Top 10 CB's list

[Dutch 874]

Pretty sure I said make the CB list but here we go.

 

 

1. Darelle Revis- Until I've seen that he's declined any after his injury, he's still #1. The thought of what if he came back better similar to A.P... /shivers.

 

2. Richard Sherman

 

3. Charles Tillman

 

4. Ladarius Webb

 

5. Joe Haden

 

6. Antonio Cromartie

 

7. Jonathan Joseph

 

8. Patrick Peterson

 

9. Ike Taylor

 

10. Tim Jennings

 

Honorable Mention: Brandon Carr, Casey Hayward

 

Redoing my list. Trying to construct my list if I had to choose one guy for 1 year.

 

1. Darelle Revis

 

2. Richard Sherman

 

3. Ladarius Webb- Talking about the top two corners, keep forgetting about Webb because he was hurt last year. Wouldn't be surprised if he were to be in the top CB talks this coming season.

 

4. Joe Haden

 

5. Antonio Cromartie

 

6. Champ Bailey- Judged very harshly for that play off game but outside of that had another great year.

 

7. Asante Samuel- I made fun of Asante earlier in this thread, but he doesn't allow a lot of plays. He's still a ball hawk and one of the better off coverage zone corners in the league. Still can't tackle worth a god dam though.

 

8. Ike Taylor

 

9. Patrick Peterson is an amazing athletic talent; very gifted. If he cleans up a few technical issues, he can be a top CB in the league easy. He had a lot of pics but also allowed a lot of plays.

 

10. Charles Tillman

 

Honorable Mention: Brandon Flowers, Brandon Carr, Cortland Finnegan- a lot of people may not like him but he's solid.

Edited May 27, 2013 by dutchff7

[Lockdnram85 3]

Janoris jenkins will be top 10 after this season

[beastofmideast 4]

1) Richard Sherman - I'm predicting this season, with Revis beginning to slow down and Sherman still very young, the switch is made. That said, if you asked me during last season, it would definitely be Revis, and it still might be if Sherman doesnt progress to my expectations.

2) Darelle Revis - Yeah I just said he was falling off and whatever, but he is still the shutdown corner of the generation. At this point its really a toss up between the top 2 unless Revis ages really well and has almost no regression from the injury, in which case Revis would still be at the top.

3) Charles Tillman - This is basically a toss up between him and Webby imo, but considering Webb is coming off injury I have to give it to the poster boy for underrated corners.

4) Lardarius Webb - This dude is straight shutdown status. Even though he didnt make the Pro Bowl, not too many people realize just how good Webb was two years ago.

5) Patrick Peterson - If he wasnt on the Cardinals he would be higher on everyone's list. This dude can ball and is only going to get better.

6) Joe Haden - Basically the same arguement but not to the same extent as Peterson

7) Johnathan Joseph - One of the most solid corners in the league. Even back in his Cincy days, he is just a very reliable corner.

8) Brandon Flowers - Another underrated corner who would be ranked higher on a better team. I've always thought Flowers was better than Carr, and I stand by that.

9) Carlos Rodgers - Although he's never had the best hands, this dude is just really, really good at covering, and there isnt much more you can ask than that.

10) Brandon Carr/ Cortland Finnegan - I couldn't choose between these two, but both are deserving of top 10 status, and both would have it if there werent so many good corners in the league.

 

Side Note- Anyone who thinks Winfield is top 10 is trippin, there is a reason the Vikes let him go, although I still think he is a solid player and a great run defender. Same thing with Champ for everyone that saw Torrye Smith abuse him last year.

Edited May 27, 2013 by beastofmideast

[Thanatos 2,847]

Jeez, you have a tendency to overrate NFL front offices.

 

The fact that the Vikes let him go has no bearing on his actual ranking.

[NaTaS+ 958]

If Joe Haden and Ike Taylor are not on your top 10 list, then you fail. Taylor is one of the most underrated CBs in the NFL. Glad most of you recognized that.

[beastofmideast 4]

Jeez, you have a tendency to overrate NFL front offices.

 

The fact that the Vikes let him go has no bearing on his actual ranking.

 

Umm, yes it does. No team would let go of a top 10 corner, especially when that is a position of need, for such a small contract

 

If he was asking for 80 million, I'd agree. He wasn't, and there is also the fact that he generated no buzz on the market. Top 10 Corners tend to do that.

[beastofmideast 4]

If Joe Haden and Ike Taylor are not on your top 10 list, then you fail. Taylor is one of the most underrated CBs in the NFL. Glad most of you recognized that.

 

I agree with Taylor being underrated, but just because he is the 11th or 12th guy on some lists doesnt make the list illegitimate. Plus, he is 33 now. If he was 28 it'd be a different story.

Edited May 27, 2013 by beastofmideast

[NaTaS+ 958]

I agree with Taylor being underrated, but just because he is the 11th or 12th guy on some lists doesnt make the illegitimate. Plus, he is 33 now. If he was 28 it'd be a different story.

 

His age has nothing to do with his level of play. He's playing like a top 10 CB right now.

[beastofmideast 4]

His age has nothing to do with his level of play. He's playing like a top 10 CB right now.

 

I'm basically saying while he's up there and in the discussion I wouldn't put him there (as evidenced by my list). In his prime, I would say he was, though.

 

The point I am trying to make is that there is no way he is towards the top of the list, and being 2 spots away from having him in the top 10 does not discount a list for a league with about 17 corners that could be called top 10 (if not more).

[Crash 105]

I keep seeing Patrick Peterson brought up in the top 10 list while hes not even the top cb in his draft, or the second best cb in his draft. Dudes over rated

[NY Diehard 26]

I keep seeing Patrick Peterson brought up in the top 10 list while hes not even the top cb in his draft, or the second best cb in his draft. Dudes over rated

 

Who, other than Richard Sherman, is better than him in his draft class? And why would that matter?

 

If Tom Brady, Aaron Rodgers, and Peyton Manning were all in the same draft class would you say that one of them doesn't belong in the top 10 because he isn't the best or 2nd best player at his position in his draft class?

[Crash 105]

Who, other than Richard Sherman, is better than him in his draft class? And why would that matter?

 

If Tom Brady, Aaron Rodgers, and Peyton Manning were all in the same draft class would you say that one of them doesn't belong in the top 10 because he isn't the best or 2nd best player at his position in his draft class?

Chris Harris, the cb for Denver is the second best cb in that draft and graded out as the 5th best cb in the league and should be ranked higher then a lot of Corners that people are talking about because he plays across from champ

[SolomonGrundy 10]

Bailey gets a lot of heat for the Baltimore game, but it's funny when people say he's lost a step because of that game. Smith only got by him when Champ missed the jam at the line. The 2nd TD, Champ was right there step for step in perfect position and it really should have been an INT. But for whatever reason he never went up for the ball and Smith did.

[housemd 338]

Chris Harris, the cb for Denver is the second best cb in that draft and graded out as the 5th best cb in the league and should be ranked higher then a lot of Corners that people are talking about because he plays across from champ

Graded out by who?

[Crash 105]

Graded out by who?

PFF

[Bay 2,003]

PFF is god guys. Whatever PFF says goes.

[BwareDWare94 723]

1. Charles Tillman--I've never seen him get burned, and he's a turnover waiting to happen. So underrated.

 

2. Richard Sherman--One of the few mouths to ever back up its talking. This is a very good young corner.

 

3. Darelle Revis--I've only dropped him because I don't expect him to be the same, but if he is, he'll be the unanimous #1 corner by mid season, I'm sure.

 

4. Asante Samuel--He's been shut down for a couple of years now, and the amount of plays that he's gotten beaten on have really dropped.

 

5. Joe Haden--What can you say about this guy? He's just plain good.

 

6. Lardarius Webb--Also coming off injury, but two in a row. I need to see him return to form or he'll fall further.

 

7. Ike Taylor--33 or not, he still plays ball. Easily one of my favorite Steelers.

 

8. Champ Bailey--Old as he is, he still can play ball. You can't fault him for some of the catches Torrey Smith made on him in the playoff game, because Flacco placed them perfectly and Smith made ridiculous plays.

 

9. Antonio Cromartie--Played very well in Revis' absence. Let's see what he can do as the #1 corner for NYJ.

 

10. Brandon Flowers--Him and Carr is a toss up, imo. I'll give Flowers the nod because Carr really struggled at times last year

 

Honorable: Winfield, Grimes, Carr, Heyward, Jenkins, Claiborne

 

I know I'm forgetting somebody, but here's my updated list.

Edited May 28, 2013 by BwareDWare94

[Thanatos 2,847]

Umm, yes it does. No team would let go of a top 10 corner, especially when that is a position of need, for such a small contract

 

If he was asking for 80 million, I'd agree. He wasn't, and there is also the fact that he generated no buzz on the market. Top 10 Corners tend to do that.

 

Nope. What it means is that the Vikings front office does not think he's a top-10 corner. That does not mean that he actually is not a top-10 corner. Just because an NFL front office thinks something, is not proof positive that that is actually the case, despite what you have claimed three times now.

[Favre4Ever+ 4,476]

Perspective is a beautiful thing.

 

The Vikings can't cover anybody. So I can understand why they would want to part with a talented slot corner type of guy like Winfield. They need to invest in their starters before they can afford a luxury like that.

 

The Seahawks on the other hand... Darn.

Edited May 28, 2013 by Favre4Ever

[RANGA+ 1,210]

Perspective is a beautiful thing.

 

 

 

[beastofmideast 4]

Nope. What it means is that the Vikings front office does not think he's a top-10 corner. That does not mean that he actually is not a top-10 corner. Just because an NFL front office thinks something, is not proof positive that that is actually the case, despite what you have claimed three times now.

 

1) Its not just the Vikings front office, its the multitude of teams that generated no interest

2) Although you are right in that it is not definitive, its simply supports my case. For example, if I was to say Chad Johnson or TO were not top 10 WRs, I would point to the lack of interested teams, on top of other things, to support my point

3) He did not play up to the standards of a top 10 corner, not even close.

4) Just because you think something is not proof that it is the case, and while mine reference to the FO's is similar, my opinion is backed by paid professionals who manage the business and yours is backed by a few random forum posters.

 

If you laid out a logical arguement for why he is a top 10 CB, and it was a well thought out, valid arguement, that would make sense. Even if I disagreed I would support your right to opinion and the fact that you made a compelling arguement,

BUT,

all you've done is say I am wrong without any support on the matter, and that is simply trollish.

 

If you are going to respond, rather than just repeating what you've been saying, please come up with a response and a reason for your opinion. Even if the reason isnt sufficient, at least it is something. I'm pretty over you calling my posts wrong and illogical without providing solid reasoning (or in some cases, no reasoning at all) on why you believe that to be the case.

 

I can deal with people I disagree with or who are simply not football intelligent, but not with people who simply type things without any sort of support (as already discussed, I was focusing on Thanatos' posts, and thats my bad, but really, 3 downvotes for not thinking Winfield is a top 10 CB and referencing professional opinon?).

Edited May 28, 2013 by beastofmideast

[Thanatos 2,847]

There was already an argument in here for why Winfield was a top-10 corner, and your response was to claim that since the Vikings FO didn't keep him, he wasn't a top-10 corner.

 

I like having debates with people who know their football stuff, but not people who are new, come into a forum, ignore the arguments that have already been put forward for a position, and proceed to use something that is entirely irrelevant as evidence of their own position.

 

Sean and Favre already covered why Winfield is a great corner.

 

For those of you who don't have Antoine Winfield in your top ten here's a little food for thought. Winfield was whistled for 2 penalties all year. Gave up 0 TD's. Averaged 9.6 yards per reception, and longest pass play he allowed was 41 yards and of his 87 tackles he missed only 8. Just ask Michael Vick how good of a blitzer he is.

 

Discounting a corner because he has the ability to play near the line, stuff the run, and come after QBs is INSANE. Should JJ Watt get left of said lists because he should be getting 30 sacks instead of 20 and 20 batted passes? Do we take away QBs like Kaepernick, RGII, and co because they break the pocket and run from time to time and don't just throw the football?

 

Antoine Winfield has been, is, and may very well continue to be one of the best all around defensive players in the league.

 

You come out and tell me he can't cover, or gets beat over and over.... Even though you would be wrong, at least you are trying to discredit him for something he (only an example, of course) can't do.

 

Instead, you are telling me to take him off my list because he is a more capable all around player and corner than anyone else on said list.

 

Discrediting players because they are not a one trick pony or because they are more capable is a disservice to Winfield, players like him, and to the game itself.

 

You act like the plays the slot exclusively. If he was like everybody else and was afraid to make tackles behind the LoS, he would be on the outside more. Very few players in the league can do what he does, and none do it as consistently.

 

[Winfield] hasn't given up a TD in THREE YEARS. I don't care if he is covering my fat ass. That is insane.

 

Give credit where it's due.

Edited May 28, 2013 by Thanatos19

[Dutch 874]

 

If you laid out a logical arguement for why he is a top 10 CB, and it was a well thought out, valid arguement, that would make sense. Even if I disagreed I would support your right to opinion and the fact that you made a compelling arguement,

BUT,

all you've done is say I am wrong without any support on the matter, and that is simply trollish.

 

If you are going to respond, rather than just repeating what you've been saying, please come up with a response and a reason for your opinion. Even if the reason isnt sufficient, at least it is something. I'm pretty over you calling my posts wrong and illogical without providing solid reasoning (or in some cases, no reasoning at all) on why you believe that to be the case.

 

I can deal with people I disagree with or who are simply not football intelligent, but not with people who simply type things without any sort of support.

 

People have laid out logical rebuttals / counter arguments against your stances (even in other threads) but you ignore logic and respond with generalities and conjectures as you openly admitted. You're talking down to others in a condescending tone and have been trying to sound intelligent but have been producing weak and illogical arguments. Tone it down a bit brah. Being an overly aggressive debater doesn't make for a strong debate.

Edited May 28, 2013 by dutchff7

[beastofmideast 4]

There was already an argument in here for why Winfield was a top-10 corner, and your response was to claim that since the Vikings FO didn't keep him, he wasn't a top-10 corner.

 

I like having debates with people who know their football stuff, but not people who are new, come into a forum, ignore the arguments that have already been put forward for a position, and proceed to use something that is entirely irrelevant as evidence of their own position.

 

Sean and Favre already covered why Winfield is a great corner.

 

Okay, thats fine. Those are all valid reasons that make sense, although I dont agree with the end result, and are good arguements. However, it's not as if you referenced their posts in your arguement or even said, as previously stated, or something of the sort. And while those arguements are fine and put to rest my point about you not laying forth any points, I still don't understand how a lack of interested teams doesnt give my arguement some support.

 

There was not much interest in Winfield. I'm simply saying that was related to the fact that teams did not view him as an elite corner. I've already conceded it is not definitive proof, does the opinion of the professional talent evaluators in the league really count for nothing? Of course, the fact that he is old has something to do with it, but if any team thought he was a top 10 talent they would have pounced on him.

 

While it is also an interesting stat that he apparently hasnt given up a TD in 3 years, I for one have never been a person that only looks at stats. If I was, that would mean Romo is the 4th best QB in the league, based on career QB rating, and that is simply false. Clearly it took some skill to achieve, but that stat alone is not proof he is a top 10 corner. While I can respect his ferocity in the run game, he doesnt have the cover ability of any other corner that have been listed.

[beastofmideast 4]

People have laid out logical rebuttals / counter arguments against your stances (even in other threads) but you ignore logic and respond with generalities and conjectures as you openly admitted. You're talking down to others in a condescending tone and have been trying to sound intelligent but have been producing weak and illogical arguments. Tone it down a bit brah. Being an overly aggressive debater doesn't make for a strong debate.

 

That is true, but I was focussing on Thanatos in my rebuttals, although I can understand the logic behind your reasoning and I admit I shoulder some of the blame (assuming you are referencing Thanatos point).

 

Also, I have not been condescending, in fact people have openly insulted me and my arguements. Perhaps it may have came off that way, but many times it is hard to convey tone in text like this.

 

Plus, as I have said in the last response, everything in football comes down to conjecture. It is all predicting what will happen next season and taking players from different systems playing in different environments against different opponents with different coaching staffs, its not as if there is a surefire algorithm to rank players and their abilities, which is what makes football debates interesting, because two people can be right from different perspectives, since there is no definitive awnsers (despite the obvious arguements, like how Sanchez is not the best QB in league history).

 

 

Also, to you Thanatos, referencing your point to me being new, everyone here started with 1 post, anybody feeling superior for a post count should really check themselves. Its not as if its my first time on a forum, just on this forum.

Edited May 28, 2013 by beastofmideast