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butta54

Would you draft Winston?

  

23 members have voted

  1. 1. Would you draft Jameis Winston?



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Are we talking about the same QB who learned a Jimbo Fisher playbook as a 18 year old redshirt freshmen and went on to have a great season?

Butta's already made up his mind. :yep:

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Redshirt Freshmen who committed there before the All-American game and was learning the playbook every since. Had his whole redshirt year to learn it. Then he finally played.

 

Plus we are talking about the same offense that EJ MANUEL had to learn.

 

 

Not sure where the relevance is with that?

 

FSU QBs over the years have been known to wow scouts with their knowledge, and understanding of NFL verbege, blocking schemes, etc. We all heard about how both Ponder and Manuel impressed coaches and scouts with their chalkboard knowledge.

 

 

We are talking about a system that is on par with many in the NFL. Jimbo's system is complex and mentally demanding and he himself has a perfectionist style of coaching which puts a ton of responsibility and need for maturity on the QB. This is well noted.

 

Whatever immaturity that Winston has shown off the field is clearly offset by the amount he's shown on it.

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I want to see how he finishes out this year on the field. Jimbo and some others are citing the inexperience at WR being why his play has dropped off some. Which makes some sense, WRs running wrong routes and making other mistakes, etc. But I'm not willing to fully buy that excuse just yet, just to keep an open and unbiased mind. Other than last week his running game was non-existent for the most part. His OL looks worse even though it's the same guys basically sans-Stork. His defense is pretty mediocre this year too. But for a pro projection his mechanics are pretty ugly as most of us know. Someone compared him to Phillip Rivers recently. Funky delivery, but sees the field well etc. Not sure if that fits though, but first time hearing that which is interesting.

Off the field wise? Really the most blatant thing that's without a doubt provable he's done is walking out with crab legs. Which is absolutely dumb, but I could look past that as a GM to be honest. We'll probably never know if he "raped" that girl, though IMO the evidence brought up to the public points to that he didn't (two different semen samples, no signs of force on her person.) The other stuff like the bb gun fights with his friends, and yelling FHRITP are pretty silly college kid stuff. He's definitely shown he's oblivious to his celebrity so far off the field. Which isn't a good sign as of yet.

 

But I don't think the book is done being written on him yet. I'm wait and see still. I have no answer as of now.

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Not sure where the relevance is with that?

 

FSU QBs over the years have been known to wow scouts with their knowledge, and understanding of NFL verbege, blocking schemes, etc. We all heard about how both Ponder and Manuel impressed coaches and scouts with their chalkboard knowledge.

 

 

We are talking about a system that is on par with many in the NFL. Jimbo's system is complex and mentally demanding and he himself has a perfectionist style of coaching which puts a ton of responsibility and need for maturity on the QB. This is well noted.

 

Whatever immaturity that Winston has shown off the field is clearly offset by the amount he's shown on it.

 

Very relevant. In all honesty I'm not a big college football fan and claim to know much about Jimbo Fisher.

 

But you are talking about Ponder and Manuel who have proven so far exactly how high their football IQ is. I'm not sure where you heard all this about them impressing people prior to the draft, but the way I remember it Ponder wasn't seen as a first round QB and neither was Manuel. I know for a fact watching Manuel that he couldn't read a coverage to save his life and still can't in the NFL. Ponder has lost his job multiple times to multiple people. The offense I've watched the few times I've seen FSU play is nothing complex or even pro-style. They run a lot of zone-read option and spread principles like most teams.

 

I can't get with a praising Winston for being in a system that has produced some pretty garbage QBs...not to mention he only had one year of success and is declining this year. Loss of talent or not, college is a place where elite QBs can make bad teams look good and he doesn't.

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-He has multiple instances where he caused trouble with a fucking BB gun. He and other players broke windows at his apartment while having a BB gun fight and he also brought one onto campus to shoot squirrels.

 

 

LMAO I never heard about that!

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Very relevant. In all honesty I'm not a big college football fan and claim to know much about Jimbo Fisher.

 

But you are talking about Ponder and Manuel who have proven so far exactly how high their football IQ is. I'm not sure where you heard all this about them impressing people prior to the draft, but the way I remember it Ponder wasn't seen as a first round QB and neither was Manuel. I know for a fact watching Manuel that he couldn't read a coverage to save his life and still can't in the NFL. Ponder has lost his job multiple times to multiple people. The offense I've watched the few times I've seen FSU play is nothing complex or even pro-style. They run a lot of zone-read option and spread principles like most teams.

 

I can't get with a praising Winston for being in a system that has produced some pretty garbage QBs...not to mention he only had one year of success and is declining this year. Loss of talent or not, college is a place where elite QBs can make bad teams look good and he doesn't.

 

Those QBs aren't Winston, so they have no relevance to Winston. There is nothing to suggest Winston isn't a student of the game.

 

Passing out of the spread doesn't mean they don't have pro style concepts. He still has to go through progressions, and the line as well as the receivers use pro style concepts.

 

And that line doesn't make sense to me. FSU averages 39 points a game, and are undefeated, at #2. This is with a revamped passing game with a lot of inexperience. How does he not make his team look good? :huh:

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Dmac you just claimed Ponder and Manuel were viewed as students of the game then got proved wrong then proceeded to say, "Well they aren't Winston."

 

What point are you trying to make?

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Those QBs aren't Winston, so they have no relevance to Winston. There is nothing to suggest Winston isn't a student of the game.

 

Passing out of the spread doesn't mean they don't have pro style concepts. He still has to go through progressions, and the line as well as the receivers use pro style concepts.

 

And that line doesn't make sense to me. FSU averages 39 points a game, and are undefeated, at #2. This is with a revamped passing game with a lot of inexperience. How does he not make his team look good? :huh:

 

You brought up Manuel and Ponder being called "students of the game" by scouts in order to make the point that Winston is working with a complicated playbook. My point is Ponder and Manuel have clearly shown that they aren't students of the game so the playbook Winston is working with isn't as complicated as you might think.

 

Spread isn't really a formation. Spread is an offense full of concepts and plays. Zone-Read option, bubble screen series are all spread concepts that Florida State runs. Lining up in the shotgun over 90% of the time eliminates pro-style blocking schemes. The route concepts can be pro-style. Winston is running a spread offense just like Manuel did.

 

When you win a Heisman and you are being talked about as the #1 overall pick your expectations are alot higher. Ranking 19th in offense is not impressive. They are undefeated but barely...look at their schedule this year compared to last year. Widest victory this year is 40pts against Wake Forest. Widest victory last year was 63pts against the #3 ranked team in the country! The team even beat a good Clemeson team without Jameis this year but barely escaped Oklahoma State with Jameis. He has purely regressed plain and simple....if you want to say he lost his big target Benjamin then that just tells me he is a QB that needs someone to depend on for his success. I'm not making a finally lable on WInston cause I haven't evaluated him, but he doesn't pass the eye test this year. He clearly went backwards.

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Jameis looked like 2013-2014 Jameis finally tonight. Good sign, but he has been worse this year as a whole. Let's see if this is where he picks it up finally and closes out good. Honestly last year his bad run started in the ACC Championship and BCS Title game. They weren't "bad" by normal QB standards but by the standard he set for himself prior to those games. He continued that into this year and tonight was the first time he looked like the Jameis who warranted winning the Heisman last year.

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Dmac you just claimed Ponder and Manuel were viewed as students of the game then got proved wrong then proceeded to say, "Well they aren't Winston."

 

What point are you trying to make?

 

The point was that the other two have bigger issues then just, stuff between the ears. To make a claim that both those guys came out of that offense and don't look good in the NFL as a reason why Jameis would fail is faulty logic.

 

How has Ponder and Manuel been proven to not be "students of the game" are there a million reports out there of both of those guys NOT knowing their X's and O's? Of not taking time to study film, etc? To not taking time to learn playbooks?

 

You can know your Xs and Os as well as anyone, and be great on the chalk board (which again, the other two have/had shown the ability to do) but if you can't apply them in game, then it has less to do with your knowledge of the game or how much you study, but just your ability to keep up with the speed of the game. Or lacking the physical tools.

 

Which is the reason why I said neither one of them are Winston. Because whereas Manuel showed the inability to (more times then not) apply what he knows on the field, Winston hasn't had that problem. And as we all know, he doesn't lack any of the physical tools required.

 

 

You brought up Manuel and Ponder being called "students of the game" by scouts in order to make the point that Winston is working with a complicated playbook. My point is Ponder and Manuel have clearly shown that they aren't students of the game so the playbook Winston is working with isn't as complicated as you might think.

 

Spread isn't really a formation. Spread is an offense full of concepts and plays. Zone-Read option, bubble screen series are all spread concepts that Florida State runs. Lining up in the shotgun over 90% of the time eliminates pro-style blocking schemes. The route concepts can be pro-style. Winston is running a spread offense just like Manuel did.

 

When you win a Heisman and you are being talked about as the #1 overall pick your expectations are alot higher. Ranking 19th in offense is not impressive. They are undefeated but barely...look at their schedule this year compared to last year. Widest victory this year is 40pts against Wake Forest. Widest victory last year was 63pts against the #3 ranked team in the country! The team even beat a good Clemeson team without Jameis this year but barely escaped Oklahoma State with Jameis. He has purely regressed plain and simple....if you want to say he lost his big target Benjamin then that just tells me he is a QB that needs someone to depend on for his success. I'm not making a finally lable on WInston cause I haven't evaluated him, but he doesn't pass the eye test this year. He clearly went backwards.

 

Again, how have they shown this?

 

What information do you have that I don't have that tells you they aren't "students of the game"? Are you automatically equating success, or the case of the other two fails because they aren't "students of the game"?

 

Because, God forbid, its impossible for them to have issues outside of just how much they know.

 

Look no further then the game today to see the good and the bad with Winston. He did look worse then his previous year in the first half. And I'd be lying if I said that wasn't concerning. But in the second half, we saw him make adjustments to protections, hot reads, calling out blitzes, and going through his progressions. This is stuff you didn't see Manuel do in college.

Edited by DonovanMcnabb for H.O.F

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If Winston declares this year we will know a bit more about him by then.

As it stands right now it would be risky for a franchise that is struggling with depth if other very good prospects at positions of need were available on their pick - especially if there is another decent QB prospect available.

Winston might grow up, and grow out of his issues but what if that is just his make-up? You could blow a very valuable high first round pick.

Too risky at this point.

Otoh, if he is still there on your second pick and you badly need a QB, you would have to seriously consider it. You would still have to consider his off field antics, etc,.

Edited by Wattafan

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Again, how have they shown this?

 

What information do you have that I don't have that tells you they aren't "students of the game"? Are you automatically equating success, or the case of the other two fails because they aren't "students of the game"?

 

Because, God forbid, its impossible for them to have issues outside of just how much they know.

 

Look no further then the game today to see the good and the bad with Winston. He did look worse then his previous year in the first half. And I'd be lying if I said that wasn't concerning. But in the second half, we saw him make adjustments to protections, hot reads, calling out blitzes, and going through his progressions. This is stuff you didn't see Manuel do in college.

 

 

It's not hard to decipher. A QB can have a hundred different problems that lead to poor execution on the field. EJ Manuel and Ponder's main problem is recognizing coverage fast enough to determine where to go with the ball. That is a direct correlation to concepts vs. concepts which is learned through Xs and Os and film study of the opponent. "Students of the Game" wouldn't have those issues.

 

To be 100% fair I believe alot of the adjustments to the attack was Jimbo at half-time, but I'm giving Winston credit for having all the physical intangibles that scouts drool over, but he did have alot more control pre-play than Manuel or Ponder had. Again I haven't studied him. Last night and the BCS was my longest look at him as a football player so he could very well be elite when all the scouting is done.

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Would you rather risk miss out on a elite QB? Or an elite defensive end?

If the QB I'm missing out on has more unchecked baggage than Southwest Airlines then yes I'd rather take the pass rusher.

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This conversation will probably come up more times during the season/postseason, so I'll just leave it alone. But I just don't understand how anyone can say he isn't. Or what that would be based off of.

 

 

Hard count to see where the blitz is coming from, calls an audible to hit behind the blitz, great ball. As far as I'm concerned, his football IQ is more then good enough. And it's well documented by many that the guy not only has a great football IQ, but he's a natural.

Edited by DonovanMcnabb for H.O.F

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No longer on Winston as 1st-rounder. Getting held onto by ACC defenses. Honestly see him in NFL as Weeden mobile.

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If the Eagles are picking in the 15-25 range (as I think they will), and Foles hasn't shown improvement? Hell yes.

 

Ya, I'm flip-flopping on this one. Winston is in do-not-want mode now. :nope:

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If he really raped a girl, it's disgusting that someone would want him on their team. After all the outrage here and elsewhere about the light treatment (originally) of Ray Rice, I don't understand why this wouldn't bother people even more.

 

This, and since I believe he did indeed do so, I don't want him anywhere near a team I like. Man should be in jail.

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Per Rotoworld.com:

 

Florida State QB Jameis Winston won't announce if he's declaring for the NFL Draft until after next week's national title game.
The deadline is next Thursday, so Winston has only nine more days to decide. There's been recent speculation that he could return for another year at FSU, but it's supremely unlikely. Winston figures to be this year's most-controversial prospect, but in a league so starved for quarterback talent, he'll almost certainly be a first-round pick. Jan 6 - 3:09 PM
Source: ESPN.com

 

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I think he's gonna stay.

 

\Could he be waiting to see what Mariota's going to do?

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Per ESPN.com

 

 

"After weighing this decision with my family and friends, I have decided to declare for the 2015 NFL Draft and forgo my remaining eligibility at Florida State," Winston said in the statement. "I reached this very difficult decision after careful consideration and long thought, realizing how difficult it would be to say goodbye to my family at Florida State. I am eternally grateful for the opportunity to wear the garnet and gold and have greatly enjoyed my time as a Seminole, both as an athlete and a student in the classroom."

 

Antonor Winston said his son received a first-round grade from the NFL draft advisory committee.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I think he's gonna stay.

 

\Could he be waiting to see what Mariota's going to do?

 

Vin LAWST :yep:

Edited by butta55
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It's apparent that he was just waiting for me to voice my opinion so he could do the opposite of whatever I said. :nonono:

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