Texans Restructure JJ Watts' Contract

[BLUE 1,026]

Per Rotoworld.com:

J.J. Watt believes he's "outplayed" his rookie contract, and wants an extension.

Signed through 2015, Watt said he hasn't been involved in long-term talks, but would "get involved if I have to." NFL.com's Ian Rapoport reports the Texans have been "very engaged" in talks, and that the sides have been "making progress." Watt has made a strong case to be the league's highest-paid defender, but the fact that he has two years left on his deal has to lessen the urgency for the Texans, even if they want to keep their superstar happy. Aug 19 - 5:28 PM

Source: John McClain on Twitter

 

Edited March 25, 2015 by Favre4Ever

[CampinWithaMissingPerson 2,025]

I disagree. I would just trade or cut him if I were Rick Smith.

 

[seanbrock 1,684]

I disagree. I would just trade or cut him if I were Rick Smith.

 

To Philly

[FartWaffles 1,857]

For whatever reason, Rick Smith is known to only give extensions when the player has one year left on their contract. If there was ever a player to make an exception to that rule, it's J.J. Watt.

[.AirMcNair. 1,232]

You have to be careful about how much you give him. He's the best defensive player in the league, but he's not a QB, he's not gonna single handedly win your team enough games to get to the playoffs...last year proved that better than anything. Giving him a 100m deal like I've seen suspected by some would be extremely foolish, IMO. I'd offer him 66 over 6, 10 more mil than Atkins got/11 per.

[KempBolt 498]

You have to be careful about how much you give him. He's the best defensive player in the league, but he's not a QB, he's not gonna single handedly win your team enough games to get to the playoffs...last year proved that better than anything. Giving him a 100m deal like I've seen suspected by some would be extremely foolish, IMO. I'd offer him 66 over 6, 10 more mil than Atkins got/11 per.

 

I don't think he'd ever sign that. Might make sense in terms of dollars for top interior defensive linemen, but Watt clearly transcends positional limitations. He's going to get paid like an elite pass rushing DE, because that's what he is in addition to being a dominant interior DL. Mario Williams got 6/96 and Watt will get more. Rightfully so.

[Attyla the Hawk 197]

That's a fair deal.

 

It's not like the Texans will be having to pay a QB in the next 4 years.

[SteVo+ 3,702]

You have to be careful about how much you give him. He's the best defensive player in the league, but he's not a QB, he's not gonna single handedly win your team enough games to get to the playoffs...last year proved that better than anything. Giving him a 100m deal like I've seen suspected by some would be extremely foolish, IMO. I'd offer him 66 over 6, 10 more mil than Atkins got/11 per.

 

For what it's worth, I agree with you regarding value and Watt's impact on the team. But at the same time, he's a once-in-a-generation talent, and a defensive force you simply do not see in professional football very often. In the end, I think the Texans have to get a deal done.

 

As Kemp said, Mario Williams got 6/96, so it's a good bet Watt's negotiations go over 6/100 ($16.7M per year). Maybe the Texans add a 7th year and in exchange, the average salary goes down a little. I could see something like 7/113.

Edited August 20, 2014 by SteVo

[Glanvilles Grits 142]

I wonder what the chances are that when all is said and done, Watt ends up walking. Further, what happens if that situation does happen and the Texans decide not to sign Watt? When I sit back and think about it, I believe its a more realistic possibility than others do. The Texans could very well be lining up to try and avoid paying big dollars to Watt, they did after all just draft Clowney. If Clowney proves to be the dominant force that everyone believes he can be, wouldn't that put the Texans in the position where they don't need to give Watt the keys to the city?

 

I will say this, it's different from the Mario Williams situation in that this time they DO indeed have the cap space to make good with Watt and pay the man, but it's the same in the way that they have a guy who can potentially pick up the slack when Watt is gone.

 

I guess that's just one what-if possibility in the deal.

 

The interesting thing about this all is the fact that Watt doesn't want to be involved in the negotiations. He's letting his people handle it. I read somewhere saying that Watt relayed to the media "if I need to get involved then I will" or something along those lines. So basically, if they match or exceed (by a bit) the market value for a top defensive lineman there should be no issues. I think this is going to be an interesting set of negotiations to keep an eye on.

 

At the end of the day, Watt will probably spend the prime of his career (at the very least) in Houston. He's the cornerstone of that defense, a guy that offenses have to gameplan for. You don't get that often, and I don't believe that they had it quite to the same extent with Mario Williams. You've almost got to pay him 6 years, $100M right now.

Edited August 20, 2014 by Rain Man

[.AirMcNair. 1,232]

As good as Watt is, if he tells me he's taking no less than 16-17 million dollars a year, he can walk out the door. I'm awfully stingy though and I would struggle to pay any player that.

[Glanvilles Grits 142]

As good as Watt is, if he tells me he's taking no less than 16-17 million dollars a year, he can walk out the door. I'm awfully stingy though and I would struggle to pay any player that.

 

And that's the exact reason why my mind just has to wonder if the Texans are setting up for that scenario by the selection of Clowney, instead of a franchise quarterback or all the other options they could have made.

[SteVo+ 3,702]

I don't want to quote the whole thing, Rain Man, but that's a great post, to which I have one thing to add.

 

If Clowney pans out and reaches his potential, there's zero chance the Texans can pay both he and Watt elite money and still put a competent offense on the field, never mind defensive depth around the two studs. (Potential stud in Clowney's case.)

Edited August 20, 2014 by SteVo

[FartWaffles 1,857]

I wonder what the chances are that when all is said and done, Watt ends up walking.

 

0%

 

 

 

Further, what happens if that situation does happen and the Texans decide not to sign Watt? When I sit back and think about it, I believe its a more realistic possibility than others do. The Texans could very well be lining up to try and avoid paying big dollars to Watt, they did after all just draft Clowney. If Clowney proves to be the dominant force that everyone believes he can be, wouldn't that put the Texans in the position where they don't need to give Watt the keys to the city?

 

Clowney was drafted not to replace Watt, but to help Watt and form a dominant defensive front.

 

Bob McNair has tabbed two players as what he calls "legacy" players. These are the guys he wants to play their entire career in Houston. Those two players were Andre Johnson and J.J. Watt. He's not going anywhere.

[KempBolt 498]

I don't think it's impossible to pay Watt and a good Clowney and still field an ok roster everywhere else.

[oochymp 2,393]

just for perspective (all numbers from Spotrac.com) the highest paid DT right now based on average salary is Ndamakung Suh, nearing the end of a 5 year $64.5M contract, an average of $12.9M/year and the first big dropoff in DT pay comes after the fourth player where the average salary drops from $10.67M/year to $7.67M/year, the top four are Suh, Haloti Ngata, Gerald McCoy, and Geno Atkins in that order

 

at DE the highest paid player, again based on average salary, is Mario Williams with $96M over 6 years for an average of $16M/year and the first dropoff is after him, where the second highest paid player is Greg Hardy who's on a franchise tag at $13.1M, the fact that the franchise tag, the average of the top five players, is the second highest should be enough to tell you how much of an outlier Williams' contract is, the next four DEs range from $12.67M/year and $10M/year

 

so the going rate for top end dline talent, Mario Williams aside, seems to be around $11-12 million per year

[KempBolt 498]

Unlike Williams, Watt has the crazy high outlier skillset to match an outlier salary.

[.AirMcNair. 1,232]

I don't think it's impossible to pay Watt and a good Clowney and still field an ok roster everywhere else.

 

They would never be able to keep an above average QB, those two and an ok roster. Assuming Watt wants 16-17 mil a year(and I mean, if Mario Williams is making that, why should Watt make less, right?), Clowney wants top tier DE money after proving himself, gets..uh..13? we'll go with 13 a year, and we'll base the above average QB salary off of Kaep's 18 a year, that's 47 million of your cap space in 3 players. Now obviously contracts are wrote to where you don't(well, not always) make 18 a year, sometimes it's front loaded, back loaded, etc, etc, but the point is either way their putting a good amount of cap in just 3 players in that case. 34%-ish of it. Cap is going to raise as the years go on, no doubt, but so will the contracts at that point, so it keeps up.

 

And Watt proved last year he can't win games for this team. I doubt Clowney, even if he lives up to the hype, makes up the 7-8 game difference they need to reach the playoffs.

 

Building a great defense isn't even done by just signing two incredible players. Look at the Seahawks. 49ers. The great defenses of the past. They've got their great players(Sherman, Thomas, Willis, Bowman, etc), but their entire defense is talented. They can lose a great player, and while it hurt, they're good enough every where else to keep up a similar level of play.

 

You pay Watt and Clowney these large amounts of money and you know what you're going to get around them? Little to nothing. So if your plan was to just build an incredible defense ala the 00 Ravens that can just carry the team with no help from the O, that's out the window.

 

Texans need to be REALLY careful about how they go about this. They can end up in cap hell in a hurry.

[KempBolt 498]

 

They would never be able to keep an above average QB, those two and an ok roster. Assuming Watt wants 16-17 mil a year(and I mean, if Mario Williams is making that, why should Watt make less, right?), Clowney wants top tier DE money after proving himself, gets..uh..13? we'll go with 13 a year, and we'll base the above average QB salary off of Kaep's 18 a year, that's 47 million of your cap space in 3 players. Now obviously contracts are wrote to where you don't(well, not always) make 18 a year, sometimes it's front loaded, back loaded, etc, etc, but the point is either way their putting a good amount of cap in just 3 players in that case. 34%-ish of it. Cap is going to raise as the years go on, no doubt, but so will the contracts at that point, so it keeps up.

 

And Watt proved last year he can't win games for this team. I doubt Clowney, even if he lives up to the hype, makes up the 7-8 game difference they need to reach the playoffs.

 

Building a great defense isn't even done by just signing two incredible players. Look at the Seahawks. 49ers. The great defenses of the past. They've got their great players(Sherman, Thomas, Willis, Bowman, etc), but their entire defense is talented. They can lose a great player, and while it hurt, they're good enough every where else to keep up a similar level of play.

 

You pay Watt and Clowney these large amounts of money and you know what you're going to get around them? Little to nothing. So if your plan was to just build an incredible defense ala the 00 Ravens that can just carry the team with no help from the O, that's out the window.

 

Texans need to be REALLY careful about how they go about this. They can end up in cap hell in a hurry.

47M in a QB and your two best defenders isn't going to be prohibitive to building an ok roster otherwise as the cap climbs. I'm not saying it would be easy, but it could be manageable. You'd have to draft well and be choosy about other extensions, but a higher cap ceiling would make it possible.

 

And I think it's unfair to say that Watt can't win games for his team based solely on last year. We've seen similar terrible seasons out of teams with franchise QB's. Once the situation gets terrible enough, no one player at any position can fix it all by himself.

[.AirMcNair. 1,232]

47M in a QB and your two best defenders isn't going to be prohibitive to building an ok roster otherwise as the cap climbs. I'm not saying it would be easy, but it could be manageable. You'd have to draft well and be choosy about other extensions, but a higher cap ceiling would make it possible.

 

And I think it's unfair to say that Watt can't win games for his team based solely on last year. We've seen similar terrible seasons out of teams with franchise QB's. Once the situation gets terrible enough, no one player at any position can fix it all by himself.

 

Depending on how much the cap climbs, that Clowney contract(which will be after his 3rd season) and whatever above average QB they get(assuming they do) will be more than what I listed, I imagine. Just basing it off today's cap, but I imagine the %(34) would be roughly the same, maybe a slight bit less.

 

The problem I see is how much contracts are getting bigger. Cap rising or not, the contracts are rising higher and higher(and more than the cap is rising, from what I can tell), so much so that people are shocked that Burfict, a solid linebacker no doubt, but not elite, "settled" for 20 million over 4 years.

 

It's looking like the route to go these days is build a good-great all around defense and get yourself a solid enough QB who won't make mistakes(which would still cost a bit, but not as bad as trying to get a Matt Ryan type) to go along with a good running game. The price on RBs is down, the price on QBs is up, offensive line is holding relatively steady, LTs values have gone up but not really a big deal in the grand scheme of things, then spend as evenly as you can across your defense and go from there. That's basically what the Seahawks have done, though more so through drafting that signing FAs, but 6 in one half dozen in the other as doing well at both draft and FA is important.

 

What I mean in regards to him winning games, is if you're gonna pay Watt like a top QB(which is what his contract is probably going to look like, I'm not sure he's gonna settle for even 16-17 cause he's much better than Mario Williams), then he should bring the same impact. Peyton, Brady, Brees and Rodgers can all take over a game and more or less win it for you by themselves. Brady did a good deal of that last year, Peyton did a good deal of that his final 2 or 3 years in Indy, etc. Watt can't do that. His position doesn't allow it.

 

If you took prime Peyton and put him on a bad football team they contend for the playoffs. He showed that in Indy after how badly they fell off after his injury.

 

If you take Watt and put him on a bad football team they're still a bad football team.

[KempBolt 498]

I see the point, I just think you're setting the bar for acceptable salary way too low.

 

20M could mean big issues, but 11M isn't where it needs to be to change that.

[.AirMcNair. 1,232]

I see the point, I just think you're setting the bar for acceptable salary way too low.

 

20M could mean big issues, but 11M isn't where it needs to be to change that.

Oh I know my salary expectations are way lower than any NFL GM.

 

I'm just extremely(and unreasonably, I'm sure) stingy. I look at it like if you want to take 20 million dollars a year and effect my ability to build a better football team around you, I don't want you on my team. Which would never fly as a GM cause these stuck up players of today don't know how to sacrifice for their teams, but oh well.

[seanbrock 1,684]

It's honestly in the Texans best interest to sign him asap. Forget waiting a year. It's just going to cost them more money. Every contract any defensive lineman gets is likely upping the price tag on Watt, not to mention rumors of the cap being raised.

[CampinWithaMissingPerson 2,025]

Nah, they should wait til the last second. All the way into training camp in 2016 even... yeah. Do that, Rick.

 

[Glanvilles Grits 142]

Just want to make a note that in no way do I think that the Texans should let Watt walk. I think he's the one player on that defense they should keep happy. I was simply just tossing around a scenario of why they may have been so interested in Clowney.

[seanbrock 1,684]

Just want to make a note that in no way do I think that the Texans should let Watt walk. I think he's the one player on that defense they should keep happy. I was simply just tossing around a scenario of why they may have been so interested in Clowney.

Maybe, but I'd say when they picked Clowney they were thinking about how it'll be next to impossible to block both of these guys in passing situations.