Who's going to have the best season of the starting rookie QB's?

[Dutch 874]

The only arguments that can be made is for Luck, RG3 and Wilson. Who feels as though they made the right call?

[Jayrus 51]

Well, we now know the answer. Wilson is the only one who still has a season at this point.

[DonovanMcnabb for H.O.F 2,241]

Well, we now know the answer. Wilson is the only one who still has a season at this point.

 

Irrelevant

[Turry 755]

Well, we now know the answer. Wilson is the only one who still has a season at this point.

Individuals don't win games, teams do. Pretty stupid post but I don't expect much from a fan boy homer like yourself.

[ATL_Predator+ 1,196]

Looks like Chia, Bware (sigh), and I should be bowed to......

[BigBen07 285]

Well, we now know the answer. Wilson is the only one who still has a season at this point.

 

[SteVo+ 3,702]

I think DMac sets the record for most rep received from a one-word post. Jayrus had it coming, though.

Edited January 9, 2013 by SteVo

[Omerta+ 1,206]

Irrelevant

 

 

Individuals don't win games, teams do. Pretty stupid post but I don't expect much from a fan boy homer like yourself.

 

 

I think DMac sets the record for most rep received from a one-word post. Jayrus had it coming, though.

 

[Jayrus 51]

It's not irrelevant. The question posed was who had the best season, not who was the best QB. How can you logically tell me anyone other than the guy still playing is having the best season?

[Piggly Wiggly 960]

It's not irrelevant. The question posed was who had the best season, not who was the best QB. How can you logically tell me anyone other than the guy still playing is having the best season?

Don't be stupid.

[Dutch 874]

It's not irrelevant. The question posed was who had the best season, not who was the best QB. How can you logically tell me anyone other than the guy still playing is having the best season?

 

 

Because QBs don't play defense or special teams.

[Jayrus 51]

Because QBs don't play defense or special teams.

 

And yet somehow RG3 and Luck get sole credit when their teams win. Which is it?

[OSUViking 505]

This. Everyone keeps raising the bar for RW, and every time he clears it. Kid is a playmaker, mature, and very head strong. Unflappable.

 

I read this as "unfappable". While I personally wouldn't fap to Russell Wilson, I'm sure there are a lot of Seattle fans who would disagree with you.

[Dutch 874]

And yet somehow RG3 and Luck get sole credit when their teams win. Which is it?

 

Who said that RG3 and Luck gets sole credit for their victories??? Not even going to entertain that random insinuation.

 

I think Luck was better then all 3 rookie QBs and here's why.

 

 

When you look at the numbers, it's easy to put Luck at the bottom of the barrel. Put in all actuality, Luck had WAY less to work with; hence him being picked 1st overall in the draft.

 

You look at RG3's situation, he had a STELLAR running game having the #1 ranked rushing attack in the league. Alfred Morris was the 2nd leading rusher with 1,613 yards as a ROOKIE which is simply amazing and had the 3rd most attempts in the league. That was a HUGE reason for their success accompanied by RG3's god given talents. The Redskins also made some great FA moves adding Pierre Garcon and Josh Morgan to their receiving core to tag along with Santana Moss. While none of them are super stars, they are all serviceable play makers.

 

You look at Russell Wilson's situation, he has arguably a top 5 RB pounding the bricks down defenses legs. Russell Wilson was also fortunate having a running game; the 3rd ranked rushing attack at his disposal which is a rookie QB's best friend. The running game opens up everything on offense. Lynch was a huge part of the Seahawks success on offense. Wilson played lights out as well making great plays and showing resilience orchestrating long drives in must win games. Don't forget that Russell heavily benefited from having the best defense in the league being #1 in least points allowed. They kept the game close for him. A top rated defense and a running game... yeah.

 

Now for Luck, he didn't have the luxury of a 1,500 RB or a stellar defense (Wilson). Luck was the sole focal point of his offense and had way more pressure on him then RG3 and Wilson on taking that franchise QB role. His numbers aren't as pretty as RG3 or Wilson. He was tied for the most interceptions (18) in the league tied with Drew Brees as to where RG3 only have 5 ints and Wilson 10. His completion percentage is about 10% lower then RG3 and Wilson but Luck threw 234 more times then RG3 and Wilson! Luck attempted 627 throws which was 5TH most in the NFL and he's a ROOKIE! You are going to get more mistakes / turnovers when your rookie QB is asked to carry a team the way Luck had to; the life of an 1st overall. Luck also was 7th in the league in yards with over 4,300 yards breaking the nfl record for most yards by a rookie QB. Because of the pass happy offense, he also took more of a beating then RG3 and Wilson; 4th most sacked QB in the league being sacked 41 times. Luck had to win through his arm without the luxuries that RG3 and Wilson was fortunate to have. With that said, Luck had four 4th quarter come backs and seven game winning drives through his arm. Imo, Luck did more with less compared to RG3 and Wilson. From worst team in the league to a play off team. Luck had to embrace the role of a franchise QB at a much harder level then RG3 or Wilson did. He carried his team.

 

Saying that Wilson had the best season because he is the only rookie QB still in the play off shows your football ignorance. Give me Luck over RG3 and Wilson any day.

 

With all that said, RG3 is still going to win Offensive Rookie of the Year though.

Edited January 9, 2013 by dutchff7

[Jayrus 51]

Who said that RG3 and Luck gets sole credit for their victories??? Not even going to entertain that random insinuation.

 

I think Luck was better then all 3 rookie QBs and here's why.

 

 

When you look at the numbers, it's easy to put Luck at the bottom of the barrel. Put in all actuality, Luck had WAY less to work with; hence him being picked 1st overall in the draft.

 

You look at RG3's situation, he had a STELLAR running game having the #1 ranked rushing attack in the league. Alfred Morris was the 2nd leading rusher with 1,613 yards as a ROOKIE which is simply amazing and had the 3rd most attempts in the league. That was a HUGE reason for their success accompanied by RG3's god given talents. The Redskins also made some great FA moves adding Pierre Garcon and Josh Morgan to their receiving core to tag along with Santana Moss. While none of them are super stars, they are all serviceable play makers.

 

You look at Russell Wilson's situation, he has arguably a top 5 RB pounding the bricks down defenses legs. Russell Wilson was also fortunate having a running game; the 3rd ranked rushing attack at his disposal which is a rookie QB's best friend. The running game opens up everything on offense. Lynch was a huge part of the Seahawks success on offense. Wilson played lights out as well making great plays and showing resilience orchestrating long drives in must win games. Don't forget that Russell heavily benefited from having the best defense in the league being #1 in least points allowed. They kept the game close for him. A top rated defense and a running game... yeah.

 

Now for Luck, he didn't have the luxury of a 1,500 RB or a stellar defense (Wilson). Luck was the sole focal point of his offense and had way more pressure on him then RG3 and Wilson on taking that franchise QB role. His numbers aren't as pretty as RG3 or Wilson. He was tied for the most interceptions (18) in the league tied with Drew Brees as to where RG3 only have 5 ints and Wilson 10. His completion percentage is about 10% lower then RG3 and Wilson but Luck threw 234 more times then RG3 and Wilson! Luck attempted 627 throws which was 5TH most in the NFL and he's a ROOKIE! You are going to get more mistakes / turnovers when your rookie QB is asked to carry a team the way Luck had to; the life of an 1st overall. Luck also was 7th in the league in yards with over 4,300 yards breaking the nfl record for most yards by a rookie QB. Because of the pass happy offense, he also took more of a beating then RG3 and Wilson; 4th most sacked QB in the league being sacked 41 times. Luck had to win through his arm without the luxuries that RG3 and Wilson was fortunate to have. With that said, Luck had four 4th quarter come backs and seven game winning drives through his arm. Imo, Luck did more with less compared to RG3 and Wilson. From worst team in the league to a play off team. Luck had to embrace the role of a franchise QB at a much harder level then RG3 or Wilson did. He carried his team.

 

Saying that Wilson had the best season because he is the only rookie QB still in the play off shows your football ignorance. Give me Luck over RG3 and Wilson any day.

 

With all that said, RG3 is still going to win Offensive Rookie of the Year though.

 

 

And this is exactly what I mean. You handwave all of Wilson's accomplishments because of the team he has around him saying QBs don't win games by themselves, and then you sit here and write a 5 paragraph essay ABOUT HOW ANDREW LUCK WINS GAMES ALL BY HIMSELF! So which one is it?

 

Look, I don't want to be unreasonable. I just can't see the logic behind "Luck threw more passes therefore all of his mistakes should be ignored."

Edited January 9, 2013 by Jayrus

[Dutch 874]

Wilson played lights out as well making great plays and showing resilience orchestrating long drives in must win games.

 

And this is exactly what I mean. You handwave all of Wilson's accomplishments because of the team he has around him saying QBs don't win games by themselves, and then you sit here and write a 5 paragraph essay ABOUT HOW ANDREW LUCK WINS GAMES ALL BY HIMSELF! So which one is it?

 

Who's downplaying Wilson's accomplishments? I'm just putting into perspective that Luck had a more difficult road because he didn't have all the luxuries that RG3 and Wilson had. His team relied on his arm more because he didn't have the luxury to lean on a top 5 rushing attack or a #1 defense. You tunnel vision pretty hard bro.

[oochymp 2,393]

Who's downplaying Wilson's accomplishments? I'm just putting into perspective that Luck had a more difficult road because he didn't have all the luxuries that RG3 and Wilson had. His team relied on his arm more because he didn't have the luxury to lean on a top 5 rushing attack or a #1 defense. You tunnel vision pretty hard bro.

it seems to me that your last post (the one Jayrus was responding to) went a little beyond putting it into perspective, I haven't watched enough of the Seahawks to fairly evaluate Wilson's supporting cast, but in terms of RG3's help you have to remember first of all that he was a huge part of the reason the Skins had a top rushing attack, not only because of his 800 rushing yards but because of the attention he took from the defense that helped open holes for Morris, as far as the receivers go, Reggie Wayne>Pierre Garcon, Donnie Avery>Josh Morgan (that one's close, I'll give you, but I give the slight edge to Avery) and TY Hilton>Santana Moss (at this point in Moss's career) yet you never mentioned that Colts receiving corps, and the Skins defense allowed the same number of points as the Colts, 24.2 per game and were worst in the league on 3d downs, allowing opponents to convert 44 percent of the time, the Colts were in the middle of the pack allowing a 38% completion rate, as I said I don't know the Seahawks that well, so I'll let someone else get more in depth there, but if you're going to give Luck credit based on his supporting cast you have to acknowledge that the Skins around RG3 aren't that much (if at all) better than the Colts around Luck

 

also, I loved this little gem hidden in your extremely long post:

Because of the pass happy offense, [Luck] also took more of a beating then RG3 and Wilson

running QBs always take more of a beating than pocket passers, RG3 ran the ball 120 times, Wilson 94, luck only took off 62 times, sure a lot of those ended with sliding or running out of bounds, but a lot of them also ended with the QB getting laid out, that discrepancy in carries more than makes up for Luck taking 8 more sacks (compared to Wilson) or 11 more (compared to RG3) in terms of taking a beating

Edited January 9, 2013 by oochymp

[Dutch 874]

it seems to me that your last post (the one Jayrus was responding to) went a little beyond putting it into perspective, I haven't watched enough of the Seahawks to fairly evaluate Wilson's supporting cast, but in terms of RG3's help you have to remember first of all that he was a huge part of the reason the Skins had a top rushing attack, not only because of his 800 rushing yards but because of the attention he took from the defense that helped open holes for Morris

 

This is true. I addressed this in a different post.

 

I completely agree with this. Alfred Morris is a great talent but there is no doubt that he is benefiting from the RG3 effect. When you have a dangerous mobile QB like RG3, it forces the defenses (mainly DE's) to always play the outside to possibly play the QB run; playing contain. This opens up lanes for the RB whenever defenses have to defend against a running QB. The Broncos were the best rushing team in the league last year because of Tim Tebows running ability. The Eagles were up there as well last year along with the Panthers. Running backs benefit from mobile QB greatly and when you have a talented RB to take advantage of the situation, the QB (offense and team) benefit from this as well. Trickle down effect.

 

In the same token, it helped out that Alfred Morris was able to take advantage of the situation and be as effective as he was; a 1600 yard rusher. Just because a team may have a mobile QB doesn't guarantee that their RB has a monster year, rush for 1600 yards be as effective and productive like A.M was. It began with RG3 but because A.M was able to take advantage of the situation, it was an extreme help to RG3 as well. A.M being as effective as he was and taking advantage of effect that a rushing QB has on defenses extremely helped regardless of RG3 being the X-factor. A.M put his talents to use and made plays running the ball and made life easier for RG3 as well. One hand washes the other in this type of situation regardless of where the vantage point begins.

 

as far as the receivers go, Reggie Wayne>Pierre Garcon, Donnie Avery>Josh Morgan (that one's close, I'll give you, but I give the slight edge to Avery) and TY Hilton>Santana Moss (at this point in Moss's career) yet you never mentioned that Colts receiving corps, and the Skins defense allowed the same number of points as the Colts, 24.2 per game and were worst in the league on 3d downs, allowing opponents to convert 44 percent of the time, the Colts were in the middle of the pack allowing a 38% completion rate, as I said I don't know the Seahawks that well, so I'll let someone else get more in depth there, but if you're going to give Luck credit based on his supporting cast you have to acknowledge that the Skins around RG3 aren't that much (if at all) better than the Colts around Luck

 

This is quite true. While the better receiving core can slightly sway in the Colts favor, it's no downplaying the effectiveness of having a running game along with a passing attack. Luck was one dimensional which is way easier to game plan for. RG3 had a running game to tag along with his passing attack which outweighs Luck and his passing attack with Reggie Wayne.

 

As far as the Redskins defense vs the Colts defense, there was no point in bringing this up because they both sucked almost equally. There is no debate there. That's why I only mentioned Russell Wilson's situation which having the #1 scoring defense undoubtedly yields a huge advantage / benefit.

 

also, I loved this little gem hidden in your extremely long post:

 

running QBs always take more of a beating than pocket passers, RG3 ran the ball 120 times, Wilson 94, luck only took off 62 times, sure a lot of those ended with sliding or running out of bounds, but a lot of them also ended with the QB getting laid out, that discrepancy in carries more than makes up for Luck taking 8 more sacks (compared to Wilson) or 11 more (compared to RG3) in terms of taking a beating

 

RG3 and Wilson are more gifted in the running department (don't get me wrong, Luck is mobile as well) and able to escape a lot of those would be sacks and hits as well. Luck not as gifted as RG3 or Wilson in eluding would be sacks / hits had to stay back in the pocket. When you think about it though, Luck did throw 234 more times then RG3 and Wilson and the sack differential isn't far off. So good point.

 

Imo, there is no downplaying the effectiveness and importance of a running game to a QB; especially a rookie QB regardless of how / why the RB is having success. At the end of the day, production is production and it works hand in hand. It makes life way easier being a two dimensional dual threat on offense then being one dimensional. Way harder to game plan against an effective running and passing attack which. Defenses can tunnel vision on a one dimensional attack which says a lot about Luck's success. Not even going to talk about the benefits / advantages of having the #1 scoring defense has on your team. No doubt Luck had a more difficult road then RG3 or Wilson. He had less to work with.

Edited January 9, 2013 by dutchff7

[RazorStar 4,025]

Reggie Wayne is a much bigger boon than any receiver Seattle or Washington had. TY Hilton had a strong rookie year as did Dwayne Allen. Donnie Avery has always been an incredibly talented receiver, he was first off the board in 2008, and aside from his drops played up to his talent level. Luck probably had more quality weapons than either guy, but his efficiency suffers greatly in comparison to Wilson or RG3. Part of that could be the offensive line, outside of Castonzo being a good run blocker, the Colts don't have much going for them in that department. Washington's line is much better in comparison, Tyler Polumbus is an absolute sieve, and kory Lichtensteiger is a penalty machine but Trent Williams, Will Montgomery and Chris Chester are all extremely talented players. Seattle has three joke offensive linemen playing at any given time. A great blocker but a penalty machine in Okung, and pro bowl center Max Unger, who pretty much earned his spot (I think only Sullivan had a better year).

 

Just looking at the eye test, Wilson hardly ever makes the throws that make you shake your head, Luck is one of those OH YES and then suddenly OH NO, and then OH BABY kind of guys.

[Dutch 874]

Reggie Wayne is a much bigger boon than any receiver Seattle or Washington had. TY Hilton had a strong rookie year as did Dwayne Allen. Donnie Avery has always been an incredibly talented receiver, he was first off the board in 2008, and aside from his drops played up to his talent level. Luck probably had more quality weapons than either guy, but his efficiency suffers greatly in comparison to Wilson or RG3. Part of that could be the offensive line, outside of Castonzo being a good run blocker, the Colts don't have much going for them in that department. Washington's line is much better in comparison, Tyler Polumbus is an absolute sieve, and kory Lichtensteiger is a penalty machine but Trent Williams, Will Montgomery and Chris Chester are all extremely talented players. Seattle has three joke offensive linemen playing at any given time. A great blocker but a penalty machine in Okung, and pro bowl center Max Unger, who pretty much earned his spot (I think only Sullivan had a better year).

 

Just looking at the eye test, Wilson hardly ever makes the throws that make you shake your head, Luck is one of those OH YES and then suddenly OH NO, and then OH BABY kind of guys.

 

True. Reggie Wayne is a 1st Ballot HoF and is still playing at a high level. None of those other receivers compare to him let along hold his jock strap. Luck's efficiency was definitely worse then RG3 and Wilson but he did throw 234 times and didn't have the luxury of a running game which takes a lot of pressure off the QB. A rookie QB throwing for 627 times, you are going to get a lot of those OH NO (lol) type plays. But the main thing imo is that he made a lot of those OH YES and OH BABY type plays when it mattered to win games being a one dimensional offense.

[Omerta+ 1,206]

I don't think Wayne si a first ballot HOF'er...anyway continue gents.

[RazorStar 4,025]

"For those wondering if Andrew Luck deserves serious consideration for the Rookie of the Year, it’s important to note how many of Luck’s close victories came against non-quality opponents. The 2012 Colts own an 8-2 record against non-quality opponents with seven one-possession wins. This includes three fourth-quarter comebacks and five game-winning drives.

 

Luck’s OROY counterparts also had their own struggles against non-quality opponents. Russell Wilson and the 2012 Seahawks lost four games to non-quality opponents, while Robert Griffin’s 2012 Redskins lost three games to non-quality opponents."

 

If it says anything about their playoff success, it's expected to be minimal. Doug Martin for OROTY!

 

<_>

[oochymp 2,393]

while we're talking about things the QBs had no control over, someone at ESPN crunched the numbers and put together the adjusted strength of schedule for each team this season (strength of schedule without games against the team, so for example Colts opponents were 113-133 overall, but 11 of those losses and 5 of those wins came against the Colts, so their adjusted strength of schedule was 108-122, or .45) one of ESPN's bloggers posted it here but for relevant teams the Colts adjusted strength of schedule of .45 was tied for the 28th strongest (or 3d weakest) the Redskins adjusted strength of schedule of .502 was 19th strongest (or 14th weakest) and the Seahawks adjusted strength of schedule of .517 was 12th strongest (or 20th weakest)

 

also, I want to clarify one point (SteVo's post in the CJ09 v AD12 thread brought this to mind) all three of these QBs (Luck, RG3, and Wilson) had incredible seasons, anyone (okay, aside from Patriots, Broncos, Packers, and Saints fans) would love to have any of the three on their team, and in a normal year each would be among the clearest cut ROYs ever, they just happened to all be rookies in the same year, so picking one of the three as having the best season is absurdly difficult (which is why I haven't actually said which of the three I think has had the best season )

Edited January 10, 2013 by oochymp

[Dutch 874]

while we're talking about things the QBs had no control over, someone at ESPN crunched the numbers and put together the adjusted strength of schedule for each team this season (strength of schedule without games against the team, so for example Colts opponents were 113-133 overall, but 11 of those losses and 5 of those wins came against the Colts, so their adjusted strength of schedule was 108-122, or .45) one of ESPN's bloggers posted it here but for relevant teams the Colts adjusted strength of schedule of .45 was tied for the 28th strongest (or 3d weakest) the Redskins adjusted strength of schedule of .502 was 19th strongest (or 14th weakest) and the Seahawks adjusted strength of schedule of .517 was 12th strongest (or 20th weakest)

 

also, I want to clarify one point (SteVo's post in the CJ09 v AD12 thread brought this to mind) all three of these QBs (Luck, RG3, and Wilson) had incredible seasons, anyone (okay, aside from Patriots, Broncos, Packers, and Saints fans) would love to have any of the three on their team, and in a normal year each would be among the clearest cut ROYs ever, they just happened to all be rookies in the same year, so picking one of the three as having the best season is absurdly difficult (which is why I haven't actually said which of the three I think has had the best season )

 

You talk about things QBs have no control over then bring up strength of schedule. Found that a little funny lol.

 

But in all fairness, all three rookie QBs had stellar seasons. I commend all of them and they all seem to have a bright future ahead of them. My post started all because of a random insinuation. Picking a clear cut winner is extremely difficult. I was just pointing out that imo Luck had a harder road simply because he had less to work with. The fact that he threw 627 times shows how much his team relied on him to win games and to be that franchise QB. But such is the life of a 1st overall pick I guess.

 

With that being said, like I previously noted, I believe RG3 wins ROTY. He electrified the league like no other. As for who had the better season, that's an extremely difficult question to answer and it hurts the brain. I would probably sway towards RG3 over the others. As for who's the better QB out of the 3, I'd take Luck. I guess my logic with Luck working with less and being relied on more is kind of linked with some peoples logic last year saying MJD was a top 1-2 back last year because he worked with less and his team relied heavily on him as well; being one dimensional and not having many other options.

[oochymp 2,393]

You talk about things QBs have no control over then bring up strength of schedule. Found that a little funny lol.

not sure why that's funny, it is something they have no control over, just like they have no control over who their teammates happen to be, and I made no commentary on what (if any) impact it had on their seasons (though if I were to say it'd be minimal at best) just putting it out there for the discussion

Edited January 10, 2013 by oochymp