CeeGee 0 Posted February 2, 2012 I'm tired of people bashing Colt McCoy. I honestly believe that the Cleveland Browns can win with McCoy if they put the proper pieces in place... Like any QB in the League, they need to be surrounded by good players to succeed... Lets take a look at all the things that McCoy had to overcome since last Season, where he started the final few games of the Seaason... 1) New Head Coach and O/C 2) New system to go along with that new HC and OC 3) Shortened Off-Season due to lockout 4) No training camp to learn the new system 5) Drama all Season with Peyton Hillis 6) A WR core that led the NFL in Dropped Passes, didn't have a legit Deep threat, and didn't have a guy that could consistently get open... 7) One of the worst RG and RT To say that this can't simply CAN NOT play is ridiculous... If you look at the way he played, despite all of these obstacles, I think its clear that this kid can play... He reminds me of Drew Brees, when Brees was in San Diego early in his career. The Charger kept flipping between him and Doug Flutie until finally they gave Brees the job. In his 1st Season as a starter, Brees had eerily similar numbers as McCoy's this past Season... Yet, the Chargers stuck with him. Brees: 2002 - 16 GP - 320/526 - 60% - 3,284 yards - 17 TD - 16 int - 76.9 QB Rating 2003 - 11 GP - 205/356 - 57% - 2,108 yards - 11 TD - 15 int - 67.5 QB Rating McCOy: 2011 - 13 GP - 265/463 - 57% - 2,733 yards - 14 TD - 11 int - 74.6 QB Rating After 2 Seasons like above, in Cleveland, all the Browns fans and Media would have been calling for Brees' head, much like they are for McCoy right now... But, Brees is a perfect example of what can happen when you put good players around someone, and give them a chance to really learn and understand a system... Look at Brees' next 2 Seasons... 2004 - 15 GP - 262/400 - 65% - 3,159 yards - 27 TD - 7 int - 104.8 QB Rating 2005 - 16 GP - 323/500 - 64% - 3,576 yards - 24 TD - 15 int - 89.2 QB Rating Its clear that Colt McCoy has the "IT" Factor. The kid is a pure leader. He has Heart and determination... I wont argue that his arm isn't the strongest, but neither is Brees' or other great QB's of the past... To only give this kid 1 Season to prove himself, with basically NOTHING around him is completely UNFAIR... I say with the two 1st round picks, the Browns need to address the WR need, and the RT need... Adding some pieces on the Offensive side of the Ball in FA would be nice too... My main point is, I DO NOT want this RG3 kid... He may be talented but I don't think we need him because I honestly feel like Colt McCoy can take us where we need to go... We just need to build a complete team, rather than chaging Quarterbacks and Coaches every 2 years... What do you guys think? 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RazorStar 4,025 Posted February 2, 2012 I dunno about McCoy. He definitely seems like he could be a good player, and at the very worst, he's the second best QB out of the 2010 draft class. (Tebow being number 1 of course). His receivers drop a lot of passes (PFF is crediting them with 43, 36 in 13 games for Colt, 7 in 3 games for Wallace), Outside of Thomas and Mack, they don't have good offensive linemen, and there are a lot of things that can fly as excuses for McCoy. I guess you could say the jury is still out on him, but he hasn't been impressive yet, and it'd be optimistic to say he'll improve in his third year. I'm not sold on RG3 either. If people are expecting to him to be Cam Newton, they should look past the superficial similarities and really study hard on what he does for your team, and what he can realistically do in the NFL. I'm gonna say Rookie RG3 does not give you a better chance to win than Colt, so if you aren't 100% sure on Griff's development I'd stick with McCoy. Chances are Cleveland is not gonna get a chance to draft him anyway. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Thanatos 2,847 Posted February 2, 2012 Cleveland should not give up on him that fast unless they think they have a franchise QB in RG3, which as Razor said, is not a sure thing. Get Justin Blackmon at #4 if you can. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tridentdawgpound 1,043 Posted February 2, 2012 I still want RGIII, but only if he's available at #4. If we trade up for him I will tip something over. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zack_of_Steel+ 3,014 Posted February 2, 2012 I still want RGIII, but only if he's available at #4. If we trade up for him I will tip something over. Lucky for your mom, then. Cow tipping never works. 4 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NaTaS+ 958 Posted February 3, 2012 Good first post CeeGee. I dont think it's out of the realm of possibility that Colt can get his confidence back and start putting together a good rhythm with the offense. I do not see Drew Brees in him, I usually see Colt in a state of panic. There are plenty of good QBs out there with shitty lines that manage to succeed but I do agree that he was learning a new offense as a very young guy. I'm not opposed to giving him more time. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
badgers 380 Posted February 3, 2012 (edited) Yeah I am still not sold on McCoy but I trust Holmgren. If he thinks McCoy can be good, he must have some type of potential. Get Blackmon if Minny or StL doesn't take him and hey, maybe McCoy will turn it around. Edit- And I have no doubt in my mind that Pat Shurmur is one of the reasons that McCoy played poorly. Edit 2- Good first post, +1 Edited February 3, 2012 by badgers Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CeeGee 0 Posted February 3, 2012 @badgers - I agree 100% with the Shurmur comment... I knew the plays that were coming from my couch, so, I'm pretty sure the opposing Defense and Defensive Coordinator knew what was coming as well. I think the main point of my post was that he just needs more time, and its extremely unfair to label or judge him after 1 Season with so many things not going in his favor. I for one, am a believer that the QB gets too much praise when things go well, and too much Blame when things go bad... Colt definitely was not THE reason the Browns struggled last Season. And I'm not making excuses, just stating facts - 28th ranked Rush Offense... - 32nd in Rush Touchdowns... - 30th ranked Rush Defense... - 1st in the league in Dropped Passes... I don't want to make it sound like I think Colt McCoy can be as good as Drew Brees, I just used Brees as an example, because he is of similar stature (small) and struggled early in his career... Yet, San Diego stuck with him through the hard times (except for the shoulder surgery) and look at what he has become now... Main point... Give Colt a legit chance to succeed... Give this Organization the "Face" that we have so desperately needed for the last 12 Years... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CeeGee 0 Posted February 3, 2012 (edited) **double post** Edited February 3, 2012 by NaTaS Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CribbsForTheWin 117 Posted February 3, 2012 Drew Brees has a much bigger arm though. I like Colt, but IDK if I like him as our starting QB. I'm not sold on RGIII either though, but I think if Blackmon is gone and RGIII is there, I think we have to take RGIII Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DonovanMcnabb for H.O.F 2,241 Posted February 3, 2012 (edited) Just more excuses for why you should keep a QB who will probably never be anything more then average as your starter. Edited February 3, 2012 by DonovanMcnabb for H.O.F Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Barracuda 629 Posted February 3, 2012 This is basically exactly what I think about the situation also. I think WR/OT or LB is the way to go in the draft. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FartWaffles 1,857 Posted February 4, 2012 he's the second best QB out of the 2010 draft class. (Tebow being number 1 of course). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AL_Royalty 489 Posted February 4, 2012 ...there are a lot of things that can fly as excuses for McCoy. I guess you could say the jury is still out on him, but he hasn't been impressive yet, and it'd be optimistic to say he'll improve in his third year. I'm not sold on RG3 either. If people are expecting to him to be Cam Newton, they should look past the superficial similarities and really study hard on what he does for your team, and what he can realistically do in the NFL. I'm gonna say Rookie RG3 does not give you a better chance to win than Colt, so if you aren't 100% sure on Griff's development I'd stick with McCoy. Chances are Cleveland is not gonna get a chance to draft him anyway. I agree with you completely about McCoy. It's more wishful thinking to believe that he'll magically turn it around. Speaking to the Cam/RG3 aspect of your post, there were many people—myself included—who looked at the film on Cam Newton and came up with the conclussion that he wouldn't be able to do much in the NFL. He looked like a taller, more athletic Tim Tebow, who was also predicted to be a bust—not by me—and they both turned out to have good years as starters. RG3 is just another rookie QB. No one knows what he'll amount to at the next level, but I believe he beats McCoy in all the measurables, throws a deeper deep ball, can see over the line, is clearly more athletic, is capable of creating big plays, etc... Even if you're not sold on RG3, it's hard to not be sold on McCoy being anything more than a mediocre QB at best. It's not hard to be an upgrade from that. Cleveland should not give up on him that fast unless they think they have a franchise QB in RG3, which as Razor said, is not a sure thing.Get Justin Blackmon at #4 if you can. There's no way that Blackmon is on the board at #4 IMO. I just can't even see it as a possibility, and besides, what good is a deep threat when your QB can't throw the ball deep? As for RG3, I think they have to take him. Colt is pretty clearly not the answer as far as I'm concerned. @badgers - I agree 100% with the Shurmur comment... I knew the plays that were coming from my couch, so, I'm pretty sure the opposing Defense and Defensive Coordinator knew what was coming as well. I think the main point of my post was that he just needs more time, and its extremely unfair to label or judge him after 1 Season with so many things not going in his favor. I for one, am a believer that the QB gets too much praise when things go well, and too much Blame when things go bad... Colt definitely was not THE reason the Browns struggled last Season. And I'm not making excuses, just stating facts- 28th ranked Rush Offense... - 32nd in Rush Touchdowns...- 30th ranked Rush Defense...- 1st in the league in Dropped Passes...I don't want to make it sound like I think Colt McCoy can be as good as Drew Brees, I just used Brees as an example, because he is of similar stature (small) and struggled early in his career... Yet, San Diego stuck with him through the hard times (except for the shoulder surgery) and look at what he has become now... Main point... Give Colt a legit chance to succeed... Give this Organization the "Face" that we have so desperately needed for the past 12 years. First off, welcome to TGP and good first post. That being said, I completely disagree with almost all of it. McCoy has trouble getting the ball over the line, has a noodle arm, and is seemingly only effective throwing short to intermediate routes while rolling out to his right. The rest of the offense is pretty terrible. That much is true, but I see McCoy as just another bad apple on a poisoned tree that is the Cleveland Browns offense. I've watched a lot of him, and I rarely see anything to make me think that he'll ever play considerably better than he has. There are just so many things wrong with his game. Plus, the Browns need more than just a face. They need a franchise QB who can win games and be a leader. Colt just doesn't strike me as any of those things. He looks rattled all the time, and has a noodle arm. Just more excuses for why you should keep a QB who will probably never be anything more then average as your starter. Pretty much my thoughts exactly. Unfortunately, you're barking up the wrong TGP tree. Most folks around here are anti-Bradford, calling him and overrated, overhyped bust. I still think he'll end up being the best of a bad 2010 QB crop, but like I said, this is a moot point around here. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Thanatos 2,847 Posted February 4, 2012 (edited) There's no way that Blackmon is on the board at #4 IMO. I just can't even see it as a possibility, and besides, what good is a deep threat when your QB can't throw the ball deep? Sure there is, easily. #1- Colts- Andrew Luck #2- Anyone who trades up to get Griffin- Robert Griffin #3- Vikings- Matt Kalil And thus, #4- Browns- Justin Blackmon It gives Colt McCoy another weapon, and if he doesn't look so hot after this season, well, you still have a good weapon for whoever your QB ends up being. Edited February 4, 2012 by Thanatos19 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AL_Royalty 489 Posted February 4, 2012 Prediction: Blackmon goes 2 or 3. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DonovanMcnabb for H.O.F 2,241 Posted February 4, 2012 I agree with you completely about McCoy. It's more wishful thinking to believe that he'll magically turn it around. Speaking to the Cam/RG3 aspect of your post, there were many people—myself included—who looked at the film on Cam Newton and came up with the conclussion that he wouldn't be able to do much in the NFL. He looked like a taller, more athletic Tim Tebow, who was also predicted to be a bust—not by me—and they both turned out to have good years as starters. RG3 is just another rookie QB. No one knows what he'll amount to at the next level, but I believe he beats McCoy in all the measurables, throws a deeper deep ball, can see over the line, is clearly more athletic, is capable of creating big plays, etc... Even if you're not sold on RG3, it's hard to not be sold on McCoy being anything more than a mediocre QB at best. It's not hard to be an upgrade from that. The Browns aren't the only ones in that boat. If I am KC, WAS, MIA (unless if they get Flynn), Seattle, maybe even MIN, I would seriously consider making a push for RGIII. Especially the Chiefs. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RazorStar 4,025 Posted February 4, 2012 That's why the Browns should draft Ryan Tannehill. He's gonna be the second best QB in this class. And the Colts are taking the first. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Thanatos 2,847 Posted February 4, 2012 (edited) That's why the Browns should draft Ryan Tannehill. He's gonna be the second best QB in this class. And the Colts are taking the first. I seem to recall people saying something very similar about Blaine Gabbert. Prediction: Blackmon goes 2 or 3. I personally think the Vikes should take him at 3 over Kalil, but I'm just pointing out that saying you don't even see a possibility that Blackmon would drop to Cleveland at #4 is a little bit of an exaggeration. Edited February 4, 2012 by Thanatos19 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zack_of_Steel+ 3,014 Posted February 4, 2012 That's why the Browns should draft Ryan Tannehill. He's gonna be the second best QB in this class. And the Colts are taking the first. You also said Jimmy Clausen would be the best in his draft... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AL_Royalty 489 Posted February 5, 2012 I personally think the Vikes should take him at 3 over Kalil, but I'm just pointing out that saying you don't even see a possibility that Blackmon would drop to Cleveland at #4 is a little bit of an exaggeration. I don't see it as an exaggeration at all. I understand where you're coming from, but with the Vikings having two QBs that the fans seem to like yet no real deep threat, and the Rams having Bradford and no real WR to speak of, I would sig bet that he goes to one of those teams. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Thanatos 2,847 Posted February 5, 2012 I don't see it as an exaggeration at all. I understand where you're coming from, but with the Vikings having two QBs that the fans seem to like yet no real deep threat, and the Rams having Bradford and no real WR to speak of, I would sig bet that he goes to one of those teams. If the Rams stay at #2, yeah, I don't see him falling to 4th. But the current buzz is that someone is going to trade up to #2, I think the latest news is that it would be the 'Skins, in which scenario, if the Vikes don't take him at #3 and take Matt Kalil instead, and considering how hyped Kalil is, I could see it easily, Blackmon falls to #4. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AL_Royalty 489 Posted February 5, 2012 If the Rams stay at #2, yeah, I don't see him falling to 4th. But the current buzz is that someone is going to trade up to #2, I think the latest news is that it would be the 'Skins, in which scenario, if the Vikes don't take him at #3 and take Matt Kalil instead, and considering how hyped Kalil is, I could see it easily, Blackmon falls to #4. Hadn't heard the Washington rumor. Are they going after Griffin do you think? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Thanatos 2,847 Posted February 5, 2012 Hadn't heard the Washington rumor. Are they going after Griffin do you think? Yeah I think they are. I'm not sure why else they would trade up. Plus, I mean, when your QBs are Rex Grossman and John Beck, and Beck can't beat out Grossman, you obviously have a serious issue at QB. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CeeGee 0 Posted February 6, 2012 Thanks for the responses guys. I'm a big McCoy fan... I think with a few weapons around him and an actual PLAN on Offense, I honestly think he can succeed, and hoist that Lombardy Trophy for us, like Eli did for the GMen last night... I can name so many QB's that have overcome shortcomings early in their Careers, and have went on to play fantastic... Alex Smith? - perfect example of what happens when you stick with a guy, instead of just giving up on him and starting over... Doug Flutie? - short like McCoy, but had heart... Eli Manning? - nearly ran out of NYC 3 or 4 times in his Career... Now look at him... Drew Brees? - I've already posted my thoughts / comparison between McCoy and Brees... Don't get me wrong, I agree with allot of you that right now, Colt doesn't "look" good, but, do you really think he has no chance? Are you really ready to just give up on a guy after barely 16 games and no Off-Season to properly prepare / learn? Do you really think RG3 will do better with the Same Cast of nothingness around him? Anyone remember Tim Couch? Do you remember how he got ran out of town too early? Why do we love to run QBs out of town? Do you remember what Couch did for us in his tenure? Couch was done so dirty here, despite a clear track record of Improvement: Couch went: 2-14 / 3-13 / 7-9 /9-7 (playoffs)... And then he was ran out of town because some "flash in the pan" QB Kelly Holcomb threw for allot of yards in a playoff LOSS to the Steelers... After that, Holcomb was everyone's favorite player, and people forgot and failed to acknowledge the improvements that Couch had made... smh... Sorry, got on a little rant there lol... I mean look at all the "good" quarterbacks in the league... What do they all have in common? They all have good players / coaches / system around them... Its not just them (unless your the Colts)... It takes an entire team to win, not just a QB... Look what happen to Philip Rivers without his #1 Target Antonio Gates fully healthy... He struggled... I'm sure there are other examples out there, but I don't feel like digging at the moment lol... Also, if you look at the Browns this past Season, they lost 6 games by 6 points or less (3 with Wallace at QB) so its not like they were getting blown out in many games... A few plays here and there and those games go the other way... For god Sakes Greg Little single-handedly dropped 6 passes in one game, where the Browns lost by 3 points... That happened all Season long, and is in no way Colt McCoy's fault... I could go on and on, but I'll stop for now Again, thanks for the kind words. I'll be on here allot posting my thoughts!!! Go Browns!!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
