Thunder trade James Harden to the Rockets

[Guest Phailadelphia]

I'm curious about the same thing, F4E. I've been researching it a little today but haven't found any clear answers. I imagine it has something to do with the progressive year-to-year nature of NBA contracts. Start small and end huge.

[Favre4Ever+ 4,476]

Ya.. I was trying to figure that out. I am sure they had a reason, I just haven't seen anything yet reporting as to what it was. If you see something, please post it here.

[Milla4Prez63 678]

The Rockets are supposedly going to sign Harden to an extension worth 78 million, the extension that OKC offered was worth 54 million. Why should have he taken that deal? There was no reason for him to take it, but the Thunder didn't want to pay him it so they just shipped him away ASAP.

[blotsfan 2,112]

He was offered $55.5 million out of a $60 million max contract. How is that a 20% pay cut?

The numbers I've seen were 54 million when they could offer 65. Actually 17% pay cut but still similar. And as far as tying up their cap space, you don't need cap space if you have a good core. Just ask Miami.

[Milla4Prez63 678]

Oh my god they might not turn a profit if they resigned Harden!!!

 

Isn't that the point of any business?

[Guest Phailadelphia]

The numbers I've seen were 54 million when they could offer 65. Actually 17% pay cut but still similar. And as far as tying up their cap space, you don't need cap space if you have a good core. Just ask Miami.

 

You saw wrong. They offered him 55.5 million. His max offer sheet would have been $60 million.

 

Miami's big 3 all took less than the max so they could keep Haslem. OKC has 2 guys on max contracts and Ibaka on a near-max contract. They also have Perkins on a 4-year deal that's not super cap friendly. Very different situation than Miami.

[BradyFan81 404]

If Harden was signed to a max contract they'd have $70 million committed to only five players, which is exactly what the salary cap will be starting in 2013. Add in the other 9 players on the roster and then factor in the insane luxury tax penalty for exceeding the cap and yeah, the organization would be incurring a huge loss.

So they incur a huge loss for a few years. Who cares? That's the price of being a contender. They've been making boatloads of money the past few years anyway. I seriously can't believe OKC fans are defending their front office on this. They just threw away their title shots.

Edited October 29, 2012 by BradyFan81

[BwareDWare94 723]

So they incur a huge loss for a few years. Who cares? That's the price of being a contender. They've been making boatloads of money the past few years anyway. I seriously can't believe OKC fans are defending their front office on this. They just threw away their title shots.

 

They did not throw away their title shots lol. Y'all are acting like James Harden made them tick. They still have KD and Russ, a player in Serge Ibaka who only gets better, and now they actually have more than a one man bench when it comes to dropping points.

 

This team will be better come late season than they were with James Harden. I firmly believe that.

[Milla4Prez63 678]

So they incur a huge loss for a few years. Who cares? That's the price of being a contender. They've been making boatloads of money the past few years anyway. I seriously can't believe OKC fans are defending their front office on this. They just threw away their title shots.

 

Why should ownership lose millions of dollars to win a trophy? I know they want to win it at all, but they are there to make a profit too. To fans, they don't care because they don't see the money being spent, but the people paying out cash won't risk a huge loss. There are some teams like the Lakers, Mavs or Heat who don't care, but just because they don't doesn't mean everyone else has to. The league shouldn't be set on that standard.

[Favre4Ever+ 4,476]

I don't really know anyone is mad in this thread... lol

 

The Thunder decided they couldn't pay him what he wanted and what other teams were willing to pay him. They did what they thought was the best, and they will continue to be a really good basketball team.

 

Harden on the other hand is a young and promising player who wanted to cash in just like 98.9% of the league. I see no harm there either.

 

Both sides did what they had to do. Both sides will continue do do what they do best.

[Guest Phailadelphia]

So they incur a huge loss for a few years. Who cares? That's the price of being a contender. They've been making boatloads of money the past few years anyway. I seriously can't believe OKC fans are defending their front office on this. They just threw away their title shots.

 

Price of being a contender? Dude, the wealthiest team in the league, the Lakers, aren't even willing to dip into the luxury tax. They're going to dump that roster after this season and rebuild with Dwight as the franchise player because even they aren't willing to dip into those penalties. Mark Cuban, the guy who will spend everything to win, dumped his championship roster because of the new luxury tax rules. Check the losses for going past the salary cap:

 

For example:

A team with a team salary $12 million over the tax level in 2011-12 pays a tax of $12 million.

A team with a team salary $12 million over the tax level in 2013-14 pays a tax of $21.25 million (the incremental maximum of $7.5 million for $0 to $4,999,999, plus the incremental maximum of $8.75 million for $5 million to $9,999,999, plus $2 million times the incremental rate of $2.50 for $10 million to $14,999,999).

A team with a team salary $4 million over the tax level in 2015-16 pays a tax of $10 million ($4 million times the repeater rate of $2.50 for $0 to $4,999,999) if they also were taxpayers in three of the previous four seasons, or pays a tax of $6 million ($4 million times the non-repeater rate of $1.50 for $0 to $4,999,999) if they were not taxpayers in at least three of the previous four seasons.

[56AceInDaPlace 110]

They did not throw away their title shots lol. Y'all are acting like James Harden made them tick. They still have KD and Russ, a player in Serge Ibaka who only gets better, and now they actually have more than a one man bench when it comes to dropping points.

 

This team will be better come late season than they were with James Harden. I firmly believe that.

 

Harden DID make em tick... When he runs the offense they are much more dangerous and efficent. Harden PG like skills and passing made him a threat. The Thunder basically traded for a good sixth man who can score in K Martin. However Harden plays some pesky D and that will be missed. Martin is a scorer thats it. He can get hot and drop 30 here and there. Lamb i like him. When hes playing a role player he plays it well. Didnt like them trading Cook though. Man can shoot the 3. This can either help em out big time on offense or hurt bad. Well see. I feel better about beating OKC now though.

[blotsfan 2,112]

They did not throw away their title shots lol. Y'all are acting like James Harden made them tick. They still have KD and Russ, a player in Serge Ibaka who only gets better, and now they actually have more than a one man bench when it comes to dropping points.

 

This team will be better come late season than they were with James Harden. I firmly believe that.

So, who is their bench now? Seems to me the only notable player is Kevin Martin, who isn't as good as harden.

[Guest Phailadelphia]

Per Daily Thunder, signing Harden to a $60 mill max contract would have cost the team $90 mil over the life of the contract due to luxury tax penalties. There's exactly why he was traded.

 

So, who is their bench now? Seems to me the only notable player is Kevin Martin, who isn't as good as harden.

 

Eric Maynor is back and looks fantastic. Perry Jones III looked great in preseason for a rookie, and Jeremy Lamb could even see some time. They still have an above average bench.

 

Edit: And to be honest, benches are overrated come playoff time anyway, where guys like KD, Westbrook, etc are going to play ~41-43 minutes per game.

Edited October 29, 2012 by Phailadelphia

[Zack_of_Steel+ 3,014]

So, who is their bench now? Seems to me the only notable player is Kevin Martin, who isn't as good as harden.

 

Like Phail said, they are getting Maynor back who is one of the best backup PGs in the league. Outside of Harden hey lost Cook who only shot 3's and Aldridge and Hayward who were still developing and didn't see a lot of time anyway. Lamb has a ton of potential and they have Perry Jones III who many considered the steal of the draft.

[blotsfan 2,112]

Simmons says it better than I can.

 

http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/8573213/the-harden-disaster

[Guest Phailadelphia]

I love how everyone is writing OKC off after losing one player, even if he was a really good one. Truth is, they had 4 max contract worthy players on their roster. Now it's only 3. Half the teams in this league still don't even have ONE player of that caliber. The notion that they've removed themselves from contention is laughable, especially considering the humongous strides KD, Westbrook, Ibaka, and Scottie Brooks have taken each year in their respective developments and there's no reason to believe they won't all have improved over the offseason. Even without Harden, the Thunder will be a better team this year than they were last year.

 

And if Ibaka's improvement in the Olympics and in the preseason thus far is any indication, he might be better than Harden now.

[BradyFan81 404]

No way Ibaka is a max contract player. Not even close.

 

And yes, losing a top 20 player is a huge deal. They have other great players but that's why what they did is so bad. They cared more about money than winning a championship. They were so fortunate to get that trio and they just threw it away.

 

And you guys have no shot of beating LA now, let alone Miami.

Edited October 30, 2012 by BradyFan81

[Guest Phailadelphia]

No way Ibaka is a max contract player. Not even close.

 

And yes, losing a top 20 player is a huge deal. They have other great players but that's why what they did is so bad. They cared more about money than winning a championship. They were so fortunate to get that trio and they just threw it away.

 

And you guys have no shot of beating LA now, let alone Miami.

 

How many players in the NBA have a legit 17-23 ft jump shot and average over 2 blocks per game? The answer is no one but Ibaka. He's a max player.

[Milla4Prez63 678]

Ibaka SHOULDN'T be a max player. But in today's NBA, he is.

[BwareDWare94 723]

Kobe, Lebron, Durant, Howard

 

I don't really view anybody else as worth max dollars. Not Carmelo. Not DWade. Not Rondo or DWill or DRose. Only those four.

[Milla4Prez63 678]

Kobe, Lebron, Durant, Howard

 

I don't really view anybody else as worth max dollars. Not Carmelo. Not DWade. Not Rondo or DWill or DRose. Only those four.

 

I don't think Kobe is even worth the max at his age. But in today's NBA, the max gets thrown around too quickly. Eric Gordon just got a max deal, Rashard Lewis got one back in the day lol.

[56AceInDaPlace 110]

GET THE FUCK OUT. Ibaka a MAX PLAYER? No fucking way. I like the guy and hes a damn good defender but no way is he worth the max. Homerism as fuck to say that. Hes worth mid level money. He cant score that well on offense. If hd improved his offense then yes. Fuck the "todays NBA standard", its not the standard its stupidness. Hibbert isnt even worth it and i think he makes a bigger impact for the Pacers then Ibaka does for the Thunder. Thats like me saying Chris Kamen is worth the max. No way. Max should be for STARS. Not solid or doing good because of a system player. Harden, BW and KD are the only ones who deserved the Max.

 

Harden is a big loss. I dont fear OKC no more now. Martin is a scorer no doubt but the man dont play D for shit. Harden also has PG like skills to run the floor. Martin doesnt. Houston gets the win in this trade.

[Guest Phailadelphia]

I'm a homer because I say he's a max player? Fuck outta here. If Roy fucking Hibbert is a max player, then Serge Ibaka is a max player. I guarantee you 9 out of 10 GMs would take him over Hibbert.

 

Edit: Still think the Lakers are favorites to beat OKC? I've played in pick-up games with more offensive flow than those guys play with.

Edited November 1, 2012 by Phailadelphia

[Bucman 891]

Harden looked damn good tonight.