Top 10 QBs

[Favre4Ever+ 4,476]

Overreacting the opposite direction makes you equally wrong, not some arbiter of football forum justice. And for the record I've already said Luck doesn't deserve a top 10 ranking. But I do know he's a lot better than Smith. Because I have eyes.

Except it's not overreacting in the opposite direction. It's giving Alex Smith the credit he deserves (as little as it may be) that people here refuse to give him. Because ya know... I have eyes too. Again.. I am not saying Alex Smith is amazing... That would be an overreaction in the opposite direction.

Edited July 11, 2014 by Favre4Ever

[KempBolt 498]

Except it's not overreacting in the opposite direction. It's giving Alex Smith the credit he deserves (as little as it may be) that people here refuse to give him. Because ya know... I have eyes too. Again.. I am not saying Alex Smith is amazing... That would be an overreaction in the opposite direction.

Well, I would say that comparing him to Luck is an overreaction, but apparently you wouldn't. Anyways, I'm good on this one. You good?

[Favre4Ever+ 4,476]

Dmac and I are fornicating tonight. His post was a form of foreplay.

Well, I would say that comparing him to Luck is an overreaction, but apparently you wouldn't. Anyways, I'm good on this one. You good?

Look at the numbers... They are two of the most similar QBs in the entire league. Granted, they may get there in different ways, but the end results are shockingly similar.

[KempBolt 498]

Dmac and I are fornicating tonight. His post was a form of foreplay.

 

 

 

Look at the numbers... They are two of the most similar QBs in the entire league. Granted, they may get there in different ways, but the end results are shockingly similar.

Look at what they're asked to do and how they do it. I know you're smart enough to see the difference.

[Favre4Ever+ 4,476]

Look at what they're asked to do and how they do it. I know you're smart enough to see the difference.

Absolutely. As I mentioned, they play different games. But if they end up in the same spot, why exactly does it matter so drastically that one is clearly above the other? Peyton Manning is the king of dink and dunk... He's still Top 3, Top 5 on everybody's list (and I am not arguing that placement, ftr)...

 

Alex Smith is asked to manage his offense and perform shorter throws to move his team methodically down the field and the results are X. Andrew Luck is asked to do more, he throws down field more than Alex Smith does... But his results are also X. You want to move Luck up above Smith for that reason?

 

Sure... That's cool. But if you have him significantly above Smith, I will argue the fact you stated earlier about having eyes.

[KempBolt 498]

Absolutely. As I mentioned, they play different games. But if they end up in the same spot, why exactly does it matter so drastically that one is clearly above the other? Peyton Manning is the king of dink and dunk... He's still Top 3, Top 5 on everybody's list (and I am not arguing that placement, ftr)...

 

Alex Smith is asked to manage his offense and perform shorter throws to move his team methodically down the field and the results are X. Andrew Luck is asked to do more, he throws down field more than Alex Smith does... But his results are also X. You want to move Luck up above Smith for that reason?

 

Sure... That's cool. But if you have him significantly above Smith, I will argue the fact you stated earlier about having eyes.

 

I think that if the Colts allowed Luck to play conservative and manage games like Smith does, his numbers would look healthier and they'd win fewer football games. Conversely, I know from past seasons that if you asked Smith to play more like Luck, he'd turn the ball over at an alarming rate.

 

I don't think it's two different styles because of preference. I think Luck plays the way he does out of necessity, and Smith plays the way he does out of limitation.

[Favre4Ever+ 4,476]

I understand your point, For that I will give you +1, but we could argue about this all night because it's all theoretical and hasn't and probably won't actually happen.

Luck's short game doesn't overly impress me either, unfortunately. I would definitely say he would improve... Because with the short game, you are going to run more, and obviously that alone will help the QB out a lot. So, in a way.. yes, I would say you are correct.. Just because that's how football works. But I don't think it would really be a significant jump or be because of his particular skill set.

Right now... Andrew Luck is who he is. And whether he is throwing more down field or being more of a game manager, I don't think that drastically changes anything.


As far as Alex Smith not being able to play that type of game, maybe Luck can't either... We might have to disagree. Here are both QBs throwing beyond 10 yards last year...


70/144 | 48% | 1448 yards | 10.05 YPA | 11 TD | 4 INT | 98.3 Rating

103/227 | 45% | 2232 yards | 9.8 YPA | 16 TD | 9 INT | 87.8 Rating

I would ask you who is who, but the volume gives it away. Smith with the better completion %, better YPA, higher TD %, lower INT%, better TD:INT ratio, better rating. It's literally a clean sweep for Alex.

Let's not forget Alex Smith was one of the most deadly accurate and efficient QBs in the league his last year in SF... And I mean that honestly, one of the best. Granted... He had better weapons, better coaches, better team management... Etc.. But he has given us more than Andrew Luck ever has.. And yes I understand that isn't completely fair as Luck has only been in the league two years now...

I am simply pointing that out because Smith's recent history paints us a much different picture than the bust he was to start his career.

Edited July 11, 2014 by Favre4Ever

[SteVo+ 3,702]

"Clutch" is not a skill. It's a combination of factors (and outcomes) that happen to play out in a favorable manner.

 

"Clutch" = CLUster luck is a biTCH (or CLUster luck, biTCH!)

 

I disagree with that notion emphatically. "Clutch" may not be a skill, so to speak, but it is not a product of luck. It may come and go, as you alluded to with Brady, but when high amounts of pressure are applied, some athletes rise to the challenge, some crumble.

 

It's the reason some athletes do this:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KpJoCsnR_GU

 

And others do this:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JM6I7AjCFAY

[KempBolt 498]

Yes, it's true that if you look at both Luck and Smith over the last two years, Smith's numbers are better across the board when attempting passes beyond 10 yds. But he also only has 177 of those attempts to his name from 2012-13, or 7 per game. Luck has 442 total over the same span, or 14 per game.

 

This gets back to my argument over what they're asked to do. Smith's numbers make sense, because over the past two seasons he's been in two of the more effective rushing offenses in football (2012, SF 3rd with 5.1 YPC; 2013, KC 4th with 4.7 YPC; Colts were 23rd and 12th respectively). He's been asked to play it safe the majority of the time with short passes and check downs. So the defenses he's facing are geared up to stop the run and short passing game, making deep shots easier to take and complete simply because of how infrequent they are.

 

Teams playing Luck and the Colts, with a less dangerous running game and offense that asks Luck to go downfield twice as often, don't have to play as honest and can make it more difficult on Luck. This is why I threw out the theory that Luck's numbers would look a whole lot better if he were allowed to play it as safe as Smith does, and why Smith's success is largely predicated on not having to attempt many of the more difficult passes in the game.

[Zack_of_Steel+ 3,014]

Revised list, prior to the season.

 

Elite

Aaron Rodgers

Drew Brees

Ben Roethlisberger

Tom Brady (Trending down.)

 

Tier 2

Phillip Rivers (Returned to form last year. Expecting another big year.)

Russell Wilson (Could push elite status if he continues being so efficient.)

Eli Manning (Just get him to the playoffs... He's been in such a shit situation the past two seasons. He has proven to be a winner when it matters. His team is failing him, currently, imo.)

 

Could be higher if they weren't busy choking on their own failure

Peyton Manning (Ultimate choke artist. Will not win you a championship on his own.)

Matt Ryan (Peyton knockoff)

Tony Romo (Statistically, very efficient. Shit when it matters.)

 

Non-shit starters overrated by the mainstream, but with potential

Andrew Luck (Wildcard.)

Cam Newton (I hate the guy, but he's actually been decent. Needs some receivers, lol.)

Nick Foles (I don't think he's the QB he looked like last season, but we'll see.)

RGIII (Never was impressed by him.)

Colin Kaepernick (Has Slash written all over him. lol)

Edited September 3, 2014 by Zack_of_Steel

[BJORN 679]

Besides the obvious disagreement over he who shall not be named. It kind of bugs me that you say Rivers "reverted to form" and then dismiss Eli's play because of his situation. It should go both ways. The previous two years Rivers was playing behind the worse o-line in the league in a scheme completely geared towards long developing passing plays. Sounds similar to Eli's situation last year. Lastly, I think Ben and Rivers are on the same level tier wise. They are actually tied in my book.

 

Anyways, I'd rank it in order and tiered:

 

Rodgers

P. Manning

Brees

 

Brady

5a. Rivers

5b. Big Ben

 

Romo

Wilson

Ryan

Luck

[Zack_of_Steel+ 3,014]

None of what you said makes any sense. I never ranked Rivers lower due to his his previous woes.

 

Also, I've never ranked Eli lower due to his recent woes.

 

Consistency.

Edited September 4, 2014 by Zack_of_Steel

[BJORN 679]

None of what you said makes any sense. I never ranked Rivers lower due to his his previous woes.

 

Also, I've never ranked Eli lower due to his recent woes.

 

Consistency.

Yeah, I was just nitpicking as I don't think Rivers reverted back to his old form, it was more due to his situation not being completely retarded like it was under Norv.

[Thanatos 2,847]

I dont think Eli deserves to be in the same conversation as any of the other guys you listed, Zack, lol.

[Zack_of_Steel+ 3,014]

Put any of the other guys on the Giants of the past couple years and you'd see a similar result.

 

Kurt Warner is one of the best QBs of all time and he had a string of SHIT years in between his great ones. Eli hasn't suddenly become a bad QB.

 

If I'm trying to win a championship, I take them in that order. Eli's poise and performance in clutch situations are well documented.

 

 

 

I think what you're really fishing for is an apology for not ranking Cam in the top 5.

Edited September 4, 2014 by Zack_of_Steel

[Thanatos 2,847]

Nope. Just don't think Eli is anywhere near a top-10 QB. Eli was never a really good QB, so yeah he hasn't suddenly hasn't become shit.

 

Nor do I think Cam is in the top-5 myself.

Edited September 4, 2014 by Thanatos19

[Thanatos 2,847]

Can we talk about Josh McCown being better than Wilson and Newton now?

Edited September 24, 2014 by Thanatos19

[Dutch 874]

Currently who I like:

 

1. Aaron Rodgers

 

2. Phillip Rivers

 

3. Andrew Luck

 

4. Peyton Manning

 

5. Matt Ryan

 

6. Drew Brees

 

7. Ben Roethlisberger

 

 

8. Russell Wilson

 

 

9. Cam Newton

 

10. Tony Romo

Edited October 3, 2014 by Dutch

[RazorStar 4,025]

This is how I think it's going to be at the end of the year. The QB that I would take. Not holding on to achievements from years ago.

 

 

5. Tom Brady :Patriots:

 

 

[Dutch 874]

 

 

Brady is trending down and Rivers is trending up. I've been much more impressed with Rivers performances over Brady's dating all the way back to last year. Brady is still doing great especially when you consider what he's working with but Rivers has simply been on fire. He's been exceptionally accurate and decisive where he wants to go with the ball and has been playing at an elite level. So yes, if I'm lining these guys up, I'm taking them over Brady at this point in time. It's no denying Brady isn't playing at a level we are accustomed to but that's not to say he isn't playing great. But just because he's Brady, the thought of him being put lower is just blasphemous to some but I'm going off of what I see. I'm putting trust and stock into what I see and not a name and legacy. The other guys are just playing at a higher level.

[seanbrock 1,684]

Eagles are undefeated and Nick Foles is a top 5 QB maybe top 3. He's gonna lead the Eagles to at least 16 or 17 wins this year including playoffs obviously. Super Bowl trophy win incoming.

[RazorStar 4,025]

I'm saying Brady should be way lower Dutch.

[Dutch 874]

I'm saying Brady should be way lower Dutch.

 

Ah okay. Very true. Even where I had him I think I was still holding onto some of the past as well but I updated my list on how I think it's going to turn out. And oh yes, I think Luck is trending up. Him playing against some tougher teams should solidify my vibe.

 

Currently who I like:

 

1. Aaron Rodgers

 

2. Phillip Rivers

 

3. Andrew Luck

 

4. Peyton Manning

 

5. Matt Ryan

 

6. Drew Brees

 

7. Ben Roethlisberger

 

 

8. Russell Wilson

 

 

9. Cam Newton

 

10. Tony Romo

Edited October 3, 2014 by Dutch

[KempBolt 498]

At the moment...

 

1. Rivers

 

2. Rodgers

 

3. Manning

 

4. Luck

 

5. Ryan

 

6. Brees

 

7. Wilson

 

8. Newton

 

9. Roethlisberger

 

10. Romo

[BJORN 679]

At the moment, I'd argue Luck has been better than both Peyton and Rodgers.