JAX

100. Jerod Mayo, ILB, NE

 

 

 

Separated by teams.

 

 

Seattle Seahawks – 7

9. Richard Sherman

48. Marshawn Lynch

63. Kam Chacellor

78. Russell Okung

81. Bobby Wagner

82. Earl Thomas

91. Brandon Browner

 

San Francisco 49ers – 6

10. Patrick Willis

16. Aldon Smith

22. Justin Smith

37. NaVorro Bowman

38. Joe Staley

73. Mike Iupati

 

Tampa Bay Buccaneers – 6

26. Vincent Jackson

49. Gerald McCoy

53. Doug Martin

57. Carl Nicks

68. Dashon Goldson

87. Lavonte David

 

Houston Texans – 6

2. J.J. Watt

13. Andre Johnson

15. Duane Brown

61. Chis Myers

71. Arian Foster

96. Ed Reed

 

Denver Broncos – 6

3. Peyton Manning

8. Von Miller

44. Ryan Clady

58. Demariyus Thomas

69. Champ Bailley

92. Eric Decker

 

Dallas Cowboys – 5

28. Tony Romo

43. Dez Bryant

54. Jason Witten

66. DeMarcus Ware

80. Anthony Spencer

 

New England Patriots – 4

6. Tom Brady

19. Rob Gronkowski

30. Vince Wilfork

100. Jerod Mayo

 

Baltimore Ravens – 4

14. Marshal Yanda

23. Haloti Ngata

75. Ray Rice

83. Ben Grubbs

 

Kansas City Chiefs – 4

20. Jamaal Charles

32. Brandon Flowers

50. Derrick Johnson

85. Justin Houston

 

Chicago Bears – 4

33. Charles Tillman

42. Brandon Marshall

64. Henry Melton

65. Lance Briggs

 

Cincinnati Bengals – 3

7. Geno Atkins

34. A.J. Green

72. Andrew Whitworth

 

Washington Redskins – 3

36. Robert Griffin III

77. Trent Williams

86. Alfred Morris

 

Minnesota Vikings – 3

5. Adrian Peterson

21. Jared Allen

88. John Sullivan, C, MIN

 

Cleveland Browns – 3

35. Joe Thomas

79. Joe Haden

98. Alex Mack

 

Green Bay Packers – 3

1. Aaron Rodgers

18. Clay Matthews

93. Josh Sitton

 

Atlanta Falcons – 3

24. Matt Ryan

84. Tony Gonzalez

97. Asante Samuel

 

Detroit Lions – 3

4. Calvin Johnson

39. Ndmukong Suh

94. Nick Fairley

 

Arizona Cardinals - 3

17. Calais Campbell

70. Daryl Washington

90. Patrick Patterson

 

New York Jets – 3

40. Muhammad Wilkerson

45. Nick Mangold

67. Antonio Cromartie, CB, NYJ

 

Miami Dolphins – 3

12. Cameron Wake

51. Reshad Jones

56. Mike Pouncey, C, MIA

 

Carolina Panthers – 3

31. Charles Johnson

60. Luke Kuechly

89. Jordan Gross

 

New Orleans Saints – 3

11. Drew Brees

27. Jimmy Graham

52. Jahri Evans

 

Tennessee Titans – 2

60. Michael Roos

95. Derrick Morgan

 

Pittsburgh Steelers – 2

29. Ben Roethlisberger

47. Heath Miller

 

New York Giants – 2

62. Eli Manning

55. Jason Pierre-Paul

 

Buffalo Bills – 2

41. C.J. Spiller

59. Jairus Byrd

 

San Diego Chargers – 1

25. Eric Weddle

 

St. Louis Rams – 1

76. Chris Long

 

Philadelphia Eagles – 1

46. Evan Mathis

 

Jacksonville Jaguars – 1

99. Eugene Monroe

 

Indianapolis Colts - 0

 

Oakland Raiders - 0

 

 

 

 

COME GET SOME!!!!!!!

Edited June 8, 2013 by Favre4Ever

[.AirMcNair. 1,232]

You've got Roos and Kuechly at 60 on both the top 100 and the separated list.

 

But I approve of the Titans rankings. Haven't went completely over it yet.

[Favre4Ever+ 4,476]

If it's based off of 2012 only, I would have really liked to see Casey Heyward on the list, considering you could only put a handful of corners ahead of him last year, and none of them matched his cover skills. Also, no Winfield? Having 9 corners but leaving off two of the best from 2012 seems kinda fishy.

 

Don't think I could put Aaron #1... Von Miller needs to be higher, Andre Johnson needs to be higher. Safeties need more love, especially Byrd. Oline is missing a lot too... Evan Mathis, who has been the best OG in the league the last couple years needs to be much higher.

 

Good work Dmac and other random Lions fan.

Edited June 8, 2013 by Favre4Ever

[DonovanMcnabb for H.O.F 2,241]

Neither DB made it for slightly different reasons. We looked past general production into circumstances, which ultimately led to Winfield not making it because neither one of us are high on him. We just couldn't find a spot for Hayward. We had a lot of guys like that.

 

As far as Mathis, neither one of us could put him any higher, he's a top 3-5 guard, but we felt Yanda outperformed him this season in both pass pro, and run blocking.

 

You've got Roos and Kuechly at 60 on both the top 100 and the separated list.

 

But I approve of the Titans rankings. Haven't went completely over it yet.

 

Yea... I'd go back and fix that, but that'd mean a lot of number changing.

[Favre4Ever+ 4,476]

Neither DB made it for slightly different reasons. We looked past general production into circumstances, which ultimately led to Winfield not making it because neither one of us are high on him. We just couldn't find a spot for Hayward. We had a lot of guys like that.

 

As far as Mathis, neither one of us could put him any higher, he's a top 3-5 guard, but we felt Yanda outperformed him this season in both pass pro, and run blocking.

 

 

 

Yea... I'd go back and fix that, but that'd mean a lot of number changing.

 

Winfield and Hayward were better than 7-8 of the corners you listed though, which it what doesn't make sense. I did forget you have a personal vendetta against corners who even think about playing inside, which explains it. 1 snap as a nickel corner and they lose respect from you... lol

 

And I am not really sure any interior olineman outplayed Mathis since he lost all of that weight and ripped his body two or three years ago, forgot the time frame exactly. Unless you are factoring in the Eagles substantial failure against the Ravens Super Bowl title, not really sure you can justify that decision. Not that Yanda is bad or anything like that... It's just that Mathis is that good, or has been anyway.

 

We will have to agree to disagree...

[RazorStar 4,025]

Number 3 should be number 30.

[Bucman 891]

I agree with the Bucs ratings.

No Colts players? I think Luck deserves a spot in the Top 100.

[Favre4Ever+ 4,476]

Number 3 should be number 30.

 

You knew Peyton was going to be vastly overrated on this list... Dmac still think Peyton was robbed of the MVP, even after putting him behind two other players.

[Glanvilles Grits 142]

AJ Green makes your top 100 all the way up in the 30s, but not Julio? LOLwut?

 

No way can this be based on 2012 alone. How can you have a guy who did the same with less opportunities miss, then Green at 34 or whatever. How can you have Andre Johnson inside the top 20?

 

Lynch all the way at 48? He was easily one of the toughest running backs in the league to go up against.

 

Meanwhile Jeckyl and Hyde himself, Brandon Browner, cracks the top 100? As said before, Casey Heyward is an easy candidate there. There are just too many loose ends on this list that make no sense. A lot of the rankings don't make sense in collusion with other great players in the league being completely missing.

 

I don't like the list.

Edited June 8, 2013 by Rain Man

[housemd 338]

28. Tony Romo, QB, DAL

29. Ben Roethlisberger, QB, PIT

 

[DonovanMcnabb for H.O.F 2,241]

Winfield and Hayward were better than 7-8 of the corners you listed though, which it what doesn't make sense. I did forget you have a personal vendetta against corners who even think about playing inside, which explains it. 1 snap as a nickel corner and they lose respect from you... lol

 

And I am not really sure any interior olineman outplayed Mathis since he lost all of that weight and ripped his body two or three years ago, forgot the time frame exactly. Unless you are factoring in the Eagles substantial failure against the Ravens Super Bowl title, not really sure you can justify that decision. Not that Yanda is bad or anything like that... It's just that Mathis is that good, or has been anyway.

 

We will have to agree to disagree...

 

Yanda was in the bottom of the league in just about every pass blocking categories we looked at. He was IMO the best pass blocking guard, the Ravens were among the top 5 in the league running the ball up the middle/guard area, and Yanda was a large part of that. They also had the most success running to the right. Everything just came back to us having Yanda at #1.

 

But we didn't just use stats as our own opinions also played a role, and I just prefer Yanda.

 

I agree with the Bucs ratings.

No Colts players? I think Luck deserves a spot in the Top 100.

 

Who would you put him ahead? Luck rounded out the bottom of our QB top 15-20 rankings. I think we only put like, 10 or 9 QBs on there, I'd have to go back and check.

[DonovanMcnabb for H.O.F 2,241]

AJ Green makes your top 100 all the way up in the 30s, but not Julio? LOLwut?

 

No way can this be based on 2012 alone. How can you have a guy who did the same with less opportunities miss, then Green at 34 or whatever. How can you have Andre Johnson inside the top 20?

 

AJ Green was bracketed, double teamed, and often was the reason why the Bengal's offense was any effective, outside of the work done by their O-Line. He was the #1 option, Julio Jones was barely the second option on his own team.

 

All season long he had a far inferior QB overthrowing and under-throwing him passes.

 

We didn't just use stats, we also used context and our own opinions. And considering the amount of pressure that was put on him to succeed, he stepped up to the plate.

 

Andre Johnson was also easily a top 20 player for me. Outa the top 10 most targeted WR, only two of them managed to have above a 70% catching percentage. Him and Welker. He didn't have very many TDs, but that's because the Texans ran the ball in the red zone.

 

Lynch all the way at 48? He was easily one of the toughest running backs in the league to go up against.

 

Which HBs ranked higher then him would you put him ahead of?

 

Meanwhile Jeckyl and Hyde himself, Brandon Browner, cracks the top 100? As said before, Casey Heyward is an easy candidate there. There are just too many loose ends on this list that make no sense. A lot of the rankings don't make sense in collusion with other great players in the league being completely missing.

 

Browner had some crazy good stats paying a majority of his snaps on the outside, he also was rarely ever targeted because he did a great job of holding his own. He gave up way more catches then Hayward did and ended up giving almost entirely the same amount of yards. I'll take that 10/10 over a guy who put up great stats, but mostly all came within the role of playing on the inside.

 

Position value played a role.

[DonovanMcnabb for H.O.F 2,241]

28. Tony Romo, QB, DAL

29. Ben Roethlisberger, QB, PIT

 

 

Big Ben woulda been higher but he didn't play the whole season. There were guys like Nicks for example who would of been in the top 20, top 30 if it wasn't for the fact that they weren't healthy the entire season.

[Omerta+ 1,206]

Ben Grubs was a New Orleans Saint in 2012 breh, not a Raven.

[Glanvilles Grits 142]

AJ Green was bracketed, double teamed, and often was the reason why the Bengal's offense was any effective, outside of the work done by their O-Line. He was the #1 option, Julio Jones was barely the second option on his own team.

 

All season long he had a far inferior QB overthrowing and under-throwing him passes.

 

We didn't just use stats, we also used context and our own opinions. And considering the amount of pressure that was put on him to succeed, he stepped up to the plate.

 

Andre Johnson was also easily a top 20 player for me. Outa the top 10 most targeted WR, only two of them managed to have above a 70% catching percentage. Him and Welker. He didn't have very many TDs, but that's because the Texans ran the ball in the red zone.

 

 

 

Which HBs ranked higher then him would you put him ahead of?

 

 

 

Browner had some crazy good stats paying a majority of his snaps on the outside, he also was rarely ever targeted because he did a great job of holding his own. He gave up way more catches then Hayward did and ended up giving almost entirely the same amount of yards. I'll take that 10/10 over a guy who put up great stats, but mostly all came within the role of playing on the inside.

 

Position value played a role.

 

CJ Spiller, and possibly even Jamaal Charles in terms of impact they had on their teams this past season. Marshawn Lynch is an absolute freak of nature on the football field.

 

I can hear you on the Julio Jones argument, but I do have a hard time agreeing with it based on the fact you are discounting his talent and explosiveness just because of Roddy White playing opposite. I don't agree with that. You can make that argument for so many receivers in the history of the NFL but no one ever does, only when it comes to current lists do they do that.

 

If you watch Seahawks games, Browner would play great at times, and a lot of times he came off with turnovers. But I do feel like he gave up way more big plays to better receivers in the league than he made good ones. He was 50/50, and he's not really that great of a cover corner. The thing that people rave about with him is his size, not that he's a top cover guy. To put him ahead of so many other corners that can shut down receivers they play against I think is just kind of over rating the guy. Even Seattle fans will tell you Browner isn't as good as people make him to be.

[DonovanMcnabb for H.O.F 2,241]

CJ Spiller, and possibly even Jamaal Charles in terms of impact they had on their teams this past season. Marshawn Lynch is an absolute freak of nature on the football field.

 

Meh. Both guys were two of the most complete backs in the league. Lynch had more caries which resulted in more yards, but they had almost the same amount of yard after contact. Seattle had one of the absolute best run blocking lines in the league, and had like, 3 backs all go over 4 YPC.

 

Charles produced more then Lynch with a worse line and less caries.

 

I can hear you on the Julio Jones argument, but I do have a hard time agreeing with it based on the fact you are discounting his talent and explosiveness just because of Roddy White playing opposite. I don't agree with that. You can make that argument for so many receivers in the history of the NFL but no one ever does, only when it comes to current lists do they do that.

 

Not just Roddy White, Tony Gonzalez had like, 5,6 less targets then Julio. Matt had a lot of targets, and Julio didn't have as much pressure as AJ Green did, and he didn't have to carry as much of the load.

 

But I will also add this, I'm not a AJ Green fan at all (mainly because so many people think he can dethrone CJ )- My partner in crime kinda forced my hand to putting him in the top 40. I had him in the 60s.

 

If you watch Seahawks games, Browner would play great at times, and a lot of times he came off with turnovers. But I do feel like he gave up way more big plays to better receivers in the league than he made good ones. He was 50/50, and he's not really that great of a cover corner. The thing that people rave about with him is his size, not that he's a top cover guy. To put him ahead of so many other corners that can shut down receivers they play against I think is just kind of over rating the guy. Even Seattle fans will tell you Browner isn't as good as people make him to be.

 

He did have a lot of ups and downs, but he was still one of the better cover corners when he was on. The point still stands that playing on the outside, he had minimal help even in Seattle's defense, and he held his own extremely well. Giving up less then 13.0 YPC, and like, 55% completion percentage is pretty great.

Edited June 8, 2013 by DonovanMcnabb for H.O.F

[DonovanMcnabb for H.O.F 2,241]

Ben Grubs was a New Orleans Saint in 2012 breh, not a Raven.

 

My bad. I flopped that one. lol.

[Thanatos 2,847]

Seems like a pretty decent list, but I don't think Kuechly should be on over Steve Smith.

[Packers Dynasty 2010 116]

D-Mac, I really would like to hear your explanation on why you hate corners that play inside. Nowadays in the NFL, I would say nickel corners are asked to do more than outside corners. Teams are constantly motioning receivers and trying to get their best WR or a TE in the slot against the nickel corner. Nickel corners are asked to cover some of the quickest guys in the league. Watching the Packers, I would say opposing nickel corners had the hardest job as they had to cover Cobb. Or previous years when the Packers would shift Jennings into the slot and would have huge success.

[DonovanMcnabb for H.O.F 2,241]

D-Mac, I really would like to hear your explanation on why you hate corners that play inside. Nowadays in the NFL, I would say nickel corners are asked to do more than outside corners. Teams are constantly motioning receivers and trying to get their best WR or a TE in the slot against the nickel corner. Nickel corners are asked to cover some of the quickest guys in the league. Watching the Packers, I would say opposing nickel corners had the hardest job as they had to cover Cobb. Or previous years when the Packers would shift Jennings into the slot and would have huge success.

 

*Warning, long post coming*

 

Nickel corners also get the most help, especially with a safety over the top and LBs underneath. Most of the time nickle corners don't even have to leave a specific zone or area on the field.

 

Rarely ever is a Nickle corner ever asked to do what a outside corner is, which is handle the responsibility of taking on a receiver with help only up top if there isn't a lot of traffic inside. And with more and more teams switching to heavy man on the outside, inside DBs are getting even more help. If any inside corner was going to make it, it was going to be Hall. But most inside corners simply have a lot more help then outside corners.

 

People like to highlight the fact that a lot of these guys are great against the run, and that's all good and stuff but they play so close to the LOS, especially the tackle box that they are always in great position to make plays on the ball, especially when you consider how small and quick they are. Browner is the best CB against the run imo, and you never get to see it because he's so far away from the LOS and on any given play, they have to run with a WR before they try to play up the run. And frankly, a CB being great against the run is a luxury more then a necessity.

 

The slight against Winfield that I have is that simply put, he's a system CB. When he plays the slot he's a heavy zone guy who only passes receivers off to the next zone and rarely have to run with receivers from start to finish, and focus on stopping the simple routes, like slants. Rarely ever is he asked to cover one on one because in the cover 2 they play in there's always a LB underneath on both sides, and 2 safeties up top. Simply put, he's considered a "great corner" because he's great against the run, and while that's all good, it doesn't warrant him as a top 10 CB or a top 100 player imo. Not because of his coverage skills, and it was no different last year.

 

This guy did a great analysis of both of the two guys, Hayward, and Gilmore, where he showed all the ways in which Hayward was great his rookie season. He showed all the things Hayward did well and highlighted how great he believes Hayward can/will be. And I completely agree with him, Hayward's gonna be great. But he said something towards the end of both Hayward, and Gilmore that pretty much sums up why I can't put any slot guys in there.

 

Hayward's analysis:

 

Hayward arrived at the same time as the football, but as he always does, Hayward worked past the player and found the football. He punched the ball into the air and it popped up into Erik Walden’s waiting chest. For all of Hayward’s strengths, he was still a rookie last year and the Packers treated him like one.

 

The majority of his snaps in the slot came with safety help, while he was at times part of double teams against better receivers(those snaps weren’t counted in the above numbers). Often, the Packers would pass receivers off from Hayward and allow him to roam the underneath without an assignment. The above image is an example of one of those plays.

 

Hayward wasn’t an everpresent in the secondary. He played just 769 snaps all season long and would routinely see his involvement on the field spike and fall from week-to-week.

 

http://presnapreads.com/2013/05/27/casey-hayward-the-numbers-the-tape-the-verdict/#more-734

 

And Gilmore:

When I broke down Casey Hayward, it was clear that the Packers were helping the rookie defensive back slowly adjust to the professional level. Hayward played inside primarily and received safety help on the majority of his snaps. Gilmore was thrown into the deep end from day one. He started against the New York Jets in Week 1 and played over 1,000 snaps during the 16 regular season games he started.

 

Instead of playing a role like Hayward’s, Gilmore played a similar role to a 2011 rookie who followed a very different path to the NFL but had a similarly impressive, but unheralded first season in the NFL.

 

Because of their contrasting levels of notoriety on the national stage, it won’t be a popular move to compare Stephon Gilmore to the Seattle Seahawks’ star cornerback Richard Sherman. However, not only do Gilmore and Sherman share very similar styles on the field, the quality of Gilmore’s game from his rookie season is enough to separate him from the cluster of cornerbacks who have so far fallen short of Revis and Sherman’s top cornerback tier.

 

http://presnapreads.com/2013/06/04/stephon-gilmore-an-elite-cornerback-lost-in-the-failings-of-the-buffalo-bills/#more-880

 

You ask most front offices which takes priority between a great slot guy and a great cover outside guy and they'll probably chose the outside guy way more then not. To me, that screams one position value being higher then the other. It doesn't mean that they aren't great players, but simply put, the guys ahead of them do a great job of handling tougher assignments.

Edited June 9, 2013 by DonovanMcnabb for H.O.F

[Favre4Ever+ 4,476]

That is a really awful resource to grade cornerbacks.

 

1) They only count man coverage snaps. Important, sure.. But why do you voluntarily ignore other coverage assignments?

 

2) All of their stats are extremely subjective.

 

2a) Balls don't need to be thrown at a DB to be considered a fail coverage. If somebody misses their assignment, of course you want to count that... But how the heck are they aware of every position every player is supposed to be on and who is responsible for who and when? Unless they have access to team playbooks, it's literally impossible to determine with 100% accuracy.

 

2b) "Shutdown" coverage is determined when NO MATTER WHAT a WR can't make a play on the ball in the corners coverage. Also an IMPOSSIBLE thing to determine. There is no ball that, for example, Calvin Johnson is out of contention on. It doesn't matter if he is triple covered and Stafford throws right at the DB, Calvin can still go make a play and get the ball.

 

3) They claim he got on the field because Woodson was hurt. WRONG. Woodson played safety last year, Casey got into the lineup because of injuries at corner. Woodson's injury opened up playing time for other safeties like McMillian and MD Jennings, not Casey. This ignorance alone should almost make their subjective findings irrelevant. If they don't even know what position guy in Green Bay play, I don't know if I want them analyzing anything.

 

However, him getting on the field because of injury shouldn't hurt him as much as you and this horrible source of yours does. He got an opportunity and crushed it. Gronk only played 750 snaps and he made your Top 20. Yes, he's a great player... And while you obviously don't want guys making the list who played, I dunno half the snaps or less, it should only factor in so much before you just give credit where it is due.

 

Here are the facts. QBs throwing at Heyward consistently failed. No CB with his snap count had a better QB Rating against in the league. As a rookie, he finished 4th in the league in INT total with that lower snap count you hold against him. He never got called for a penalty, fairly subjective as well, but also the only corner in the league, with his snap count, to achieve this. He had more QB disruptions than any CB you listed while rushing the passer. He deflected more passes than anyone on your list not named Richard Sherman (15 VS 12). The catch rate into his coverage was less than any corner in the league who played that many snaps. He didn't give up a single TD, everyone on your list did. And he was a significant factor playing on or near the line, sacrificing his body to play and stuff the run when asked -- something that most guys, including your #1 in Sherman -- can't do even when asked.

 

What will he do next year? Who knows. Will he ever have a season like he did in 2012? Maybe not. But what I do know is that he (and Antoine Winfield) were two of the best corners that took an NFL field last season and their absence shows a serious lack of judgment on your part.

[Lockdnram85 3]

At this point aj green is better then andre johnson and should be higher. Adrian peterson should be higher then peyton and rodgers.

1. JJ Watt

2. Adrian Peterson

3. Calvin Johnson

4. Aaron Rodgers

5. Peyton Manning (to me hes overrated)

[DonovanMcnabb for H.O.F 2,241]

That is a really awful resource to grade cornerbacks.

 

1) They only count man coverage snaps. Important, sure.. But why do you voluntarily ignore other coverage assignments?

 

2) All of their stats are extremely subjective.

 

2a) Balls don't need to be thrown at a DB to be considered a fail coverage. If somebody misses their assignment, of course you want to count that... But how the heck are they aware of every position every player is supposed to be on and who is responsible for who and when? Unless they have access to team playbooks, it's literally impossible to determine with 100% accuracy.

 

2b) "Shutdown" coverage is determined when NO MATTER WHAT a WR can't make a play on the ball in the corners coverage. Also an IMPOSSIBLE thing to determine. There is no ball that, for example, Calvin Johnson is out of contention on. It doesn't matter if he is triple covered and Stafford throws right at the DB, Calvin can still go make a play and get the ball.

 

3) They claim he got on the field because Woodson was hurt. WRONG. Woodson played safety last year, Casey got into the lineup because of injuries at corner. Woodson's injury opened up playing time for other safeties like McMillian and MD Jennings, not Casey. This ignorance alone should almost make their subjective findings irrelevant. If they don't even know what position guy in Green Bay play, I don't know if I want them analyzing anything.

 

You're jumping the gun with the article with what seems like a disregard as to the reason it was posted. I never posted the article because of their analysis on Hayward's cover ability. And while his stuff is always a good read, it was never at any point used in constructing the 100 list. And I really don't care about his stats.

 

However, him getting on the field because of injury shouldn't hurt him as much as you and this horrible source of yours does. He got an opportunity and crushed it. Gronk only played 750 snaps and he made your Top 20. Yes, he's a great player... And while you obviously don't want guys making the list who played, I dunno half the snaps or less, it should only factor in so much before you just give credit where it is due.

 

Give credit where it's due? When Gronk played he was the Pat's #1 option, and Tom Brady's favorite weapon. Teams gameplanned around stopping Gronk and he was still on pace for a record year.

 

The comparison is completely irrelevant.

 

Here are the facts. QBs throwing at Heyward consistently failed. No CB with his snap count had a better QB Rating against in the league. As a rookie, he finished 4th in the league in INT total with that lower snap count you hold against him. He never got called for a penalty, fairly subjective as well, but also the only corner in the league, with his snap count, to achieve this. He had more QB disruptions than any CB you listed while rushing the passer. He deflected more passes than anyone on your list not named Richard Sherman (15 VS 12). The catch rate into his coverage was less than any corner in the league who played that many snaps. He didn't give up a single TD, everyone on your list did. And he was a significant factor playing on or near the line, sacrificing his body to play and stuff the run when asked -- something that most guys, including your #1 in Sherman -- can't do even when asked.

 

What will he do next year? Who knows. Will he ever have a season like he did in 2012? Maybe not. But what I do know is that he (and Antoine Winfield) were two of the best corners that took an NFL field last season and their absence shows a serious lack of judgment on your part.

 

Everyone and their mom have already seen the stats on Hayward, and the minute they forget it for even a second are reminded with every opportunity by you guys. And while all those are facts, here's the other side of the fact that you decide to discard and was the exact reason I actually posted the snippet I posted from the article- not the analysis on his coverage:

 

The guy had more help then just about every single corner on the list when he was in coverage. Outside of maybe Browner. Way more times then not, when Hayward was in coverage there was some kinda combination of a high safety or a low LB, or sometimes both, which allowed him to take risks that outside corners who don't have that luxury.

 

Within your barrage of criticism of the article you probably decided to also not pay attention to the breakdown of the percentage of the routes Hayward faced. A vast majority of them were either crossing, flats, or curls- primarily, the routes QBs don't throw to unless they need like, 2 or 3 yards, or emergency backup routes if the stuff over the top and outside are covered, or the QB is running outa time. They are also all underneath routes that rely heavily on timing and force the QB to very much alter his throw to fit it over LBs underneath or safeties up high. And then you have instances where unless if the Packers are playing man to man across the board, Hayward is allowed to sit back in a zone and just wait for whatever receiver might be coming in to breakup the pass on the last second. He, like most nickle corners while they may face big tight ends or fast wideouts get the most help.

 

With most outside corners, they are in a completely different position asked to do more with less help. Give me a guy like Patrick Peterson or Joe Haden who have worse metrics but harder jobs over a guy like Hayward who's only in on primarily nickle packages and are put into ideal situations to succeed.

 

And I like it how you still keep posting the amount of TDs as if it's all that relevant. It isn't. It's like TDs for HBs, it is vastly dependent from situation to situation. In the redzone a LB or Safety is more likely to be beaten for a TD then a slot corner. Go look at the vast majority of corners that have given up 3 or less TDs and you'll see that they are for the most part, slot corners.

 

And I'm not sure why he's willing to give up his botdy against the run is really all that relevant either. You think if a guy like Sherman had a chance to play close to the LOS and make plays on the run he wouldn't? Antoine Cason? Sean Smith? Champ Bailley?

Edited June 10, 2013 by DonovanMcnabb for H.O.F

[DonovanMcnabb for H.O.F 2,241]

At this point aj green is better then andre johnson and should be higher. Adrian peterson should be higher then peyton and rodgers.

1. JJ Watt

2. Adrian Peterson

3. Calvin Johnson

4. Aaron Rodgers

5. Peyton Manning (to me hes overrated)

 

This list was done on how they performed last season. Andre Johnson imo outperformed AJ Green by a fair amount IMO.