Dual-threat QBs to pay the price this season?

[Vin+ 3,121]

According to the Los Angeles Times, there's a "belief among many people in NFL circles" that dual-threat quarterbacks will "pay the price" this season in read-option offenses.

 

The belief is that with a full offseason to prepare for offenses that "last year seemed exotic," NFL defenses are "not going to be as tentative and under-prepared." Co-chairman of the NFL safety committee John Madden believes defenses will respond by "going after the quarterback ... that's going to be their answer." "They're just going to go after him whether he pitches or not," added Madden. "They're not going to be caught on their heels this year."

 

Source: Los Angeles Times

[the Lions fan 19]

QBs running with the ball will get tackled? This will revolutionize the sport.

 

Running the ball regardless of position comes with an inherent increased injury factor. Run with QB more, QB gets injured more.

 

There's a reason the option is catching on in the NFL and there's a reason strong pass rushes help you win games. The two obviously don't cancel eachother out. A year of preparation didn't kill the Wildcat, its strive for ingenuity led to this.

 

Also, Madden didn't say football once. Anybody else find that disturbing?

[KempBolt 498]

The option functions by leaving a defender unblocked, which the QB reads and decides whether to keep the ball or hand it off based on that read. What that blurb is saying is that coaches are going to coach those unblocked defenders to go right for the QB and hit him every time. No hesitation trying to see if the hand off will occur.

 

That strategy will certainly yield a few nice gains for the running backs, but offenses won't be able to keep running that type of offense if their quarterbacks are taking unblocked shots almost every time. They'll get hurt and you just can't put your QB in the line of fire like that.

 

So no, it doesn't just mean that running QB's will be tackled. If you want to see an example, reference the 2011 Patriots/Broncos game. This is what they did to Tebow.

[RANGA+ 1,210]

Lol he acts like "dual-threat" QBs were a thing invented last season. They've been around for ages and have always caused problems. And they will continue to do so, as long as they are pass first QBs. Madden hasn't made a real-world relevant comment in over a decade. He needs to GTFO.

[KempBolt 498]

Lol he acts like "dual-threat" QBs were a thing invented last season. They've been around for ages and have always caused problems. And they will continue to do so, as long as they are pass first QBs. Madden hasn't made a real-world relevant comment in over a decade. He needs to GTFO.

 

Yeah. Pass first guys who can and do run when the defense breaks down are great and will always be a part of the game. It's the zone read, designed run stuff that I question. I think it will end up exposing the most important player on the team to too many big hits.

 

Kaep, RGIII, Wilson, and Newton should be fine because they can pass. My bet is that they'll convert their games to be more traditional passers who will just make you pay for leaving the field open in front of them. Kind of like Rodgers, but better runners and probably lesser passers.

[theMileHighGuy 656]

if you're as effective a passer as you are a runner, it doesn't really matter what defenses know. These guys will be fine as long as they can maintain the balance.

[KempBolt 498]

if you're as effective a passer as you are a runner, it doesn't really matter what defenses know. These guys will be fine as long as they can maintain the balance.

 

Yes, if they choose their spots to run. If they run often by design with the zone read, they will not be fine IMO.

[Attyla the Hawk 197]

Yeah. Pass first guys who can and do run when the defense breaks down are great and will always be a part of the game. It's the zone read, designed run stuff that I question. I think it will end up exposing the most important player on the team to too many big hits.

 

 

Not all zone read QBs are the same.

 

RG3 just flat out doesn't protect himself. Kaep and Wilson are much better at getting out of bounds. Wilson in particular is a magician at really avoiding contact. Even when he does get hit, he rarely if ever gets a square hit. And he is extremely good at getting down before contact arrives. Even to the point of not going for the sticks where defenders seek to intersect him.

 

The zone read, when executed by a passing QB is deadly. At least in the respect to Kaepernick and Wilson, they are very disciplined in their approach to the option. They understand that it's a means to keep defenses honest, not a means to necessarily create explosive plays for the QB themselves. They both do a great job of giving away the last few yards if it means avoiding a hit. Kaep is better at getting around the corner free and getting big chunks of yards relatively safely. Wilson is better at slithering to the side of defenders and evading within confined space. Both are very good at getting to free space and getting out of bounds cleanly.

 

It's not a fad in the sense that the wildcat was a fad. Because the wildcat was a one dimensional run play that is easy to diagnose by virtue of the formation and cheat accordingly. The read option (or more appropriately the pistol) is a formation that is incredibly balanced and allows the QB the ability to call a play that gives the offense a personnel/numbers advantage dynamically. So long as the QB doesn't try to get the hard yards when they run, the play is relatively safe. Safer than simply dropping back to pass from the pocket really. Because they have the ability to see when the impact will happen and can slide to avoid the hit with relative ease. The only way it becomes dangerous is when a QB tries to get greedy and sacrifice the body for the last couple yards. This is where RG3 consistently failed as a zone read QB and it'll imperil his career until he can mentally be satisfied by sliding and avoiding punishment. Griffin appears to be intelligent enough to understand this, but I can't be certain if it's in his nature to accept less in the course of a run.

 

EDIT:

 

About a month ago, we had a Redskins fan post a compilation of RG3's rushing attempts for 2012. He was curious if we could do the same for Wilson to get a comparison. Below are the videos of each QB's rushing attempts (scrambles and designed runs). If you can take the time, the contrast is pretty evident in the difference in styles. RG3 really doesn't protect himself very well at all and it's not accurate to link the read option dangers to his particular style.

 

RG3:

 

http://youtu.be/F2UcgGAZNeo

 

 

Wilson:

 

Edited August 24, 2013 by Attyla the Hawk

[CampinWithaMissingPerson 2,025]

I'm saying they won't be "paying the price" this season and the coaches feeling themselves saying they're gonna end it are stuck in the 90s.

[DonovanMcnabb for H.O.F 2,241]

I'm saying they won't be "paying the price" this season and the coaches feeling themselves saying they're gonna end it are stuck in the 90s.

 

Yea I was just coming on here to say the same thing... Lol.

[KempBolt 498]

You guys are missing the point though. It's not about hitting the QB before he gets down or out of bounds. It's about having that unblocked defender hit him every time in the backfield, regardless of whether or not he hands off. Basically a free shot at him. To this point that defender has usually hesitated in trying to see where the ball is going. Now it sounds like they're being coached to smear the QB in the backfield regardless. Basically accept whatever yards the RB then picks up off the hand off in the interest of blasting the signal caller.

[NaTaS+ 958]

I feel like he made this comment in the 70's. Does he know it's 2013?

[Dutch 874]

You guys are missing the point though. It's not about hitting the QB before he gets down or out of bounds. It's about having that unblocked defender hit him every time in the backfield, regardless of whether or not he hands off. Basically a free shot at him. To this point that defender has usually hesitated in trying to see where the ball is going. Now it sounds like they're being coached to smear the QB in the backfield regardless. Basically accept whatever yards the RB then picks up off the hand off in the interest of blasting the signal caller.

 

This. No one is saying they will stop the read option. They are saying that QB's will pay the price by attempting the read option because the objective of that unblocked defender is to knock the QBs head off every time; getting a hit on him. Basically they're saying use the read option if you want but we will hit your QB every single time.

[Thanatos 2,847]

I feel like flags will start coming if they go for the QB after the handoff. That's a late hit, no? Maybe not that late, but still if he gets the ball handed off in time... idk.

 

I feel like this is a bit of a dirty answer. Just literally try to hurt the QB so the team is afraid to use the option?

[KempBolt 498]

I feel like flags will start coming if they go for the QB after the handoff. That's a late hit, no? Maybe not that late, but still if he gets the ball handed off in time... idk.

 

I feel like this is a bit of a dirty answer. Just literally try to hurt the QB so the team is afraid to use the option?

 

How is that any different from hitting the QB with a pass rush to make him feel the pressure? I mean, if defenses don't do stuff like this we might as well make it 7 on 7. At which point I stop watching.

[KempBolt 498]

I understand that there is no guarantee that this approach will work against the read option, but some people act as though it's a proven offensive system that's definitely here to stay. We've basically only seen it in any prominence in the NFL for one season. It's not like it's established.

[DonovanMcnabb for H.O.F 2,241]

They only get away with constantly hitting the QB without getting flagged if the QB is carrying out the fake after he's pitched the ball. And even then, with how much the NFL protects QBs I'd be surprised if they were allowed to just go crazy. Unless if the QB getting KO'd is Mick Vick.

 

As long as the QB presents the threat to keep the ball it still at the least freezes up defensive players which still makes it effective. And as long as that's the case, it pretty much just turns into a traditional pass play in which the QB is protected when the ball leaves his hand.

 

I really don't think QBs who run the read option are in any worse shape (outside of the risk that are already present from running the RO) now then they were before if, instead of more emphasis on assignment football, they start relying on a method that most defensive players already know to do anyway.

Edited August 24, 2013 by DonovanMcnabb for H.O.F

[KempBolt 498]

They only get away with constantly hitting the QB without getting flagged if the QB is carrying out the fake after he's pitched the ball. And even then, with how much the NFL protects QBs I'd be surprised if they were allowed to just go crazy. Unless if the QB getting KO'd is Mick Vick.

 

As long as the QB presents the threat to keep the ball it still at the least freezes up defensive players which still makes it effective. And as long as that's the case, it pretty much just turns into a traditional pass play in which the QB is protected when the ball leaves his hand.

 

I really don't think QBs who run the read option are in any worse shape (outside of the risk that are already present from running the RO) now then they were before if, instead of more emphasis on assignment football, they start relying on a method that most defensive players already know to do anyway.

 

That. That's what the article is saying won't happen. The defender won't freeze-- he'll hit the QB as hard and fast as he can regardless of what he sees. Will that draw flags? Probably. Will defenses trade flags/fines for opportunities to nail the opposing QB, which will likely stop opposition from trying to run the read option? Probably.

[BwareDWare94 723]

Michael Vick was eventually neutralized. The same will soon be said for RG3, Kaep, etc.

[Vin+ 3,121]

From the article:

 

When a quarterback tucks the ball and runs upfield, he becomes a running back and therefore loses the generous protection afforded quarterbacks in terms of when and how they can be hit. It's an ominous loophole.

 

NFL rules stipulate hitting the quarterback after the ball leaves his hands is unnecessary roughness, as long as the quarterback is either standing still or moving backward. However, sometimes a read-option quarterback continues to carry out the fake as if he has the ball.

 

"The key is the posture of the quarterback," said Dean Blandino, the league's vice president of officiating. "You can't take a free shot at him. But what we're seeing in some instances is the quarterback hands off and then carries out the fake like he has the ball, and he's presenting a running posture.

 

"In that instance, he's trying to deceive the defense, trying to draw the defense to him, and he doesn't have special protection in that situation. He can be hit until enough time has passed where he's clearly out of the play."

 

Blandino said the competition committee made it clear this off-season that it wanted officials to re-emphasize the protection policies to teams. Officials visited all 32 teams and showed video of the plays in question, and officials have talked about it with players and coaches at training camps.

 

"There's really no change in how we've officiated it and what the rules are," Blandino said. "But it has been a point of emphasis."

 

[Dutch 874]

Michael Vick was eventually neutralized. The same will soon be said for RG3, Kaep, etc.

 

Michael Vick wasn't a threat at passing the ball.

[oochymp 2,393]

I feel like flags will start coming if they go for the QB after the handoff. That's a late hit, no? Maybe not that late, but still if he gets the ball handed off in time... idk.

 

I feel like this is a bit of a dirty answer. Just literally try to hurt the QB so the team is afraid to use the option?

it's been pretty well answered, but I'll go ahead and throw in my $.02, this really is no different from hitting a QB after he hands the ball off, and especially when you factor in that half of the scheme of the read-option is to pitch the ball at the last possible second, there's not going to be enough time between the pitch and the hit to justify throwing a flag in most cases

[the Lions fan 19]

Part of the success comes because it tests the boundaries of the NFLs favorable QB rules. More often than on standard pitches the defense questions if they can hit the QB and not get flagged for it, especially if the QB is gifted with pumps, fakes, etc. And why shouldn't they, they occasionally get called for it. Rules will need to be changed or 'more clearly defined' to make this article right.

 

I love testing boundaries when it comes to play calling. The rules overwhelmingly protect the QB position in the NFL so the more you can abuse that the better. Even if it is just to psuedoshield the RB from direction of pressure, which I feel is also an ignored element.

Edited August 25, 2013 by the Lions fan

[Attyla the Hawk 197]

Does anyone actually think that the NFL will concede free shots on QBs under these circumstances? These QBs are already becoming the face of the NFL. They are the succession plan to Brady/Manning when they retire.

 

There is no way on earth the NFL doesn't come down Gregg Williams' style on any team that does this.

[RazorStar 4,025]

The rule only protects the QB when he's a passer. So When they go read option or play action, it's a free shot. Unless it is plainly obvious he doesn't have the ball at the time.