Let's Talk Peyton Manning

[Favre4Ever+ 4,476]

TGP is going to put everything on Peyton, but that was a team-wide choking effort by Denver. Outplayed and outcoached, plain and simple. Seattle had pressure with their front four all night, and Denver's offense never really had an answer for that.

Everyone wants to give Peyton for being the coach when he plays well, he deserves the blame for being a dog shit "coach" when he gets outschemed and outplayed... MHG has said plenty of times that Peyton ALWAYS has a pass called until he gets to the line. Those mad adjustments, though!

 

Crosses, rubs, and screens not working? LETS KEEP CALLING CROSSES, RUBS, AND SCREENS.

 

Denver's Oline definitely sucked ass. They definitely gave up on the run way too early (down by 8-13, it was over). Peyton tries winning the game himself and throws a pick six which officially ended it.

 

Plus, Peyton was pressured at about a 22% rate throughout the season. Only raised to about 30% in the SB. Still too much, make no mistake... But the Seahawks just had the pressures at the right times and came up with the football. Even though, again, it was slightly higher than average... It wasn't so much how much pressure Peyton saw, but when he saw it.

 

He was rattled. No rhythm, no adjustments, no touch on the football, the inability to hit a pass further than 5 yards down field....

 

The defense gave up 13 points to the offense yielding 9 through the 1st half.

 

I totally agree that the Broncos offense as a whole was pretty awful, but the bulk of that load falls onto the shoulders of their "coach" and HoF QB. When you give Rex Grossman a run for worst SB performance by a QB in the modern era, you deserve all the flak you get.

 

One more time, to be clear... I am not absolving others of blame. But if you are ready to bask in the glory of all that comes with being an NFL QB... You are "arguably" the best QB of all time. Arguably the smartest QB ever. The best QB at the line of scrimmage of all time. And you play like THAT in the SB? You better be ready for a whole lot of hurt.

 

That defense of Denver's was ready to carry that offenses sorry ass across the finish line, and Peyton nor his teammates could muster a damn thing. What a shame.

 

And on the topic of being outcoached, this nugget was hilarious to me.

 

 

"That's the way the start of any Super Bowl is: It's going to be loud," Welker said, per TheMMQB.com. "The fans are going to be yelling. They don't really know why they're yelling -- it's just the start of the Super Bowl. We didn't prepare very well for that, and it showed."

 

It's interesting to note that in Wednesday's pool report from the Broncos' practice, USA Today's Jarrett Bell told us that John Fox -- who previously had been to Super Bowls with the Carolina Panthers as a coach and the New York Giants as a defensive coordinator -- turned down the simulated crowd noise during practice.

 

"Normally, it's about five times louder than that," Fox said at the time. "It's not an away game. The ones I've been to haven't been too loud. So we just kind of practice with what we think we're going to get."

(Ummm ... oops?

Edited February 4, 2014 by Favre4Ever

[Thanatos 2,847]

Nevermind misread Favre's post.

Edited February 4, 2014 by Thanatos19

[DonovanMcnabb for H.O.F 2,241]

I really don't think the Broncos could of stretched the field out vertically even if they wanted to... They've been a timing offense all year, and its the one thing that was getting disrupted.

 

Manning was getting pressured with four down linemen, outside receivers were struggling to beat the press, and you can actually make an argument for Manning's arm at this point being a noodle arm. He'd at the very least need time to step into his throws (which he wasn't getting) to hit receivers down the field (who couldn't get loose on the outside).

 

They were pretty much outplayed in every sense of the word...

[JetsFan4Life 542]

Wait? The Broncos defense was ready to carry the Broncos sorry offense? The same defense that let a relatively no name receiver break five tackles for a touchdown? Give me a break...

[Favre4Ever+ 4,476]

Wait? The Broncos defense was ready to carry the Broncos sorry offense? The same defense that let a relatively no name receiver break five tackles for a touchdown? Give me a break...

 

 

Ya, when the game was already over and they were no longer in it mentally? Give me a break, indeed. You can't ask a defense to go out there and just force stops every single time with no help whatsoever. That's insane.

 

Pro Tip: The Broncos defense could have given up 0 points and the Seahawks would still be world champions!

 

 

[blotsfan 2,112]

So, how long until Peyton is the sole reason that every team lost a playoff game this year?

[Favre4Ever+ 4,476]

So, how long until Peyton is the sole reason that every team lost a playoff game this year?

Peyton is usually making teams win games, so probably never. Unfortunately, it usually isn't his own.

 

[Vin+ 3,121]

The running game was gone away from because they were A.) down too much, and B.) it was, just like the rest of the offense, ineffective.

 

Drive 1: Safety, so obviously nothing.

 

Drive 2: A 3 yard gain on first down

 

Drive 3: A "fumble" on 2nd and 5 (I think his knee was down, but for whatever reason Fox decided the yards weren't worth it to challenge). Peyton then gets pressured on the next play and throws way behind an open Orange Julius and gets picked.

 

Drive 4: Moreno picks up 5 on 3rd and 1, and then 3 on 2nd and 5. Montee Ball follows up a little later with a rush of 0 on 2nd and 1, and 2 on 3rd and 1. KnoMo then has his best run of the day by picking up 9 on 2nd and 22. Peyton then gets pick-sixed after being hit (still think that's a fail on KnoMo for just standing there, but maybe it happened too fast.)

 

Drive 5: No runs, but the offense is moving, only to sputter deep in Seahawk territory. End of half, and effectively end of game.

 

In the second half you only had 6 rushes (-1, 1, 3, -4, 3, and 6), but typically down 28 you're not going to do much running.

[Favre4Ever+ 4,476]

Pretty sure you just backed up my point without even trying -- which I appreciate. Broncos best drive of the game outside of a garbage TD was one in which they ran the ball. They try throwing and Peyton Manning gives the game away.

[Vin+ 3,121]

Their best drive was the very next drive in which they did no running at all.

 

And if they would've run it on the 3rd and 13 and KnoMo fumbles or gains little to nothing, Peyton and Fox get bitched at for being too conservative. There's no winning. Literally, in this case.

Edited February 4, 2014 by Vin

[Favre4Ever+ 4,476]

Both drives ended in Peyton turning the ball over, but I guess he did do it slightly closer to the endzone than the previous drive. I guess that counts as better.... right?

[Vin+ 3,121]

Pretty much. In a game in which there were zero bright spots, you gotta take the least dark thing .

[Attyla the Hawk 197]

You guys do have a great defense, but if Tampa Bay can put up 21 in Seattle, Denver should be able to get more than 8 at a neutral site.

 

There is a huge difference between getting an 0-7 team at home in October, versus the super bowl.

 

Tampa did put up 21 in the first quarter. After getting punched in the face by a jacked up team, our defense flipped the switch and shut them out the remaining 3 quarters.

 

There was no doubt that Seattle wasn't up for that game. It was one of a series of really lousy teams we had to survive. No team gets up for every game they play. And truth be told, Tampa did it by testing our physicality and matching/exceeding it. They ran the ball down our throats. That's not something that ever seemed to cross Fox's mind.

 

As for the thoughts on the game, it was really emblematic of how this team plays. It's a very complete team that can win in a variety of ways. Lynch can rush for 30ish yards and we can still have a great chance at winning. The defense can fall asleep and our team can come back. Wilson can have one of the most prolific/game altering 18 completions for 205 yard games and handily outplay the elite QBs of our league (Brady and Manning both). Seattle is a team that has all year defied the stat sheet entirely.

 

I stated earlier that I expected Seattle to score 30+ points based on where Denver's defense was at. We pretty much hit that mark exactly, especially if we assumed one or both of those TD returns ends up not being TDs -- we almost assuredly would have gotten a 3 out of one of them.

 

I didn't think we'd nearly shut Denver out. But I fully expected Seattle to be the intimidator and the team setting the intensity pace. And in Super Bowls, that's typically the team that wins. It's the stock and trade of all the contenders in the NFC. Playing in the NFC West -- every team can bring the pain hard. Not unlike Seattle in SB XL, Denver just wasn't battle tested by a creampuff conference and non conference lineup. The 2005 Hawks rattled off 11 in a row against the weak sisters of the poor, then played an awful Redskins team and a banged up Panthers team tottering on the end of their playoff window. We weren't ready for the Steelers who ran the gauntlet of elite teams in the AFC that year. Playing NO and SF heading into SB48 really set us up well as far as maintaining intensity.

 

Denver's D was probably the softest we'd played in 2 months. Certainly their offense was. They just didn't make any attempt to balance their attack. We didn't even start our normal base defense because they were so one dimensional. Honestly, if Denver sticks to that same game plan next year, they are going to get flattened by Seattle or San Francisco or Carolina again. I have to think Niners fans must have been dreaming of what might have been if they'd been able to reach the SB and play Denver.

 

Lastly, I'm proud as hell of the twelves that made it there. It sounded like a home game. The players looked like they do at home -- totally jacked up by the crowd energy. It's especially gratifying compared to the virtual home game we played in Detroit against Pittsburgh.

 

I guess I feel like I can let SBXL go now.

[Thanatos 2,847]

Funnily enough, I fully expected the same result as the '05 championship game were Carolina to have gotten past San Fran, for the same reason as before. We only have one real weapon on offense and last time Seattle just triple-covered him. This time they wouldn't even have had to do that.

[ATL_Predator+ 1,196]

Some interesting stats from Peyton's SB performance. I am not putting the entire blame on him, but for a future HOF QB, I still believe these facts are noteworthy.

 

https://twitter.com/PFF/status/430410970419445760

 

https://twitter.com/PFF/status/430400731716517888

 

https://twitter.com/PFF/status/430318692312686592

 

https://twitter.com/PFF/status/430318225524785152

 

With Seattle's secondary, there is no need to blitz. Seattle got to Manning straight up with 4 down lineman because Seattle TOOK away his bread and butter.

 

The shorts, screens, rubs, etc.

 

Peyton was also unwilling to take shots on the Seattle D, even down by such a large amount early. I'm not sure, but if Seattle is taking away one thing, I believe you need to attack in another direction to at least make Seattle's D honest.

 

Many defenders were playing the short routes and disrupting passes and just wreaking havoc.

 

To me, the whole audible thing is something of interest as well. He started off calling audibles early, but as the game went on he stopped. I believe 2 weeks of preparation for Peyton was key in the filmroom, and ultimately Seattle has 3 All-Pro minds in that secondary. They are very smart, and they were bound to catch on to some of his audibles, let alone shut him down.

 

Once again. The entire Broncos team shat the bed. But I do believe Peyton could've gone about things a little differently, mainly by attempting to stretch the field...which he was unwilling to do. Might not of effected the outcome, but it would've made things interesting.

[Zack_of_Steel+ 3,014]

People are making excuses for Peyton based on the defense he played and the fact that he was under pressure. Great QBs don't completely fall apart under pressure, yet that's been his M.O. his entire career, next to playoff chokery.

 

Montana had to play some decent Bengals defenses and the powerhouse 1989 Broncos defense that put up 54 sacks in the regular season. He only turned that into a 55-10 annihilation, going 22-29, 75.9%, 297 yds, 5 TD, 10.24 YPA, 147.6 QBR.

 

As JD and others have said, Peyton's defense was getting stops to start the game, despite the awful turn of events.

 

The Broncos had the safety and a Peyton-orchestrated 3-and-out, but held the Seahawks to 6 points. Then Peyton threw an awful interception, giving the Hawks the ball at the 37. Even after all of that, Peyton had all of the time in the world to cut into only a 15 point deficit. Instead he threw up a duck rather than taking the sack and sealed the game with a pick-six.

 

I said multiple times prior to the game that if Peyton played well that I'd give him credit. He slurped on his own vag juice instead.

[seanbrock 1,684]

People are making excuses for Peyton based on the defense he played and the fact that he was under pressure. Great QBs don't completely fall apart under pressure, yet that's been his M.O. his entire career, next to playoff chokery.

 

Montana had to play some decent Bengals defenses and the powerhouse 1989 Broncos defense that put up 54 sacks in the regular season. He only turned that into a 55-10 annihilation, going 22-29, 75.9%, 297 yds, 5 TD, 10.24 YPA, 147.6 QBR.

 

As JD and others have said, Peyton's defense was getting stops to start the game, despite the awful turn of events.

 

The Broncos had the safety and a Peyton-orchestrated 3-and-out, but held the Seahawks to 6 points. Then Peyton threw an awful interception, giving the Hawks the ball at the 37. Even after all of that, Peyton had all of the time in the world to cut into only a 15 point deficit. Instead he threw up a duck rather than taking the sack and sealed the game with a pick-six.

 

I said multiple times prior to the game that if Peyton played well that I'd give him credit. He slurped on his own vag juice instead.

If you go back through the thread he's given credit credit at least myself for his performance against the Pats in the conference championship game. He had a great game. The Pats were devastated by injuries, but that's no excuse because they dismantled the Colts the week before.

 

The reason why Peyton gets shit for only having 1 ring is because if he played as well as he does in the regular season, he would be the greatest QB of all time with NO debate. You can say what you want but in the regular season the same teams that knock Peyton out are the ones he beats from September to December routinely.

 

As it stands, Peyton Manning is a first ballot hall of famer and ONE OF the all time greats. What Peyton has done has completely changed the game. He's done nothing short but to reinvent the position from the neck up. He's a special player, but that's why the expectations are so high. He just is not the same guy come playoff time.He just isn't and comparing him to Joe Montana is a joke

[BradyFan81 404]

I'm no super-fan of Manning, but in my opinion if Manning wins a superbowl here he's the greatest of all time, no question in my mind about it. Building one team up and going to and winning the super bowl is one thing, going to another team at the end of his career and building them up and winning the superbowl would be unheard of.

 

Anyone who thinks what Manning is doing here isn't impressive has clearly never watched this team helmed by Osweiler (The second half of week 17 for instance). We are shit without Manning. We have a lot of talented young players, but the only reason they know where to be or what to do is because coach Peyt puts them there.

 

Doesn't matter though, if he does win there will be excuses on how insignificant it is, and if he loses he'll be no further along than he was last year. Such is the plight of Peyton Manning.

 

tmhg what are you talking about? Peyton didnt build up Denver, they made it to the divisional round with fucking Tebow the year before Peyton got there. Denver is stacked with talent.

 

But to answer the question yeah a SB win would be huge for his legacy.

[BC 331]

I was torn between bumping or starting a new one, but I have been thinking about Peyton's legacy since I think this will be the last time we see him suit up. While I definetely don't mean that absurd comment about him being the #1 of all-time, I do think a Lombardi in his last game ever, even if a defensive win, gets this guy in that elite club of the most successful quarterbacks ever and undoes some of that "unsuccessful in the playoffs" reputation he got himself from running into Bill Belichick year after year.

 

I know a lot of people here hate the guy and want to see him fail and be laughed off as not one of those quarterbacks from all-time that you would select to build a team around and expect him to go and win it all. I'm picking the Panthers to win SB50, but I'm going to prepare myself now to go against the popular opinion that he gets too much love and credit and give it him should he pull this off. He obviously doesn't have quite the same legacy, but I almost see him in similar light to Derek Jeter. He's one of the classier and better sports leaders of all-time, and I'm gunna miss the guy. Definetely interested to see if others are in a similar boat.

[Thanatos 2,847]

I don't understand how you'd give Peyton credit for this game if his defense wins it for him. Makes no sense at all.

 

Now if Peyton picks Carolina apart and wins the game with his arm, not only will I have to pick my jaw up off the floor, I will give him major props and definitely reconsider some things I believe about him. I think its far more likely he chokes, or just plays a game manager role and the game is decided for good or ill by the matchup of Carolina's offense vs Denver's defense.

Edited February 2, 2016 by Thanatos19

[Vin+ 3,121]

I'm pretty sure this thread has had the longest legs of everything I've made.

[Zack_of_Steel+ 3,014]

I'm pretty sure this thread has had the longest legs of everything I've made.

Until you have a daughter (that will likely end up dating Sean somehow when she's 18).

[Vin+ 3,121]

[Thanatos 2,847]

Until you have a daughter (that will likely end up dating Sean somehow when she's 18).

 

"You sure got fine since I saw you from your baby pics that Vin posted."

Edited February 3, 2016 by Thanatos19

[oochymp 2,393]

I don't understand how you'd give Peyton credit for this game if his defense wins it for him. Makes no sense at all.

why do we ever give the QB credit for Super Bowl wins? how many times has a QB overcome a truly bad defense to win a Super Bowl? no Super Bowl loser has ever scored more than 31 points (1979 and 2013) and only 9 have scored more than 21, coincidentally the same number of teams have been held to single digits in the Super Bowl