Trump Regime thread.

[Favre4Ever+ 4,476]

 

I'd happily take home a smaller paycheck if it meant universal health care.

 

No Universal Healthcare, it's just you paying for everyone else. The rest of us don't have to. Spending other people's money when you haven't worried about anything financially ever is kinda of hilarious.. or should I say... Rich?

 

Edited June 16, 2017 by Banned4Ever

[blotsfan 2,112]

 

No Universal Healthcare, it's just you paying for everyone else. The rest of us don't have to. Spending other people's money when you haven't worried about anything financially ever is kinda of hilarious.. or should I say... Rich?

 

I'm not really sure what you're getting at here.

[Favre4Ever+ 4,476]

We aren't getting Universal Healthcare. You are going to pay for our healthcare. It's pretty straight forward. Lol. Sorry if it was confusing.

[Cherry 1,302]

 

I'd happily take home a smaller paycheck if it meant universal health care.

 

It would take most people going home with 1/10th of their paycheck if you wanted to implement all the desired government programs effectively. I'm in favor of a system which pays for emergency operations and medications, but you'd have to cut a lot of the fat off the rest of universal health care.

[blotsfan 2,112]

We aren't getting Universal Healthcare. You are going to pay for our healthcare. It's pretty straight forward. Lol. Sorry if it was confusing.

So it was just a joke that doesn't make much sense. Alright.

[Favre4Ever+ 4,476]

To be worth 10% of my check, I'd practically want to be a ward of the state. Universal Health Care is not enough, we have to move to single payer if we are going to do it. I'd want pretty much everything covered... Drugs, most specialists, mental health has to be included.

 

If I and millions of others are going to pay 10% of your paycheck, and then 3/4 of us have to still go get private insurance or extra plans to cover what needs to be covered -- that system isn't working.

Edited June 16, 2017 by Banned4Ever

[seanbrock 1,684]

We could easily make the rich pay for more of it. That's why we have tax brackets and idk where the figure of 10% of your paycheck is coming from. Would love to see a source for that. Honestly if military spending was cut and we weren't at war with . Right now we're taxed 5.8% for shitty overpriced health care. Then you have to spend out of pocket on top of that which is basically a hidden tax. A hidden tax on the poor and middle class. I think it stands to reason that if we drastically reduced the cost by removing profit incentive of insurance companies and spending 100% or damn close to 100% of the money on your actual health care. Obviously we need to address the cost of drugs too but I don't see how it's a foregone conclusion that it's going to cost you MORE to make sure everyone is covered. How much of the average joe's annual pay do you think it is with 5.8% tax and then on top of that spending out of pocket? It some cases it's MUCH much more than 10%. You guys are nuts.

[Cherry 1,302]

Using per capita income in the entire US, the average income was approximately $27,500 in 2011. Let's spread that out by the amount of people in the United States. Approximately 125 million individuals who are working full time (35 hours or more). This means the U.S. as a whole nets approximately 3,437,500,000,000 in income. I'm gonna assume that's before taxes is taken out. So roughly 3.4 trillion in net income.

 

So now for benefits. According to the social security administration just under 61 million people applied for benefits, either due to being retired, being disabled, or being a survivor. Let's assume that the goal of social security and benefits in general is to replicate the average standard of living. So let's go with $27,500 for that. If you give 61 million people an average income of $27,500 through social security, that will cost you 1,677,500,000,000. Roughly 1.7 trillion dollars. To be specific, the amount of money it would cost to provide that average standard of living to all who receive social security benefits would be 48.8% of the total income of all working individuals.

 

Now let's use Forbes estimate of the total annual cost of healthcare in the U.S. in 2014. 3.8 trillion.

 

I think you can see the impact of that. That's already more than the total income of the United States.

 

So let's be generous and assume that a large number of individuals are making money beyond those full time workers. That's still 5.5 trillion dollars you're going to have to pay for if you want to provide the exact same care and benefits.

 

Don't forget that we're also providing trillions of dollars in welfare as well.

 

Sources:

 

Forbes

https://www.forbes.com/sites/danmunro/2014/02/02/annual-u-s-healthcare-spending-hits-3-8-trillion/#5110cf3876a9

 

Social Security Administration

https://www.ssa.gov/oact/STATS/OASDIbenies.html

 

Mah Calculator

 

P.S. Per capita income includes the rich. Obviously you could make the argument of off-shore accounts and shit, but it's still not enough to pay for everything.

Edited June 16, 2017 by Chernobyl426

[seanbrock 1,684]

American's cost of health care is at over 10k a year. That's a hell of a lot more than 10% of your income for the average person.

 

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/rundown/new-peak-us-health-care-spending-10345-per-person/

 

The premiums and co-pay's are hidden taxes on the middle and working class.

 

They average paying around 1,300 out of pocket plus the 5.8% in tax is around 6100. That's more than 10% of 27-2800 that's the average income that people already pay. Ten percent of the average income is 2,800 roughly so if it's that or 6,100. I'm taking the universal health care with better out comes that's more than half the cost every single time.

 

the current system only pays like 60% of your health care lol and if you get real sick or real hurt you could be real fucked, real fast.

Edited June 17, 2017 by seanbrock

[Cherry 1,302]

I think you misunderstood my point, Sean. If you want to have healthcare paid for through taxes and receive care that includes regular checkups, non-essential prescriptions, or anything really beyond emergency procedures, it would bankrupt the nation.

[seanbrock 1,684]

Why does it work for all these other countries but not us? Yes we have more people but we also generate much more wealth and have a way bigger tax base.

[Favre4Ever+ 4,476]

Prices are outrageous here. On mostly everything.

 

EDIT:

BTW, Colombia has a tax of roughly 11% for their health care and they cover almost everything. Unlike Canada who charges 10% and 75% of people have to have extra coverage.

Big swing there.

Edited June 17, 2017 by Banned4Ever

[Sarge+ 3,436]

BTW, Colombia has a tax of roughly 11% for their health care and they cover almost everything. Unlike Canada who charges 10% and 75% of people have to have extra coverage.

 

 

When people ask me why I'm never leaving here, this is one of the first things I say.

[seanbrock 1,684]

Prices are outrageous here. On mostly everything.

 

EDIT:

 

BTW, Colombia has a tax of roughly 11% for their health care and they cover almost everything. Unlike Canada who charges 10% and 75% of people have to have extra coverage.

 

Big swing there.

From what I've seen even Canada's program is more coverage than we have for less than what we pay. I agree that we need to address the cost of health care. Actually I think everyone on the message board with political opinions would agree on that so that's a great starting point. Eliminating insurance companies so more of our money spent on health care goes to actual health care and not towards the profit for the companies and then also kicking big pharma in the nuts would both be a great start imo.

[Favre4Ever+ 4,476]

From what I've seen even Canada's program is more coverage than we have for less than what we pay. I agree that we need to address the cost of health care. Actually I think everyone on the message board with political opinions would agree on that so that's a great starting point. Eliminating insurance companies so more of our money spent on health care goes to actual health care and not towards the profit for the companies and then also kicking big pharma in the nuts would both be a great start imo.

It's not surprising that a UHC system has more coverage than a system that isn't UHC. Again, 75% of them buy separate coverage though -- and I am not a fan of that. If 10% of my check is going to healthcare, I better get some damn healthcare. Spending even more to get adequate coverage seems counter-productive to me.

 

EDIT: For example, Canada doesn't include universal drug coverage in their UHC plans... That's a big reason people go out and buy extra coverage, because their system doesn't cover enough... Now, as most of us know, drugs in Canada are a lot cheaper than they are here. So.. if Canadians, with cheaper drugs still need to take out extra plans to cover drugs -- can you imagine what would happen here in the US if we didn't have universal drug coverage? It would be chaos as is.

Edited June 17, 2017 by Banned4Ever

[Omerta+ 1,206]

I think you misunderstood my point, Sean. If you want to have healthcare paid for through taxes and receive care that includes regular checkups, non-essential prescriptions, or anything really beyond emergency procedures, it would bankrupt the nation.

 

False...sort of. The way it is set up now, you are still wrong, but not by much when you consider tiers of coverage and those people who slip past the cracks statistically speaking which is a lot.

 

This is really false if you crack down on big pharma and medical equipment manufacturers. for instance a brace that costs a doctor $50 after the manufacturer marks up his cost which the brace itself is made for $15, so the manufacturer makes 300 percent profit, then the doctor will turn around and sell it for $150 dollars to make his 300 percent profit. Then the insurance has to make sure they dont lose money so they skimp on coverage elsewhere.

 

You cant address this problem simply using math. I wish it could as I understand math very well. The only simple explanation here is greed.

 

Think about the military budget much in the same way. We dont need to cut it at all really, just quit letting buddies of politicians make money. If we did not pay raytheon on $112 dollars for a shitty green plastic handled hammer, and went to sears and bought one off their shelves our budget would fix itself.

[seanbrock 1,684]

In France you get an itemized list of where your tax dollars go on your pay stub. They should do that in every country.

[OSUViking 505]

 

Think about the military budget much in the same way. We dont need to cut it at all really, just quit letting buddies of politicians make money. If we did not pay raytheon on $112 dollars for a shitty green plastic handled hammer, and went to sears and bought one off their shelves our budget would fix itself.

 

Definitely agree here. The U.S. can still afford to field the strongest military and then some, but it just wastes so much goddamn money in the procurement process. It's broken as shit. It's mind boggling to imagine that an industry that is so crucial to the military was allowed to devolve into this mess. I personally think that, for this reason, state-run arms industries would be better. However, corruption will breed no matter what.

[Cherry 1,302]

 

False...sort of. The way it is set up now, you are still wrong, but not by much when you consider tiers of coverage and those people who slip past the cracks statistically speaking which is a lot.

 

This is really false if you crack down on big pharma and medical equipment manufacturers. for instance a brace that costs a doctor $50 after the manufacturer marks up his cost which the brace itself is made for $15, so the manufacturer makes 300 percent profit, then the doctor will turn around and sell it for $150 dollars to make his 300 percent profit. Then the insurance has to make sure they dont lose money so they skimp on coverage elsewhere.

 

You cant address this problem simply using math. I wish it could as I understand math very well. The only simple explanation here is greed.

 

Think about the military budget much in the same way. We dont need to cut it at all really, just quit letting buddies of politicians make money. If we did not pay raytheon on $112 dollars for a shitty green plastic handled hammer, and went to sears and bought one off their shelves our budget would fix itself.

 

Well then let me compare them head to head between the United States and Canada. This is using a different set of statistics from what Forbes has, so you can decide which one you prefer.

 

The average per capita cost of healthcare in the United States is $9,086. The average per capita cost of healthcare in Canada is $4,569. Even then, if you stretch the $4,569 dollars over all 326 million Americans, you still come out at a cost around 1.5 trillion (US ends up at roughly 2.96 trillion) . Let's assume we put that on top of the social programs requirement and we're hitting 3.2 trillion, which would be about 95% of that estimate on total new income.

 

A few things of note that I found when studying the stats on it though.

 

First, most nations have an obesity rate (over 30 BMI) somewhere around 25%. The United States has it around 35%.

 

Second, while most countries average around 1.5 prescription drugs per person, the United States averages around 2.2 per person.

 

Even if you eliminate a lot of the BS pricing markups that insurance companies and the healthcare industry like to do, it's still way too large a part of our total new income as a society to pay for, at least in as large a manner as Canada currently does.

 

Source

 

http://www.commonwealthfund.org/publications/issue-briefs/2015/oct/us-health-care-from-a-global-perspective

Edited June 17, 2017 by Chernobyl426

[seanbrock 1,684]

Legalize marijuana and you'd have a lot less people prescribed to opioids and anti-depressants. Legal medical marijuana would eliminate the need for a shit load of prescription drugs and that's a huge reason why there are so many road blocks to just making it legal. There are a lot of industries that make a lot of money off of it being criminalized.

 

The other thing that should be done is outlawing GMO's and a lot of other chemicals in our foods and giving subsidies and local farms and none to corporate farms. That would curb obesity rates a lot.

 

It would take A LOT more than universal health care bankrupt this country though.

[Favre4Ever+ 4,476]

Considering our debt and the rate at which the fed prints cash, id say we're pretty much there already.

 

Not incorporated correctly, and it could just bankrupt the country through its people.

[seanbrock 1,684]

Except foreign people and countries love to buy US bonds because they're extremely secure. We have the worlds largest economy by a lot and the strongest military by a lot. A much bigger issue than national debt is personal debt which would crash the economy faster than anything else would just like it always has been the biggest threat to our economy and yet it's the banks that always get bailed out instead. Obviously eliminating medical bankruptcies would help that but the Student Loan bubble is coming and the housing bubble is going to pop again too. We need to bail out the people and not the banks again because it's just an enormous transfer of wealth and it hurts our economy.

[Cherry 1,302]

The other thing that should be done is outlawing GMO's and a lot of other chemicals in our foods and giving subsidies and local farms and none to corporate farms. That would curb obesity rates a lot.

 

This might be one of the dumbest things I've ever heard holy shit. GMOs are fantastic. It's a means of mass producing food at a consistent rate with less chance of weather conditions or disease annihilating the crop. The obesity rate isn't bad because of GMOs. It's bad because as a nation we love our shitty fast food and have made overeating a socially acceptable choice. Also our culture of "no fat shaming!" fucks up our health too.

[Favre4Ever+ 4,476]

" No fat shaming " doesn't fuck up our health, it just makes you us not pieces of shit.

[Thanatos 2,847]

Legalize marijuana and you'd have a lot less people prescribed to opioids and anti-depressants. Legal medical marijuana would eliminate the need for a shit load of prescription drugs and that's a huge reason why there are so many road blocks to just making it legal. There are a lot of industries that make a lot of money off of it being criminalized.

 

The other thing that should be done is outlawing GMO's and a lot of other chemicals in our foods and giving subsidies and local farms and none to corporate farms. That would curb obesity rates a lot.

 

It would take A LOT more than universal health care bankrupt this country though.

 

Wait a minute, you think GMOs contribute to obesity? That is right up there with vaccines causing autism lol.

 

The GMO thing is a scare tactic from people who don't know jack shit about what they are talking about.

Edited June 17, 2017 by Thanatos