Economist Claims US Debt Actually Tops $70 Trillion

[Jules 98]

Was sick of going off topic in the other thread.

 

Personally I have felt for some time and still do that it's only a matter of time before we have a collapse. Whether it happens or not remains to be seen as well as when it happens if it does.

 

You are more then welcome to disagree though if you think we are headed on the right track but we were getting too off topic in another thread too.

 

I found another article, yes it is FOX news and many might think it is BS. But, here is some more info.

 

Read it all here:

 

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/08/14/california-economist-says-real-us-debt-70-trillion-not-16-trillion-government/

 

And here is another article I found interesting:

 

http://cnsnews.com/news/article/treasury-ran-98-billion-deficit-july-debt-stayed-exactly-16699396000000

Edited August 15, 2013 by Favre4Ever

[Guest Phailadelphia]

Debt and liabilities are two different things.

 

Edit: The study's authors also use a very dubious definition of the term "debt."

Edited August 15, 2013 by Phailadelphia

[RANGA+ 1,210]

Never listen to an economist about economics

[Favre4Ever+ 4,476]

Debt and liabilities are two different things.

 

Edit: The study's authors also use a very dubious definition of the term "debt."

 

That's the whole point. Liabilities ARE debts, it just so happens that our government uses a very "dubious" and narrow definition of the term "debt". We don't need an economist to tell us there is money being spent / loaned / or otherwise used by the federal government that is not officially counted towards the debt.

 

If it truly was all encompassing, naturally it is going to be much much larger. The trick is just to make sure not everybody wants their money at once.

 

This story would be like John Madden telling us the NFL uses a football in it's games.

[Guest Phailadelphia]

That's the whole point. Liabilities ARE debts, it just so happens that our government uses a very "dubious" and narrow definition of the term "debt". We don't need an economist to tell us there is money being spent / loaned / or otherwise used by the federal government that is not officially counted towards the debt.

 

If it truly was all encompassing, naturally it is going to be much much larger. The trick is just to make sure not everybody wants their money at once.

 

This story would be like John Madden telling us the NFL uses a football in it's games.

 

No, not really. The economists who performed the study included in this study all the debt the US will incur like 75 years into the future via Social Security, Medicaid, Medicare, etc. Those are not liabilities. The government can cancel those programs or refuse to fund them and it won't affect it's credit rating, aka they're not liabilities.

 

And the $70 trillion discrepancy over such a long time period equates to what, like a 5% deficit increase? So raise taxes by 5% over that period (or cut spending 5%). Or reform the programs. Or cancel/defund them. This is not nearly as drastic or "holy shit they're secretly fucking us" as the article makes it seem.

Edited August 15, 2013 by Phailadelphia

[seanbrock 1,684]

Our country is up for sale to the highest bidder. Our country is run by billionaires and the crooked politicians on their pay role. It's only going to get worse.

[Favre4Ever+ 4,476]

No, not really. The economists who performed the study included in this study all the debt the US will incur like 75 years into the future via Social Security, Medicaid, Medicare, etc. Those are not liabilities. The government can cancel those programs or refuse to fund them and it won't affect it's credit rating, aka they're not liabilities.

 

And the $70 trillion discrepancy over such a long time period equates to what, like a 5% deficit increase? So raise taxes by 5% over that period (or cut spending 5%). Or reform the programs. Or cancel/defund them. This is not nearly as drastic or "holy shit they're secretly fucking us" as the article makes it seem.

 

You seem to just not get it. I am not lending credence to the article or it's author. Other than the general idea that the government doesn't include all of it's liabilities into the debt total (again, not talking about, necessarily, the programs listed in that article or by that author).

 

And I laughed and stopped reading when you suggested raising taxes by 5% over the length of the debts.

[Vin+ 3,121]

I'd like to see the debt #s of other countries.

[seanbrock 1,684]

I'd like to see the debt #s of other countries.

I heard about this website called google. Apparently you just type shit into this thing called a search bar and click search and it comes up with links where you can find information about shit.

[BucD+ 648]

Here ya go Vinneh...

 

[GA_Eagle 595]

in 2012 the EU owed €10,320,106,100,000 (27 countries combined)

[Jules 98]

I just saw this somewhere. Kinda hypnotizing.

 

http://www.usdebtclock.org/

[Jules 98]

http://finance.yahoo.com/blogs/breakout/walmart-earnings-miss-exposes-collapsing-economy-davidowitz-142435260.html

 

Walmart (WMT) reported earnings of $1.24 a share this morning on revenues of $116.2 billion. Analysts had been expecting $1.25 on $118.5 billion. Sales in stores open more than a year declined 0.3%. Walmart also guided lower for the full year citing a "challenging sales and operating environment." The stock is off sharply and at risk of going negative for the last 52 weeks.

 

Those are the numbers, but not the whole story. Walmart is the thermometer of the American economy. Disregard the government data. Jobs and GDP and all the rest are at best inaccurate measures of the economy and at worst flat out corrupt. Walmart is capitalism writ large. The entire organization is focused on nothing but selling goods and services to Americans. It may be an empire in decline, but Walmart sells more than $1 billion worth of merchandise per day in a bad quarter. When Walmart misses estimates, it can only mean one of two things: either Walmart or the American economy is weaker than anyone thought.

 

"Walmart is a terrific operator... They didn't suddenly become stupid," says says Howard Davidowitz, one of the top retail minds in the country. "The economy is in collapse. That's what's going on."

 

Davidowitz points out that Walmart isn't just a store for the downtrodden. They have 150 million customers which collectively spent less in Walmart stores than in the same period last year. Davidowitz says another 50 million customers shop at Target (TGT), which he also expects to have negative comp stores sales when it reports next week.

 

Don't forget that Macy's (M) also missed expectations yesterday. Three makes a trend. The GDP data is positive and the employment data says things are improving gradually. Either the best merchants in America forgot how to sell, Americans stopped consuming beyond their means, or the economy is turning south, not getting better.

[Guest Phailadelphia]

Those are the numbers, but not the whole story. Walmart is the thermometer of the American economy. Disregard the government data. Jobs and GDP and all the rest are at best inaccurate measures of the economy and at worst flat out corrupt. Walmart is capitalism writ large.

 

Stopped reading right there.

[Jules 98]

Stopped reading right there.

 

 

Prove to us all your knowledge then since every link and every other opinion around is bullshit according to your great depth of wisdom.

 

 

Often, I just share news too because I read everything and sometimes I like to try and spark discussions.

 

I have yet to see your provide one ounce of evidence things are going well and will be on the upswing.

 

I am waiting. Share with me the optimism and truth. I want to read it all. I want to also be aware and smart like you. I want optimism.

Edited August 15, 2013 by Jules

[Jules 98]

You seem to just not get it. I am not lending credence to the article or it's author. Other than the general idea that the government doesn't include all of it's liabilities into the debt total (again, not talking about, necessarily, the programs listed in that article or by that author).

 

Since I joined this site I have always remarked to myself that you know your shit.

[Guest Phailadelphia]

You seem to just not get it. I am not lending credence to the article or it's author. Other than the general idea that the government doesn't include all of it's liabilities into the debt total (again, not talking about, necessarily, the programs listed in that article or by that author).

 

And I laughed and stopped reading when you suggested raising taxes by 5% over the length of the debts.

 

You seem to be missing both my point and the point of the study altogether.

 

Prove to us all your knowledge then since every link and every other opinion around is bullshit according to your great depth of wisdom.

 

 

Often, I just share news too because I read everything and sometimes I like to try and spark discussions.

 

I have yet to see your provide one ounce of evidence things are going well and will be on the upswing.

 

I am waiting. Share with me the optimism and truth. I want to read it all. I want to also be aware and smart like you. I want optimism.

 

I'm not going to do your research for you. If you're seriously interested in getting a snapshot of the economy, you can start by not reading websites like the ones you've been linking in here. Familiarizing yourself with FRED is a good place to start, as well as reading blogs written by PhD economists (there are LOTS out there).

[Jules 98]

You seem to be missing both my point and the point of the study altogether.

 

 

 

I'm not going to do your research for you. If you're seriously interested in getting a snapshot of the economy, you can start by not reading websites like the ones you've been linking in here. Familiarizing yourself with FRED is a good place to start, as well as reading blogs written by PhD economists (there are LOTS out there).

 

My father has a degree in economics from one of the best colleges in the country he received back in the 60's.

 

He still runs a business he inherited from his father/grandfather.

 

He has followed the stock market since God knows when.

 

He thinks eventually yes we will hit rock bottom. He does not seem to think it is going to be as soon as many out there claim but he thinks the country is sinking.

 

They put band aids on it to stop the bleeding but it's not fixed. They manipulate numbers quite often to keep us afloat too IMO. They lie lie lie.

 

They tax people like my dad up the ass at times and it still isn't going to be enough.

 

Honestly, it is getting to the point I think it's almost better off to sell the business even if it means costing many people in my town and the areas around it jobs. This is the shit we have to deal with these days. Small businesses around the country closing or selling because it's just not worth it anymore. Jobs going out the window.

 

Right now the company is going to continue though I believe for some time. But, the topic of letting it go has been brought up in recent years and still is.

 

It's just becoming not worth it in this economy and country anymore at times.

 

I do hope things improve like some suggest. Logic says to me though that the hole is too deep and it has been building for a while.

 

We don't have enough money IN THE WORLD to fix what is broken.

 

We can only delay the inevitable so long IMO.

 

I know you disagree but that's just how I see it.

Edited August 15, 2013 by Jules

[Jules 98]

IMO the fucking liberals are ruining the heart and soul of this country. If Hillary "What difference does it make" Clinton is the next President you might as well start our funeral.

 

I love how they act like they are fixing shit too. Yeah giving out government handouts is really fixing shit. Yeah taking money from small businesses is really fixing shit.

 

Get everyone a fucking job and make them work. Keep the jobs in this country. And stop letting immigrants come over and just giving them government assistance. But the jobs are not there anymore and they will only decrease.

 

I am sure the average person didn't go to college just to be a waiter or waitress too. Those are often the kinds of jobs out there that they brag are available.

 

 

I know my opinions may not be popular though and not agree with but that's how I feel.

Edited August 16, 2013 by Jules

[blotsfan 2,112]

Get everyone a fucking job and make them work. Keep the jobs in this country.

how would we go about this?

[Jules 98]

how would we go about this?

 

Not sure blots. Then again I am no person in high power. We are a lazy entitled country as a whole too IMO. Look at our children too these days, I see kids who would rather play video games then play outside. I see overweight kids too at alarming rates. How healthy will they be in the future?

 

 

It used to be "ask not what your country can do for you — ask what you can do for your country."

 

What has happened to us? And do enough people still care about their rights, their freedoms and the overall well being and values of humanity? Are people that numbed down?

 

 

Sorry to rant so much. I just feel as if I see so many traits of this once great country decline since I was a kid in the 80's. I am not even old enough yet to be this disillusioned!!! lol.

 

I personally should not complain. I have enough money and a good job. But, I don't want to see the country around me sink either.

 

I give things to charity and do all the good things where I live but it's still not enough!!!

 

People also just don't seem as happy around me like years gone by.

 

I don't know what can be done at this point. I sure the hell know this, Obama is not making things better. His entire hope and change campaign was pure bullshit. I said as much in 2008. He is almost a false prophet.

[Guest Phailadelphia]

how would we go about this?

 

I see what you did there.

[OSUViking 505]

I don't think there is a single perfect way to look at how an economic progresses or regresses, but to simply ignore GDP is ridiculous. I don't know about this situation, but to me that's shouting: "The facts aren't in my favor, so I'm going to say that the facts are skewed and shouldn't be considered." Again; I am in no way saying GDP is a perfect way to measure the economy, but it's completely ridiculous to write it off.

[OSUViking 505]

IMO the fucking liberals are ruining the heart and soul of this country. If Hillary "What difference does it make" Clinton is the next President you might as well start our funeral.

 

 

IMO, and no disrespect to you, the fucking "the fucking liberals are ruining the heart and soul of this country" is ruining the heart and soul of this country. It's the same, likewise, for people saying "libertarians are ruining the heart and soul of this country" or "conservatives are ruining the heart and soul of this country". It's the partisan bullshit and refusal to actually work towards a better tomorrow that's ruining the fabric of this nation.

[Jules 98]

Looking back. I actually miss Reagan when I was a kid. He at least had balls. A real man is what this country needs running it. And there are none left in politics sadly on either side.

 

And who might be the next President? Hillary "What difference does it make" Clinton.